Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[rodau]

I know. What I believe is that FM 2025 won't have big chances as people have said. Football Maneger 2025 gonna  be a FM2024 with cosmetic changes (as Premier League partnership) only. I was expecting a big leap specially on ME, but the lack of news is frustrating .

[NineCloudNine]

17 hours ago, Blünderbossu said:

My team is only a few points clear of relegation in December on a run of one win in ten while the XG stats are saying I should be top of the league (we are underachieving in both attacking and defensive xG by 8). The data hub says we're excellent in both attack and defence. Watching in comprehensive highlights, build-up and pressing looks fine, we've only been outplayed in one game. No pattern to the opposing goals except it's often 80% + of the shots on target that they have. The opposing team's goals are not individually high xG chances.  My dynamics are fine, morale is okay, the squad comparison suggests we we're among the top teams in attributes. My goalkeeper has good attributes for the level and was excellent last season. He isn't inconsistent. My forward players are regularly missing good chances.

Please god for next year's game tone down the impact of 'being on a run'. You can certainly argue it's realistic but when the player has minimal agency to make any difference to results it's not a very satisfying game.

Why do you believe this to be a function of the game coding rather than your tactics & game management, or just luck?

Edited June 23 by NineCloudNine

[Blünderbossu]

2 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

Why do you believe this to be a function of the game coding rather than your tactics & game management, or just luck?

For the following reasons:

• all the in-game indicators (data hub, league statistics) suggest that I should be winning enough of the matches to be top of the league rather than 15th and in relegation form.
• because watching the matches in comprehensive confirms that my opponents are making fewer chances and that these chances are of lower quality. Where there are sections of the match where the opponents are doing well, I make minor changes to roles and opposition instructions and my team returns to being the most active in creating chances. 
• because I have followed the approach of having a slightly more attacking and defensive version of the tactic. These have the impacts you would broadly expect, with the slightly more defensive version regularly resulting in very few highlights for the opponent even in comprehensive...except for the single shot from an opponent with a long shots attribute of 6 going in from 25 yards. The defensive tactic also continues to create chances on the break, indicating that it is unlikely to be 'too defensive'.
• because in the same save, a slightly less pronounced version of the same thing happened in a previous season for a run of 20 matches resulting in a relegation where the indicators said I should have been comfortably top-half.
• because in the same save, I've had a team promoted which was nowhere near good enough to get promoted go up with nearly 100 points with tons of pretty fortunate wins in a faintly ridiculous run of straight wins mid-season.

Now, clearly, the plural of anecdote is not data. Because I regularly play on comprehensive, I only have the one save of four and a bit seasons for this year to go off. I am in the feedback thread giving the feedback that it seems perhaps too extreme because out of those four seasons three of them have felt wacky due to extreme runs of form.

Edited June 23 by Blünderbossu

[KingCanary]

A little QoL change I noted that I liked- end of season meetings/preseason meetings no longer still feature players who are on loan or leaving before the new season and thus should have no opinion/input on plans and promises for the next season when they won't be with the team. Nice to see.

I've also had quite a challenging but fun experience seeing off a squad mutiny in my current save- I was bought in by Wolfsburg off the back of some success I had in France and clearly my rep wasn't enough to satisfy the players and it showed- it was noticeable my every decision was met with much more pushback than it would have been at my previous club and I had to stand tall, eventually selling two or three of the key rebels to restore order. It did leave me walking a tightrope though and knowing I had to be very careful about not upsetting anyone else in order to restore harmony. None of it felt OTT or unrealistic and it presented a nice challenge. 

[whatsupdoc]

Are "recovery" sessions still not working (same as FM23)? I.e. Rest is better?

Edited June 26 by whatsupdoc

[dℍaisa]

Yumm yumm let's check the email ...

[xOGxTerror]

Glad Sports Interactive and Miles released a development update for FM25. Really cool to see them do that.

 

The dumbing down of the UI though... Deary me... Looks like it was made only for consoles

[Steady1]

I've got a question when is the women going to be on the new football manager game as you can play as them of fc24 but on football manager there isn't

[metal_guitarist]

1 minute ago, Steady1 said:

I've got a question when is the women going to be on the new football manager game as you can play as them of fc24 but on football manager there isn't

women's football will be in FM25, further details to be released over the next few months.

[Steady1]

1 minute ago, metal_guitarist said:

women's football will be in FM25, further details to be released over the next few months.

ok thanks when will the new one be out

[metal_guitarist]

6 minutes ago, Steady1 said:

ok thanks when will the new one be out

Release gets announced later this year but it's more often than not some time in November if previous years are anything to go by.

