[FM24] Going off on a tangent with Rangers, after just getting relegated, with -£2.8M (not), in the bank and loans of £485M being repaid at £1.8M per month. Should be easy right?

[Jimbokav1971]

Jun 2066. 

Transfers. We may have spent £60M bringing players in, but we also sold players to the value of £182M, (with more to leave). 

£12.25m in loan fees last season is pretty decent. 

 

Finances. The other reason for paying off the loans is that because we have £300+ million in the bank, we're assumed to be rich. Pay of the debts and then just go with what's left and the rich tag will be far lighter. 

Maybe the problem with any potential takeover now is that nobody can afford to buy us because we have so much money in the bank. 

 

[Jimbokav1971]

Jul 2066. 

Transfers.

Some of these player player valuations seem strange. 

Friendlies, (arranged as a result of a transfer clause). £4.25M just from friendlies. 

Finances. Our bank balance is £350M + £29M in guaranteed transfer fees due = £379m. 

The loans outstanding are currently at £191M plus there is £113M outstanding in interest if the loans run to term. 

It would make sense to pay everything off now and we would still have £188M in the bank, (because we wouldn't pay the rest of the interest), but even if we did pay the interest then we would still have a surplus cash pot of £75M. There is absolutely no reason not to do this right now. 

 

 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 Year on. Jun 2067. 

Rangers won the league, and did so comfortably, with a 6 point margin despite only taking 1 point from their final 2 games. 

They failed to get out of the Group Stage of the Champions League. 

They lost in the Final of the Scottish Cup, (beating Celtic on the way). 

They lost in the Semi-Final of the League Cup. 

Transfers. I had spent £14.5M on 2 players before I left, so they spent the other £157.5M. 

Matthew Horner is a left-footed right back. He wouldn't have got in the starting line-up when I left, (on either side). He's not rubbish though and a broken leg stopped him appearing more. He's getting paid £82k pw which is ridiculous. I had a few getting paid more than £20k pw, but not loads. They were they players I often moved on. 

Cédric Munoz looks decent, but we had at least 2 lefty wide players who were better than him. He's getting paid £160k pw, (which boggles the mind). The whole thing is just going to repeat itself isn't it? 

Thomas Byrne is a good player, but he wouldn't have got into our strongest line-up before I left. Paying him £170k pw, (or £8.8M per season), just doesn't make sense because even if you do sell him for a profit, that's almost £9M that you have to immediately take off of any prodite. I had better players than him playing for £30k pw. He started the most games of any outfield player, (46), so the manager obviously loves him, and he created the most assists too, (13), so I'm not saying he's rubbish at all. I'm just saying that he's not worth that money. Not the transfer fee particularly, but specifically the wage. 

Whelan (ENG) (Spirit) 5'10" was signed on a free to be a backup wide attacker, maybe go out on loan for a season and then to be sold on. He was the clubs top goal-scorer with 18 in all competitons. 

Raz (ISR) (Resil) 6'4" was the top performer at the club with 12 goals, 12 assists and an average rating of 7.42 from 45 starts in all competitions. He had a really good season playing as an AMR, and this is 1 area where the new AI manager would have done better than I did, because he didn't fit my system at all and I was squeezing him into the 2nd Team MRC slot simply because he had 5.0 PA and I thought he would do ok there and we would get good money for him. He would never have got 24 goal involvements with me. 

Finances. Rangers now have £218M in the bank, (down from £350M when I left), they still have a transfer budget over £100M at £129.5M and their wage budget is an enormous £2.5M pw and are spending £1.8M pw, (when I was spending approx 800K pw, before the players went out on loan). Obviously the debt hasn't been repaid. 

 

Summary. They won the league, (and I didn't do that in my last season), so first of all credit where it's due. That being said, I strengthened the squad ENORMOUSLY before I left, and I think we would have romped the league had I stayed. I would have been looking for an unbeaten season. They were however awful in the Champions League, not even getting out of the Group, where as with a rubbish squad I managed to drag them to the Semi's. They also lost in the Cup Final, (that I won last season). Still, winning the league is the big one and there's no getting away from that. 

In terms of transfers they have actually done quite well. The 3 big players they signed are certainly decent, and 2 of them had good seasons, but the money they're paying them is just astronomical. I don't know if it's sustainable, but I suspect not, (at least not without me wheeler-dealing in the background). 

The players they sold were sold too cheaply imo, and when they had considerable time left on their contracts. There just was no reason to sell, (other than player unhappiness), and I think the AI pays far too much attention to that.

I sent loads of players out on loan last season before I left, and it will be interesting to see what the AI manager does with them in his 2nd season in charge, (when they are at the club). 

[Jimbokav1971]

2 years on. Jun 2068. 

Rangers won the league by an impressive 14 points, but more surprisingly Celtic only finished 3rd as a resurgent Tullibody improved on recent seasons. 

They were awful in the Champions League though. 

They made it a double with an extra-time Scottish Cup win. 

And a treble with the League Cup. 

However harsh my criticism of their transfer dealings, (and I haven't even looked yet), there is no getting away that a treble is a big deal and that shouldn't be ignored no matter how much they are spending. The only real negative so far is their dismal performances in Europe. 

Transfers. Before we give them too much credit for bringing in £174M worth of transfer income, it should be remembered that I signed all these players. 

The only player I can see on the Transfers Out list who wasn't signed by me is Carlos Henrique, and they actually made a loss of £3.5M on him. 

Dylan Garrana looks like a decent signing from what I can see. Not paid too much for him, he's valued at more than he was bought for and he's on decent wages. He also had a decent season with a 6.91 rating in the league. 

Jamie Mainland looks like an excellent signing. Worth more than they paid for him, capped as a teenager, "wonderkid", not on a huge wage, scored 10+ league goals in 1st season. I really like this signing. Not gonna lie. 

Michele Gallo appears to be a rubbish signing on the face of it, although his low average rating might be skewed by him largely being used as a sub. £73k pw for a rubbish sub though? 

Miguel Ángel Asín is a bit of an unknown because we can't see how bad, (or good), his physicals are. I suspect they;re not great though. 

McGuinness (IRL)(L.Heart) 5'10 has a nickname because he was a player I was interested in at some point. I might have liked him, but I didn't like him to the tune of a £36M transfer fee and £110K pw! He's still a good player though. 

Caio is a bit of an unknown quantity and I will look at players after I have set the Holiday manager in charge of Rangers again in the future. Price isn't huge, wage isn't huge, he's still quite young and he had a decent season with an avh rating of 6.98 but only made 3(3) starts. If he doesn't play next season then what's the point? 

Board. As I go to install Holiday Manager in charge of Rangers I see that they are no longer classed as Rich, (just secure now), and they are also in the process of a board takeover. It will be interesting to see if they can still afford to repay the loans. 

Finances. There is only £140M in the bank now, (down £78M from last season and down £210M from when I left). The transfer budget has dropped from £100M+ to £50M and the wage budget is now £2.5M, with them spending £2M pw of that budget. It's a recipe for disaster. 

From no debt when I left, (and a really hefty surplus), the net debt grew to £83M in the 1st year after I left and has now increased to £115M. This should be much higher were it not for the high number of players that I had purchased cheaply and then sent out on loan, and which the AI manager then sold in the 2nd season. 

