Number of Extra Lower Division Teams to be Promoted paired with Relegation Playoffs

[Mage Noir]

Is it possible to compare the two as, after much testing, I do not seem to be able to get this to work.

The setup in the first season is as follows:

Division 1

The league expands from 10 teams to 12 by automatically relegating 0 and having a league format relegation playoff between the bottom two sides from division 1 and the 3rd and 4th placed teams from the division below.

Number of Extra Lower Division Teams to be Promoted = 2

Relegated teams = min 0, max 2

The game is happy with this setup.

Division 2

It starts with 13 teams and expands to 14. The top 2 are automatically promoted. There are no automatic relegations. The champions of the three child competitions that make up the third tier are automatically promoted. The bottom 3 teams enter a league format relegation playoff with the runners up of the three child competitions that make up the third tier.

Number of Extra Lower Division Teams to be Promoted = 3

Relegated teams = min 0, max 3

While you would normally have to set the extra lower division teams to be promoted to one when expanding from 13 to 14, the game insists upon this being set to three here.

Division 3

There are 29 teams split across three leagues. This changes to 26 teams split across three leagues for the next season.

The number of extra lower division teams to be promoted has to be set to -3 in order to verify division 1. However, division 2 does not like the fact that this is set to -3 and wants it set to 0.

_________________

Is this setup simply not possible or is there a workaround?

Edited August 13 by Mage Noir

[rmpMarko]

Sounds quite possible in theory. Of course for the first year you would need to have a start and an end for each competition and then from year after will run smoothly with your rules. Errors could be in tiny details... Probably better if you upload your file?

[Mage Noir]

I've uploaded the files. They were built for FM18. If you don't have the editor for that version of game, they will have to be imported rather than loaded, which is why I have exported them as .xml files.

v1.6 was the work in progress, before I decided to rebuild it as 2.0, which doesn't feature future changes to the league and only focuses on getting the first season's restructuring done.

However, I ran into the same problem in both files.

There are likely to be more errors that need fixing in 1.6, so it will be best to see what's gone wrong in 2.0.

Barbados Advanced v1.6.xml Barbados Advanced v2.0.xml

[rmpMarko]

was not expecting fm2018. I know you can import but then you can't test or anything as it will be based on the database for the 24. It s good for big countries where the number of team stays, not so good for the small ones.

will see if tomorrow i can re download again game and editor for the 18

Edited August 13 by rmpMarko

[Mage Noir]

Thanks. Here is version 2.0 modified for the FM 2022 editor if that helps?

Edit: I have also uploaded a version that should be able to be tested in FM 2024 (teams have been cleared from the leagues and re-entered)

 

2.0-2022.xml 2.0-2024.xml

Edited August 15 by Mage Noir

[rmpMarko]

On 15/08/2024 at 20:29, Mage Noir said:

Thanks. Here is version 2.0 modified for the FM 2022 editor if that helps?

Edit: I have also uploaded a version that should be able to be tested in FM 2024 (teams have been cleared from the leagues and re-entered)

 

2.0-2022.xml 3.52 MB · 0 downloads 2.0-2024.xml 3.54 MB · 1 download

So... a bit bitter here... the file works when i do the testing in the editor itself but won't verify saying the division 1 (2 tier) won't finish the stage when in the in editor test it does. will upload all here so u can see. Number of teams changes properly, everything is ok testing.

I have had nightmares because it's an old file and every time I opened the editor, the division 1 had a number of teams different in the database despite me setting it at 13 for first year.B4RB4DOS.xml

[Mage Noir]

15 hours ago, rmpMarko said:

So... a bit bitter here... the file works when i do the testing in the editor itself but won't verify saying the division 1 (2 tier) won't finish the stage when in the in editor test it does. 

It may be that you missed something out when you added the relegation playoff to the second season (it only takes place in the first). However, when I remove it, the game tells me that the second division (3rd tier) didn't finish in time for the season update, despite this only having one stage and a champions playoff between the three divisions at that level.

I'm also occasionally able to get it to specify that it can't find the stage 'leag' in the child competitions, even though that is the correct title for the stage...

I have also occasionally been able to get the game to verify my original files.

It looks like whatever the problem is is happening in the third tier. Maybe the game doesn't like the fact that, when combined with reformatting, the number of teams in divisions at that level varies and it gets confused. I've noticed when testing competitions that across each division at that tier the teams correctly add up to 29 (9/10/10) in the first season, but will be listed as an incorrect number of total teams in the division (I've had 27, 23 and 21), then the game brings down the number of teams to that number in the next season.

