FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[silentwars]

So presumably this will have a knock on effect for future release dates. I'd imagine it's unlikely they'll release FM26 in November, if the last game has only come out in March.

[Bahoi]

1 minute ago, Platinum said:

No one thinks this. It very very likely was clearly just bad decision making, and self delusion (which happens!)

I absolutely think this. Zealand thinks this too. Benjy fm kind of thinks this too. A lot of people think this too. Stop the copium.

[OlivierL]

2 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Money.  Would be financial suicide to do that.

Plus not all leagues run September to May.  A march release date will be ideal for those who play the Irish league for instance.

Ok but if they release it in march, when will FM26 be released, november ?

[RHKC]

6 minutes ago, Matteo3champions said:

I’ve preordered the game 2 minutes after that the release date was announced, and now i’m a bit disappointed that the game has been delayed.

i won’t ask the refund, and i’m happy about my choiche. I think that SI now needs our help, our support and our effort. I buy the game since 2001 and i remember very well the version that was delayed in march 2003. More than 20 years later, we are in the same situation.
 

What i hope now is that they will give us, the best game as possible as they do their best every year. I will be very happy if they turn back about international management. 
 

I’ve read messages here that some of you won’t buy the game in march. I’m talking to you: i’m sure that is a huge lie declared to yourself, and you know it. 

 

I'm definitely not buying the next game. I might buy FM26 depending on the reviews; that is if SI even manage to recover from this debacle.

 

[Robbles Quin ®™]

1 minute ago, Brother Ben said:

@santy001

How does this affect things for the researchers?  Will you guys have to resubmit everything nearer the time?

Kudos, as always, to you guys for giving up your time by the way  

Not sure, but research has been on point from everyone. As for how things affect us, its the same job as always, which is good! by the way how did everyone enjoy Japan in FM24? thought it would be a good idea to collect some feedback, which is always a good thing. 

[OlivierL]

2 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Money.  Would be financial suicide to do that.

Plus not all leagues run September to May.  A march release date will be ideal for those who play the Irish league for instance.

Ok but if they release it in march, when will FM26 be released, november ?

[Platinum]

2 minutes ago, Bahoi said:

I absolutely think this. Zealand thinks this too. Benjy fm kind of thinks this too. A lot of people think this too. Stop the copium.

Copium lool? What am I coping for??? Anyway I hid the comment just after posting as I disagreed with what I wrote, as people such as yourself do think that

[OlivierL]

2 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Money.  Would be financial suicide to do that.

Plus not all leagues run September to May.  A march release date will be ideal for those who play the Irish league for instance.

Ok but if they release it in march, when will FM26 be released, november ?

[Platinum]

It's released just before the end of the financial year. I doubt that's a coincidence

[Brother Ben]

3 minutes ago, WelshMourinho said:

I will never understand this "they need our support" viewpoint. They provide a product the customer pays for. They aren't doing us a favour. Their reward for a good product is lots of people playing the game and money for a job well done. There's no onus on the customer to buy a poor product as some sort of good will gesture. 

 

They will get my money and my 'support' when I see what the new game is going to look like and whether it matches my idea of a gold game, and not a second before.

I agree with you but to a lot of people its more than just a game. 

There was an excellent thread on here before where someone posted that FM had helped them with mental health issues they had been having.  In a lot of respects many people treat FM like they do their favourite football team.  Through thick and thin.

[FM'd-BRO]

Here me out; let's say they actually release fm25 in March (doubtful) this could be the changing of the guard.

Would we be happy with FM releasing around August rather than a November. SI have openly said the move to Unity will help speed up regular and more effective updates, meaning they could release the summer window database in late September. 

Whatever happens from now and March 25 is going to see a monemetal shift to the FM schedule. 

[Roy Race 9]

7 minutes ago, WelshMourinho said:

I will never understand this "they need our support" viewpoint. They provide a product the customer pays for. They aren't doing us a favour. Their reward for a good product is lots of people playing the game and money for a job well done. There's no onus on the customer to buy a poor product as some sort of good will gesture. 