 

[l4nd3r]

Man... The AI is dumb as bricks lol, why didn't it trigger the debt repayment...

[leobiazzi]

The Rangers and Tullibody save shows how bad the AI is lol. They threw all your hard work in the bin in just 2 seasons. Please send this to SI haha

[Jimbokav1971]

3 years on. Jun 2069. 

I will have a clearer view of players now because I will install Holiday Manager in charge of Rangers before completing this update. 

While in the process of appointing Holiday Manager, the warning signs are already there. 

The Finances are now "okay" and the only culture the board care about is developing Youth. (The fans however seem to have other ideas). 

Rangers. only finished 3rd in the league, a massive 20 points behind Celtic and even 17 points short of Tullibody. 

UEFA Champions League. They at least managed to get to the Knockout Playoff Round, but scoring goals seems to be a problem. 

Scottish Cup. They crashed out early. 

League Cup. 'They lost to Celtic in extra-time in the Final

Board. The club was floated on the Stock Exchange and a new board was appointed. 

Transfers. I like that they are still bringing in cash from player sales (players who I signed), but there is a point where the players I signed will all be gone and there will be nobody to sell. 

Ognjen Filipović is a player I tried to sign before. I think they've got him at a decent price and I think this is a good signing, (even if his physicals are a little limited). 

Emmanuel Adam looks decent and any DM that gets a rating of 7.04 across a whole season without taking set-pieces or something must be doing something right, because hell will freeze over before a Dm gets good match ratings usually. 

Benedictus Maquet appears to be a good signing at a decent price, but the wages, (again), are ridiculous. 

Sergio Liñares is a very strange signing. He's not very good, the transfer fee is a fair amount, and there is no way on Earth he's worth £30k pw. I think I had 4 DL's/WBL's at the club who were better than him when I left, (and 2 were HGN and 1 was HGC). This bloke offers absolutely nothing.

Manager History.

The Manager who won the treble and then the league the following season has been sacked by the new board, (after coming well short in the league this season), and he was replaced by Grant Granger who will again be manager when I go on holiday again. 

Finances. The bank balance is actually up £15M from last season, (but obviously down hugely from when I left). They're still offering a transfer budget of £50M and a wage budget of £2.5M pw, (with £2.2M being spent).

The net debt is initially a little confusing. There was £115M in net debt last season, but there is none at all now. There is also a new loan for £124M which was taken out in Jun 2068, (last year), and seems to approx. £40M less than was outstanding on the 2 loans at this time last season. They have restructured the debt and it's repayable by 2078 now, (where as most of the previous debt was repayable by 2081). The interest portion remaining was £98M and is now only £15.5M, so this suggests that the deal they got on the finance was HUGELY better than the one they were forced onto with the CVA when they went into administration previously. This is a really good move. 

 

[Jimbokav1971]

2 hours ago, l4nd3r said:

Man... The AI is dumb as bricks lol, why didn't it trigger the debt repayment...

You know they don't even have to pay it all back. Just 1 of the loans. 

I mentioned earlier in the thread, (quite early), that each loan had a very different interest rate and the CVA loan, (the big one), had a huge interest rate, where as the consolidation loan, (the small one), had a much more reasonable interest rate. 

You will be pleased to see in my last post that the new board have consolidated the debt, (2 loans into 1 with a new much better interest rate), and I don't actually mind this. I can't be bothered to work out what the approx APR for these loans are, (although I did when I looked at the finances at the start of the save), so it might be worth doing as a comparison.

£124M was the amount of this new loan and it's repayable over 10 years or 120 months. 

The total interest payable over the course of the loan is £15.5M. Actually no, (and I can't begin to tell you how much this has confused me). The total amount on interest over the course of the loan was actually £20M, and the reason it's showing as £15.5M now is because we've already been paying the loan for almost 12 months. When the loan is at it's biggest, so the interest amount is larger. 

£124,000,000 over 10 years where the interest payable is £20,0000 means that the interest rate is 3.046%, 

I did some very rough calculations that I am digging up from page 2 in this thread and will go through them now. 

CVA. £150M repayable by 360 monthly payments, (30 years) of £525,000. Interest rate is 1.601% APR is 19.212%.

Stadium Loan. £218M repayable by 200 monthly payments, (25 years) of £1.3M. Interest rate is 5.2%. APR is 62.4%!!!!! 

Consolidation Loan. £2.2M repayable by 120 monthly payments, (10 years), of £19,750. Interest rate is 1.496. APR is 17.952%. 

New 2068 loan. £124M repayable over 120 monthly repayments, (10 years), of £1.2M. Interest rate is 3.046. APR is 36.552 %

I've included these screenshots because I think the pie chart especially helps to show how much interest, (green) is being paid, and shows just quite how bad a deal the club got for the stadium loan. 

Without referring back I assumed that it was the CVA that was the bad rate, (because that's what you would expect). but no, it was the Stadium loan. I would love to know how the game calculates what rate your loan is going to be at? 

[Jimbokav1971]

3 hours ago, leobiazzi said:

The Rangers and Tullibody save shows how bad the AI is lol. They threw all your hard work in the bin in just 2 seasons. Please send this to SI haha

I don't think it's consistently bad, (although it's not quite at my levels. 

I think a lot of the decision are driven by characteristics and where as you might think that the Rangers manager after me did a good job, (he won the treble in his 1st season and then the league in the 2nd season), I would argue that he did so completely off the back of my work before I left, and he actually performed poorly. 

Interestingly, the recent signings, (in the main), seem far better, and he's also got some good value out of the sales he made. 

I can understand how it's tough for the board to set small budgets when you have so much cash sitting around, and especially if they are budgeting based on forecasts which in turn are based on when I was at the club, (but we know that forecasting doesn't work properly in the game anyway).

The new board have come in with the strategy of Youth Development, and they've negotiated a new deal for the outstanding debt at a much better rate, (and this is closer what would happen in real life), but at the same time they've kept a big transfer budget, (actually £50m isn't big at all), but a whopping great big wage budget of £2.5M per week. There doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between the ethos at the club, (Youth Development), and lowering the available wage budget to recruit new players. I think that more needs to be done with regards to a manager generating his own cash to spend on transfers. I appreciate that it's already there within the game in that the % of transfer revenue you can spend is variable dependent on circumstances, but I think that should be a bigger deal. The AI board should be aware that there are high value assets at the club and I would like to see some actionable objectives relating to the sale of players. The problem with that is that in real life it's rarely manager controlled and in the game it's not always manager controlled. 

I just don;t think that everything knits together well enough. 

Tullibody for example seem to have had a resurgence in this save and from really starting to struggle when I was still managing Rangers, (and almost missing out in Europe), they have really turned things around and as well as finishing Runners Up in the League this season, have made the last 2 Cup Finals, (winning 1). I might just have a delve into what they were doing after I've done 10 yearly Rangers updates.

Actually, just having a brief glance at Tullibody now, I think their recent improvement has been built largely on continuity and not doing much of anything in the transfer market. Let's be honest, with the players they're producing they don't have to do much. 

