FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[anagain]

Have there been any exploding heads yet?

I think SI are doing the right thing.

Remember, people, that many of you actually suggested SI delay the release of FM25 until the release timeframe of FM26 to give them more time to make it perfect. If you said that then don't throw your toys out of the pram at a delay until March.

This will make for a better game.

[Tummyowl]

It's just left a very bitter taste in my mouth after the release of the trailer, roadmap, and taking customers money for pre orders... knowing it would not be ready (in fact, it was still months away from being 'ready').

I love Football Manager, have even had positive interactions with Miles, I largely have never had complaints with Sports Interactive, but this feels really predatory/taking advantage of your audience. It's left a really disappointing vibe.

I have absolutely no issue with delaying a game, I want it to be the best it can be, but taking money and knowing this is low key not a good look. I know it will eventually be great.

In fact, I would argue that most people are just a bit deflated about the delay, but ultimately do not mind in the long run, but what has left a really bad taste is taking pre orders.

Edited Thursday at 20:02 by Tummyowl

[madeirabhoy]

I only preordered it last night. Was thinking it’s great timing with some long flights a week after its release. 
 

I’ll be taking a refund from steam tonight. Not because I’m in a huff and not because I’m never going to buy it again but because I genuinely can’t see it being released in March as a full price game. They can’t. Sales will be almost nonexistent.  
 

they need to either stick out a data update for a small charge this year and move onto fm 26 or release in March with a budget price (and maybe purposely pull some features so as not to affect 26 sales. 

[LHurlz]

2 minutes ago, anagain said:

Have there been any exploding heads yet?

I think SI are doing the right thing.

Remember, people, that many of you actually suggested SI delay the release of FM25 until the release timeframe of FM26 to give them more time to make it perfect. If you said that then don't throw your toys out of the pram at a delay until March.

This will make for a better game.

I think the expectation was that they delay the game in the first instance. Rather than inviting preorders accompanied with some farcical roadmap.

[jlboybeamer]

Sports interactive has made FM23-FM24 pretty much featureless with the excuse of FM25 development. 

Seems like lazy development has caught up with them. I mean just look at all the countless unfixed legacy bugs in previous FM's. Now they're struggling to actually develop a game , since unlike before they just added things on top of previous versions , now they can't properly develop from the ground up due to not actually understanding what was going on in the game's code in the first place , hence all the unfixed bugs etc.

Pretty scummy move to offer pre order a week ago knowing full well the state of the game as well.

[Fat_Frank8]

1 minute ago, anagain said:

I think SI are doing the right thing.

They probably don’t have any choice. The point is they should have known this for months. What they’re doing now is unprofessional and inexcusable for a company wanting to be taken seriously.

[Mobius]

You guys must have known the game wasn't fit to release when you sent out that trailer and roadmap and asked for preorders... like 10 days ago. That's so shady. No wonder the trailer had no in-game footage.

Hasn't this move to a new engine been worked on for years? That's why FM24 wasn't much different, because the focus was on the big move?

International Football & other basic features we've had for years, removed to help meet deadlines and here we are? Less content, later than usual. Interesting tactic!

So march 2025 now, and what sort of state will it be in? 6 months until the first proper patch? Transfers will be out of date in a few months. Still, I suppose the community will tidy the game up once it's finally released, as usual. Frankly I wonder how much worse things would be if SI didn't have thousands of unpaid workers doing their research/data/transfer updates. Imagine if they actually had to pay people for that work. 

What was actually shown at this ladies press conference the other day? And the Tokyo Games Exhibition the week before that?! 

I'll let my daughter know she won't be playing women's football in FM this Christmas then....

[Tummyowl]

Just now, LHurlz said:

I think the expectation was that they delay the game in the first instance. Rather than inviting preorders accompanied with some farcical roadmap.

Sorry I edited my post, because I hit submit by mistake.

I don't think there are many people who have an issue with the delay, we want the game to be the best it can be. A delay is ok. Taking pre orders for a game that you know you're going to have to delay, and relating information such as the road map just leaves a really bad taste for a dedicated fan base. Be honest with us.

[irish kopite]

58 minutes ago, Cricket said:

I don't want to sound rude... but is there even a game at this point ? I haven't seen anything related to match engine... not even a picture.... 

I know the database is there and menus are there, but i can do the menus in Figma as design in around one hour... however if you are gonna delay... at least show us something related to the match engine, as the primary reason for the game update was new engine, which is related to the match improvements.

No hate intended, just want to see that there is actually progress on what we were promised.