 

They will get my money and my 'support' when I see what the new game is going to look like and whether it matches my idea of a gold game, and not a second before.

They have messed this up

There are many who were waiting to see what this new game would be like before buying

now with a March release

They should miss a version now as by the time this is actually patched and ‘some’ of the inevitable bugs addressed FM26 will be out[also the overlap of fixing bugs for FM25 will be the same time frame for work on FM26]

it doesnt look good at all 

but IMO November was always a weird time to release the game perhaps take this opportunity to move that 

 

Edited Thursday at 18:49 by Roy Race 9

[Brother Ben]

1 minute ago, OlivierL said:

Ok but if they release it in march, when will FM26 be released, november ?

Probably October like they usually do.

[silentwars]

1 minute ago, Brother Ben said:

Probably October like they usually do.

Surely that will hamper sales for FM26

[Brother Ben]

4 minutes ago, silentwars said:

Surely that will hamper sales for FM26

You could well be right but there are a lot of people like myself who will rightly or wrongly buy it regardless.  Partly through fear of missing out, partly because FM people are unique because for a very high percentage its the only game they play.  It's probably an unhealthy obsession to be fair, but it is what it is.

Edited Thursday at 18:53 by Brother Ben

[Rodrigogc]

I'm waiting to see what Miles will say about all of this. 

[Zapoleon]

I just hope this does not have a knock-on effect or start the precedent for a later release each year, November is already too late as it is. 

[BCFC_Mike]

2 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

I'm waiting to see what Miles will say about all of this. 

Me too. Not holding out much hope of it being any time soon though. 

[silentwars]

Just now, Brother Ben said:

You could well be right but there are a lot of people like myself who will rightly or wrongly buy it regardless.  Partly through fear of missing out, partly because FM people are unique because for a very high percentage its the only game they play.  It's probably an unhealthy obsession to be fair but it is what it is

They'd only have 6 months to add new features, none of which are likely going to be able to rival the new graphics. Hardcore players like yourself might buy it but I'm not so sure about the casual players, who are where the money is made. 

I can only imagine the regular release date of November is going to be a thing of the past, one way or the other 

[Nickg07]

Miles right now

 

 

[Cricket]

I don't want to sound rude... but is there even a game at this point ? I haven't seen anything related to match engine... not even a picture.... 

I know the database is there and menus are there, but i can do the menus in Figma as design in around one hour... however if you are gonna delay... at least show us something related to the match engine, as the primary reason for the game update was new engine, which is related to the match improvements.

No hate intended, just want to see that there is actually progress on what we were promised.

 

 

[RHKC]

7 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

I'm waiting to see what Miles will say about all of this. 

 

Probably cancelled another holiday.

[ajw10]

7 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

I'm waiting to see what Miles will say about all of this. 

He's there when things are going well. 

[Rodrigogc]

4 minutos atrás, Cricket disse:

I don't want to sound rude... but is there even a game at this point ? I haven't seen anything related to match engine... not even a picture.... 

I know the database is there and menus are there, but i can do the menus in Figma as design in around one hour... however if you are gonna delay... at least show us something related to the match engine, as the primary reason for the game update was new engine, which is related to the match improvements.

No hate intended, just want to see that there is actually progress on what we were promised.

 

What's interesting is that they were due to show us what Women's football would look like this week and with this delay we are left wondering what they really had to offer. Superiors may have seen it and possibly found it so awful and unpolished that they decided to call everything off and postpone the game. 

Edited Thursday at 19:05 by Rodrigogc

[AllyJoseph]

35 minutes ago, Matteo3champions said:

I’ve preordered the game 2 minutes after that the release date was announced, and now i’m a bit disappointed that the game has been delayed.

i won’t ask the refund, and i’m happy about my choiche. I think that SI now needs our help, our support and our effort. I buy the game since 2001 and i remember very well the version that was delayed in march 2003. More than 20 years later, we are in the same situation.
 