In fact I would go so far as to say that certainly in the season just gone, whoever is in charge of Tullibody has done brilliantly at both Transfers in and Out. Even the previous seasons when they weren't quite at that level, they certainly weren't bad.

I think it's too easy sometimes to say that the AI is bad. I really don't think that's the case in the same way it used be years ago where basically an AI manager was incapable of building a squad. Now they're not only capable of building a squad, but there is also some depth to their thinking in terms of squad re-building and looking to sell players on and when to sell them on. (That certainly seems to be the case at Tullibody under the current manager). 

We have to go back to the bloke who took over from me, (when I left for Rangers), and it's possible that the way I wa managing the club was just too much for him to cope with, (being serious here). Think about it. I was literally hoarding EVERYONE we produced who was any good at all, because I couldn't risk losing them. When you're a new manager who can sign players, that's a rubbish idea. He was right to sell some/many of them. I just think he was too focussed on winning things in the here and now and he in particular wasn't interested in planning for the future. That doesn't make him a bad manager. At least not unless it also makes Mourinho or Ancelotti bad managers. It's very very very rare that you get a manager like Fergie who can keep developing a new successful team on from an old successful team. It's probably the hardest thing in football. I can't think of many other managers who have done it. 

[Edit]

Rather than the AI being "bad", (as it used to be), I think there is a problem between AI Managers and AI clubs/board marrying themselves up to like-minded partners and then setting budgets/restrictions that sort of back-up and even enforce this. 

Take the recent Rangers appointment in the game, and this is taken from a recent post above....

I don't know what sort of Culture they wanted to promote at the club when they appointed Zander McGarry after me, but the suggestion is that it was "Develop players using the clubs Youth Academy", and it was certainly the case when they appointed the next manager Grant Granger. That's all well and good, and maybe he even really suited that style, (I don't know yet), but let's say we give him the benefit of the doubt and say that it really does suit him, then even ignoring everything else, (and a £50M transfer budget is not enormous for a club with £150M cash in the bank) why on earth would they give him a wage budget of £2.5M pw when the current wage spend is already £2M pw? Surely the obvious way to join the dots here and connect the players to the manager to the club and to the board, is to reduce the wage budget and tell him that the wage budget is staying at £2M this season but will be £1.9M next season and will be reduced at £0.1M every season for further notice. Isn't that what you woudl do if you were a Chairman of a club in those circumstances? 

We want you to play the Youth so the only way to do that is to create a pathway for them to the 1st Team. 
You do that by selling the ageing higher paid players at the cost of short-term performances, with the gain of long-term development.

That link between Board Culture, Managerial strategy and Finances seems completely absent and it's what is at the core of these problems. 

Edited July 25 by Jimbokav1971

[BillHoudini24]

Brilliant idea of a save and a perfect case study on AI behaviour on Football Manager. I hope the devs took notice!

Anyone who has played long-term saves has seen how the AI ruins your club after you move on to another, but you documented everything in great detail.

Congrats on the idea and your success with Rangers, both on and off the field.

[Jimbokav1971]

36 minutes ago, BillHoudini24 said:

Brilliant idea of a save and a perfect case study on AI behaviour on Football Manager. I hope the devs took notice!

Anyone who has played long-term saves has seen how the AI ruins your club after you move on to another, but you documented everything in great detail.

Congrats on the idea and your success with Rangers, both on and off the field.

Thanks very much. 

I think it's too simplistic to say that the AI ruins the club after you move on, (even though they did), because isn't that what happened at Man Utd post Fergie? 

Rebuilding a successful side is the hardest thing in football and it's why so few manage to do it. 

Transitioning from a fully Youth Only setup to one where the new Manager has free rein over transfers and a healthy transfer budget and young PA based players who other clubs will pay a fortune for, while also having a big available wage budget takes us from 1 extreme to the other. Put the wrong manager in there and it's absolutely carnage. 

In the case of this Rangers part of the save, the manager who replaced me won a treble in his 1st season and retained the league title in season 2. Should this guy be seen as a success because of his accomplishments, or a failure because he was unable to transition beyond that team and was sacked for finishing way off the pitch in season 3? 

The recent resurgence of Tullibody in this save has been really impressive and from my brief investigation it would seem that their success, (limited though it may be), is based on simply on playing a Youth Development save properly. Giving players time to develop and not bringing players in on top of them and not selling them too soon for too small a fee.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. There are good and there are bad. There are AI Managers that suit replacing someone like me, and there are AI Managers that don't suit replacing someone like me. Even a good AI Manager of the wrong type would be a disaster taking over from ne. 

I expect that SI look in at saves in this section of the forum, (and the Youth Challenge thread in particular), because it offers them a wealth of information from saves that usually aren't within the most commonly played, or the easiest to replicate. These long, detailed saves really do pressure the game in many different areas that are rarely touched on by your average saves. I know that I was working at SI this is a resource that I would be keen to see tapped. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Just lost a whole long post trying to mention @l4nd3r because I couldn't work out what his name was. Does it start with a 1 or an i or an I or something else?  In the end I copy and pasted his name and then clicked on it as I posted and it took me away from my post and to his profile!  

Ah well. I will have another go tomorrow. 

Edited July 25 by Jimbokav1971

[Jimbokav1971]

4 years on. Jun 2070.

Board Culture and Finances. The Board are still only interested in "Developing players using the Clubs Youth System" and the Finances are classed as "Okay". The fans however have been spoilt and are more demanding. 

Rangers only managed to finish 4th in the league this season, and they were a whopping 25 points behind Champions Celtic. The big thing that jumped out at me here though isn't the gulf between the Old Firm clubs, but the fact that there are only 5 European spots in Scotland this season. When I left there were 6 because the top team in the bottom half of the split also qualified for Europe. I know these things are cyclical in that as you gain another place, you also enter at a tougher level and against tougher opposition so it's harder to gain points, but we made it to the Semi-Finals of the Champions League in my last season and that season is still being counted in the coefficient. God knows what will happen when that drops off. 

UEFA Champions League. Finishing 3rd in the league last season came at a cost and that was meeting Porto in the Playoff. They lost that so dropped into the Europa League and then lost in the Playoff Knockout. 

Scottish Cup. They crashed out early on. 

League Cup. They lost on pens in the Semi, but only after the had won on pens in the Quarters and won in extra-time in the 2nd Round. 

Board.

Transfers. On the face of it this seems like pretty good business. They have brought in £118M more than they spent. While in previous seasons this has been done completely off the back of players that I brought to the club, this is a little different. Only Beech & Solly of the sold players, were signed by me. 

Micael Feio might be a player I like, but this isn't a signing I like. They had to pay good money to sign him, (although it's still possible to make a profit), but because of his age they also had to pay him good wages. I think there were at least 3 lefty attackers at the club who were better than him when I left. All much younger and going to improve. They weren't valued at £39M-£43M because they weren't being paid anywhere near £90k pw. Still this isn't an awful signing. 

Seok Min-Sung initially appears to be a decent signing on the face of it. A nominal fee for a decent player who I would personally have loved to sign. He's a reasonable age and is already worth more than they paid for him. the real bonus comes when you look at who is interested in him and why. The Middle East clubs will pay through the nose for him, (and his marketing impact in Rangers will have been significant), but while the German bid should be ignored, it;s interesting to see Liverpool to unable to make a bid for what is in reality a very modest player. 