[Steady1]

13 minutes ago, metal_guitarist said:

Release gets announced later this year but it's more often than not some time in November if previous years are anything to go by.

thanks

[DavutOzkan]

Of course, you'll have to actually use the new UI to see for yourself, but on first look, I am not too impressed with the Portal screenshot at least. Looks really basic. I honestly don't even know what I am looking at in tiles screenshots. Is it supposed to be a player page? 

Edited June 27 by DavutOzkan

[Mitza]

Who in the world approved that Portal screen? I hope to God that is a mobile / console screenshot because I can't even begin to express how bad it is.

The only valid reason I can think of is that they want to dumb it out for new players - if your aim is to bring more players, why brag about the record numbers in the exact same post? Dumbing the entire interface down means a couple of things - an insult to the player's intelligence, a lack of usability testing, and a terrible precendent for the game's UX. I doubt that they removed any other features than those menitoned so in that case, all of the actions you could take from a single screen (your home) in previous FMs have been moved behind god knows how many layers and layers of clicks. 

I am a UX designer myself so I can be a bit biased, but from experience, no designers in their right mind would ruin a perfectly working and successful product by running a complete overhaul of its interface that millions of people already have familiarity with. Not sure what the direction is here or what problem this is meant to solve. FM is a very complex game and can be difficult to learn in time, and it can be improved and even simplified, but this isn't working for me.

It genuinely looks like it could be AI generated.

[Jonthedon26]

15 hours ago, Mitza said:

Who in the world approved that Portal screen? I hope to God that is a mobile / console screenshot because I can't even begin to express how bad it is.

The only valid reason I can think of is that they want to dumb it out for new players - if your aim is to bring more players, why brag about the record numbers in the exact same post? Dumbing the entire interface down means a couple of things - an insult to the player's intelligence, a lack of usability testing, and a terrible precendent for the game's UX. I doubt that they removed any other features than those menitoned so in that case, all of the actions you could take from a single screen (your home) in previous FMs have been moved behind god knows how many layers and layers of clicks. 

I am a UX designer myself so I can be a bit biased, but from experience, no designers in their right mind would ruin a perfectly working and successful product by running a complete overhaul of its interface that millions of people already have familiarity with. Not sure what the direction is here or what problem this is meant to solve. FM is a very complex game and can be difficult to learn in time, and it can be improved and even simplified, but this isn't working for me.

It genuinely looks like it could be AI generated.

I agree, and I hope this isn't the direction the game is going in and we are just reading too much into it. I have started playing OOTP Baseball in recent years, and that is a complicated game, but I know I have to put the hours in to learn and understand it, I don't expect them to dumb it down for me. 

[marionk]

looks like a cheap mobile game UI to me 

[Aoyao]

1 hour ago, marionk said:

looks like a cheap mobile game UI to me 

Unity is a multi-platform engine.

[Chooxen]

6 hours ago, Aoyao said:

Unity is a multi-platform engine.

In which case, they have made a mistake.

The PC version is a more involving game and this is what its players are looking for. We need to see information displayed in a concise and customisable way that minimises clicking and scrolling. Presenting information in big boxes rather than spreadsheets is one of the most frustrating changes I could imagine making for a game like this. What is useful for developers - having one match engine across platforms - is not useful for players. Potentially a huge misstep here, especially if it can't be customised or modded around.

[-Jef-]

2 hours ago, Chooxen said:

In which case, they have made a mistake.

The PC version is a more involving game and this is what its players are looking for. We need to see information displayed in a concise and customisable way that minimises clicking and scrolling. Presenting information in big boxes rather than spreadsheets is one of the most frustrating changes I could imagine making for a game like this. What is useful for developers - having one match engine across platforms - is not useful for players. Potentially a huge misstep here, especially if it can't be customised or modded around.

And you have seen all the in-game screenshots from all of the views and how it plays out? Can you provide more info since you're so sure about it (considering you have 0 clue what you're talking about since you haven't even read the whole article as evidenced by your last sentence)

[Chooxen]

5 hours ago, -Jef- said:

And you have seen all the in-game screenshots from all of the views and how it plays out? Can you provide more info since you're so sure about it (considering you have 0 clue what you're talking about since you haven't even read the whole article as evidenced by your last sentence)

Come off it, you've seen the screenshots. Big boxes of info rather than spreadsheets, a layout that is suited to a mobile/touchscreen rather than a point-and-click high-res screen. The writing's on the wall, what more evidence do you need? Stop simping for game devs that bite their thumb at you.

