Steve Clarke's Mannschaft: We'll Be Coming!

[eenie]

1 minute ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

Kinda mental that we've scored more goals at this tournament than France have after two games.  

We've barely had a shot on goal. In fact, other teams have done the scoring for us. Talk about efficiency! If only we could defend! 

I doubt any team has ever had a better goal conversion ratio than us against Germany. I hate football stats and football stat nerds, but apparently we had one goal from an xG of 0.01, so that's pretty decent  

[bigmarsh]

Here’s hoping 💪🍻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

 

[Sons FC]

Just time for Steve Clarke's last minute team talk - "come on lads stub out the fags"

[Gee_Simpson]

Bye bye Steve. Unacceptable performances this whole tournament. 1 shot on target vs Hungary 😂

Edited June 23 by Gee_Simpson

[Sned]

Not willing to indulge in any 'good effort lads' **** talk.

Massive disappointment, mainly from Clarke. I'm annoyed  

Persisted with a system that gave us no forward momentum, didn't allow us to create any chances, restricted all of our best players. Only tactic was to 'hang in there' and try and get a break from a set piece - before some desperate moves in the last few minutes of the final game.

Pathetic, really.

[eenie]

1 minute ago, Sned said:

Not willing to indulge in any 'good effort lads' **** talk.

Massive disappointment, mainly from Clarke. I'm annoyed  

Persisted with a system that gave us no forward momentum, didn't allow us to create any chances, restricted all of our best players. Only tactic was to 'hang in there' and try and get a break from a set piece - before some desperate moves in the last few minutes of the final game.

Pathetic, really.

His subs today were disgraceful.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Can change the title now to we'll be going.

[Heartwork]

If Clarke goes after this, who takes over? Moyes?

[Hairycull]

Clarke has to take the largest blame for this failure to beat a terrible Hungary side.

He switches to a 4-4-2 but doesn't bring on our best wide player (Forrest) and when Robertson goes off he brings on Morgan and plays Mclean as the left back and not our back up left back Taylor.

Thanks for getting us here Steve but I think your time is up.

[Hairycull]

5 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

If Clarke goes after this, who takes over? Moyes?

Derek McInnes I hope

[eenie]

Just now, Hairycull said:

Clarke has to take the largest blame for this failure to beat a terrible Hungary side.

He switches to a 4-4-2 but doesn't bring on our best wide player (Forrest) and when Robertson goes off he brings on Morgan and plays Mclean as the left back and not our back up left back Taylor.

Thanks for getting us here Steve but I think your time is up.

Unless Gilmour & Robertson were injured to the point where they couldn't continue, taking them off was diabolical. And if you're taking Robbo off, you need to replace him with a left-back not Kenny ****ing McLean!

And Shankland offered infinitely more up front than Adams (bless him) so again, giving him only 15 mins tonight and about 25 mins total for the entire tournament is baffling.

[Tikka Mezzala]

I would much rather we had a go tonight and lost three-nil, than to have offered nothing as an attacking threat all night, only to concede in the final moments after throwing everyone forward in a desperate attempt to snatch a late winner. 

Clarke's decisions ultimately cost us, but if we're going to replace him after tonight, it has to be for someone who thinks differently about football. If we're going to appoint more pragmatists, we might as well just stick with Clarke who has at least shown an ability to take us to tournaments. 

[Wavelberry]

As a semi-neutral bystander it seems that the early qualifying team played with a '**** it' mentality that saw them qualify before they could think about it. Following that the decision making and tactical ideology has been more and more risk averse to the point that the team has looked *****. There are mitigating factors such as Dykes injury destroying Steve's one good plan which is unfortunate. However I think it's fair to note that he has not adapted to the circumstances he has been dealt at all and his reluctance to make roll the dice at any point, use Shankers effectively or change from his original plan has hampered Scotland greatly. 

Clarke has made Scotland tournament relevant for the first time in two decades and that can only be respected but he's clearly at the end of the line now. Moyes is Clarke 2.0 with trophies and better experience and he won't change things too much but will add an extra dimension to the play. No brainer to hire him.

[Sned]

Also, I know we don't have the strongest squad, we've lost a few important players, and we don't have a massive pool of talent, but I'm already sick of pundits making out we are a total team of plodders that valiantly gave it their all. We have a number of players playing at a decent level, for decent teams, and we should have had enough to at least create some chances in this tournament. Gutless, negative tactics have cost us massively.

[eenie]

I was going to do kneejerk tournament ratings for the squad but it was so depressing that I won't bother

Instead, I'd say that Robertson, Tierney, McGinn, McGregor, McTominay (just), Gilmour and Shankland get pass marks.

[Tikka Mezzala]

The team desperately lacks pace at the top end of the park. Makes me yearn for the days of Ikechi Anya ffs!  