Dominic George looks a decent player and although I think they paid too much for him, there is still the potential for a tidy profit if they flip him in the next 12 months or so, (which is exactly what I would do). Having said that, his strengths are his mentals so he could be one of those players who's performances don't drop off a cliff as their physical abilities wane. 

I haven't been looking at player sales until now, (because they were all players that I signed), but the big sale this season was all of their own making so let's have a look. 

Jamie Mainland was a decent signing back then and I remember commenting that at the time because although they paid good money for him, his wages weren't huge and he had hit double figure goals, (16 actually), in his 1st season while still a teenager. He scored 19 more in his 2nd season, (but 6 of these were pens), and I would say that's a little low. Having said that I see him as a support-striker rather than a clinical finisher, but he only managed 3 assists in 2 seasons so it's clear he was being played as a finisher. He's been an average signing in terms of on-pitch performances, but he's been a phenomenal signing because of the income he's generated. He's already generated £55M profit and they've even been smart enough to add some decent clauses which mean that there is another £28M due after just 9 more league appearances. 

Manager History. Current Manager Grant Granger has lost too many matches for my liking, (and he's lucky he's still in a job), but he might just have been clearing up the mess left by McGarry and it will be interesting to see what he does this season. His problem seems to be scoring goals, but I definitely think he has the tools to get the job done. 

Preferred formation. Granger likes a 4231 wide, (nothing wrong with that), but when I click on the striker he's actually a really good TM, (or a TM style player at least). I love Lamb as a player, (and not just because they signed him on a free), but could be isolated a little in this formation. The wingers are decent, but Asin is pretty average and Lamb won't be getting the help he needs because Asin isn't physical enough and both the wide players like to stay wide. I personally would just play a 3 up top with Lamb, 1 winger and then a sort of utility attacker on the other side who will tuck in and won't stay wide. They've actually got a few really good options and they should be scoring way more goals. I would say the way that Granger is lining them up is the problem. 

Something I've noticed about AI managers is that if they have a player who is a natural in only 1 position, they will be enormously reluctant to play him in a different position or even re-train him to play in a different position, (if other options are available). They only do it when they have no option. Compare that to me and I would happily throw a player into the starting line-up with absolutely no experience in a position if that's where I wanted him to play. I think that Rangers should get rid of Granger and recruit a manager who likes to play 2/3 up top, or failing that, someone who like to play with 3 at the back, (and let the WB's provide the width). 

Finances. Considering that the club made £118M transfer profit this season, it's strange to see the balance drop from £145M last season to £113M this season, (a drop of £32M). The loss can only be attributed to wages. 

 

Wages. This is a screen I rarely look at. Don't get me wrong, I keep a REALLY tight control on wages. I just don't particularly look at this screen to do so. 

The bit that jumped out at me from this screen is this bit. 

Advised? Advised by whom?  The suggestion is that this comes from the board, and this is where I have been going in my replies to @BillHoudini24 @leobiazzi and @l4nd3r (and I still don't know what that 1st character in his name is!!!)  

The Manager, (whoever it is), is being instructed that these are the max levels for players in each category, and I know the key word here is max rather than average, but that's still ridiculous!

I think the wages being paid are remarkably low when you consider what the board are offering, and the overall wage spend still might be high because there are players here that were signed by me and the AI manager hasn't managed to offload them yet and doesn't really know what to do with them, (but let's look at that now). 

This is the 1st Team squad and it's the screen I look at for wages. The game date is Jun 2070, so as well as the 2 players out of contract, (wtf!)  there are 2 more players who's contract expire 12 months from now, and 1 of th  has a +1 to trigger. 

All 4 Important players should be sold, plus the top 2 Regular Starters. Their ages are 26, 27, 28 & 32, (and 30 & 28), and they are getting paid £900,000 pw between them and that would get rid of everyone at the club earning £100,000 pw or more. £900,000 pw is actually £46.8M per season. They all paid a lot of games and they all performed reasonably well, but it's just not working as a 4th placed finish testifies. Get rid of them and recruit younger players. Save the £46M on wages and add it to the £120M-£130M you would get from the player sales and invest in proper youngsters. Damn there are some really quite good younger players at the club who can't get a look-in, because these big players are hogging all the game-time and a huge portion of the wage bill. Get rid of those 6 players and as well as being £170M+ better off after 1 season, the development in the players who take their places would be enormous, (generating it's own additional income as they were then sold). 

You know, (I'm not going to but.....), I'm tempted to sell those 6 players right now and without signing anyone else see where we could finish in the league next season just to prove a point. 

You know what....... 

[BillHoudini24]

12 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Thanks very much. 

I think it's too simplistic to say that the AI ruins the club after you move on, (even though they did), because isn't that what happened at Man Utd post Fergie? 

Rebuilding a successful side is the hardest thing in football and it's why so few manage to do it. 

Transitioning from a fully Youth Only setup to one where the new Manager has free rein over transfers and a healthy transfer budget and young PA based players who other clubs will pay a fortune for, while also having a big available wage budget takes us from 1 extreme to the other. Put the wrong manager in there and it's absolutely carnage.

You are absolutely right that my initial response lacked a lot of nuance, I just didn't want to hijack your thread with a long response.

Sometimes, especially if you have stacked their squad with 2-3 generations of players being there or coming in, chances are that they will do good/ok on the field.

My main complaints are about the overall management of the club. Financially first of all, but also in recruiting managers, players and subsequently not even implementing their own philosophy.

In my journeyman save, I left a Greek team after 2 very successful seasons with a  4-3-3 wide system, players to fit this formation, and a few youth players ready to make the next step into the first team. Then, the board decided to appoint a defensive-minded manager who only plays 3-5-2 (double DMs), who ignored most of the squad he inherited, bought below-average players, and relegated the team. Since then, this team has appointed similar managers, sold all the good assets of the club and now they're worse even compared to when they appointed me.

This is just an example, but I've seen it everywhere after playing most FM versions from 2006 onwards. It's one of the main reasons I try not to look back on my ex-teams on journeyman saves.

Edited July 26 by BillHoudini24

[Jimbokav1971]

25 minutes ago, BillHoudini24 said:

My main complaints are about the overall management of the club. Financially first all, but also in recruiting managers, players and subsequently not even implementing their own philosophy.

I think this is the crux of the problem, (although I'm not ignoring the rest of your post). 

In this current situation, Rangers have a good, (if not amazing), Academy, and they recognise that they want to make use of it so the 1 and only Board Culture to be implemented is to develop players via the club's Academy. 

They sign the manager up to that, (and I can tell you there are some decent players here to be developed), but then they allow him to sign experienced expensive players, and give him a huge wage budget to ensure that they are so highly paid that they don't want to move elsewhere. At the very least let him bring in these players but then limit the wage available so that when a bigger club comes calling, off they go, in comes the money from the transfer and off we go again with either a youth product or the next player signed. That all works really well UNLESS they give the manager loads of wage budget to spend. It just doesn't align with everything else. There is what they want to do, and what they want the manager to do, and what the manager wants to do and...... but let's give you loads of wage budget just in case.  