[andu1]

My last 4 games, AI 4 shots on target 2 goals, 2 shots 2 goals, 1 shot 2 goals, 3 shots 3 goals.

Yeah right.

 

[dannyo666]

On 23/06/2024 at 02:33, rodau said:

I know. What I believe is that FM 2025 won't have big chances as people have said. Football Maneger 2025 gonna  be a FM2024 with cosmetic changes (as Premier League partnership) only. I was expecting a big leap specially on ME, but the lack of news is frustrating .

Yet we will all buy fm 25 on release day and expect all the farcical fm24 mistakes(they are not bugs) to be fixed and come back on here and complain myself included,rinse and repeat....fm26,fm27,fm28 etc........The fact that fm24 has been left the way it is is mind-blowing,-Basic things still do not work correctly-It truly is a joke,it really says a lot about where the game is heading....Any other franchise would be mortified and embarrassed to have its players of its game left so disappointed with a game where "bugs" were always reported and only some acted upon it seems and its players being so let down as the game gets worse.....Anyone expecting 25 be the the saviour of the last few years i think may need to look at this year alone....Its hard not to get exited about all this new shiny stuff but 25 is going to have to be the greatest FM of all time to regain my trust...If not sure if others feel the same and i speak for myself

[andu1]

Any instructions that i can make my goalkeeper move his arms, like you know, try to save a shot on target?

 

[-Jef-]

18 hours ago, Chooxen said:

Come off it, you've seen the screenshots. Big boxes of info rather than spreadsheets, a layout that is suited to a mobile/touchscreen rather than a point-and-click high-res screen. The writing's on the wall, what more evidence do you need? Stop simping for game devs that bite their thumb at you.

Because it's looking similar to ben's statman skin. And they've only shown how ONE 'widget' can be seen on multiple ways. And you've commented "if it can be modified" which they clearly said it can. Resize, drag, move etc Modular!

 

And on top of that, I like the way it looks like. Has potential to be much better than the outdated FM look.

[bigmattb28]

Went back to FM24 recently, noticed that FC Osaka still play their home games a C-Oaaka's stadium and the FC Osaka reserves play at the first team stadium. You'd have thought this being a newly licenced league they would have made sure the teams are playing at the correct stadiums, how many updates has there been now? Can't wait for the licenced Premier League when we get 25 to see Arsenal playing at Stamford Bridge while the reserves play at a fully packed Emirates stadium every week 

[whatsupdoc]

On 26/06/2024 at 22:45, whatsupdoc said:

Are "recovery" sessions still not working (same as FM23)? I.e. Rest is better?

Looked into this - still has the same issues as FM23 (i.e. recovery sessions are counter-productive)

[Kevinho7]

On 07/07/2024 at 06:36, whatsupdoc said:

Looked into this - still has the same issues as FM23 (i.e. recovery sessions are counter-productive)

How so if I may ask sincerely? If this is true i missed the memo apparently 😅

[whatsupdoc]

 

9 hours ago, Kevinho7 said:

How so if I may ask sincerely? If this is true i missed the memo apparently 😅

There's some YouTube videos on it and Reddit posts showing how they tested it. 

Essentially for fatigue, overall condition and (from memory) injuries you're better off using "rest" than "recovery". Recovery will maintain match sharpness a bit more than rest though. 

There's better examples than these below but these are what I have saved in my phone:

Edited July 9 by whatsupdoc

[Purple Bane]

You know when you ask your assman/dof/gardener to suggest a contract and its always complete gibberish that the agent responds with anger to? And when you give your assman/dof/plumber some transfer responsibilities and they constantly try and buy players your scouts, presumably their colleagues, think would be the worst signing of all time? For as long as these features have been in the game, in an identical state from day one?

Whats that about?

[Cloud9]

Will there be any attempt to bring better balance to the game between nations on FM25 under the Unity Engine? With the Euros and Copa America in full swing, I did a little looking...

For example at current CA the current World Cup winners Argentina only have three players in their squad over 160CA. Spain have four. England...who have been absolutely shocking at the Euros have fifteen 

Surely a little realism would be a welcome change going forward?

Edited July 10 by Cloud9

[Cloud9]

This is a longstanding issue but attributes on newgen staff can be a bit wacky.

To reference:

.

Edited July 11 by Cloud9

[Kevinho7]

On 09/07/2024 at 09:05, whatsupdoc said:

 

There's some YouTube videos on it and Reddit posts showing how they tested it. 