[eenie]

2 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

The team desperately lacks pace at the top end of the park. Makes me yearn for the days of Ikechi Anya ffs!  

You could have prime Ronaldo (the real one, not the Portuguese one) up front for Scotland but he's going to do sweet FA without any service or support.

[Gary_Parker]

Can't even say that was the usual glorious failure that normally be fits Scotland. 

Really poor from start to finish. Weak, like-for-like subs until the final one, too many players off their game, little to no service or even industry. 

Time to reset for the next qualifying period. Say goodbye to the squad fillers, hope our injury list improves, pick a left back, stop cramming players into unsuitable positions. and start to build around Gilmour and Ferguson in the middle. 

[Hairycull]

It is interesting that we have our formation so we can play Robertson and Tierney in the same team yet 1 of those players has missed around 50% of the games under Steve Clarke due to injuries. 

 

A rethink of our formation and tactics is needed, badly. McGregor and Gilmour in the same team doesn't work.

I noticed when our defenders had the ball, we would have 8 players inside our own half. So no wonder we have no teeth. McTominay, McGinn & Adams then surrounded by opposition players and we have nobody to pass the ball forward to. So we seen virtually all 2nd/3rd passes going backwards. Our back 3 also refused to pass the ball to our wing backs. I dont know whether that was because of what happened against Germany or not but it just made it too easy for Hungary. 

 

If Clarke steps down then we need a different style of Manager. Please not Moyes.

[metallimuse]

I think Clarke should be given the up coming Nations League run see how he sets up and performs against sides that are bigger than us, maybe an arguement to say Poland maybe on our level but probs a cut above.

Utterly pointless campaign though as I don't think Group A sides are playing for a playoff, playing to win the tournament aren't they?

[Sned]

I'm even angrier this morning  Just so gutless.

I think McGregor and Gilmour can work together, the problem was they had so little ahead of them. So often they received the ball and could only go backwards, or they did manage to find a forward pass into McTominay and McGinn, but they were then left with zero forward options and the play broke down unless they managed to dribble past a few opponents by themselves. Every opponent had us easily figured out from the first whistle.

We barely mustered a real chance in three games because Clarke's only real intent was to see us have pointless possession in the back third, be difficult to break down, and try and generate one scoring opportunity a game. We had the players to do better than we've showed in the three games.

That said, I hope McGregor retires from the national team now to extend his club career, which would also free up that spot for Gilmour to cement his position for the years to come.

[metallimuse]

While I agree we had nothing moving in front him I actually thought McGregor was quite negative with his play. You could see him instructing others to pass backwards and towards the end when we did start trying to do something he was telling lads to calm it down.

I think he's been a great player for years and he was the one who set up our goal last game but he hasn't impressed me this tournament, not that anyone did but I was looking to the likes of him and Robertson to be the on the pitch leaders marshalling the side through games.

[Gary_Parker]

8 minutes ago, Sned said:

I'm even angrier this morning  Just so gutless.

I think McGregor and Gilmour can work together, the problem was they had so little ahead of them. So often they received the ball and could only go backwards, or they did manage to find a forward pass into McTominay and McGinn, but they were then left with zero forward options and the play broke down unless they managed to dribble past a few opponents by themselves. Every opponent had us easily figured out from the first whistle.

We barely mustered a real chance in three games because Clarke's only real intent was to see us have pointless possession in the back third, be difficult to break down, and try and generate one scoring opportunity a game. We had the players to do better than we've showed in the three games.

That said, I hope McGregor retires from the national team now to extend his club career, which would also free up that spot for Gilmour to cement his position for the years to come.

I'd agree with that. I think with Gilmour and McGregor you have no consistent runner from deep. For me a 3 of Gilmour, McTominay and McGinn/Ferguson would offer us something different. 

Just want away from the two left back shoehorning. Pick one, bench the other. 

[eenie]

McGregor and Gilmour can definitely work together.

[Jorg]

I wasn't trying to single out McGregor with my comment the other day, I was just being honest.  He has had a really poor tournament.  No idea how he stayed on and McGinn and Gilmour went off!  It isn't all on him of course and he has been a very good servant for Scotland.

Clarke can go for me because that was awful last night.  So so negative and unwilling to take any chances until it was way too late.  Surely you play the first half and then have a plan of what to do if we needed to be more adventurous in the second half.  He just chucked a load of players on and hoped for the best.  How you end up with McLean at left back and Hendry at right back is beyond me.  Shankland should be raging with his lack of minutes.  Adams has been really poor but he is another player that had barely played in the second half of the season.

17 shots in the whole tournament!  We would be lucky if five of those were on target!

[eenie]

The subs last night were inexplicable and, frankly, inexcusable. Unless Robertson and Gilmour were injured, taking them off was baffling, and replacing Robertson at LB with Kenny McLean was shocking.