We would probably all be the same. "You mean I can spend all this money on wages?" "All of it?" "Are you sure?"   

[Thebaker]

Good work on documenting how the AI does things. I would also add that the AI  concentrates on CA both when making transfers in and when picking the squad, it seems to ignore (or not take into account) players with higher PA who if played could improve. It also undervalues players when selling them for the same reason.

Human players and indeed RL managers would simply not work like this.

[Jimbokav1971]

Ok. I'm in. Let's put my money where my mouth is and get this done. 

These are the expensive players that I want to get rid of. 

Ok, so I might have bitten off a bit more than I can chew here, but what the hell. 3 of the 6 players I'm getting rid of were midfielders, (how did they all even play in the same side?)   That's obviously left a gap but I;m going to try and just play with the squad that's left so that's no signings..... oh, unless there are some that have already been agreed. Let me go and check. 

If you had asked me what positions I wanted to see arriving, then I would have said WBR, MC and maybe even a GK. 

I didn't want to see a winger, (although better a righty than a lefty), and fingers crossed Hernandez is a midfielder rather than a centre-half. 

Pounder (ENG) (Res) is actually just what I was looking for, (love him), and he's joining on a free which is even better. Not sure if he will be 1st or 2nd choice, but he will definitely be playing. 

Hernández (MEX) 5'10" on the other hand is an absolute disaster. He's 5'10" which isn't great, but jumping of just 4 absolutely kills him. He could play Libero, but I still don't like his jumping in there either. The 2nd choice MRC is currently an AMC who I don't like. It could be that this bloke plays in midfield ahead of him. After all, I don't really want my midfielders to do much. That jumping attributs is such a shame.  Still, he's better than nothing and I don't have to play him at centre-half id I don't want. 

Before I saw the 2 imminent arrivals, this was the squad I had created from what we had. 

None of the 6 big wage earners are included, (obviously), and I think I promoted 8 players from the B Team/U21's. 

5 of them didn't play a single game last season. 
8 of them have never played for the 1st Team before. 
3 of them are teenagers.
Nobody is older than 28.
Nobody is earning more than £87,000 pw. 
There are only 2 players in the squad with better than 3.0 CA, (but it will be interesting to see what the CA/PA looks like after the big earners leave..... assuming they leave). 

I plan on rotating as I usually do, but I'm really not going to bother about much else so should be able to speed through pretty quickly. 

I have quite a few players playing out of position. (Most of the wingers for example won't have played striker before), we have an AMC playing MC and a DC playing MC and our full backs are not used to playing WB. None of that will bother me much. They will either learn pretty quickly or they won't be very good. 

Just for the record I have delegated as much as possible to try and speed through this season pretty quickly. 

I have retained control over the individual training of all 3 squads, (but delegated team training), and I will be in control of buying and selling players, and I will also be in control of set-pieces. 

Everything else has been delegated. 

[Jimbokav1971]

You see this is exactly the problem. 

Munoz (FRA) (Fickle) SELL is getting paid so much money that even Marseille, (a relatively big French club), want is to contribute £60k pw to his wages if they sign him. Well he's on £185k pw and we're not playing him even if he stays, and making the decision now rather than later in the window will at least get him off the books early. The other thing of course is that the £20M we get for him, (even if we don't get the £4.6M), more than makes up for us paying £60k pw to his wages, (which amounts to £3.12M). Yeah if this was a proper save I would probably decline this and wait for a better offer, but let's just get him gone. 

1 down. 5 to go. 

2 down. 4 to go. 

They don't want to leave, and considering how much they're getting paid I don't blame them! 

3 down, (sort of). 3 to go. 

4 down, (sort of). 2 to go. I know it's only a loan and he will be back next season, but I'm only here for 1 season and so for my purposes he's gone and more importantly 100% of his wages are gone. If this was a proper save I wouldn't have loaned him out and would have waited for a permanent transfer. 

5 down. 1 to go. I know this is a rubbish deal, and in a proper save I would have negotiated for a much better deal, but I just want him gone. 

And that's all 6 gone, (sort of). 

Yeah I know that 3 of them are still here on loan, but we're not paying any wages and that's all that matters. 

Now come on. You can't look at us spending just £1M pw on wages now and tell me that isn't better? 

 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Thebaker said:

Good work on documenting how the AI does things. I would also add that the AI  concentrates on CA both when making transfers in and when picking the squad, it seems to ignore (or not take into account) players with higher PA who if played could improve. It also undervalues players when selling them for the same reason.

Human players and indeed RL managers would simply not work like this.

I think you're partly right. They seem to think about PA when buying/selling players, but when it comes to playing them, it's all about there here and now, (but then again don't we all know managers like that too). I think there should be more styles of managers and certain types of managers who will be more likely to play kids with PA ahead of better CA players. 

I don't want all AI managers to work like this and play high PA youth ahead of older but better CA players, but I do want a certain type and number of managers to do that and I would agree the balance isn't right yet. 

The result of this is that young players often don't develop as they might, (but again that might be the case in real life too), and the possible exception to this is where the manager is forced to play them due to availability.

I don't think it's a million miles off. I would just like to see it tweaked a little in favour of long-term planning to reach PA. 

[Thebaker]

40 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I think you're partly right. They seem to think about PA when buying/selling players, but when it comes to playing them, it's all about there here and now, (but then again don't we all know managers like that too). I think there should be more styles of managers and certain types of managers who will be more likely to play kids with PA ahead of better CA players. 

I don't want all AI managers to work like this and play high PA youth ahead of older but better CA players, but I do want a certain type and number of managers to do that and I would agree the balance isn't right yet. 

The result of this is that young players often don't develop as they might, (but again that might be the case in real life too), and the possible exception to this is where the manager is forced to play them due to availability.

I don't think it's a million miles off. I would just like to see it tweaked a little in favour of long-term planning to reach PA. 

Yes you right about RL managers doing the same, i've seen several in action at my own club

[Jimbokav1971]

4 hours ago, Thebaker said:

Yes you right about RL managers doing the same, i've seen several in action at my own club

This gives me an opportunity to tell you that I'm a Barnet fan so that you can thank me for Ronnie Edwards by the way. 

I think he's going to look better and better the higher up he plays. Who cares if he isn't a man-mountain. The bloke can play football. 

[thefmveteran86]

Just been reading on your progress, would you by any chance post your squad view please?

[Jimbokav1971]

39 minutes ago, thefmveteran86 said:

Just been reading on your progress, would you by any chance post your squad view please?

[l4nd3r]

21 horas atrás, Jimbokav1971 disse:

Just lost a whole long post trying to mention @l4nd3r because I couldn't work out what his name was. Does it start with a 1 or an i or an I or something else?  In the end I copy and pasted his name and then clicked on it as I posted and it took me away from my post and to his profile!  

Ah well. I will have another go tomorrow. 

It starts with a L, it's Lander it's a relic from when l33t was cool for online nicknames.

Edited July 26 by l4nd3r

[Thebaker]

20 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

This gives me an opportunity to tell you that I'm a Barnet fan so that you can thank me for Ronnie Edwards by the way. 

