Semi Final 2: Netherlands vs England live from the BVB Stadion Dortmund. Wednesday ITV1 8pm

[Heartwork]

29 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Wharton isn't getting on now unless we are somehow 3-0 up with 5 minutes left on Sunday. I don't mind it really, both him and Mainoo have shot to stardom in the last six months but Wharton has been impressive within a team that was already safe in the league and could go under the radar a bit while Mainoo has often been Man Utd's best midfielder, and has already played and won a big pressure match. Can see why Southgate has trusted him rather than Wharton tbh.

He'll get a medal if he plays or not anyway, either as winner or runner up, so that will take some of the sting off not playing.

Edited July 11 by Heartwork

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Guehi has been superb when you consider the space is he having to defend out on that left hand side.

[kopsy101]

6 minutes ago, WillHoward42 said:

A lot of people still like to be weird about Saka, but he has definitely been our best player this tournament. Amount of people who wanted to shift him to LB was astounding.

I think he has been better than Stones, whether that's down to Stones perhaps not being up to his usual high standards is another question. But Guehi really hasn't done much wrong given the lack of protection the defense has had throughout.

I reckon that is being a little harsh on Mainoo and doing a disservice. When he came on for his first cameo, there was a noticeable difference from what Gallagher was offering. Last night he was definitely on the front foot and should have been awarded player of the match I'm not suggesting he has been out of this world good. But he has certainly done more than any of our other midfield options (without putting his age and inexperience into context)

Agreed, I also think that him thriving in a team this bad compared to the likes of Foden and Kane has put him clear of them, IMO. 

Yeah Guehi has been decent, it's been a defensive setup though. He's been tested more than Stones perhaps, but again, it's close and if you include one you can't really exclude the other.

Mainoos control and touch are better than any other option available actually, so yeah he looks far more refined from that point of view. Sorry but last night I thought he had some really good moments, but also gave it away far too much. The only players who were excellent throughout was Saka and probably the CB's last night. He certainly looks comfortable at this level though, he'll be a starter for the next decade. 

[m_fenton]

1 hour ago, WillHoward42 said:

A lot of people still like to be weird about Saka, but he has definitely been our best player this tournament. Amount of people who wanted to shift him to LB was astounding.

I don't think anyone was suggesting he was doing badly on the right wing, so should be shifted to left back. The suggestion was that he would be a massive upgrade at left back compared to a right footed Trippier, even with someone worse playing right wing.

[WillHoward42]

2 minutes ago, m_fenton said:

I don't think anyone was suggesting he was doing badly on the right wing, so should be shifted to left back. The suggestion was that he would be a massive upgrade at left back compared to a right footed Trippier, even with someone worse playing right wing.

Maybe so.

I'm not sure how effective he would have been if pushed to LB. Not somewhere he has played for a very long time.

So I feel the loss you take from RW outweighs any (what I would consider to be limited) gains from LB

Moot point now anyway, as thankfully he won't be filling in there anytime soon.

[ham_aka_stam]

40 minutes ago, kopsy101 said:

Mainoos control and touch are better than any other option available actually, so yeah he looks far more refined from that point of view. Sorry but last night I thought he had some really good moments, but also gave it away far too much. The only players who were excellent throughout was Saka and probably the CB's last night. He certainly looks comfortable at this level though, he'll be a starter for the next decade. 

He completed 36 of 42 passes (86%). A very similar percentage to Bellingham (89%), and higher Saka (74%), Kane (72%) and Palmer (67%).

He and 5 other players all played 1 key pass.

He and Palmer were the only two players to attempt through balls (according to WhoScored) with Maino 1/2 and Palmer 1/1. He also completed 2/2 long balls.

He completed joint most tackles (2) with Rice and Trippier, and completed more interceptions (2) than anyone else. 

 

I don't think he gave it away far too much...

[VP.]

On 08/07/2024 at 17:07, VP. said:

Time for a whip round lads 

 

7 hours ago, Carambau said:

England can thank bribe ref Zwayer for that.

[sebsy]

Mainoo also showed that great bit of play to set up Foden for the shot cleared off the line, and made a couple of really important contributions getting back to cut out dangerous balls. He was everywhere last night. He's obviously got improvements to make in certain areas of his game but he's likely to make them if his trajectory so far continues.

[themadsheep2001]

19 minutes ago, ham_aka_stam said:

He completed 36 of 42 passes (86%). A very similar percentage to Bellingham (89%), and higher Saka (74%), Kane (72%) and Palmer (67%).

He and 5 other players all played 1 key pass.