The above is only happening in my files though. If I look at what you have done, it appears that you changed the number of teams per division to range from 6-12 rather than the 9-10 and 8-9 that I had. While you've also set the Number of Extra Lower Division Teams to be Promoted to 0 in the third tier rather than -3. Or have I missed a step?

[Mage Noir]

I've managed to confirm that the editor doesn't like restructuring the league when paired with relegation/promotion playoffs that don't promote/relegate a fixed amount of teams.

I dumbed everything down so that it was as basic as could be so, instead of having a parent competition with three child competitions at the third tier, I made it a single league with groups instead.

The editor was still having issues with 'Number of Extra Lower Division Teams to be Promoted'.

I decided to say 'screw it' and set the numbers to how this would usually work (1 extra team at tier 2 and -3 at tier 3). Of course, the editor claimed that there were issues when testing rules. However, this setup runs perfectly fine in both the game and 'Test Competitions'.

I then decided to remove the promotion/relegation playoffs and just have fixed promotion and relegation spots and testing rules worked as well.

So yes, this setup is possible, but it's impossible to verify the file.

[rmpMarko]

7 hours ago, Mage Noir said:

It may be that you missed something out when you added the relegation playoff to the second season (it only takes place in the first). However, when I remove it, the game tells me that the second division (3rd tier) didn't finish in time for the season update, despite this only having one stage and a champions playoff between the three divisions at that level.

I'm also occasionally able to get it to specify that it can't find the stage 'leag' in the child competitions, even though that is the correct title for the stage...

I have also occasionally been able to get the game to verify my original files.

It looks like whatever the problem is is happening in the third tier. Maybe the game doesn't like the fact that, when combined with reformatting, the number of teams in divisions at that level varies and it gets confused. I've noticed when testing competitions that across each division at that tier the teams correctly add up to 29 (9/10/10) in the first season, but will be listed as an incorrect number of total teams in the division (I've had 27, 23 and 21), then the game brings down the number of teams to that number in the next season.

The above is only happening in my files though. If I look at what you have done, it appears that you changed the number of teams per division to range from 6-12 rather than the 9-10 and 8-9 that I had. While you've also set the Number of Extra Lower Division Teams to be Promoted to 0 in the third tier rather than -3. Or have I missed a step?

No nothing missing, 100% sure. As u can see from in editor test competition, all goes fine and all stages finished. If there was something missing u wouldn t be able to simulate 9-10 seasons without error. I did not get u wanted those playoff for First year only. I thought u wanted same structure. 

I also thought u Said u wanted the number down to 26 in second season. Was it supposed to stay 29?

Range 6 to 12 because sometimes season does not start in one of the Child competition as there is a different numbers of teams outside the box. Simulating lot of years sometimes u get a division with 11 and another one with 7.

Number set to 0 as My understanding was to bring down the number of teams after 1st season

[Mage Noir]

2 hours ago, rmpMarko said:

No nothing missing, 100% sure. As u can see from in editor test competition, all goes fine and all stages finished. If there was something missing u wouldn t be able to simulate 9-10 seasons without error. I did not get u wanted those playoff for First year only. I thought u wanted same structure. 

I also thought u Said u wanted the number down to 26 in second season. Was it supposed to stay 29?

Range 6 to 12 because sometimes season does not start in one of the Child competition as there is a different numbers of teams outside the box. Simulating lot of years sometimes u get a division with 11 and another one with 7.

Number set to 0 as My understanding was to bring down the number of teams after 1st season

The reason it's saying that the stage isn't complete by season deadline day is another bug in the editor. Season update day has to be set to the first of January or later. Otherwise, the fixtures appear under the previous season's fixture list. Once season update day is in the same year as the season itself, this isn't a problem.

The third tier was supposed to be reduced to 26 teams for the second season.

It isn't an issue if there are too many teams from one region in the third tier. If the leagues are set to 8-9 teams per division and there are 12 teams from Region A, 6 teams from Region B and 8 from Region C, the game will reorganise the leagues so that teams from other regions fill up the Region B league, which is perfectly acceptable here.

Do you remember if you made any other changes? The problem I am facing is that different leagues seem to want different setups.

My understanding of 'Number of Extra Lower Division Teams to be Promoted' based on experience is that this means 'How many more/less teams should be in this league next season?' rather than 'How many more teams get promoted to this division than those that are relegated from it?'.

So for a structure that is 10/13/29/12 to go to 12/14/26/12, it should be set up as +2/+1/-3/0.

However, when testing the top flight it wants +3 for the second tier, then when testing the second tier it wants the figure to be +1.

Even though the editor will not verify it, the +2/+1/-3/0 system is working exactly like it is supposed to.