Essentially for fatigue, overall condition and (from memory) injuries you're better off using "rest" than "recovery". Recovery will maintain match sharpness a bit more than rest though. 

There's better examples than these below but these are what I have saved in my phone:

Thankyou for the answer 🙏🏻

[kepov]

Hi, Post-match analysis does not arrive in your inbox during the holiday. If you rewind it manually click continue, it comes.

But I specifically checked in FM 21, 23 - the post-match analysis comes inbox during the holiday. Is this normal for FM 24 or a bug?

[Delicate Dave]

As we come to the end of FM24 I have say I'm very dispaointed in my experiances with this version. Having played other versions, over the past 5 years, I've always enjoyed those even if I wasn't always as successful as I wanted to be. But this one, although I've been as successful, won most things, taken lower league teams to the prem, won the world cup etc etc but the times I've almost just stopped playing out of pure frestration has been many and often. Tonight I packed up to wait for FM25 as I can't take any more.

Perhaps it's just the way I am, being dylexic in a way that things that don't seem to follow logic affect me like polan affects hayfever sufferers. So the pains of being a FM24 Football Manager are many. The nonsense when players revolt, the pointless contract problems. Perhaps that really is how football is today But!  - I mean why would any goalkeeper only sign for a club as a backup option. refusing to sign as first choice keeper? it's pure madness.

I do hope FM25 had cleaned all this up and is it too much to hope that your season, playing for the game is not spoilt by the repetative themes if a team scores in the first 8 mins they conceeed 2 by half time. And the annoying habit of team going 2 or even 3 goals down and then coming back to square the game only to conceed in the 85 min. What I'm saying is the results are just predictable, well not the result but the way they happen. When goals are scored, how goals are scored etc. I guess the is only so many ways these can be coded.

Anyway I'm disapointed.

[whatsupdoc]

7 hours ago, Delicate Dave said:

As we come to the end of FM24 I have say I'm very dispaointed in my experiances with this version. Having played other versions, over the past 5 years, I've always enjoyed those even if I wasn't always as successful as I wanted to be. But this one, although I've been as successful, won most things, taken lower league teams to the prem, won the world cup etc etc but the times I've almost just stopped playing out of pure frestration has been many and often. Tonight I packed up to wait for FM25 as I can't take any more.

Perhaps it's just the way I am, being dylexic in a way that things that don't seem to follow logic affect me like polan affects hayfever sufferers. So the pains of being a FM24 Football Manager are many. The nonsense when players revolt, the pointless contract problems. Perhaps that really is how football is today But!  - I mean why would any goalkeeper only sign for a club as a backup option. refusing to sign as first choice keeper? it's pure madness.

I do hope FM25 had cleaned all this up and is it too much to hope that your season, playing for the game is not spoilt by the repetative themes if a team scores in the first 8 mins they conceeed 2 by half time. And the annoying habit of team going 2 or even 3 goals down and then coming back to square the game only to conceed in the 85 min. What I'm saying is the results are just predictable, well not the result but the way they happen. When goals are scored, how goals are scored etc. I guess the is only so many ways these can be coded.

Anyway I'm disapointed.

I've found this FM far more presciptive than other any other FM. There are certain things that just work a lot better than others, and some very standard football things which are very hard to make work. Iv'e felt that I'm "playing the Match Engine" rather than using football thinking.

[Delicate Dave]

5 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

I've found this FM far more presciptive than other any other FM. There are certain things that just work a lot better than others, and some very standard football things which are very hard to make work. Iv'e felt that I'm "playing the Match Engine" rather than using football thinking.

One thing I've missed is using Wide Centre Backs on Support. Seems FM24 just killed the idea of CB supporting the wing backs which is sad. Perhaps its because they wouldn't work with the new inverted movements but I don't like using these inverted options. But as I say in general it's player revolts that have done me.

[wazzaflow10]

On 15/07/2024 at 23:22, whatsupdoc said:

I've found this FM far more presciptive than other any other FM. There are certain things that just work a lot better than others, and some very standard football things which are very hard to make work. Iv'e felt that I'm "playing the Match Engine" rather than using football thinking.

insert always have been meme here (joke if not obvious)

I can see your point though. However, the game should allow you to fail at tactics. Not every combination of player/roles/duties/mentality/formation should be successful. So in a sense yes you're playing what optimizes your chances of winning within the ME given a certain set of parameters. But I don't think there's only one route to winning. 

