The Sheffield United Project 09 - Discussion Thread

[Dargone]

Choose the one that suits them the best and the one you feel confident using.

To be more defensive you can play at a slow tempo, shorter passing without even changing anything else. By only changing tempo and passing you 'should' retain possession slightly better. If you change the mentality to defence then you should consider dropping the d-line slightly to match the mentality, maybe play a more direct passing game.

As for the targetman see which suits your style of play the best. You can play targetmen 2 or 3 different ways.

Could you expand on the targetman comment? I basically want to run the base 4-4-2 and tweak throughout matches like we've been talking about in this thread. However, I noticed that the strikers' instructions were both the same? If I wanted one of them to play "in the hole" how would I go about that? Thanks, again!

[Cleon]

If you wanted him to play in the hole maybe think about having him on short or mixed passing, very little closing down, normal mentality, high CF. All depending on stats ofc. Plus you could give him run with ball often depending on if you want him to just sit in the hole and play others in, or get forward himself.

[ron.e]

Imo it's pointless using if you use a high d-line or attacking mentality. Rest of the time it should be okay though

totally agree with that tbh. What you'll find is the players will get the ball forward far to early and anyway you are already push up. So just with a deep line i think. Nice to see you back cleon:)

[Dargone]

If you wanted him to play in the hole maybe think about having him on short or mixed passing, very little closing down, normal mentality, high CF. All depending on stats ofc. Plus you could give him run with ball often depending on if you want him to just sit in the hole and play others in, or get forward himself.

Okay, would the deep-lying forward be the target man or the other forward? Also, would you put forward runs to rarely to keep him in the hole? Thanks!

[Cleon]

Okay, would the deep-lying forward be the target man or the other forward? Also, would you put forward runs to rarely to keep him in the hole? Thanks!

Honestly it's a case of trial and error or sticking with which works best for you. There are so many ways you can play him, but without seeing your games it's hard to say which is best. A fast or targetman type of striker can work in the hole.

[Dargone]

Honestly it's a case of trial and error or sticking with which works best for you. There are so many ways you can play him, but without seeing your games it's hard to say which is best. A fast or targetman type of striker can work in the hole.

Makes sense. How about forward runs though, I'm thinking rarely for the deep-lying striker so he stays in the hole? Or is that another setting that can fluctuate?

[Cleon]

Makes sense. How about forward runs though, I'm thinking rarely for the deep-lying striker so he stays in the hole? Or is that another setting that can fluctuate?

Well if you just want him to stay in the hole then don't give him forward runs often. If you want him to get forward and support then you may wish to decide to give him forward runs often

[furlo2007]

Just a quick question to anyone really. Do you mark your 1st team subs down as available for reserves? Do you reckon it could be a good or bad thing?

[Cleon]

I don't unless they become unfit.

[furlo2007]

Cheers just seems anytime i put a sub into play from the start he gets injured. Have struggled with injuries for the 1st 3 seasons now at the min i have 8 starting 11 players injured.

[ron.e]

Makes sense. How about forward runs though, I'm thinking rarely for the deep-lying striker so he stays in the hole? Or is that another setting that can fluctuate?

I found a way that has worked really well to be honest. Here it is:-

targetman type striker

ment - 12

Creative freedom - 15

passing - 12

c/down - team

tackling - normal

pacy type striker

ment - team (attacking group of players)

creative freedom - little (I just want him through the middle)

passing - short to normal

c/down - team

tackling - easy

fwd runs - mixed to often (depending on off the ball stat)

run with ball - mixed

Long shots -rarely

through balls and crossing -mixed

These settings have done wonders for me so far in the championship. I don't know what it will be like in the prem though

I hope it helps you. I'll keep you informed what happens in the prem.

[DomD]

Cleon, what was your strategy for team talks in your first season?

[kierokiero]

It turns out I'm using a similar tactic. Can I ask you to look at my problem?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=88108

[Cleon]

Cleon, what was your strategy for team talks in your first season?

Left them to the Assistant.

It turns out I'm using a similar tactic. Can I ask you to look at my problem?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=88108

I would but without donwloading and loading up the tactic's I have no idea of the issues and what sort of system you use. You offer little tactical discussion in the thread, so unless that changes I doubt I'll be getting involved sorry. But I can't answer everyone, I try my best but not enough hours in the day:(

[JackDavies]

Cleon, my ass manager is keeps saying there are gaps in play in the tactic feedback. A gap between my defence and midfield, and sometimes a gap between my strikers and attack.

implaying a 4-42 with a stagered mentailit defense ( one cb on ultra defensive one the notch before normal)

I cant seem to get rid of this gap feedback even though ive messed with mentailitys, and the d-line. Any suggestions of where i may be going wrong? or where i might be putting in contradictory instructions to create this gap

[kierokiero]

Thank you,

I actually loaded up tactics to megaupload, hope it's allowed. If it doesn't work, I'll give you a description.