What i hope now is that they will give us, the best game as possible as they do their best every year. I will be very happy if they turn back about international management. 
 

I’ve read messages here that some of you won’t buy the game in march. I’m talking to you: i’m sure that is a huge lie declared to yourself, and you know it. 

I feel like this is a hold over from the Collyer brothers. When they were a niche title, with a small company, Eidos publishing them, then I get it. They released top quality games and needed our support.

SI are not a small company any more. They release a single game, every single year, which breaks records every single year. They have an absolute stranglehold over an entire genre, I'd suggest they have a stranglehold over management games in general. They have the power of SEGA helping them out and neigh on 30 years of success funding them. They've abused the good will of players for about 6-7 years now, with no real changes to the game in that time, and a hiddeously outdated graphics/ui/engine. They have been incredibly antagonistic to any and all criticism. They became corporate years ago and the plucky young start up who were passionate about the game they made has been dead for years.

They are not the same company you supported in 2003. Which in of itself isn't the same company that started things off.

[jc1]

They should just scrap FM25 and give themselves more time to have it ready for when next season starts around the end of September beginning of October. The game is full of bugs and when they attempt get rid of them, new ones appear making the game either boring, too easy, overly complicated and in general no fun at all, I've not played in months due it being far too easy to win with average squads once you get an over powering tactic, totally bored with it.

[StormenDK]

Thank gods for the delay.

Better wait and get it right, than releasing and having the entire community have a collective meltdown

I think this means that FM26 will probably just be an updated version with some of the lost features they took out of FM25. FM25 probably will require many patches over the spring and summer, and thus not much time/resources to develop a lot of new stuff for FM26,

I seriously doubt that future releases will be pushed into January.

[Weller1980]

For me this is quite simple, cancel FM25, release a database update plus some nice ME fixes because at the of the day these are the most important aspects and focus on FM 26 to release at the start of next season.

I hate to say it but FM 25 will be a buggy mess.

 

Edited Thursday at 19:16 by Weller1980

[Cricket]

3 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

What's interesting is that they were due to show us what Women's football would look like this week and with this delay we are left wondering what they really had to offer. Superiors may have seen it and possibly found it so awful and unpolished that they decided to call everything off and postpone the game. 

That would be awkward in a way, it will mean the superiors didn't check the progress of the game at all.

I can only presume there was something wrong with the code and they have to rewrite a very big chunk of it, in development a bad implementation from start will mean countless hours of rework. 

But it's curious how we really don't have anything, not even a small footage of how the match engine will look like from a graphical point of view. 

I have been buying the game for 16 years now i think, I had my complains, but now I am in shock as I always respected their communication skills. 

Funny I did not proceed with preordering due to not having any relevant footage on the Steam page.

[flogside]

30 minutes ago, WelshMourinho said:

I will never understand this "they need our support" viewpoint. They provide a product the customer pays for. They aren't doing us a favour. Their reward for a good product is lots of people playing the game and money for a job well done. There's no onus on the customer to buy a poor product as some sort of good will gesture. 

 

They will get my money and my 'support' when I see what the new game is going to look like and whether it matches my idea of a gold game, and not a second before.

Very much agreed! And whilst I don't condone any over the top reactions (it really is only a game after all!) I also am seeing some people suggesting everyone will blindly buy 25 regardless of what they say on here. Well, I most be alone in 100% not buying 25. There is zero chance I'd purchase that game and not much more chance of getting 26. I'll happily come back to the series when a solid, playable and improved game is available thanks!

[latrell]

34 minutes ago, OlivierL said:

Why not release it in september (after window closes) and call it FM25. and the next FM release in september 26 = FM26 ?

 

I like this idea but it is all about the money they SI have bills to pay so they need the revenue.

[ajw10]

2 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

For me this is quite simple, cancel FM25, release a database update plus some nice ME fixes because at the of the day these are the most important aspects and focus on FM 26.

I hate to say it but FM 25 will be a buggy mess.