 

 

Given the behaviour of SI over the past few weeks in particular, I think your question isn't as outrageous or, dare I say, as thin foil hat as would have previously been the case.

I mean the studio director took to social media last week sprouting absolute nonsense about road maps without dates beyond week 1, knowing full well he hadn't a game to sell and then took peoples' money for it.

People justifiably start asking questions like yours when credibility and goodwill is lost.

[Mobius]

So will the game still be full price? Is March the new release cycle? Will 2 full-priced FMs be released next year?

Edited Thursday at 20:06 by Mobius

[Fat_Frank8]

3 minutes ago, Mobius said:

You guys must have known the game wasn't fit to release when you sent out that trailer and roadmap and asked for preorders... like 10 days ago. That's so shady. No wonder the trailer had no in-game footage.

You couldn’t make it up. Absolute shambles. 

[sufcdan]

How soon could a data update realistically be released for FM24?

[Mobius]

Just now, sufcdan said:

How soon could a data update realistically be released for FM24?

By the community? A few hours. SortitoutSi and others have supported the game for free, for decades.

By SI? Well, they won't do that. And if they did, they'd say it was being released on a certain day then delay it, then remove stuff from it.

Then delay it again

[Double0Seven]

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/future-football-manager

I mean wasnt fm22 supposed to be the one they wanted originally? So the delay is half a year of course but it was in the works since 22 and should have been 23/24/25. Getting quite some time. 

[Tummyowl]

They are not going to release an update for Football Manager 24. I just do not see it. They are not going to offer big discounts on Football Manager 25/26. I just do not see it. The release schedule might change for 26, but then usual service will resume.

[Tummyowl]

Just now, Mobius said:

By the community? A few hours. SortitoutSi and others have supported the game for free, for decades.

By SI? Well, they won't do that. And if they did, they'd say it was being released on a certain day then delay it, then remove stuff from it.

*

Then delay it again

After taking money for pre orders knowing it will be delayed again*

Fixed.

[ajw10]

10 minutes ago, anagain said:

Have there been any exploding heads yet?

I think SI are doing the right thing.

Remember, people, that many of you actually suggested SI delay the release of FM25 until the release timeframe of FM26 to give them more time to make it perfect. If you said that then don't throw your toys out of the pram at a delay until March.

This will make for a better game.

I don't think people suggested that SI should release a bland game in FM24 (with the promise of a new game in FM25), then pretend that FM25 was fine, then remove international management, then say that it'll be slightly delayed but here's a roadmap of what's coming, before 10 days later delaying the game by 4 months and removing the roadmap. Oh, whilst accepting pre-orders.

If people suggested that, then they cannot moan. Anyone else is allowed to moan.

[jmlima]

2 minutes ago, irish kopite said:

...

People justifiably start asking questions like yours when credibility and goodwill is lost.

What we've seen of this game, mock-ups, is there with what the White brothers did back in the day. Taking pre-orders with nothing to shown for them, same. I mean, the White took donations, the pre-order system did not yet exist. Having said that, there's a substantial difference between your average scammer and SI. SI have a track record and are owned by a corporation. That gives them some clout and gives us a certain degree of confidence that they are developing something and there's some reasonable expectation something will appear at some point next year.

Of course, despite all of that, their customers have every reason to be very wary, not only of any further promises vis-a-vis release dates, as well as to the quality of what they are doing, even their competence for the task they undertook. In a non-monopoly situation, they would have to eat a lot of humble pie and start pampering their customers to bring them back on board. As it is, they are guaranteed a certain level of sales, which may be disappointing to shareholders, but still far more than they would have if they had any serious competition. This in turn means they can continue (and will almost certainly do, if previous experience tells us anything) with their cavalier attitude.

Anywhoo, moving on. Very definitively, nothing to see here.

 

[HighFlyingDwarf]

9 minutes ago, Mobius said:

I'll let my daughter know she won't be playing women's football in FM this Christmas then....

[Nonlondoner]

If it's not ready then it's disappointing news for those of you who were going to buy it.
I'd already decided to skip FM25 because the new version but based on 12 months of player feedback will be a far better game.

I'd be happy with a season 2024/25 data update for FM24, obviously, but I think that should be something SI should be looking into doing, though commercially it may hit FM25 sales, so they'll probably leave thinks like that to the modding underworld.