I think he's going to look better and better the higher up he plays. Who cares if he isn't a man-mountain. The bloke can play football. 

I don't know anything about him although he's likely to start 5th choice at the club unless he plays somewhere other than CB. The manager does like a ball playing CB but we spent £20 million on another this season.

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Thebaker said:

I don't know anything about him although he's likely to start 5th choice at the club unless he plays somewhere other than CB. The manager does like a ball playing CB but we spent £20 million on another this season.

Yep. Expect THB will be 1 starter but don't know if ABK will be returning after his loan? 

See you've also signed Wood from Managers old club Swansea. Didn't know that. You will think initially that Edwards isn't big enough, but you will change your mind. Looking forward to seeing you lot play this season actually. 

[Sir_Liam]

I normally do save games where I stay at one club so don't get to see the damage the AI does after I've left.  I have thought in the past that I'd like to holiday a few seasons on some of my old save games to see what happens, I think I might do that after reading this.

[Jimbokav1971]

11 hours ago, Sir_Liam said:

I normally do save games where I stay at one club so don't get to see the damage the AI does after I've left.  I have thought in the past that I'd like to holiday a few seasons on some of my old save games to see what happens, I think I might do that after reading this.

I think it will largely depend on how you play and how that ties in with board vision, (but even that's not guaranteed obviously). 

In a long-terms save where you have the current squad and then almost another squad in waiting, (as you sign and develop the next generation in the U21's or whatever), then I think the transition would be largely seamless. Although the long-term planning and squad building has improved hugely, the strategy still seems to involve playing players based on CA rather than PA, so the knock-on result of that is that the high PA players never actually reach their PA, (because they're not given the opportunity because their CA has never been high enough), and it's a vicious circle. 

The seem I find most strange is when we're looking to attend interviews at a prospective new club, we go through this long-winded process where they ask us about what sort of manager we are and how we plan to progress the club, but nobody ever asks us a question about formation and rarely, (although sometimes), about style. If you're a big club and you have been playing 3 at the back for... however many years and you've spent a small fortune on recruiting talented you ball-playing defenders who are particularly suited to playing in a 3, (and full-backs who are more WB's than FM), (and attackers who prefer to come infield), then at some points shouldnt someone be asking the question as to what formation you plan on playing at the club, (taking into account the squad you will be inheriting?) I've thought for a while this was a bit strange a d just another example of what is a great idea as a feature, but one which hasn't been fleshed out sufficiently. Even more so at a club where there DoF, (or someone else), might retain an input into what sort of players will be purchased. I think this is a perfect example of where the game is lagging a little behind reality. 

I know quite a few people play as if there is a DoF in charge of recruitment at the club, (and I often ask the DoF for recruitment suggestions), but I think there should be some clubs, (are Chelsea a good example?) where the recruitment isn't really down to the manager and he basically has to make do with whatever they sign for him. 

This DoF could be something that you can tick or untick in the settings somewhere, but I would like the idea of being approached by a big club, but where you might not have the control you have at a smaller club. I think it's the next step for the game. 

Getting back to the AI, I think it's improved immeasurably, but it's still not right in circumstances like these where they take over from a manager like me, (although I appreciate I'm probably at 1 extreme end of the way the game is played in some respects and that's hard to replicate with the AI). If I had to describe succinctly, (not easy for me), what I can do as a real manager that the AI seems incapable of doing, I would say that it's my ability to select players based on PA, with a longer-term view, at the expense of selecting a shorter-term CA based player. This si basically how I play the game whether it's Youth Only or not, and it's this that the AI seems to struggle with most. I never see a bright young prospect played ahead of a better CA, (but poorer PA), player. They only get the chance through injury and availability. 

The next thing I would say is that the financial planning is not right, but I don't think this is the Manager AI that's at fault here. I think it's the board AI.

If you look at the right-hand column in the next picture, my question would be..... "Advised by whom?" Who is suggesting that these are the max wages and where on Earth are they getting their figures from? 

How it should work. 

(I know I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here but I think this bit is part of the big issue. 

Rather than just an "Advised max masic wage", which seems like a load of old rubbish if you ask me. 

"Advised" by a start so nothing concrete. 
"Advised" by whom, (as I've already mentioned). 
"Maximum". Why mac rather than between x and y? 

How this works is that the budget should be set and that's figure A. 
The board/DoF/manager/Whoever should decide how much should be split (approx), between 1st Team and any development teams, (and approx. how many players we will have in each squad). Then the squad figure can be divided by the number of players to be in the squad and that gives you an average wage for each squad. Higher profile players will earn more than average and lower profile players will earn less than the average, but the basic calculation is still there somewhere. Squad cost/number of players = average player wage. That at least makes sense to me, but this advised max wage rubbish is just that, but seems to be something that is paid attention to when wages are discussed by the AI.

It's madness!

[Sir_Liam]

2 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I think it will largely depend on how you play and how that ties in with board vision, (but even that's not guaranteed obviously). 

In a long-terms save where you have the current squad and then almost another squad in waiting, (as you sign and develop the next generation in the U21's or whatever), then I think the transition would be largely seamless. Although the long-term planning and squad building has improved hugely, the strategy still seems to involve playing players based on CA rather than PA, so the knock-on result of that is that the high PA players never actually reach their PA, (because they're not given the opportunity because their CA has never been high enough), and it's a vicious circle. 

The seem I find most strange is when we're looking to attend interviews at a prospective new club, we go through this long-winded process where they ask us about what sort of manager we are and how we plan to progress the club, but nobody ever asks us a question about formation and rarely, (although sometimes), about style. If you're a big club and you have been playing 3 at the back for... however many years and you've spent a small fortune on recruiting talented you ball-playing defenders who are particularly suited to playing in a 3, (and full-backs who are more WB's than FM), (and attackers who prefer to come infield), then at some points shouldnt someone be asking the question as to what formation you plan on playing at the club, (taking into account the squad you will be inheriting?) I've thought for a while this was a bit strange a d just another example of what is a great idea as a feature, but one which hasn't been fleshed out sufficiently. Even more so at a club where there DoF, (or someone else), might retain an input into what sort of players will be purchased. I think this is a perfect example of where the game is lagging a little behind reality. 

I know quite a few people play as if there is a DoF in charge of recruitment at the club, (and I often ask the DoF for recruitment suggestions), but I think there should be some clubs, (are Chelsea a good example?) where the recruitment isn't really down to the manager and he basically has to make do with whatever they sign for him. 

This DoF could be something that you can tick or untick in the settings somewhere, but I would like the idea of being approached by a big club, but where you might not have the control you have at a smaller club. I think it's the next step for the game. 

Getting back to the AI, I think it's improved immeasurably, but it's still not right in circumstances like these where they take over from a manager like me, (although I appreciate I'm probably at 1 extreme end of the way the game is played in some respects and that's hard to replicate with the AI). If I had to describe succinctly, (not easy for me), what I can do as a real manager that the AI seems incapable of doing, I would say that it's my ability to select players based on PA, with a longer-term view, at the expense of selecting a shorter-term CA based player. This si basically how I play the game whether it's Youth Only or not, and it's this that the AI seems to struggle with most. I never see a bright young prospect played ahead of a better CA, (but poorer PA), player. They only get the chance through injury and availability. 