 

do you think if they cancel FM25 then there will be an FM26?

[Novem9]

44 минуты назад, wazzaflow10 сказал:

if they were a public company there'd be microtransactions on everything. So lets be thankful they aren't.

Actually SI has micropayments in Touch version. And IGE isn't free too.

Some companies like CDPR, Paradox or Capcom are public, but I don't remember a lot of payments. Nintendo is public too. The way of UbiSoft or EA their own choice, a public company doesn't have to be like that

[Malicious Penguin]

49 minutes ago, Matteo3champions said:

I’ve preordered the game 2 minutes after that the release date was announced, and now i’m a bit disappointed that the game has been delayed.

i won’t ask the refund, and i’m happy about my choiche. I think that SI now needs our help, our support and our effort. I buy the game since 2001 and i remember very well the version that was delayed in march 2003. More than 20 years later, we are in the same situation.
 

What i hope now is that they will give us, the best game as possible as they do their best every year. I will be very happy if they turn back about international management. 
 

I’ve read messages here that some of you won’t buy the game in march. I’m talking to you: i’m sure that is a huge lie declared to yourself, and you know it. 

I admire your optimism/naivety. 

I can guarantee you I won't be buying FM25, and I'll try the demo if only to see what it's actually like.

They don't need our support at all, they're not this tiny little team who struggle to make sales. 

[Rodrigogc]

2 minutos atrás, Cricket disse:

That would be awkward in a way, it will mean the superiors didn't check the progress of the game at all.

I can only presume there was something wrong with the code and they have to rewrite a very big chunk of it, in development a bad implementation from start will mean countless hours of rework. 

But it's curious how we really don't have anything, not even a small footage of how the match engine will look like from a graphical point of view. 

I have been buying the game for 16 years now i think, I had my complains, but now I am in shock as I always respected their communication skills. 

Funny I did not proceed with preordering due to not having any relevant footage on the Steam page.

Maybe they didn't check because there must be a specific date for SI to present the first versions of the game to them. SEGA has other businesses to take care of, so it is reasonable that they would set a date for a presentation of the unfinished game so they can evaluate the progress. That is how it works with many companies and its subsidiaries. It sounds even more plausible since this week would mark the first one for the presentations of the roadmap. 

Or maybe they didn't want to show us anything before approval from the superiors because it marks a great shift in the franchise and they don't want to compromise themselves showing something they might change in the future. 

[Slipky]

So what do I think about it? I am very disappointed. And I think the conduct of Sports Interactive was anything but correct. There is no way that you got to seven weeks before the release date and only now you know that the game is not ready! Change is not made in small postponements of a week/two weeks or even a month. This bitter pill thrown at us today would have been a lot easier to digest if they hadn't announced it after a release date was announced and pre-orders had opened. Personally, if I had known in August that the game was postponed to January, I would have had no problem with it beyond the obvious disappointment. I prefer not to be sold stories and presented with a utopian world where everything is fine and everything is as usual when clearly the situation is not like that.

And how do I think we should proceed? As Konami did with the Pro Evolution series - when they saw that they couldn't release an annual version properly, they updated the last game as of that time for free with rosters and transfers and reduced the price of the next game in the series as compensation for the wait. This is what I think should be done here.

[santy001]

@Brother Ben Researchers have been through a full research cycle as we normally would at this time of year, the initial delay didn't really change too much from our side in terms of how we try to get things in place for our contribution to the game. Head Researchers like Robbles will figure out new timelines but we still make ongoing assessments where we feel like in between the main concerted efforts co-ordinated from the Head Researchers and with their guidance. 

[bezzy1970]

If it's not broke then don't **** about with it but just enhance it. Good god Si Games sort it out

[Brentford Alan]

44 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

@santy001

How does this affect things for the researchers?  Will you guys have to resubmit everything nearer the time?