SI have to thread the needle of giving you the impression you can make your own tactic while keeping it constrained enough to allow the AI to actually make effective tactics. I played more of this year than any of the past 2 iterations combined fwiw. I enjoyed seeing players actually respond to others in space and not just crowd each other out. 

Of course, there's always the ability to overload the game. If that is the goal then yes I can see how the game plays "prescriptively". But its also a choice to play that way if you know you are doing it. I remember in 2010 I accidentally stumbled upon the OP corner kick and rode that to multiple titles and didn't discover it was a "bug" until much later. I just happened to put together a very good corner kick taker (basically a left footed David Beckham new gen who went by the name of Chris Spooner) and a tall CB who won everything in the air. Probably the best thing to do is again tell the ME devs in the bug forum when I do xyz I can win a game with a tier 10 team against Man City every time. The more people who "break" the game like that and show/tell SI the more they can put constraints in place to prevent it or have the AI counter it. They can't check every possible scenario and release the game on time. So if we can bear some of that burden it will only make the game better.

[whatsupdoc]

13 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

insert always have been meme here (joke if not obvious)

For sure  
I mainly play online so I think I get a good overview of what metas work and what struggles. 

This game double DMs, focussing out wide and low crosses are way out of balance. 

[El Payaso]

On 16/07/2024 at 06:22, whatsupdoc said:

I've found this FM far more presciptive than other any other FM. There are certain things that just work a lot better than others, and some very standard football things which are very hard to make work. Iv'e felt that I'm "playing the Match Engine" rather than using football thinking.

And why do things have to work a lot better for you to be able to play the game? At least for me it is easier to keep interested in the save game when you get a realistic simulation of real world instead of just winning and overachieving. 

I have only played with mid or low-block on FM 2024 and what it gives me is something quite close to the results that you would expect. Like with Torino finishing seventh in season one with one of the best defensive records in the league. And that is exactly what should be expected with a defensive low-block system. If I would have played with some kind of meta tactic in season one and won the league, then there wouldn't be any reason to continue the save any more for me. 

Of course FM is the type of game where these "three AFs up top and win" things shouldn't exist but for me the game is way better when you choose a realistic system and try to have a career instead of breaking the game and have a totally unrealistic success story. 

[wazzaflow10]

8 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

For sure  
I mainly play online so I think I get a good overview of what metas work and what struggles. 

This game double DMs, focussing out wide and low crosses are way out of balance. 

Sure that's every online experience. SI isn't going to do monthly balancing updates like you would for MMOs.

The ME should be the #1 priority without a doubt in every cycle. I like all the bells and whistles they've added in the periphery but what keeps me playing is watching the engine transform my inputs into something that resembles football. There will always be flaws and metas. Pressing should be the dominant strategy. That's how most top teams win. What I hear from these forums though is that it should be more difficult to do with teams who do not fit the profile of being able to press.

I do think some of that exists if we go back to some of the "tests" that say physicals are over powered. A lot of times we'll see them paired with high pressing/running/intensity tactics. Then we'll see teams that don't have good physicals struggle with the same high intensity tactic. Has anyone tried forcing a poor technical team to play a slower, more methodical and technical tactic? What are the results for that tactic with a team that excels in those attributes?

 

Edited July 18 by wazzaflow10

[whatsupdoc]

12 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

What I hear from these forums though is that it should be more difficult to do with teams who do not fit the profile of being able to press

This is the big one across the board isn't it. Just wanting player suitability to have a bigger impact.

[El Payaso]

10 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

This is the big one across the board isn't it. Just wanting player suitability to have a bigger impact.

Agree 100% on this. And also different kind of style of plays having their their clear advantages and disadvantages. For example top heavy and hard pressing systems causing more injuries and fatigue which could see a team collapse at some point of season and even mid-match.

Gegenpress style is of course what we talk the most and the problem with this style is that the benefits are way bigger than the disadvantages. Also activating a couple of simple team instructions seem to lead into a scenario where totally mindless systems like this:

Work unrealistically well. 

This kind of tactic should be a suicide as there are 7 players really aggressively going forward and just three players instructed to defend (no matter what the wing-back roles are). This should lead into tens of quick breaks for the opposition sides in every game and in a huge amount of goals conceded. 

Someone might say that if you present an unrealistic tactical system to the game, it's going to create unrealistic outcomes too but in my opininion FM should be able to adjust to most of these scenarios. And when something like this works well, it is quite obvious that winning the ball back and countering isn't anywhere near as effective as it should be. 

