FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Lord Rowell]

EDIT - I have put this in this "development thread" but also I think it deserves its own thread.

Mods, if you feel this isn''t appropriate here and want to delete / lock, its fine, though please message me, but I'll understand. I know your job is horrendously difficult right now

OK I'm going to throw necessary petrol onto the fire here and take on some things that have been in the develpment thread, throughout and recently.

First, for reference and you'll have seen from my posts throughout, I am 100% behind Women's football in FM. I have always supported it and am critical of SI / SEGA and personally Miles Jacobsen (I've said this) for not doing it sooner. I also am appalled by the mysogyny on here generally, and with respect to the blame for the FM25 delay on women's football and the alleged "woke mentality" and women.

That said, what if there's truth to this?
i.e. the delay is because there's issues with the women's DB, ME, other issues and so on?
Lets just say this is true.

SO WHAT?

• If there were delays in CM4 because of the move to visual circles on a screen that's the thing.
• If there had been delays in FM2005 because of the move from CM to FM, that's the thing.
• If there had been delays in FM2009 because of move to 3D imaging, that's the thing.
• If there had been delays from about IIRC FM2014 when collision detection became a thing, that's the thing.
• If there had been delays in FM19 because of the shift to significantly new tactics including genenpress, that's the thing.

I could go on every time a significant new thing / evolution was announced.
Furthermore - we've had "reassurances" that SI did not reassign resources to women's football...

Well for my two-penneth worth. If I were Miles Jacobsen (I clearly am not) and I'm in charge of SI, I would, with as always a budget, to launch a new feature as significant as this, be MASSIVELY REASSIGNING RESOURCES i.e. to women's football.

I think the supposed reassurances SI have given re. not reassigning resources are wrong in terms of approach. Whether they have done or not is moot - its their right to choose and should not be reassuring the community forums over this and indulging the complainers. On the contrary, I would suggest reassigning resources is a right thing to do.

I DON'T KNOW why SI have delayed FM25. I've no idea. I think its more likely Unity tbh but that's not the point.

But to anyone who says, its because of women's football, I'd say to SI, if it is, say it, take it head-on. Its absolutly fine.

If its the reason or whatever other reason, accountability ends with SI / SEGA, not women's football and frankly, they should have got their timelines better. To re-state, if there is blame, its on the business itself and blaming women's football is unacceptable

[G81]

4 hours ago, mackem10 said:

Crikey. 

 

 

Why crikey? It's a reasonable, measured, factual statement.

[Petra90]

I have to say this is quite disastrous, seriously did not expect a company as mature as SI to make such a mistake in their development schedule.

I think that several years of comfortable releases with only minor improvements to the game left SI complacent; they clearly were unprepared and shellshocked to tackle such a substantial change like migrating the game to Unity.

Well, if FM25 must be delayed to be ready, that's fine. The real issue is that the communication has been quite poor from the start.

Almost no information, announcing only removed features, posting the roadmaps in the last day of September, mock-ups instead of real screenshots from the game, and no substantial content. SI really need to improve this side of their company for their next releases, why must they be so secretive? Why not engage with the community and be more transparent about the game? Paradox Interactive does this very well with their weekly dev diaries. They engage with the community posting news and even receiving feedback and ideas pre-launch.

[phnompenhandy]

Is this a feasible scenario: FM26 will be released in August/September and will largely be a major update. It will be FREE to those who purchased FM25 before the end of April? That would cost SI/Sega a fair whack, but not as much as losing millions of customers permanently.

[bezzy1970]

6 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

EDIT - I have put this in this "development thread" but also I think it deserves its own thread.

Mods, if you feel this isn''t appropriate here and want to delete / lock, its fine, though please message me, but I'll understand. I know your job is horrendously difficult right now

OK I'm going to throw necessary petrol onto the fire here and take on some things that have been in the develpment thread, throughout and recently.

First, for reference and you'll have seen from my posts throughout, I am 100% behind Women's football in FM. I have always supported it and am critical of SI / SEGA and personally Miles Jacobsen (I've said this) for not doing it sooner. I also am appalled by the mysogyny on here generally, and with respect to the blame for the FM25 delay on women's football and the alleged "woke mentality" and women.