Kudos, as always, to you guys for giving up your time by the way  

 

We have an ongoing live database we can make amendments to until we're locked out for data testing ahead of database updates or full game releases so from that POV I don't think it makes much difference to us, presumably we'll just be working to different deadlines over the coming months. 

Speaking for myself it is disappointing not to be able to see our work 'in the flesh' for a while yet but if it's for the greater good of the game then so be it. Ultimately we all just want a bloody good football management simulator and I'm certain SI will get it right eventually.

[Heywood JaBlowme]

[Colossus]

1 hora atrás, DSYoungEsq disse:

I've read the last 15 pages or so of posts in this thread (from before the announcement by a couple days to now), and I do want to comment on one consistent question: the inability to understand how SI could have been acting as if the game was coming out at the end of Nov., given what we know now.

The answer, I think, is simple: a huge amount of self-denial by those inside the process.

That's not abnormal.  I've been involved in projects in the past that had deadlines, sometimes very ambitious deadlines given what was being attempted.  And it is often the case that those in the middle of trying to complete the project will fool themselves with rationalizations into thinking that they can meet the deadline, even when it becomes clear to any rational outside observer that it can't be done.  It doesn't help here that the level of "doneness" is variable.  I'm sure that whatever 'outside' pressure there was on the development team came in the form of being willing to accept a lesser product, simply to make sure that it got out in a semi-timely fashion.  So, even up to a couple days ago, I can imagine the company pressuring the team to put together something playable, and the team having entered an alternate reality where there are 36 hours in a day, and a sudden change in the trajectory of development is possible.  And in this atmosphere of self-denial and fantasy thinking, the company kept trying to keep things as normal as possible.

I think we should just be thankful that someone, somewhere in the process finally woke up and realized that the whole Nov. 26 thing was such a pipe dream that it needed to be completely scrapped.

But four months of further delay?  That makes me wonder if something major underpinning the whole re-design of the game had to be re-started from close to scratch.  Because that's essentially saying that, where they are now with the game is where they should have been in May or June. 

It's a very common problem in the games industry, people thinking that they are able to get something done and then not being able to do it. Look at Bioware, they were famous for crunching in the last couple of months before a game release and then getting results, they called "Bioware magic"

 

I wonder if that is what happened here. I wonder if Sega forced their hand to release something in November and after getting feedback from the people that went to the studios, they just saw that the game was unreleasable as it was. We can be pretty certain that they have contracts that "force" them to release a new game every new football season, because that is pretty standard in the industry. Releasing just a "new" FM24, I have to imagine, is basically impossible because they must have stopped developing for that what, at least 12 months ago, if not more, and they would have had a skeleton crew to fix any major bugs that came out on 24. Releasing just an update to the Database might be hard too because, once again, the licenses and contracts that they have in place might prevent that. They could maybe, maybe, do that and then just move the calendar one year forward, but I don't have any idea of how complex that might be.

 

Basically, it all comes down, as always with SI, with communication. They have always been very bad with that, and this is just another big example of that. At least is now like with CM4, where they announced the date of the game release at the end of January and said "we don't apologize for this delay". 

[jimbo22]

1 hour ago, Matteo3champions said:

I’ve preordered the game 2 minutes after that the release date was announced, and now i’m a bit disappointed that the game has been delayed.

i won’t ask the refund, and i’m happy about my choiche. I think that SI now needs our help, our support and our effort. I buy the game since 2001 and i remember very well the version that was delayed in march 2003. More than 20 years later, we are in the same situation.
 

What i hope now is that they will give us, the best game as possible as they do their best every year. I will be very happy if they turn back about international management. 
 

I’ve read messages here that some of you won’t buy the game in march. I’m talking to you: i’m sure that is a huge lie declared to yourself, and you know it. 

Sorry my dude, no one needs your support unless they show they deserve it. 

