Generating non-fluent speakers of a national language

[rijclt]

My country has a national language A and several regional languages B, C, D. Most people are native speakers of the national language, but some are native speakers of a regional language and have a limited command of the national language.

In a specific region of the country, approximately 70% of the people are native speakers of A and 30% are native speakers of B.

My goal is to recreate this language distribution so majority of newgens would speak A fluently and the remaining would speak B fluently (and maybe some A).

I tried setting the nation's language to 100% A and region's language to 70% A and 30% B. That didn't work; everyone speaks A fluently, which means nobody speaks fluent B AND zero, basic or good A.

I reduced nation's language to 50% A, no luck. Then removed A from region's language setting. Same result.

Is there a way to make it work?

[Fredrik]

12 hours ago, rijclt said:

Is there a way to make it work?

I have tried similar things countless times. You can make it fairly good but the game can't handle multiple languages well in general. I also feel that a local/native speaker etc may not see the results as someone who isn't. 

Start by setting language to any city if it's monolingual. Then set percentages for the region (the part except the aforementioned cities) so that the total percentage is 100%. 

The big issue here is what to do with the national language. I would suggest English(or French) could work depending on which country you're actually thinking about. If it's an African country I think it can work due to name pool being national in character. If the country you're discussing is India I'm unsure what setting English to national language does with player names. 

Another note is that it can't hurt to make sure that your nation's players have their city of birth set. It won't mess up names and in the best case it may even help with assigning names to the correct regions. This should be particularly important if some names are distinctly regional. 

None of this is foolproof but IMO you should start around here. 

[rijclt]

hace 2 horas, Fredrik dijo:

Start by setting language to any city if it's monolingual. Then set percentages for the region (the part except the aforementioned cities) so that the total percentage is 100%.

Yes, setting a language to a city does force all newgens born in that city to be native speakers of that language.

It doesn't really help though in the case where speakers of the regional language B are interspersed throughout the region - no cities in the region have a predominant population of B speakers.

hace 2 horas, Fredrik dijo:

player names

Good point, but for the sake of this discussion let's just say the names are similar across the country and not language dependent.

[Fredrik]

1 hour ago, rijclt said:

Yes, setting a language to a city does force all newgens born in that city to be native speakers of that language.

It doesn't really help though in the case where speakers of the regional language B are interspersed throughout the region - no cities in the region have a predominant population of B speakers.

Good point, but for the sake of this discussion let's just say the names are similar across the country and not language dependent.

The weak point in the game logic is unfortunately bilingualism. I've tried to set bilingual cities but it never really works. I've resorted to creating new cities at times so that for example Montreal would exist as two cities in the database. One French-speaking and the other English-speaking.

. It depends if the clubs are language dependent(which at least at times is clearly the case).  

On the other side my own projects haven't been conclusive whether languages really influence eg transfers. 

[rijclt]

En 25/3/2024 a las 19:24, Fredrik dijo:

I've resorted to creating new cities at times so that for example Montreal would exist as two cities in the database. One French-speaking and the other English-speaking.

For now, I think this is the best workaround. 

Does the distribution of newgens depends on the population of cities? Given two Montreals with the same coordinates and same population, would there be ~50% French and ~50% English speaking newgens?

If that's the case, it would be possible to tweak the size of the cities to better approximate the real-life distribution.

 

[Wolf_pd]

9 hours ago, rijclt said:

For now, I think this is the best workaround. 

Does the distribution of newgens depends on the population of cities? Given two Montreals with the same coordinates and same population, would there be ~50% French and ~50% English speaking newgens?

If that's the case, it would be possible to tweak the size of the cities to better approximate the real-life distribution.

I don't know if city size has an impact, but I never tested with it in a scenario with multiple languages, so doesn't hurt to test that out.

[themodelcitizen]

Double cities is just annoying because you won't necessarily get news items about teams winning a local derby, journalist questions about players scoring a goal in front of their family because they're a hometown lad, etc.

Doesn't the US do it somehow with Spanish? Is that set under the nation with just a lower number? Won't allow for the regionalization you're talking about mind you.

FWIW I think 95% of teenagers in Montreal these days will speak both almost fluently (especially if they're playing footy and travelling around for it)

[rijclt]

En 28/3/2024 a las 3:30, Wolf_pd dijo:

I don't know if city size has an impact, but I never tested with it in a scenario with multiple languages, so doesn't hurt to test that out.

I must be missing something, the game is not generating newgens from any of the new (duplicate) cities I created, unless I specifically set a club to one of the new cities. 

Example: if I set Montreal to English-speaking and create a duplicate French-speaking Montreal, all newgens in Montreal-based clubs would only be from Montreal (English).

[rijclt]

En 2/4/2024 a las 21:55, rijclt dijo:

I must be missing something, the game is not generating newgens from any of the new (duplicate) cities I created, unless I specifically set a club to one of the new cities. 

Example: if I set Montreal to English-speaking and create a duplicate French-speaking Montreal, all newgens in Montreal-based clubs would only be from Montreal (English).

Seems like this is a known issue. 

This post mentioned that "Created cities without clubs do not generate players"