That said, what if there's truth to this?
i.e. the delay is because there's issues with the women's DB, ME, other issues and so on?
Lets just say this is true.

SO WHAT?

• If there were delays in CM4 because of the move to visual circles on a screen that's the thing.
• If there had been delays in FM2005 because of the move from CM to FM, that's the thing.
• If there had been delays in FM2009 because of move to 3D imaging, that's the thing.
• If there had been delays from about IIRC FM2014 when collision detection became a thing, that's the thing.
• If there had been delays in FM19 because of the shift to significantly new tactics including genenpress, that's the thing.

I could go on every time a significant new thing / evolution was announced.
Furthermore - we've had "reassurances" that SI did not reassign resources to women's football...

Well for my two-penneth worth. If I were Miles Jacobsen (I clearly am not) and I'm in charge of SI, I would, with as always a budget, to launch a new feature as significant as this, be MASSIVELY REASSIGNING RESOURCES i.e. to women's football.

I think the supposed reassurances SI have given re. not reassigning resources are wrong in terms of approach. Whether they have done or not is moot - its their right to choose and should not be reassuring the community forums over this and indulging the complainers. On the contrary, I would suggest reassigning resources is a right thing to do.

I DON'T KNOW why SI have delayed FM25. I've no idea. I think its more likely Unity tbh but that's not the point.

But to anyone who says, its because of women's football, I'd say to SI, if it is, say it, take it head-on. Its absolutly fine.

If its the reason or whatever other reason, accountability ends with SI / SEGA, not women's football and frankly, they should have got their timelines better. To re-state, if there is blame, its on the business itself and blaming women's football is unacceptable

 

Good grief,

 

I am behind womens football 100% and I go to watch Nottingham Forest Ladies on a regular basis but lets keep it in the spirit of what it is and thats a computer game for entertainment and like I've said to you before the Game doesn't need to be a 100% replica of the real world. Fine lets have womens football in FM but lets do it right and do it justice and take time with it and again like I've said to you before besides having a completely new match engine perhaps adding womens football and like you said before "taking the knee" is a complication a step to far for this season.

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, Petra90 said:

I have to say this is quite disastrous, seriously did not expect a company as mature as SI to make such a mistake in their development schedule.

Far bigger, and far more "mature" companies have made far bigger mistakes in their development schedule than this.  That's not diminishing the problem, as I'm sure SI are disappointed enough in themselves, but development isn't Top Trumps where the biggest number is best.  You can be the richest company employing the best in enormous numbers, and things are still very likely to go wrong.  That's why at these companies they'll often hire fleets of people where their sole role is to react to production issues.  

[Federico]

I remember the amount of people literally begging to set the FM release date in March so to have a more stable, bug-free and patch-free product.

Aren't you happy now?

Edited Saturday at 06:34 by Federico

[DP]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Far bigger, and far more "mature" companies have made far bigger mistakes in their development schedule than this.  That's not diminishing the problem, as I'm sure SI are disappointed enough in themselves, but development isn't Top Trumps where the biggest number is best.  You can be the richest company employing the best in enormous numbers, and things are still very likely to go wrong.  That's why at these companies they'll often hire fleets of people where their sole role is to react to production issues.  

It would be absolutely acceptable if they didn’t give a roadmap and open pre orders a week beforehand, ya know, context. 

[armbi]

8 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

f there is blame, its on the business itself and blaming women's football is unacceptable

Why is it unacceptable???? If the criticism is rational and factual, there is no need to reduce it to a sexual dispute. The problem is that many people find any critical opinion containing a feminine element offensive. While maintaining the rules of civil discussion, any criticism should be acceptable.

[Stevmon]

Regarding the delay until march 2025;

At this stage I would rather see the game released August/September and then release an official update 1-2 weeks after the summer transfer window is shut.

Im not going to spend much time playing FM in the spring/summer. Also prefer to have updates leagues etc.