[permaculture]

4 hours ago, ForTheLoveOfTheGame said:

Another thing, how did they host that Women’s night just a few days ago with hundreds of attendees in good faith? 😆

the space had already been booked for months, ok??? seriously though I think they should've maybe mentioned it. the roadmap is no longer on their website at all. 

also, i wonder if they asked those in attendance how they'd feel about a women's football simulator without women's international football. the women's screenshot didn't even have a caps number, so there wasn't even a way of knowing if they planned to include it at a 'viewable' level.

[Colossus]

21 minutos atrás, Cricket disse:

That would be awkward in a way, it will mean the superiors didn't check the progress of the game at all.

I can only presume there was something wrong with the code and they have to rewrite a very big chunk of it, in development a bad implementation from start will mean countless hours of rework. 

But it's curious how we really don't have anything, not even a small footage of how the match engine will look like from a graphical point of view. 

I have been buying the game for 16 years now i think, I had my complains, but now I am in shock as I always respected their communication skills. 

Funny I did not proceed with preordering due to not having any relevant footage on the Steam page.

You really overestimate how much publishers are hands on with the product. I would assume that Sega only taking a look at the game at this point of the year is pretty standard

[flogside]

39 minutes ago, AllyJoseph said:

I feel like this is a hold over from the Collyer brothers. When they were a niche title, with a small company, Eidos publishing them, then I get it. They released top quality games and needed our support.

SI are not a small company any more. They release a single game, every single year, which breaks records every single year. They have an absolute stranglehold over an entire genre, I'd suggest they have a stranglehold over management games in general. They have the power of SEGA helping them out and neigh on 30 years of success funding them. They've abused the good will of players for about 6-7 years now, with no real changes to the game in that time, and a hiddeously outdated graphics/ui/engine. They have been incredibly antagonistic to any and all criticism. They became corporate years ago and the plucky young start up who were passionate about the game they made has been dead for years.

They are not the same company you supported in 2003. Which in of itself isn't the same company that started things off.

Personally I think this post needs pinning! 

No doubt there is some fantastic staff within SI who have and do work their backsides off and have been under a fair amount of pressure lately but SI is not what it once was. Inevitable, I get it. But sad times. The communication and behaviour towards their fanbase is so poor!

I think SI knows they are going to get a backlash from this announcement but will wait for things to quiet down and are banking on the fact you have a very loyal fanbase and no competition so people will buy the game regardless. Unfortunately this is likely very true and those that dont purchase 25 will still be very much in the minority. SI know this.

 

Edited Thursday at 19:48 by flogside

[wazzaflow10]

18 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Actually SI has micropayments in Touch version. And IGE isn't free too.

None of them are core gameplay though and as you've noted not in the full fat version. The IGE doesn't affect your game at all and touch doesn't lock things out if you don't buy them last I checked. If they were needing to increase stock prices you could imagine having paywalled leagues or regions after buying the engine. Or put each patch behind a DLC for winter updates.

Paradox is the king of expensive DLCs on every game and core mechanics are locked behind that DLC.

I don't play a lot of capcom or nintendo games because I mainly stick to PC.

Ubisoft, EA, and Epic are the real evil ones for MTX. I hate those most of those games with a passion now. Everything is geared towards MTX.

[Fat_Frank8]

On 04/09/2024 at 14:47, Fat_Frank8 said:

Is the latest development update a joke? Release date pushed back, no international management and the weight had to be removed ()to accomodate Women’s football and their fluctuating weights. You’d think it would be easier to just disregard the apparent weight fluctuation than removing weight completely. The worst CM/FM since CM4 incoming. 

One more time.

They announce the game releases in three months, one month later they push the release date back three more months. That’s nothing but clueless. As a software development professional, had anything like that happened in my area of work, heads would definitely roll. 

Edited Thursday at 19:50 by Fat_Frank8

[Sheriff7]

They making it more ridiculous from month to month. Only laughing is a normal response to this situation. 

[StevehFC]

More likely see GTA 6 being released before FM25. 

[Fat_Frank8]

4 minutes ago, Sheriff7 said:

They making it more ridiculous from month to month. Only laughing is a normal response to this situation. 

Agree. It’s nothing but embarassing.