The next thing I would say is that the financial planning is not right, but I don't think this is the Manager AI that's at fault here. I think it's the board AI.

If you look at the right-hand column in the next picture, my question would be..... "Advised by whom?" Who is suggesting that these are the max wages and where on Earth are they getting their figures from? 

How it should work. 

(I know I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here but I think this bit is part of the big issue. 

Rather than just an "Advised max masic wage", which seems like a load of old rubbish if you ask me. 

"Advised" by a start so nothing concrete. 
"Advised" by whom, (as I've already mentioned). 
"Maximum". Why mac rather than between x and y? 

How this works is that the budget should be set and that's figure A. 
The board/DoF/manager/Whoever should decide how much should be split (approx), between 1st Team and any development teams, (and approx. how many players we will have in each squad). Then the squad figure can be divided by the number of players to be in the squad and that gives you an average wage for each squad. Higher profile players will earn more than average and lower profile players will earn less than the average, but the basic calculation is still there somewhere. Squad cost/number of players = average player wage. That at least makes sense to me, but this advised max wage rubbish is just that, but seems to be something that is paid attention to when wages are discussed by the AI.

It's madness!

I've got save games going back to FM2016 I'd like to try this on, and from 2016 to 2020 I played a similar way, managing in Eastern European leagues of varying strengths, signing a lot of young players and relying on loan fees to make a profit.  I stopped doing this as much as SI (rightly imo) made it harder to generate loan fees from 2021 onwards, but I still signed young players and looked to profit from them, and was clever at keeping them at the club over the long term if they became key players, even when there was a lot of interest in them.

As I've often played in leagues where player values are very low compared to the larger European leagues (Sweden, Belarus, Serbia) I think the AI manager will sell the best players cheaply and be wasteful when spending money because of the bank balance I've built up.  I'll be interested to see if there's any difference in AI behaviour across different games, especially as I have games in Serbia with the same club on FM2017 and FM2020, where the club is one of the best in Europe.

Whilst I'm not massively experienced with the in game interview process, I've tended to find it an exercise in making sure you say the right thing rather than what you really think, so I agree they should make changes to that.

[Jimbokav1971]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Liam said:

I've got save games going back to FM2016 I'd like to try this on, and from 2016 to 2020 I played a similar way, managing in Eastern European leagues of varying strengths, signing a lot of young players and relying on loan fees to make a profit.  I stopped doing this as much as SI (rightly imo) made it harder to generate loan fees from 2021 onwards, but I still signed young players and looked to profit from them, and was clever at keeping them at the club over the long term if they became key players, even when there was a lot of interest in them.

As I've often played in leagues where player values are very low compared to the larger European leagues (Sweden, Belarus, Serbia) I think the AI manager will sell the best players cheaply and be wasteful when spending money because of the bank balance I've built up.  I'll be interested to see if there's any difference in AI behaviour across different games, especially as I have games in Serbia with the same club on FM2017 and FM2020, where the club is one of the best in Europe.

Whilst I'm not massively experienced with the in game interview process, I've tended to find it an exercise in making sure you say the right thing rather than what you really think, so I agree they should make changes to that.

You make an interesting point about managing in leagues where the value of players is low. From my perspective that has been the liked of Iceland and Gibraltar, and I didn't find that a problem at all in Serbia, (although that was quite a few issues ago). 

I think that the AI buying of players is actually better than it was historically, and if I was to highlight an area of most concern then  it would be AI selling players. The free agents that are available, seemingly in every save I play are ridiculous, and that's from someone who doesn't always buy players in a save. 

I totally agree about the interview process, and rather than telling the truth, (so you get the right job), my strategy is usually to tell them what I think they want to hear, although I have played about with this in Youth Only Journeyman saves, and it wasn't very successful. I found myself at the wrong clubs, (or more accurately working for boards), who didn't share the vision that I sold them in the interview. They employed me, but in hindsight I'm not sure why. 

[Jimbokav1971]

This is the last season I will play in this save. 

You know I took over and I got rid of the 6 high earners at the club, (all earning in excess of £100k pw). 

Between them they were earning approx. £900,000 pw, and by getting rid of them I reduced our wage budget, (with 1 other exit I think), to under £100,000 pw. I should add that only 3 of them left on permanent deals and I had to be content with the other 3 going out on loan, (having 100% of their salaries paid), and generating £4M in loan fees. Had this been a proper save I would have made more of an effort to get them out permanently. 

I refused to sign any players who would arrive before the season ended, (although I couldn't help but sign free-transfer and hot prospects for next season even though this save WILL NOT CONTINUE! 

I sold 2 significant players in Jan simply because I didn't like them and would rather get rid of them and bring some cash in rather than them staying, stinking up the place with their unhappiness and not playing

Hernández (MEX) 5'10" is a short Mexican centre-half would couldn't jump and wasn't very good in midfield. 

Asín (ESP) (Det) was a reasonable AMC, but who just wasn't suited to the way we play under me. 

There were only 2 free transfers in and they both arrived before I did. 

1 of them was the short Mexican who couldn't jump and the other was a Right back and interestingly they were both signed from Forest. 

The squad view suggests that things went pretty well for a few reasons. 

1. We played 66 games and you don't do that if you haven't had a decent season. 
2. We had 2 players score 30+ goals. 
3. We had 4 players score 10+ goals. 
4. Of the 23 players who started at least 10 games, 9 of them had average ratings above 7.00 for the whole season. 

How did we do in the league? 

We had an awful start, losing our opening 3 games in the league, and although we weren't called to a Board meeting to discuss our future, the players did come to me after the Kilmarnock game telling me that they had lost confidence in me and what was I going to do about it? I have been sacked for losing the dressing room before, but I'm not sure I have ever had the players come to me before like that. Luckily we won our next league game 1-0 and we were off an running. I should add that at this stage, although we had lost 3 games from 3 in the league, we were busy with Europa League qualifying and it meant that while we had played 3 games in the league, other had played 6 and 7, so we were also bottom of the table and a few points adrift at 1 point. 

Although it's not as bad as it used to be, there still seems to be a bit of an issue with players/board not understanding that you have games in hand when you are struggling at the bottom of the table. 

After that we really kicked on in the league and won 19 of our next 25 games, losing just 2. It rocketed us up to the top of the table and we were flying. 

I think it was Newton who said something like "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction", and we got that reaction during the run-in, when our exhausted young squad simply fell apart. Our 1st choice striker got injured and our 2nd choice striker suddenly couldn't do the business when he had to play 90+ mins twice a week. Our players were dropping like flies and the season was just about a month too long. Had we had a bigger squad then who knows what we might have been able to achieve, but the wheel came off hugely at the end and I think this is just what you get when you play a high pressing game for a whole season with a small(ish) squad, many of whom are youngsters. I think the only reason they lasted so long without imploding is because I was religiously rotating every single game, and this obviously gave us a physical edge of the opposition. It meant that we had effectively 2 whole 11's who were all match-fit when called upon and when someone got injured or suspended I tried not to disrupt the other XI and instead promoted a fringe player to fill the gap. It worked really well until the last month of the season. 