[Ti Ago]

5 horas atrás, Fausto disse:

im a bit sad , i wanted to play FM25 so bad , but looks like its not even close to finish , i remember Grand turismo was like 3 years delay but then the product was at high standards, i think this is the start of FM 25 no (2025) so i think the will release FM 25 mid next year and a year or more FM 26(maybe not real 2026) so we just add number to FM 25 , 26 , 27 but that i dont think will mean the years anymore

Wasjust thinking the same 

[danmcconnell1]

22 minutes ago, anagain said:

I think SI are doing the right thing.

Remember, people, that many of you actually suggested SI delay the release of FM25 until the release timeframe of FM26 to give them more time to make it perfect. If you said that then don't throw your toys out of the pram at a delay until March.

This will make for a better game.

They have done the right thing, eventually, however the path to get to this point has been littered with mistakes. It's so poor to release so much promo and take the money from pre-orders knowing full well the game was nowhere near going to be fit for purpose on an already delayed release date.

It's a principle thing for a lot of people (me included) and will more than likely skip FM25 altogether now after this **** show.

[afailed10]

25 minutos atrás, Tummyowl disse:

It's just left a very bitter taste in my mouth after the release of the trailer, roadmap, and taking customers money for pre orders... knowing it would not be ready (in fact, it was still months away from being 'ready').

I love Football Manager, have even had positive interactions with Miles, I largely have never had complaints with Sports Interactive, but this feels really predatory/taking advantage of your audience. It's left a really disappointing vibe.

I have absolutely no issue with delaying a game, I want it to be the best it can be, but taking money and knowing this is low key not a good look. I know it will eventually be great.

In fact, I would argue that most people are just a bit deflated about the delay, but ultimately do not mind in the long run, but what has left a really bad taste is taking pre orders.

I’ve been getting bad vibes from SI since what? FM19? When they started marketing the wrong features and stopped improving the core game.

I’d be lying if I said I trust SI as a developer for the last few years.

[ajw10]

3 minutes ago, danmcconnell1 said:

They have done the right thing, eventually, however the path to get to this point has been littered with mistakes. It's so poor to release so much promo and take the money from pre-orders knowing full well the game was nowhere near going to be fit for purpose on an already delayed release date.

It's a principle thing for a lot of people (me included) and will more than likely skip FM25 altogether now after this **** show.

the biggest reason for me buying FM25 was the introduction of women's football. I almost certainly would have skipped it otherwise.

However, if SI think that lots of people will pay full price for FM25 AND 26 then they might be in for a shock

[ostkiz]

Football Manager 2025 - The Fall Edition

[anagain]

12 minutes ago, danmcconnell1 said:

They have done the right thing, eventually, however the path to get to this point has been littered with mistakes. It's so poor to release so much promo and take the money from pre-orders knowing full well the game was nowhere near going to be fit for purpose on an already delayed release date.

It's a principle thing for a lot of people (me included) and will more than likely skip FM25 altogether now after this **** show.

Many games allow pre orders months and months in advance with not even a release date.

Having a preorder button is not a "you must press this".

If you skip FM25 can those who do promise not to come on here and grumble? 

[podunkboy]

Actually, this works well for me - I can finally get into by hundreds of Steam games I've never played because I was always busy with FM, might even play Baldur's Gate III now that everyone else has already completed it. Assuming that they'll still push out FM 26 in late fall (and restore everything they've cut from FM 25), I'll probably wait for '26 even though I've bought every edition for 14 years. 

[flogside]

3 minutes ago, anagain said:

Many games allow pre orders months and months in advance with not even a release date.

Having a preorder button is not a "you must press this".

If you skip FM25 can those who do promise not to come on here and grumble? 

Yes Miles, sure thing! 

[silentwars]

1 minute ago, flogside said:

Yes Miles, sure thing! 

There's always at least one on here who wants to defend SI no matter what ... it's almost like a cult 

[armbi]

39 minutes ago, Tummyowl said:

I have absolutely no issue with delaying a game, I want it to be the best it can be, but taking money and knowing this is low key not a good look

it's just business as usual, if it had been announced 2 months ago that the game would be delayed by half a year, many people probably wouldn't have preordered. What's more, it's an excellent move in the marketing strategy, because by releasing the game in March they probably won't release another one in the same year, and the fans will already be so hungry for the game that they will be satisfied with improving FM25. I have written about it several times: a monopoly provides enormous opportunities when selling a product

[anagain]

28 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

I don't think people suggested that SI should release a bland game in FM24 (with the promise of a new game in FM25), then pretend that FM25 was fine, then remove international management, then say that it'll be slightly delayed but here's a roadmap of what's coming, before 10 days later delaying the game by 4 months and removing the roadmap. Oh, whilst accepting pre-orders.