Would be interesting to get an insight from the SI team explaining why these kind of systems work in the game. @Seb Wassell perhaps? 

My own personal main gripe in the match engine have been set pieces in general. They simply play out badly and this is especially evident when you find some really effective system like short delivery from corners. The defending sides are simply not able to deal with them. 

For me it is quite bad when a good clearance that actually clears the danger has become a rarity. Even from a free chance to clear the ball, the defenders usually make weak headers straight at the edge of the penalty area where the pressure continues. 

Second thing that hasn't been mentioned that often and that is not related to the match engine are international selections. In a mid-table club it still seems impossible to get your players to the national teams of bigger countries, no matter how well they do. This has been an issue for about ten years already. I remember dominating Spanish football with Athletic Bilbao in the past and having players like Markel Susaeta being one of the best players in any standard and he never got a Spanish call-up even though he did in real life with much weaker statistics. This was in FM 2014 or 15 and the same still continues. 

Edited July 19 by El Payaso

[wazzaflow10]

13 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

This is the big one across the board isn't it. Just wanting player suitability to have a bigger impact.

Sure and it might actually have the appropriate impact. The issue may be that the AI managers aren't given the tools to completely obliterate your tactics if you're over aggressively pushing forward. Not that all of them should but if you're Luton town and pushing high against City, I'd expect AI Pep to adjust something to exploit the space if they're somehow not in control of the game.

Again SI have to thread this needle of how much do we allow the AI to counter the human? Too much and its not fun because you'll never be able to keep up. Too little and the game becomes easy once you find a tactic that generally dominates. It's a tricky question for sure because everyone has different experience levels in this game. Should only the best players be able to win a top 5 league title? Should all new players be forced to play in lower leagues and actually prove they're good enough to move up? Is there some sort of element to the ME that can be dynamic to change how the game is played so that you can't just plug in a tactic that worked in someone elses game?

[El Payaso]

On 18/07/2024 at 17:00, wazzaflow10 said:

The ME should be the #1 priority without a doubt in every cycle.

 

Even though it is one of thd important areas, I wouldn't say priority number one. 

Number one is in my opinion those areas that make it possible to play long-term careers. 

1. Creating tactics and training should both have enough challenge and in-depth features to keep them worth tinkering. 

2. Well-balanced newgens.

3. The AI skill level to provide challenge. 

And so on. I would find some of these areas more important than the match engine as the match day is only one part of the gameplay.

[CAE82]

On 18/07/2024 at 15:00, wazzaflow10 said:

The ME should be the #1 priority without a doubt in every cycle. I like all the bells and whistles they've added in the periphery but what keeps me playing is watching the engine transform my inputs into something that resembles football. There will always be flaws and metas. Pressing should be the dominant strategy. That's how most top teams win. What I hear from these forums though is that it should be more difficult to do with teams who do not fit the profile of being able to press.

For a long time I’ve thought the ME should be configurable. It’s likely too complex for it to be fully configurable, but you can imagine a series of variables that can be tuned by members of the community and exported as a config file to be shared. The game would be shipped with the default settings and maybe a condition that bugs can only be reported for the default settings.

People could then try different things and I’m sure someone would find a set of parameters that pleased people more than the default.

A bit like ChatGPT/Co-Pilot were you can tweak the temperate of the LLM to get more creative answers.

It may also open the possibility of users going back to previous versions of the ME that they enjoyed (maybe even from previous versions of the game).

[wazzaflow10]

4 hours ago, El Payaso said:

Even though it is one of thd important areas, I wouldn't say priority number one. 

Number one is in my opinion those areas that make it possible to play long-term careers. 

1. Creating tactics and training should both have enough challenge and in-depth features to keep them worth tinkering. 

2. Well-balanced newgens.

3. The AI skill level to provide challenge. 

And so on. I would find some of these areas more important than the match engine as the match day is only one part of the gameplay.

1. I would incorporate #1 as part of the match engine at least the tactics part. I usually just let the assman do team training and I'll do individual to select the growth or role I want. I'm not really sure what more they can do with training. Are people really going to sit there and watch a training session? I could see a "view my tactic" session being helpful but that should be an on demand thing for newcomers to understand how roles interact.

2. I've never really had an issue with newgens but I tend to do larger game world saves.

3. I assume you mean in recruitment/team building. I think the solution to that is simply give the human inaccurate information about player attributes.

Maybe you're right. I'm doubtful of the popularity of a game where the match engine truly sucked and something like training was the best part of the game. I think it'd be very frustrating to assemble what I thought was a good team only to be constantly undone by some weird engine (yes yes I know being FM'd is a thing).

