Games 31 and 32: Denmark vs Serbia live from the Fußball Arena München ITV4 8pm AND England vs Slovenia live from the Cologne Stadium ITV1 8pm

[Bigwig]

16 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

But auditioning three different CMs after the games have already started.  It really doesn't look like we know our plan this time.

It’s all City’s fault for ruining Phillips. 

[GunmaN1905]

Now I can't criticize Rice, why does he have to be such a class act?

[TalkSport]

1 hour ago, ham_aka_stam said:

Bit of a hot-take.

The game was boring - 100%.  But we all know by now, surely, that Southgate plays the group games as low-intensity rehearsals for the knockout games against more expansive teams?

That's why he's got them playing with the ball to feet so much, being fairly static with the personnel/tactics and not necessarily making big calls early to go out and attack, because he's practicing for games where for ball retention is key, and trying to get the players playing together well.

Viewed from that lens it was OK, certainly a better overall performance than Denmark, and we were more in control than the Serbia game, which admittedly had a better result.  The passing improved massively once Mainoo came on (he's not the messiah, he's just a different player to Trent/Gallagher and likes those short quick passes rather than Trent's hollywood balls and Gallagher's suicide ones).

This feels a bit optimistic. Slovenia were interested in a draw only, and got that. 

We do not look like a side that’s being drilled for ball retention, because if we are, why the **** is Rice on his own, Pickford going long, Gallagher/Bellingham high and not showing, stones not stepping into midfield.

We’re not a possession based side, and as soon as we face a side that puts pressure on us, we’ll turn over that ball no problem and sit in. Counter will be our threat, in which case, you we’ll want Gordon on LW. Seeing as he’s got 5 mins in 3 games, it doesn’t suggest Southgate sees it that way.

[BigV]

28 minutes ago, TalkSport said:

because if we are, why the **** is Rice on his own, Pickford going long, Gallagher/Bellingham high and not showing, stones not stepping into midfield.

He wasnt. He literally had gallagher deeper than him yesterday and more alongside, it was infact Rice being slightly wider left whilst Bellingham was more in fodens way. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

1 hour ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Now I can't criticize Rice, why does he have to be such a class act?

Great player, great person.

[ham_aka_stam]

1 hour ago, eenie said:

Nae offence, but this is absolute pish  If he's trying to achieve what you claim he is, then he's not succeeding, because the players are not "playing together well" whatsoever  

"Imagine how bad we'd be if he didn't" is the natural counter argument.

I'm not saying it's working, but I reckon that's Southgate's logic.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

 

[ham_aka_stam]

37 minutes ago, BigV said:

He wasnt. He literally had gallagher deeper than him yesterday and more alongside, it was infact Rice being slightly wider left whilst Bellingham was more in fodens way. 

The problem for me was that Rice and Gallagher were hiding behind the two Slovakian CFs when our CBs had the ball.

The movement was lethargic, and decisions couldn't be made quickly because players weren't immediately showing for the ball, and when they did, it was too late and the passing lane was blocked.

[Bliss Seeker]

One of the obvious issues is the complete lack of width, it's like we're only playing on 70% of the entire pitch. It's not the just left side either, Walker always came inside to pick up the ball, and I don't remember him once getting forward on the overlap to support Saka. He kept dropping into the midfield too, it's such a bizarre system, no one plays like this - for this good reason. 

Looking back that team sheet is even more baffling, what was the point of it? We had nothing to lose - Kane, Bellingham, Saka and Rice could have had a bit of rest and the others in the squad would have that added motivation to do their thing. 

It's just baffling.

 

I don't think enough's being made of the players moaning at each other either. It happened right at the beginning yesterday, and at one point Jude was complaining to the bench about something that wasn't happening behind him. It's not a harmonious group this time. 

Have to wonder how much Ben White's decision not to be called up due to his argument with Steve Holland, and Gareth's lie in the press conference about it rubbed up the players the wrong way. Maybe it stems back to then, because one thing Southgate's team has always had going for it was good morale, that's just not there anymore.  

 

Edited Wednesday at 13:37 by Bliss Seeker

[JJ72]

45 minutes ago, Bliss Seeker said:

One of the obvious issues is the complete lack of width, it's like we're only playing on 70% of the entire pitch. It's not the just left side either, Walker always came inside to pick up the ball, and I don't remember him once getting forward on the overlap to support Saka. He kept dropping into the midfield too, it's such a bizarre system, no one plays like this - for this good reason. 

Looking back that team sheet is even more baffling, what was the point of it? We had nothing to lose - Kane, Bellingham, Saka and Rice could have had a bit of rest and the others in the squad would have that added motivation to do their thing. 

It's just baffling.

 

I don't think enough's being made of the players moaning at each other either. It happened right at the beginning yesterday, and at one point Jude was complaining to the bench about something that wasn't happening behind him. It's not a harmonious group this time. 

Have to wonder how much Ben White's decision not to be called up due to his argument with Steve Holland, and Gareth's lie in the press conference about it rubbed up the players the wrong way. Maybe it stems back to then, because one thing Southgate's team has always had going for it was good morale, that's just not there anymore.  

 

Winning always helps morale and we aren't doing that. Also, I'm sure the players aren't enjoying trying to play this system either.

Edited Wednesday at 14:21 by JJ72

[Rob1981]

Morale is driven by more than just tactics and team selection though.

The players are further into their careers.  They start to feel that weight of expectation when they have already been to a few tournaments and fallen just short. 

Playing in a first tournament, getting to a first semi in years in 2018, getting to a first final in year in 2020... feels massive to keep breaking new ground as a group where everyone is kind of in the same place.  But now you have players that know they are expected to go there and win.  And the likes of Walker and Trippier know it is probably their last tournament.  You feel the pressure in a different way. 

Same as Eriksson's mob in 2006.  The mood in that camp in 2006 was really different to 2002-04...  even though it was the same manager and a lot of the same players.

[The_jagster]

2 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Morale is driven by more than just tactics and team selection though.

The players are further into their careers.  They start to feel that weight of expectation when they have already been to a few tournaments and fallen just short. 

Playing in a first tournament, getting to a first semi in years in 2018, getting to a first final in year in 2020... feels massive to keep breaking new ground as a group where everyone is kind of in the same place.  But now you have players that know they are expected to go there and win.  And the likes of Walker and Trippier know it is probably their last tournament.  You feel the pressure in a different way. 

Same as Eriksson's mob in 2006.  The mood in that camp in 2006 was really different to 2002-04...  even though it was the same manager and a lot of the same players.

Sort of, but they also have the experience having done it before so shouldn't be caught out on the negative aspects of being holed up for a tournament.

The concern for me is that he's replaced Trent for an actual midfielder, then Gallagher for one of Mainoo/Wharton, and we still look bad. This doesn't look like a team which can just be tweaked a bit to be good. Maybe they are holding some effort back for the latter stages when they need it, I hope so.