[forameuss]

20 minutes ago, DP said:

It would be absolutely acceptable if they didn’t give a roadmap and open pre orders a week beforehand, ya know, context. 

Because every project killing issue is always known weeks in advance of course.

[akkm]

Hey mods

I know you're taking down overly critical posts about those complaining about women's football but to be consistent in your moderation there's 2/3 posts above which are aggressively critical of those critical of women's football that should be taken down. 

They surely contravene the rules of having a go at people and shouldn't be allowed stay up...plus despite some concluding the longer aggressive post is factual...it clearly isn't and is misleading in itself.

Up until that the thread has been quite reasonable given the circumstances of what SI has done.

Ps I accept you've have to hide some posts and fair enough

[Colonel Tigh]

Game gets delayed til March? Seen it all before. No worries. I knew moving to a new engine would cause problems and delays (CM4 veteran here) Long term wise the game will be better for it even if it takes a few games on the new engine. 

But opening up pre orders last week was very poor.  Out of everything that’s rubbed me up the wrong way 

[Dave C]

11 hours ago, BJG123 said:

But if you chose to allocate funding to ensuring a smooth transition to Unity ahead of women's football, you wouldn't hire the same people. 

 

I run large software product teams, if I hire a bunch of data scientists to improve our machine learning capabilities at the expense of cloud architects and our fundamental infrastructure falls over as a result, that's on me and I made a bad decision to focus on something new ahead of fixing fundamentals. It's not that I put the data scientists on the wrong project, its that I messed up allocating budgets. 

Researchers do nearly all work for free though. So you can’t reallocate them elsewhere.

[endtime]

just close this thread until some new information is available, it's devolved into pointless sniping

[Fat_Frank8]

14 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Because every project killing issue is always known weeks in advance of course.

When you release a roadmap and start taking pre orders, you should have made sure there aren’t any ”project killing” issues before. 

[jmlima]

2 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

... That would cost SI/Sega a fair whack, but not as much as losing millions of customers permanently.

See, that's precisely the thing. Whatever they do they will never be 'losing millions of customers permanently'. The only way that will happen is if they a) stop working or b) someone came up between now and next year with a serious competitor. At this point, neither will happen so, they have carte blanche. I mean, they have been getting away with charging full price for a db update and some cosmetic changes that may (or not) do something behind the scenes (ahem, weight).

[akkm]

20 minutes ago, Dave C said:

Researchers do nearly all work for free though. So you can’t reallocate them elsewhere.

It's not exclusively researchers working on women's football though surely

[DP]

16 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Because every project killing issue is always known weeks in advance of course.

Come on  

We were getting wireframe’s instead of screenshots, TBA on a roadmap. They’ve said sorry, you’re defending the indefensible. 

[Cricket]

5 minutes ago, endtime said:

just close this thread until some new information is available, it's devolved into pointless sniping

At least something got developed, anyway you are right. Good luck SI and maybe some small updates regarding your progress will calm down the waves.

[andu1]

46 minutes ago, Federico said:

I remember the amount of people literally begging to set the FM release date in March so to have a more stable, bug-free and patch-free product.

Aren't you happy now?

Exactly what i was thinking when they announced the delay.

[santy001]

15 minutes ago, akkm said:

Hey mods

I know you're taking down overly critical posts about those complaining about women's football but to be consistent in your moderation there's 2/3 posts above which are aggressively critical of those critical of women's football that should be taken down. 

They surely contravene the rules of having a go at people and shouldn't be allowed stay up...plus despite some concluding the longer aggressive post is factual...it clearly isn't and is misleading in itself.

Up until that the thread has been quite reasonable given the circumstances of what SI has done.

Ps I accept you've have to hide some posts and fair enough

Feel free to report any posts you're offended by and we'll review them in due course. We currently have quite a few on hand by virtue of not being here 24/7.

[andu1]

15 minutes ago, akkm said:

Hey mods

I know you're taking down overly critical posts about those complaining about women's football but to be consistent in your moderation there's 2/3 posts above which are aggressively critical of those critical of women's football that should be taken down. 