 

[wazzaflow10]

2 hours ago, CAE82 said:

For a long time I’ve thought the ME should be configurable. It’s likely too complex for it to be fully configurable, but you can imagine a series of variables that can be tuned by members of the community and exported as a config file to be shared. The game would be shipped with the default settings and maybe a condition that bugs can only be reported for the default settings.

People could then try different things and I’m sure someone would find a set of parameters that pleased people more than the default.

A bit like ChatGPT/Co-Pilot were you can tweak the temperate of the LLM to get more creative answers.

It may also open the possibility of users going back to previous versions of the ME that they enjoyed (maybe even from previous versions of the game).

I think it would be very interesting if the engine could dynamically evolve based on how teams in the game are being successful or just a natural variation. I doubt we'd see that anytime soon b/c of how variable the engine can be even now but its definitely something that would make long term games interesting and certainly make tactic creation non stop.

[whatsupdoc]

18 hours ago, El Payaso said:

Agree 100% on this. And also different kind of style of plays having their their clear advantages and disadvantages. For example top heavy and hard pressing systems causing more injuries and fatigue which could see a team collapse at some point of season and even mid-match.

Gegenpress style is of course what we talk the most and the problem with this style is that the benefits are way bigger than the disadvantages. Also activating a couple of simple team instructions seem to lead into a scenario where totally mindless systems like this:

Work unrealistically well. 

This kind of tactic should be a suicide as there are 7 players really aggressively going forward and just three players instructed to defend (no matter what the wing-back roles are). This should lead into tens of quick breaks for the opposition sides in every game and in a huge amount of goals conceded. 

Someone might say that if you present an unrealistic tactical system to the game, it's going to create unrealistic outcomes too but in my opininion FM should be able to adjust to most of these scenarios. And when something like this works well, it is quite obvious that winning the ball back and countering isn't anywhere near as effective as it should be. 

Would be interesting to get an insight from the SI team explaining why these kind of systems work in the game. @Seb Wassell perhaps? 

My own personal main gripe in the match engine have been set pieces in general. They simply play out badly and this is especially evident when you find some really effective system like short delivery from corners. The defending sides are simply not able to deal with them. 

For me it is quite bad when a good clearance that actually clears the danger has become a rarity. Even from a free chance to clear the ball, the defenders usually make weak headers straight at the edge of the penalty area where the pressure continues. 

Second thing that hasn't been mentioned that often and that is not related to the match engine are international selections. In a mid-table club it still seems impossible to get your players to the national teams of bigger countries, no matter how well they do. This has been an issue for about ten years already. I remember dominating Spanish football with Athletic Bilbao in the past and having players like Markel Susaeta being one of the best players in any standard and he never got a Spanish call-up even though he did in real life with much weaker statistics. This was in FM 2014 or 15 and the same still continues. 

I'm using this:

 

Mainly because the PF(s) role replictes what I'd want an IF(a) to do from the wing far more accurately than the IF role itself. The IFs simply aren't relevant enough. They don't make enough diagonal runs in behind on attack duty, they don't press or track back like the PF(s) does... they basically feel like they're not involved enough.

As for the double DMs - they're working too well in terms of getting chances by arriving into the box, and there's not enough consequence for leaving the defensive midfield space open. I'd love to use a single Anchor but haven't been able to get performence anything close to a DM that moves forward.

RE wing-backs. I think attacking FBs and WBs feel OP in this version mainly because of the sheer volume of crosses they can put in each game. To make our online game playable we've had to ban "focus out wide" TIs. 

The AF is a role I'd prefer not to use, however the vast majority of goals in this FM come from the centre (ST/CAM/VOL). It'd be nice to use a creative striker role, but they'll mostly provide assists for other central attacking players. So it doesn't make sense to use attacking IFs and a creative central player. It can work, but it's working against the engine not with it.

It's stuff like this that make this version very "play the engine" rather than think about football.

Also - yeah. Systems with 3 out and out strikers are annoying and should lose a lot lot lot more often rather than dominate.

Edited July 20 by whatsupdoc

[El Payaso]

8 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

1. I would incorporate #1 as part of the match engine at least the tactics part. I usually just let the assman do team training and I'll do individual to select the growth or role I want. I'm not really sure what more they can do with training. Are people really going to sit there and watch a training session? I could see a "view my tactic" session being helpful but that should be an on demand thing for newcomers to understand how roles interact.