He and Palmer were the only two players to attempt through balls (according to WhoScored) with Maino 1/2 and Palmer 1/1. He also completed 2/2 long balls.

He completed joint most tackles (2) with Rice and Trippier, and completed more interceptions (2) than anyone else. 

 

I don't think he gave it away far too much...

Not sure what it is after the game, but before the Netherlands, Mainoo not only had the best pass completion rate at the Euros, but the best completion rate ever at any Euros since they started recording it. If anything he should take a bit more risk. He's definitely not giving the ball away too much

[kopsy101]

23 minutes ago, ham_aka_stam said:

He completed 36 of 42 passes (86%). A very similar percentage to Bellingham (89%), and higher Saka (74%), Kane (72%) and Palmer (67%).

He and 5 other players all played 1 key pass.

He and Palmer were the only two players to attempt through balls (according to WhoScored) with Maino 1/2 and Palmer 1/1. He also completed 2/2 long balls.

He completed joint most tackles (2) with Rice and Trippier, and completed more interceptions (2) than anyone else. 

 

I don't think he gave it away far too much...

Whatever fact boy.  

His slipped in pass to Foden was lovely btw. 

No, he doesn't play as high as the latter 3 so I wouldn't expect them to be that high, and that's good for Bellingham considering the nature of his play. There was a few naive moments from passing and carrying the ball. There seemed to be a confusion in the game chat about whether to criticize or praise him at times  These things will stop as he works out when to release and when to carry/pass, he's a child. Plus, i've seen him do it to perfection with United whenever he's played against us. Like, i've seen him play in a worse team, against a better team, and play far better. The world is absolutely at his feet. 

My point is that he fits in with the other players, those stats seem to back that. I wouldn't say the other guys have been really good, so i'm not gonna say he has either - Although comparatively with other 18/19 y/o's, he's been f***ing phenomenal.   

[ham_aka_stam]

The main thing with him for me is that he never looks like he doesn't know what to do.  Always calm and assured on the ball, and every time he lost it I feel it was worth the risk (vibes only here because I don't have any more stats, I'm spent).  The number of times he drifted in one direction slightly, drew the oppo MFer and then drove forwards (couldn't find carry stats but I felt like he did a lot of the carrying that Bellhingham did in the first group match).  

I disagree too that Bellingham's passing was particularly adventurous, in fact I felt he often ran into cul-de-sacs and ended up having to pass backwards.  I also don't think he was particularly higher up the pitch than Maino in the main.  I think the ball gets played to him more though.

This comparison for Mainoo and Rodri isn't meant to show them as equals, and they do different jobs (It's Rice who should be compared with Rodri) but it came up when searching for more stats.

His passing percentage against Netherlands was far below his usual for the tournament, and I think that's due to him being more adventurous and making more of those passes in/around the opposition third as the heatmap shows.

@themadsheep2001 this is after the Ned game,

 

 

 

[Wiggins Top Boys]

Mainoo's movement is also brilliant. smart and positive. take the Watkins goal for instance, he outstretches his leg but immediately makes a run to get in the thoughts of the other centre back whilst Watkins makes the advanced run. it's jus pure desire aand intelligence.

Not having a go at bellingham just beyond him but someone in his position needs to be moving into the hole vacated by Watkins and De Vrij in case that shot doesnt come off or provides a passing option, although i guess that's the first time our striker did that all night so probably unexpected!

Edited July 11 by Wiggins Top Boys

[enigmatic]

2 hours ago, ham_aka_stam said:

He completed 36 of 42 passes (86%). A very similar percentage to Bellingham (89%), and higher Saka (74%), Kane (72%) and Palmer (67%).

He and 5 other players all played 1 key pass.

He and Palmer were the only two players to attempt through balls (according to WhoScored) with Maino 1/2 and Palmer 1/1. He also completed 2/2 long balls.

He completed joint most tackles (2) with Rice and Trippier, and completed more interceptions (2) than anyone else. 

 

I don't think he gave it away far too much...

I'd add that that Mainoo tends to give it away when passing forwards or doing things in tight areas further forwards so it tended to be possession we immediately won back

Don't think he stood out more than say Saka but he had a good game

[JD nawrat]

10 hours ago, sebsy said:

I've started the day by watching the game this morning as I usually go to bed at roughly 830, so wasn't hard to avoid the result.

Really good game to watch, by far our best performance, and Mainoo was brilliant. Everyone played their part but he was superb. Wonderful winner from Watkins. 

Not a bad way to start my birthday \o/

happy birthday mate!

[sebsy]

20 minutes ago, JD nawrat said:

happy birthday mate!

Cheers