Thoughts on loaning our young players

[petertr]

I've noticed that loaning players out really does seem to help young players develop, but this current season I'm finding my affiliates are quite right for a couple of my players who need to play at a higher level.  

So I placed them on the loan list, and waited for championship clubs to come in for them.   None did.  But loads of overseas clubs did.  

I only have the English league running, and I remember never loaning players to teams who don't have actual games from playing old FM games.  Can anyone tell me if that's still a valid thing - or would these loans have had just as much development opportunity as in a playable league?

[Marc Vaughan]

On 21/08/2024 at 11:26, petertr said:

I've noticed that loaning players out really does seem to help young players develop, but this current season I'm finding my affiliates are quite right for a couple of my players who need to play at a higher level.  

So I placed them on the loan list, and waited for championship clubs to come in for them.   None did.  But loads of overseas clubs did.  

I only have the English league running, and I remember never loaning players to teams who don't have actual games from playing old FM games.  Can anyone tell me if that's still a valid thing - or would these loans have had just as much development opportunity as in a playable league?

What time of year is it when you've put them up for loan? - if the Loan window in the Championship is closed that might account for the lack of movement (and also some leagues have tighter loan restrictions than others, which can lead to more offers from those countries).

With regards to overseas/inactive clubs - they'll develop players in much the same way as any league, while the league isn't visible the clubs do play matches behind the scenes which is how their players accumulate their stats and any players loaned to them will do the same.

That being said - there is a component of loans which affects player development and very young players can sometimes struggle with loans to far away places, so if you're loaning out a 16 year old then a local club where he can remain with his family and friend group close by can be helpful, unless he's showing a really professional and robust personality ... loaning an insecure 16 year old to a foreign club in a country where he doesn't speak the language is almost asking him to fail ... so bear such things in mind when making a decision.

(similarly you can 'help' loan/transfer players who join your club from abroad by making sure there are native speakers within the club - as this will help them settle and become accustomed to things without feeling there's no one they can talk to easily ... this works best with 'friends' but anyone will do in a pinch, incidentally this is why clubs sometimes sign two (or more) players from the same club at a very young age irl)

[petertr]

20 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

What time of year is it when you've put them up for loan? - if the Loan window in the Championship is closed that might account for the lack of movement (and also some leagues have tighter loan restrictions than others, which can lead to more offers from those countries).

With regards to overseas/inactive clubs - they'll develop players in much the same way as any league, while the league isn't visible the clubs do play matches behind the scenes which is how their players accumulate their stats and any players loaned to them will do the same.

That being said - there is a component of loans which affects player development and very young players can sometimes struggle with loans to far away places, so if you're loaning out a 16 year old then a local club where he can remain with his family and friend group close by can be helpful, unless he's showing a really professional and robust personality ... loaning an insecure 16 year old to a foreign club in a country where he doesn't speak the language is almost asking him to fail ... so bear such things in mind when making a decision.

(similarly you can 'help' loan/transfer players who join your club from abroad by making sure there are native speakers within the club - as this will help them settle and become accustomed to things without feeling there's no one they can talk to easily ... this works best with 'friends' but anyone will do in a pinch, incidentally this is why clubs sometimes sign two (or more) players from the same club at a very young age irl)

It was early July in this case iirc (a few seasons ago now lol).  In the end I just gave it a try, and yeah it worked quite well.

I guess there's an adaptability type attribute somewhere in all that, so that as well as your other comments makes sense too (quite surprisingly detailed for "just" a mobile game though, its a nice touch)

I have noticed language skills improving more quickly when there is a friend who can help.

 

Stil feel like I've only scratched the surface of this game

[Marc Vaughan]

"quite surprisingly detailed for "just" a mobile game though, its a nice touch)"
Heh - when I do things I try and do them right .... its why when I introduced height and weight to FM PC (back in the day when I worked on that product) I also linked it to the players training levels and their professionalism so you could spot unprofessional players having the summer off and gaining weight, whereas more professional players would stay somewhat in shape
(in other news yeah perhaps I might get carried away now and again - what can I say I love my job )

[StephenCronin]

On 11/09/2024 at 02:49, Marc Vaughan said:

"quite surprisingly detailed for "just" a mobile game though, its a nice touch)"
Heh - when I do things I try and do them right .... its why when I introduced height and weight to FM PC (back in the day when I worked on that product) I also linked it to the players training levels and their professionalism so you could spot unprofessional players having the summer off and gaining weight, whereas more professional players would stay somewhat in shape
(in other news yeah perhaps I might get carried away now and again - what can I say I love my job )

Ooh, that reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask you Marc: I know height is not used to calculate whether a player wins a header (ie it's built into Aerial), but is height used to work out whether a player will improve in Aerial or not?