2. I've never really had an issue with newgens but I tend to do larger game world saves.

3. I assume you mean in recruitment/team building. I think the solution to that is simply give the human inaccurate information about player attributes.

Maybe you're right. I'm doubtful of the popularity of a game where the match engine truly sucked and something like training was the best part of the game. I think it'd be very frustrating to assemble what I thought was a good team only to be constantly undone by some weird engine (yes yes I know being FM'd is a thing).

 

The first part is not related to the ME. What I meant was that training and building a style of play need more in-depth features to make those areas of the game more interesting, demanding and time consuming.

Leaving training to the assistant manager, which I don't blame you for, tells you that setting up training isn't interesting enough at its current state and that is something that needs to change. 

I know that many people find tactics a challenging part of the game but for me setting up a fully working style of play in a less than a minute is too simplified and that area of the game needs something that demands more from us players.

I have for example setup a non-meta mid-block style of play in just 17 seconds and I never had to change anything in it to overachieve and play really nice football. 

With the current tactics there are also limitations that don't exist in real life. For example if you are seeing the opposition centre-backs being able to play the ball too much to their deep-lying playmaker. In real life you would instruct the fitting players to block those passing lanes but on FM you don't have that option. You have some pressing trap instructions, yes, but I'd say they don't work too well. 

Newgens in my opinion are now better balanced than the physical attributes monsters that we saw about ten years ago but there are still some illogical selection of attributes and in general I would still claim that the better Newgens are too good in terms of physical attributes.

The third one cannot be fixed with inaccurate data. For me for example squad building should be turned much more to instead of people saying how they bought this or that player into something that they were trying to sign this player but failed either due to the owning team holding on to him or other AI team poaching him. 

The AI also needs to be more competitive in other areas like player development and during matches. 

[El Payaso]

4 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

I'm using this:

 

Mainly because the PF(s) role replictes what I'd want an IF(a) to do from the wing far more accurately than the IF role itself. The IFs simply aren't relevant enough. They don't make enough diagonal runs in behind on attack duty, they don't press or track back like the PF(s) does... they basically feel like they're not involved enough.

As for the double DMs - they're working too well in terms of getting chances by arriving into the box, and there's not enough consequence for leaving the defensive midfield space open. I'd love to use a single Anchor but haven't been able to get performence anything close to a DM that moves forward.

RE wing-backs. I think attacking FBs and WBs feel OP in this version mainly because of the sheer volume of crosses they can put in each game. To make our online game playable we've had to ban "focus out wide" TIs. 

The AF is a role I'd prefer not to use, however the vast majority of goals in this FM come from the centre (ST/CAM/VOL). It'd be nice to use a creative striker role, but they'll mostly provide assists for other central attacking players. So it doesn't make sense to use attacking IFs and a creative central player. It can work, but it's working against the engine not with it.

It's stuff like this that make this version very "play the engine" rather than think about football.

Also - yeah. Systems with 3 out and out strikers are annoying and should lose a lot lot lot more often rather than dominate.

I also play with a 3-man defense formation but I approach the game differently than with an approach that brings me the best possible results.

So for example with Torino, who are predicted to finish mid-table, I am happy if my tactic brings me that and also fulfils some of the key metrics that I want to achieve, like for example conceding less than a goal per game. 

I agree that there are clear roles and combinations that work too well. I have for example complained a lot about amount of crosses and wing-back roles (as well as overpowered dribbling) in the past. I spend the latter parts of my own footballing career as a full-back or defensive midfielder and it was quite easy to say that those areas didn't work realistically in the ME. 

I would also claim that there aren't really any ways to tell certain players playing in a certain role to move differently. These are of course all things that should change in the future and they would also bring some interesting extra aspects to the tactical side of the game. 

You can if course play the engine and play FM like that but I would still claim that it is also possible to play the game in a realistic way. I have for example only played either mid or low-block with realistic formations and selection of roles while managing Birmingham (03/04 retro DB), Chelsea, Betis, Palermo and now Torino. I have only won Copa del Rey once with those clubs but that should be expected when none of the clubs should be challenging for titles in the beginning. And I'm 100% fine with that. 

And when it comes to creative central players, I have had great luck with David Dunn and Cole Palmer for example. Now looking to replicate this also with Stefano Sensi and and even though it takes a bit of tinkering still, his stats are showing that we could get there. 

I think in general people should change the point of view from "I need to get the maximum results with this team" to look for a realistic gameplay and actual careers because that would also lead to scenarios where people actually create realistic style of plays and accept that the success might come at some point instead of now.