They surely contravene the rules of having a go at people and shouldn't be allowed stay up...plus despite some concluding the longer aggressive post is factual...it clearly isn't and is misleading in itself.

Up until that the thread has been quite reasonable given the circumstances of what SI has done.

Ps I accept you've have to hide some posts and fair enough

I agree that people calling other people mysognistic should have their posts removed.

[ham_aka_stam]

Its ok to agree with or disagree with any feature of the game. But anyone using abuse to so, or descends into sexist/ableist comments, will be hidden and subject to further review.

The mods cannot see everything, especially given the rate of posts in here, so rather than extend any argument, please report, but bear in mind how busy we are right now pls.

 

[jcw163]

Close this thread lads please it's filled to the brim with *****

[Dave C]

37 minutes ago, akkm said:

It's not exclusively researchers working on women's football though surely

TownForThePrem said most of the work on women’s football was on research. BJG123 replied and said that resource could be reallocated. I’m pointing out that’s not true.

 

Edited Saturday at 07:52 by Dave C

[akkm]

20 minutes ago, Dave C said:

TownForThePrem said most of the work on women’s football was on research. You replied and said that resource could be reallocated. I’m pointing out that’s not true.

 

Well I didn't saying anything about reallocating resources so what u said isn't true lol

[Dave C]

14 minutes ago, akkm said:

Well I didn't saying anything about reallocating resources so what u said isn't true lol

Sorry, assumed you were the guy I was originally quoting, but you’re not. I’ve corrected my error.

 Point stands - I was addressing the idea such resources could be reallocated. They cannot. And that matter of fact is as far into this debate as I’m going.

Edited Saturday at 07:53 by Dave C

[santy001]

There's a lot of chaff in this thread for sure, but generally speaking SI do like to have feedback on a matter centralised where they can review it in a concerted effort rather than it being scattered haphazardly across the whole forums. If it reaches a point where there is no utility in this thread then maybe it gets locked but as much as some people are pushing things too far in some posts the people at SI are also aware that at a time like this taking on board the negative feelings is something that needs to be done too. 

[spursfan]

On 11/10/2024 at 02:53, Brother Ben said:

FM people are unique because for a very high percentage its the only game they play.  It's probably an unhealthy obsession to be fair, but it is what it is.

I'm definitely getting FM25.
I'm not getting CIV7, mainly because I've bought CIV6 last year **and haven't played it** yet lol.

On 11/10/2024 at 03:19, Malicious Penguin said:

They don't need our support at all, they're not this tiny little team who struggle to make sales. 

Not tiny compared to whom, EA? Can't rate Championship teams alongside UCL teams, seriously. 

[anagain]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

I remember the amount of people literally begging to set the FM release date in March so to have a more stable, bug-free and patch-free product.

Aren't you happy now?

Don't confuse people now, Federico.

[anagain]

1 hour ago, DP said:

It would be absolutely acceptable if they didn’t give a roadmap and open pre orders a week beforehand, ya know, context. 

So, because they offered a roadmap of their proposed schedule at a point in time then delaying the game is totally unacceptable.

If they hadn't tried to be communicative then you wouldn't care?

So, are you praising SI, or not?

[DP]

4 minutes ago, anagain said:

So, because they offered a roadmap of their proposed schedule at a point in time then delaying the game is totally unacceptable.

If they hadn't tried to be communicative then you wouldn't care?

So, are you praising SI, or not?

It was a strange move to put a roadmap without any sort of dates on (roadmaps in general always have dates in any industry) and to do it a week before delaying for 4 months. Surely they were aware of big problems before this? I don’t buy something that big has changed plans that much in a week - you know what state your product is in. 

I’m not criticising them too harshly as things do get delayed - but to do the whole release date and pre order thing so soon before is a problem. 

Edited Saturday at 08:27 by DP

[anagain]

1 hour ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

When you release a roadmap and start taking pre orders, you should have made sure there aren’t any ”project killing” issues before. 

Perhaps they didn't know a 'project killing issue' was lurking just around the corner? Have you considered that possibility.

Sorry to possibly sound like I'm being sarky, but you don't know any of the ins and outs of the development of FM25. For that reason you can't speculate that they should have known of a 'project killing issue'.