I *think* that taller players are more likely to improve their Aerial, but not sure if that true and, if so, whether it's coming from their height or maybe their 'shape' (ie TF more likely to improve). Would be great to have some insight on that (if you can share).

[Marc Vaughan]

14 hours ago, StephenCronin said:

Ooh, that reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask you Marc: I know height is not used to calculate whether a player wins a header (ie it's built into Aerial), but is height used to work out whether a player will improve in Aerial or not?

I *think* that taller players are more likely to improve their Aerial, but not sure if that true and, if so, whether it's coming from their height or maybe their 'shape' (ie TF more likely to improve). Would be great to have some insight on that (if you can share).

It's not actually used in determining whether someone can improve in Aerial because in my ever so biased opinion its not actually related to that - my bias is from the fact that I'm 6'5'' and play (still) in central defense, despite that I'm often not the best person in the air on my team because the fact of the matter is that taller people often don't have the best spring compared to smaller people ... I do however attract a heck of a lot of defenders to me if I come up for a set-piece

That being said if a player is 5'1 and starts with low aerial ability he's never going to reach 20 aerial ability ... whereas a 6'5'' person is likely to be at his worst rated somewhat higher than 1 to begin with.

[StephenCronin]

3 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

It's not actually used in determining whether someone can improve in Aerial because in my ever so biased opinion its not actually related to that - my bias is from the fact that I'm 6'5'' and play (still) in central defense, despite that I'm often not the best person in the air on my team because the fact of the matter is that taller people often don't have the best spring compared to smaller people ... I do however attract a heck of a lot of defenders to me if I come up for a set-piece

That being said if a player is 5'1 and starts with low aerial ability he's never going to reach 20 aerial ability ... whereas a 6'5'' person is likely to be at his worst rated somewhat higher than 1 to begin with.

Thanks Marc, really appreciate the answer! 🙂

[StephenFMT17]

You’re 6’5??? 

[Marc Vaughan]

5 hours ago, StephenFMT17 said:

You’re 6’5??? 

lol - yeah ... or as I prefer to think about it, I'm normal sized but its surprising how many short people there are around

[Shanamaj]

Loaning players to non-league clubs in countries where you have active leagues always goes horribly in my saves, the loans are rated F in development hub and the player develops poorly. Overseas to non-active leagues works better though.

[Marc Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Shanamaj said:

Loaning players to non-league clubs in countries where you have active leagues always goes horribly in my saves, the loans are rated F in development hub and the player develops poorly. Overseas to non-active leagues works better though.

Any chance you can send me a save game so I can take a look? (in general I've not found that problem myself - but there might be nuances which cause your experience to differ from my own and I don't want to just say 'well it works for me').

[Shanamaj]

24 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Any chance you can send me a save game so I can take a look? (in general I've not found that problem myself - but there might be nuances which cause your experience to differ from my own and I don't want to just say 'well it works for me').

Unfortunately I don’t have such a lower league save right now but next time I’ll send it across.

I do have an issue in the save I just did to try to recreate the loan issue I described above (without much success) in that I only get one youth player from the academy first season, and an awful one at that. It happens a lot that the first season only brings 0-1 player but subsequent seasons have more typical amounts. Why is that? I uploaded DF9F1196-280D-459D-89D0-60D1D883C40D.

[Marc Vaughan]

9 minutes ago, Shanamaj said:

Unfortunately I don’t have such a lower league save right now but next time I’ll send it across.

I do have an issue in the save I just did to try to recreate the loan issue I described above (without much success) in that I only get one youth player from the academy first season, and an awful one at that. It happens a lot that the first season only brings 0-1 player but subsequent seasons have more typical amounts. Why is that? I uploaded DF9F1196-280D-459D-89D0-60D1D883C40D.

Thanks for uploading that - much appreciated.

The reason that there might be slightly fewer players in the first season because of how the youth generation works - it basically sits on top of the regen system and steals players who are appropriate to become youth players when they are reborn ... in the first season we 'prime' this with a few players who are totally regenerated (ie. not based on real players) but we might need to up the number of these slightly (which I'll look into, it was kept intentionally low so as to not slow down the game).

[Shanamaj]

Thanks for the explanation! It’s weird that some career setups still give me a good amount of youths in the first season then, such as when starting in VNN/VNS, but yeah it would be nice if the number wasn’t zero or one in other leagues either at least.