If people suggested that, then they cannot moan. Anyone else is allowed to moan.

Maybe, with the delay, they'll be able to reintroduce international management and come up with a new way of doing shouts.

I don't think anyone but SI knows the ins and outs of what has happened with development, so making speculations is probably fruitless.

Never said anyone can't moan. I've done plenty of it myself, and about a lot of things, over the years. I just think the collective exploding of heads is very extreme for a game.

Is it ideal? No. I was actually looking forward to FM25. I was never too fussed about the need for better graphics. I was never dead against it though, so when SI said they were doing it I was excited to see what they'd do.

But I do think a delay is the best option for the betterment of the game. Could the way they've gone about announcing things have been better? Possibly, but like I say, none of us know what the actual situation is in the studio. What pressure Sega put on them etc. For all we know, Sega wanted release and Miles argued to delay.

Wouldn't be the first publisher to push for release when a game isn't ready.

And games take time to make. They're often pushed out early when they really need 6 months in the oven.

Look at Cities Skylines 2. That's been out a year and probably still shouldn't be any more than early access.

Updating the graphics of FM was never going to be a small thing, but it's what people demanded.

 

[flogside]

1 minute ago, silentwars said:

There's always at least one on here who wants to defend SI no matter what ... it's almost like a cult 

Yeah I'm all for not going overboard with everything but come on, SI are big boys and girls and can take (rightfully so in this case) criticism from it's fanbase. 

[bobbyb12345]

The trailer is actually much more fitting now.

[aiston]

GOOD. This should have been pretty much every new release the past 3 or 4 years as well.

Rather see a better product released, instead of rushed out again.

[ajw10]

1 minute ago, anagain said:

Maybe, with the delay, they'll be able to reintroduce international management and come up with a new way of doing shouts.

I don't think anyone but SI knows the ins and outs of what has happened with development, so making speculations is probably fruitless.

Never said anyone can't moan. I've done plenty of it myself, and about a lot of things, over the years. I just think the collective exploding of heads is very extreme for a game.

Is it ideal? No. I was actually looking forward to FM25. I was never too fussed about the need for better graphics. I was never dead against it though, so when SI said they were doing it I was excited to see what they'd do.

But I do think a delay is the best option for the betterment of the game. Could the way they've gone about announcing things have been better? Possibly, but like I say, none of us know what the actual situation is in the studio. What pressure Sega put on them etc. For all we know, Sega wanted release and Miles argued to delay.

Wouldn't be the first publisher to push for release when a game isn't ready.

And games take time to make. They're often pushed out early when they really need 6 months in the oven.

Look at Cities Skylines 2. That's been out a year and probably still shouldn't be any more than early access.

Updating the graphics of FM was never going to be a small thing, but it's what people demanded.

 

this is a football game though, it's important when it's released. If you release a game towards the end of the season, then you might as well not bother.

Blaming the customers for SI wanting to improve the graphics is absurd. SI are a company who make their own decisions, you're making out like they have been bullied into this

And yes, we don't know the full story, but regardless I think it's more than fair to question SI. If people have lost faith in them and feel like they need their trust won back, then that's absolutely fair.

A reminder that SI are not a charity. No one in here owes them anything.

[flogside]

Just now, anagain said:

Maybe, with the delay, they'll be able to reintroduce international management and come up with a new way of doing shouts.

I don't think anyone but SI knows the ins and outs of what has happened with development, so making speculations is probably fruitless.

Never said anyone can't moan. I've done plenty of it myself, and about a lot of things, over the years. I just think the collective exploding of heads is very extreme for a game.

Is it ideal? No. I was actually looking forward to FM25. I was never too fussed about the need for better graphics. I was never dead against it though, so when SI said they were doing it I was excited to see what they'd do.

But I do think a delay is the best option for the betterment of the game. Could the way they've gone about announcing things have been better? Possibly, but like I say, none of us know what the actual situation is in the studio. What pressure Sega put on them etc. For all we know, Sega wanted release and Miles argued to delay.

Wouldn't be the first publisher to push for release when a game isn't ready.

And games take time to make. They're often pushed out early when they really need 6 months in the oven.

Look at Cities Skylines 2. That's been out a year and probably still shouldn't be any more than early access.

Updating the graphics of FM was never going to be a small thing, but it's what people demanded.