[Tikka Mezzala]

We need to hit the reset button. This group of players and the manager have been responsible for guiding us to two major tournaments, which is no small feat. given our record prior to EURO 2020. So they deserve some respect. But we need to start a new cycle now. I obviously hold Calum McGregor in high regard, but I'm not against him having a more limited involvement (or even maybe having him focus solely on club duties) moving forward. He'll be 33 by the time the WC rolls around, and I don't think he'll be able to keep playing the number of games he currently does moving forward. I also think guys like Armstrong, McLean, Hanley, Ryan Jack, and Ryan Christie have to be phased out and replaced with younger players. Maybe one or two of them would be useful as experienced members of the squad, but guys like Armstrong and Jack don't bring enough to the table to continue being selected. Hopefully the likes of Ben Doak, Max Johnston, Lennon Miller, and Tommy Conway can work their way into the squad over the next cycle or two, while Lewis Ferguson will hopefully step up and become a central figure of the team. 

I'm not sure who I would appoint as manager if Clarke does leave. David Moyes would be the guy with the best CV, arguably, but I'm not totally sold on it. I guess we're quite limited, especially with Scottish managers. Not sure what our choices would be like if we entertained a foreign option. Seems to have worked quite well for Albania, Georgia and other smaller nations. But there's certainly risk that comes with bringing in someone totally unfamiliar with the setup here, although outside eyes might actually be a good thing. 

I'm open to the future and I hope whatever happens in the next few weeks/months, we're ready to go again for the World Cup qualifiers, because it would be amazing to participate in a North American-based WC with all the Scots living over in the US and Canada. 

[eenie]

Agree that we need to make a conscious effort to integrate younger players into a squad, that while not packed with OAPs, has a pretty high average age. We've got some decent young(er) players who didn't make it this time: Hickey, Ferguson, Doig, Doak could all have come in and done a job for us but for injury. And agree with Tikka that it's probably a good point to call time on a few old stalwarts: the likes of Jack, McLean, Armstrong have done well for us in the past but we should be looking to say thanks and move on.

I don't think there's any need to add McGregor to the list of guys to phase out, though. I get that Celtic fans will want to be selfish and have him prioritise club over country, but he's a really important player for Scotland (despite the criticism that he's taken at Euro 2024) and even if he's only about for the World Cup '26 cycle then we should make him one of the first names on the team sheet. Can think about how to replace him beyond that point if it proves necessary, but even if a bit of a rebuild is required, there's no need to reduce his role right now.

Manager wise, I have no idea who would be suitable. Moyes does not inspire me whatsoever but the number of suitable candidates is pretty small.

[TM]

31 minutes ago, Jorg said:

17 shots in the whole tournament!  We would be lucky if five of those were on target!

nah, we couldn't even get 5 on target

I'm just annoyed that you could call the game before it happened, playing for a draw until attempting to go for it in the last 5-10 minutes which in all honesty didn't make sense because a draw "could" have seen us qualify with the group situation as it is.  I know it's difficult with the players we have but it's just irritating to watch negative play when we had a decent system through the qualifiers

then again if we had got through, it was Portugal and that wouldn't have been a pretty game to watch - maybe for them but more likely not for us

[HOORAY HENRIK]

If you’re going to play the way Clarke did you’d better hope for great set pieces to grab a goal. Nope, the delivery time and time again was pathetic across all three games.

[bermybhoy]

How have England scored the same number of goals as Scotland? We didn't even leave our own half. 

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

2 hours ago, bermybhoy said:

How have England scored the same number of goals as Scotland? We didn't even leave our own half. 

Southgate looked at Clarke's tactics and took it as a template rather than a warning.

[Wavelberry]

My mate text me last night asking the same things. Guess it's the difference between a good coach and an elite coach.

[metallimuse]

Just heard a fact on a podcast that we have the most players (7) playing in a second tier league (English Championship) out of all the squads at the tournament. Speaks volumes and I'm not saying that in a way to big up the English Championship .

[Gee_Simpson]

10 hours ago, metallimuse said:

Just heard a fact on a podcast that we have the most players (7) playing in a second tier league (English Championship) out of all the squads at the tournament. Speaks volumes and I'm not saying that in a way to big up the English Championship .

I think the English Championship is overrated, personally.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

As if things weren't hurting enough, now we have another team yet again waltzing in for the very first time, and making it to the 2nd round. Well done Georgia, joining the likes of Iceland, Wales, & N. Ireland in succeeding where we have abysmally failed at 14 times.

Edited Thursday at 10:47 by Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Gee_Simpson]

1 hour ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

As if things weren't hurting enough, now we have another team yet again waltzing in for the very first time, and making it to the 2nd round. Well done Georgia, joining the likes of Iceland, Wales, & N. Ireland in succeeding where we have abysmally failed at 14 times.

To think we finished above them in qualifying too 🙈