While it could be argued that this season is a failure because not only did we not win the league, (or anything else for that matter), we didn't even make a Final of a Cup and didn't finish Runners Up in the league. I would argue however that despite cutting the wage budget about £1M pw and saving £50M+ over the course of the season, I managed to make them more competitive than they had been the previous season, and had we signed a few cheap youngsters, (either at the start of the season or in January), then who knows what we might have achieved. I didn't want to sign anyone, (not even 6 youngsters to replace the 6 big wages going out), because I just thought doing it completely with nothing but the squad I inherited would be better. 

In Europe, Europa League Qualifying was tough. Our 1st Team were playing in these games while our 2nd Team were struggling in the league and the League Cup. 

We sailed through the League Phase and qualified for the Knockout Stages pretty comfortably. The only poor performance was away to Freiburg. 

I was astonished to thump Arsenal in that 1st leg, but Napoli were too good for us even on our best day, and we were starting to struggle with exhausted bodies by this stage anyway.

In the League Cup it was a battle from the start as our 2nd Team really struggled and needed pens to even progress past Raith Rovers. my old/soon to be new club Tullibody eventually put us out of our misery and allowed us to concentrate more fully on the league. 

The Scottish Cup fixtures were kinder to the 2nd Team, and they got as far as the Semi-Final until I had to rotate the squad too much and they couldn't overcome Motherwell. This is probably the only area where I think we underachieved because Motherwell are a Championship club and we really should have won. 

It's not often I get a player to score 40 goals in a season, (mainly because my GK's are usually taking pens), but we were all set for not 1 but 2 players to break this barrier until Lamb (ENG) (F.Pro) 6'1" got injured with 4 and a half games still to play. 

Jenks (F.Det) 6'5" HGC was the real shock and I can tell you he didn't look like this at the beginning of the season. Him making 29(27) appearances has really exploded his development and he had a fantastic season. 

I have absolutely no doubt that if they had both been fit and available over the last 4 games of the season then they would both have reached 40+ goals and we would have won the league. 

Anmyway, while I still consider the season a success on the pitch, (although not as successful as I would like), the real success was off the pitch. 

We stopped leaking money at an alarming rate and solidified things for the future. The exposure given to the younger players has exploded their development and many are significantly more valuable than they were at the start of the season. 

If I was a DoF or a Chairman or whatever at this club then I would say that a £1M pw budget is completely reasonable and all that's required is for the type of player target to change. Just go for younger players rather than experienced players and it's win/win.

I have 13 players arriving on a free, (and 1 arriving for a £2.5M fee), but I'm still not continuing this branch of the save. I've shown what can be done here with just some really basic work, and it will be really interesting now to see what happens to Rangers when I return to Tullibody and don't save them. 

 

Thanks for reading. I've really loved this part of the save. 

[leobiazzi]

Thanks for all your hard work in this branch of the save!

[Rikulec]

Amazing work mate, especially with the latter part showcasing just how much is wrong with the way AI handles long-term management. Kudos to you. 

[BML]

Really interesting epilogue Jimbo.

[Jimbokav1971]

6 hours ago, leobiazzi said:

Thanks for all your hard work in this branch of the save!

 

6 hours ago, Rikulec said:

Amazing work mate, especially with the latter part showcasing just how much is wrong with the way AI handles long-term management. Kudos to you. 

 

3 hours ago, BML said:

Really interesting epilogue Jimbo.

Thanks lads. Must admit that I was expecting this bit of the save to be a complete slog but actually I was completely engrossed in it and loved every minute. 

The last season I did was a little touch-and-go at the start, but as soon as we got that 1st win we were flying and I'm just a bit gutted that the wheels came off near the end. We should have won the league and we should have made the Final of the Scottish Cup. Beating Napoli was alwasy going to be a tough ask so I have no complaints there. 

Tullibody seems a mess now. 

[ChaosClive]

Great save, excited for the return of Tullibody.

[jrobertgordon13]

This was an interesting save idea. I think @Maw74’s attempted saves with Tottenham from his Stopsley save since they went all the way down to league two. I always love saves like this. 

[Jimbokav1971]

57 minutes ago, jrobertgordon13 said:

This was an interesting save idea. I think @Maw74’s attempted saves with Tottenham from his Stopsley save since they went all the way down to league two. I always love saves like this. 

I hadn't seen that thread. That is really interesting.  I wonder was it financial issues too though, because that's what made the challenge rather than just because they had been relegated. If @Maw74sees this, perhaps he could link me to his Spurs threads in League 2. 

I'm sure anyone who enjoyed this would also enjoy his. 

[Jimbokav1971]

3 hours ago, ChaosClive said:

Great save, excited for the return of Tullibody.

Thanks very much. Really enjoyed it. 

Not really enjoying being back at Tullibody yet. I made an expensive mistake in the last season, it's taking me a while to get back in the swing of things and I hate to say it but I'm really missing scouting and signing players! 

I wonder of this is the beginning of the end of Youth Only for me? 

[Maw74]

On 29/07/2024 at 22:32, jrobertgordon13 said:

This was an interesting save idea. I think @Maw74’s attempted saves with Tottenham from his Stopsley save since they went all the way down to league two. I always love saves like this. 

 

On 29/07/2024 at 23:31, Jimbokav1971 said:

I hadn't seen that thread. That is really interesting.  I wonder was it financial issues too though, because that's what made the challenge rather than just because they had been relegated. If @Maw74sees this, perhaps he could link me to his Spurs threads in League 2. 

I'm sure anyone who enjoyed this would also enjoy his. 

Ok, took over Spurs 4 times lol
 

1st Attempt Season 2038/2039 
We managed Spurs for 10 seasons, got them back to Premier League, got relegated, then promoted back again and then Champions 

___________________________________________________

 

2nd Attempt Season 2079/2080 
Very short as I decided to continue with Stopsley Utd.

___________________________________________________

 

3rd Attempt Season 2087/2088
Promotions from League Two to Championship but lost out in Championship play-offs.

___________________________________________________

 

4th Attempt Season 2094/2095 
Unlike the other saves this wasn't a spin off, didn't last long at Spurs but the save goes on. (Currently with Milton at Chesterfield)

So as far as long term save is concerned Spurs remain in League 2.

Club Profile - Club Information - Club Overview

 

Edited August 1 by Maw74

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Maw74 said:

 

Ok, took over Spurs 4 times lol
 

1st Attempt Season 2038/2039 
We managed Spurs for 10 seasons, got them back to Premier League, got relegated, then promoted back again and then Champions 

___________________________________________________

 

2nd Attempt Season 2079/2080 
Very short as I decided to continue with Stopsley Utd.

___________________________________________________

 

3rd Attempt Season 2087/2088
Promotions from League Two to Championship but lost out in Championship play-offs.

___________________________________________________

 

4th Attempt Season 2094/2095 
Unlike the other saves this wasn't a spin off, didn't last long at Spurs but the save goes on. (Currently with Milton at Chesterfield)

So as far as long term save is concerned Spurs remain in League 2.

Club Profile - Club Information - Club Overview

 

Brilliant stuff. 

Will catch up with that over the weekend.