Only those at SI and Sega know of the state of the project, so speculation about why they've done what they've done is just that, speculation.

 

[anagain]

3 minutes ago, DP said:

It was a strange move to put a roadmap without any sort of dates on (roadmaps in general always have dates in any industry) and to do it a week before delaying for 4 months. Surely they were aware of big problems before this? I don’t buy something that big has changed plans that much in a week - you know what state your product is in. 

I’m not criticising them too harshly as things do get delayed - but to do the whole release date and pre order thing so soon before is a problem. 

Perhaps they did it merely in good faith. People wanted communication on the game. Some idea is better than no idea.

To be fair, anyone following any game should be aware that things are very likely to change. SI could have just said 'the game's delayed'. They told us it would be March. That was a risky statement that will have annoyed a lot of people (whether I think they're being extreme, or not ). I think we should thank them for honesty and for the fact that this delay to release will probably, in all liklehood, cause SI some financial issues. Many a studio or publisher would have put the game out regardless.

I hope this is good for the game. Let's be optimistic.

[DP]

7 minutes ago, anagain said:

Perhaps they didn't know a 'project killing issue' was lurking just around the corner? Have you considered that possibility.

Sorry to possibly sound like I'm being sarky, but you don't know any of the ins and outs of the development of FM25. For that reason you can't speculate that they should have known of a 'project killing issue'.

Only those at SI and Sega know of the state of the project, so speculation about why they've done what they've done is just that, speculation.

 

It’s not really speculation. It’s based on what was shown. To only be able to show ‘wireframe’ screenshots - ie not actually finished screenshots - so soon to release was a big red flag and quite unprecedented compared to past years and other game studios. Nothing finished has ever been shown, which is enough evidence to suggest things were further off than they should be. 

[JAwtunes]

52 minutes ago, santy001 said:

There's a lot of chaff in this thread for sure, but generally speaking SI do like to have feedback on a matter centralised where they can review it in a concerted effort rather than it being scattered haphazardly across the whole forums. If it reaches a point where there is no utility in this thread then maybe it gets locked but as much as some people are pushing things too far in some posts the people at SI are also aware that at a time like this taking on board the negative feelings is something that needs to be done too. 

That all makes sense. However, this thread is now just the same few people repeating the same things at this point, so can't see how allowing this to continue is going to help SI.

[anagain]

4 minutes ago, DP said:

It’s not really speculation. It’s based on what was shown. To only be able to show ‘wireframe’ screenshots - ie not actually finished screenshots - so soon to release was a big red flag and quite unprecedented compared to past years and other game studios. Nothing finished has ever been shown, which is enough evidence to suggest things were further off than they should be. 

We have no idea at what stage of development, or for what reason, screenshots are taken.

Finished aspects of the game could be held back and not shown, though it's actually probably better to think of game assets only being finished when the game is released.

[spursfan]

On 11/10/2024 at 15:29, HighFlyingDwarf said:

I would have sympathy for this point, but based on the Unity video, what that video seems to have implied is that they have not changed the underlying architecture of how the game works, they created middleware for Unity to interact with the existing code base to make it work with the new GUI tools and elements.

This explains why save game conversion is included. I had asked the question earlier in this thread of why such a complicated feature was included whilst international management didn't make the cut. The database and other information seems to be fundamentally the same as it was in FM24, so of course it would be retained, since the intrinsic functionality is no different from FM24.

International management in its existing form, I would suggest, also could have been included, but based on Miles's philosophy, they apparently wanted to develop that from ground up. I don't think that was the right call.

With that in mind, and bearing in mind this version of the game has apparently been in development in some form since 2020, the sums simply don't add up.

Again, SI absolutely should not have used fake mockup images to try and encourage preorders. We know they were fake, it's plainly obvious from the errors.

Coding from one language to another is always fraught, and never as simple as it looks.
Issues that arise from product testing are the main cause of product delays and recalls.
It's just one of those things that user like myself can get angry and frustrated by, and ultimately make peace with. 