 

Graphics are not what "people" demanded, like you are suggesting an overwhelming majority did so? The move to unity is not via a need and want of the fanbase, it's entirely an SI decision to help them seemingly move more and more towards a more console style game. 

You seem to be missing the point a lot. The majority of people on here fully agree that a delay is what is needed. But this should have been decided ages ago. The communication, as always, from SI has been shambolic and a lot of people are aggrieved that SI appear to want to release two full games in one calendar year and one of them right at the end of a season? And expect everyone to be fine with that, no questions asked. 

Stop trying to make this out like it's the games fans fault for the delays because we "demanded" certain things. Seriously!?

[ajw10]

also, do people think the delay will make FM25 the most polished version?

They are delaying the game because it's an absolute mess. At best it'll be released like a normal game is released in November. Plenty of bugs and nowhere near the final version. At worst it'll be CM4.

It's not being delayed because SI want to make sure it's perfect, it's being delayed because the game is quite literally unplayable.

[Zoolok42]

Publishing the nonsensical roadmap and opening preorders was probably the publisher's call, not the developer's. The delay is because SI Games managed to convince them to do so in the nick of time. That would be my guess, anyway, though I don't see Miles' name on the delay JPEG, so maybe it was the other way around? I guess we will never know.

But the delay is a good decision ultimately, much better than releasing a mess they would potentially never recover from. If they deliver a good game in March, no one will even remember this, what's remembered in the end is how well you did, not how long it took you.

If possible, maybe they can make an early access or an open beta, I'm sure a lot of people here would be happy to help with testing and bugfixing.

[Fat_Frank8]

10 minutes ago, anagain said:

For all we know, Sega wanted release and Miles argued to delay.

Yes that’s probably it, it is someone elses fault. 

[Sir_Liam]

Delaying a game that is not ready is the right thing, there's been a number of signs that this was a strong possibility and I just wish SI were more honest with themselves and us before today.  Allowing pre-orders was a very poor move and not fair on fans of the game who have been very loyal.

The Roadmap released last week with very little information and no dates further suggested SI were buying themselves as much time as possible, as did Miles's daft explanation for the lack of dates.

I've decided I will skip FM2025 as a result of this delay as I don't want to wait months to start a new save game and I lack faith in SI to deliver something that I'll enjoy even in March.  I didn't like FM24 so that means a 3rd year of FM23 for me.

Edited Thursday at 21:03 by Sir_Liam

[anagain]

11 minutes ago, silentwars said:

There's always at least one on here who wants to defend SI no matter what ... it's almost like a cult 

Give over. I'm not a lackey. I just don't lose my rag over a game. Are things 100% ideal? No, clearly not.

But I'd rather give SI the benefit of the doubt than ram my fists down their throats at every opportunity. They're people, same as you or me, and deserve respect, not a public flogging because a huge update, that the people demanded, is taking longer than expected.

[eXistenZ]

On 04/09/2024 at 18:45, eXistenZ said:

More red flags than a Stalin birthday party.

 

huh

[ThanatosAFC]

I am sure by January they will announce that they will skipp this years FM, no point of releasing a game when the football season is about to end.

[Fat_Frank8]

16 minutes ago, anagain said:

Maybe, with the delay, they'll be able to reintroduce international management and come up with a new way of doing shouts.

I hope you don’t genuinely believe that. You think they push an already announced release back three months because the current state is unplayable and then start throwing new features in? 

[Lempicka]

March 2025...

 

[ajw10]

2 minutes ago, ThanatosAFC said:

I am sure by January they will announce that they will skipp this years FM, no point of releasing a game when the football season is about to end.

they literally cannot do this

[ThanatosAFC]

Just now, ajw10 said:

they literally cannot do this

They can't but they will 

[Fat_Frank8]

4 minutes ago, ThanatosAFC said:

I am sure by January they will announce that they will skipp this years FM, no point of releasing a game when the football season is about to end.

I think they’ll announce it in january, cancel it in february followed by someone dropping in here telling us it was the right decision and it probably wasn’t SI’s fault. 

[CaptainSa]

1 hour ago, Slipky said:

As Konami did with the Pro Evolution series - when they saw that they couldn't release an annual version properly, they updated the last game as of that time for free with rosters and transfers and reduced the price of the next game in the series as compensation for the wait. This is what I think should be done here.

The move to eFootball had nothing to do with Konami realising they couldn't do an annual version, and everything to do with Konami's ongoing pursuit of pachinko money and neglecting the video game side of their business.

[andu1]

It's not going to be cancelled ... lol

They spent too much money on the game to cancel it...