So that the makers can peacefully get about what they are meant to do.

 

[DP]

5 minutes ago, anagain said:

We have no idea at what stage of development, or for what reason, screenshots are taken.

Finished aspects of the game could be held back and not shown, though it's actually probably better to think of game assets only being finished when the game is released.

Okay, that’s completely at odds with what every other major games studio does and contrary to the actual thing that has happened.

But I do commend you for being optimistic. I’m trying to be too. 

[Fat_Frank8]

16 minutes ago, anagain said:

Perhaps they didn't know a 'project killing issue' was lurking just around the corner? Have you considered that possibility.

Yes, and i’m saying that you should make sure you know that those kinds of issues doesn’t exist (or at least won’t delay the release 3 months) before you announce the release and start taking pre orders. What is it that you don’t understand? 

Just now, anagain said:

We have no idea at what stage of development, or for what reason, screenshots are taken.

Yes we have. No one reveals mockups if it’s possible to show screenshots from a real build, that’s self explanatory for everyone who’s been involved in some sort of software project (and probably to the majority of everyone else as well). You obviously haven’t got a clue how software projects work (or at least should work) so I don’t understand why you are bashing out incorrect statements as if they were facts.

[anagain]

1 minute ago, DP said:

Okay, that’s completely at odds with what every other major games studio does and contrary to the actual thing that has happened.

But I do commend you for being optimistic. I’m trying to be too. 

I don't think it's at odds with other studios. They might release teasers, but I am sure 95% would expect people to be aware that anything is subject to change.

Either way, it's the finished product that matters.

I always try to be optimistic these days. I might have a little concern myself (and I actually do for FM25), but I long ago decided that there's little point being overly negative about games. I have enough things in my life to be angry about. I play games to forget that. Just move on to the next one is my motto now.

Maybe it comes with age, though I have no idea how old you are.

SI will only have good intentions. The devs that work on this game want a good product. The studio wants a good product. SI are a one game a year dev. If they have major problems then that's a huge concern for them.

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

When you release a roadmap and start taking pre orders, you should have made sure there aren’t any ”project killing” issues before. 

Wow. Wonder why they didn't think of that. Why didn't they just use clairvoyance from the start?!

[DP]

5 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Wow. Wonder why they didn't think of that. Why didn't they just use clairvoyance from the start?!

People under pressure from publishers and sponsors can make poor decisions. There is little doubt in my mind a poor decision was made in this case, based on the apology and the evidence of what we have seen. 

[anagain]

4 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

Yes, and i’m saying that you should make sure you know that those kinds of issues doesn’t exist (or at least won’t delay the release 3 months) before you announce the release and start taking pre orders. What is it that you don’t understand? 

Yes we have. No one reveals mockups if it’s possible to show screenshots from a real build, that’s self explanatory for everyone who’s been involved in some sort of software project (and probably to the majority of everyone else as well). You obviously haven’t got a clue how software projects work (or at least should work) so I don’t understand why you are bashing out incorrect statements as if they were facts.

I spent a lot of money on a game called Ashes Of Creation in 2017. An MMO that really impressed me in its kickstarter. I didn't have to spend all that. I knew the risks.

Some way in to development the dev team hit a problem when they realised their backend would not be able to cope with the future of the game. They had to redo the whole thing. It delayed the game hugely. It's still not even in beta.

Should they never have kickstarted? Should they have never offered alpha packages or beta?

Cities Skylines 2 released about a year ago and was found to be in a less than ideal state. It's still not perfect. Should they have never offered preorders?

No Mans Sky. Cyberpunk.

The list will go on. Everytime you preorder a game then it's your choice. Like it or loathe it, it's a common practice in the game's industry. If you don't want the risk, don't preorder. Wait.

No offence here, but you know nothing of the state of development of FM, or any of the practices involved in the game development, unless SI tell us. Anything else is speculation.

 

For what it's worth, I'm not mad about any of the games above. Disappointed, maybe. There are thousands of games to play. The team behind Cities Skylines 2 work incredibly hard on their game, and it's getting much better. They care. They want an excellent product. The same will be true for SI.

[Fat_Frank8]

4 minutes ago, anagain said:

I spent a lot of money on a game called Ashes Of Creation in 2017. An MMO that really impressed me in its kickstarter. I didn't have to spend all that. I knew the risks.

Some way in to development the dev team hit a problem when they realised their backend would not be able to cope with the future of the game. They had to redo the whole thing. It delayed the game hugely. It's still not even in beta.

Should they never have kickstarted? Should they have never offered alpha packages or beta?

Cities Skylines 2 released about a year ago and was found to be in a less than ideal state. It's still not perfect. Should they have never offered preorders?

No Mans Sky. Cyberpunk.

The list will go on. Everytime you preorder a game then it's your choice. Like it or loathe it, it's a common practice in the game's industry. If you don't want the risk, don't preorder. Wait.

No offence here, but you know nothing of the state of development of FM, or any of the practices involved in the game development, unless SI tell us. Anything else is speculation.

 

For what it's worth, I'm not mad about any of the games above. Disappointed, maybe. There are thousands of games to play. The team behind Cities Skylines 2 work incredibly hard on their game, and it's getting much better. They care. They want an excellent product. The same will be true for SI.

I don’t have a problem with the game being delayed, absolutely not. What i do have a problem with is that the release announcement and delay announcement were published within ten days. That’s not the way to gain credibility.
My worry is that even if they manage to release the game in march, it will be extremely buggy and barely playable. 

[spursfan]

16 hours ago, XaW said:

If you were strongly against the MLS and the whole draft system and designated player, and the rest of the rules there, then fine, you have a history of complaining about things you don't want to play and have a real claim to the "resource"-argument

Lovely, I didn't really keep up with the discussion surrounding MLS, mainly because I'm not interested in it. 
In all my FMs I've *never* played MLS.
I'm my local leagues I've had some enjoyment with zero budget and not whined about it, and even when I had the editor I haven't tweaked it to help enhance my enjoyment .(reached the semis of Asia's top continental club competition).

Having another league doesn't minimise my enjoyment of the game. I don't know anything about other Asian leagues besides my local one, Japan and Korea. And I'm just as unlikely to play MLS as I ever have been, which is currently below FC Andorra (I actually have a save there).
 
For those who wish to 'entertain' on gender, there's other channels besides this niche forum of obsessed football fanatics (we're not your target market, seriously -- there's other places with wider reach).
 

[anagain]

2 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

I don’t have a problem with the game being delayed, absolutely not. What i do have a problem with is that the release announcement and delay announcement were published within ten days. That’s not the way to gain credibility.
My worry is that even if they manage to release the game in march, it will be extremely buggy and barely playable. 

Again, we have no idea what happened in those ten days.

You have to remember that SI are a studio that do one game a year. Can you blame them for really wanting to get the game out without a delay? The delay will probably hurt them.

SI are a business. Sega are a business.

 

BUt, I'm just repeating now. Just relax, people. If you play more than FM and want something really great to pass the time until March then I highly recommend Satisfactory.Coffee Stain are an excellent studio. Whilst I will tell people to not lay in to SI, I will say Miles and co could elarn a lot from Coffee Stain.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

18 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Wow. Wonder why they didn't think of that. Why didn't they just use clairvoyance from the start?!

You're conducting some interesting mental gymnastics to excuse the fact that they missed an issue that would have caused the game to be delayed until March, when they originally announced a November release date, and then had the gall to ask people for their money.

Pretty clear to anybody who's looking at this within context that the preorder numbers and general uproar caused this, not any one particular bug. Did SI even cite that in their announcement? No they didn't.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

39 minutes ago, spursfan said:

Coding from one language to another is always fraught, and never as simple as it looks.
Issues that arise from product testing are the main cause of product delays and recalls.
It's just one of those things that user like myself can get angry and frustrated by, and ultimately make peace with. 

So that the makers can peacefully get about what they are meant to do.

The delay would have caused a lot less problems if they had not asked for preorders first. That's a real breach of trust here when all the way up until the most recent announcement they were swearing by the end of November release date.