My hypothesis is that I'm facing a motivation and trust problem, but to continue with that I have to confirm that tactics is alright.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H3VOXA0U

http://www.megaupload.com/ru/?d=69BBPUI3

P.S. I totally understand the timing problem)

I would but without donwloading and loading up the tactic's I have no idea of the issues and what sort of system you use. You offer little tactical discussion in the thread, so unless that changes I doubt I'll be getting involved sorry. But I can't answer everyone, I try my best but not enough hours in the day:(

[Calvincito]

Cleon, your philosophy seem to remind pretty much about mine, and I can also find a similar "problem". Your games at home are often won, but the stats often show lack of dominance. This is something I also suffer from, making me frustrated and having me thinking I'm just lucky winning those games. Is this the way it's "suppose to be" in this version of the game? Is it only possible to consistantly dominate home games if you're a big team (Chelsea, Barca, Milan, etc)? What is the deciding factor; a club's reputation?

[Cleon]

Cleon, my ass manager is keeps saying there are gaps in play in the tactic feedback. A gap between my defence and midfield, and sometimes a gap between my strikers and attack.

implaying a 4-42 with a stagered mentailit defense ( one cb on ultra defensive one the notch before normal)

I cant seem to get rid of this gap feedback even though ive messed with mentailitys, and the d-line. Any suggestions of where i may be going wrong? or where i might be putting in contradictory instructions to create this gap

You need to have the mentality of the defence no lower than 2 in difference to the midfield iirc to get rid of that, or play with a higher d-line.

Cleon, your philosophy seem to remind pretty much about mine, and I can also find a similar "problem". Your games at home are often won, but the stats often show lack of dominance. This is something I also suffer from, making me frustrated and having me thinking I'm just lucky winning those games. Is this the way it's "suppose to be" in this version of the game? Is it only possible to consistantly dominate home games if you're a big team (Chelsea, Barca, Milan, etc)? What is the deciding factor; a club's reputation?

Next season I expect to dominate most games at home. Some of the stats from my games are misleading though, yes I might not have a smany shots but in nearly all games I have the better chances due to mine not being all from range like the AI. Look at the team's I've played and see how many of them are blocked and off target lots. So if you want to judge on stats how dominant you are you then have to take this into account.

If you are forcing the opposition long shots only then your tactic is very solid and is doing 'somthing' right. Teams are coming to my ground thinking I am a relegation side and my odds of winning the league were 2000/1 and I was written off. However I'm beginning to prove that in most games I am capable of getting a result. There have only been 2 cases of me being what I classed as totally out played. As my rep grows team's will start to play a little different against me and more defensive, but at the minute they are attacking me. Something which actually works in my favour.

[Cleon]

Thank you,

I actually loaded up tactics to megaupload, hope it's allowed. If it doesn't work, I'll give you a description.

My hypothesis is that I'm facing a motivation and trust problem, but to continue with that I have to confirm that tactics is alright.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H3VOXA0U

http://www.megaupload.com/ru/?d=69BBPUI3

P.S. I totally understand the timing problem)

Your probably best going into more detail in your own thread for me. I don't have the time to download the tactic and see the instruction in game myself sorry.

[Arsenal71]

Cleon, what would you setup with regards to a scot report as followes bearing in mind im arsenal and expected to win. I normally start off attacking then reverting to a control formation later on if im either winning or am not converting my chances.

"x likes to play possession football and y will look to get the ball down and play it. midfield are good on the ball and can create chances."

[jbarnsie]

just want to say this has really helped me get to grips with the game a bit more after a long time away from it

i am still in the first season with eastbourne borough (small conference club, low rep, no finance and poor squad)

i only came accross this after a few games of the season but now at xmas i am in with a shout at least of avoiding the drop (and a nice little fa cup 1st round narrow defeat to leciester to boot)

a few questions if i may

i am using 4-5-1 attacking like you did, from watching the games since switching to this i am having a lot more possesion in the midfield and dominating games more.

however the goalkeeper is still kicking most balls out of play as our my full backs and occasionally even my wingers! this may just be due to there poor stats though!

also my assistant manager is commenting every game that the gap between my defence and midfield is to big. However when i held the defensive line high i was struggling as i dont have pacey centre backs in my squad, since dropping the line back i am coping a little better, is the assistant best ignored in this instance?

same applies with his continuous comments about the midfield not supporting the lone striker. i am switching the mentality from normal to attacking dependant on the strength of my opponents.

thanks for any further thoughts on this

[Cleon]

Cleon, what would you setup with regards to a scot report as followes bearing in mind im arsenal and expected to win. I normally start off attacking then reverting to a control formation later on if im either winning or am not converting my chances.

"x likes to play possession football and y will look to get the ball down and play it. midfield are good on the ball and can create chances."

I'd start with my normal approach and see how it goes and change based on what I see.

[Cleon]

however the goalkeeper is still kicking most balls out of play as our my full backs and occasionally even my wingers! this may just be due to there poor stats though!

You could put him on short passing and specify 'defender collect' and name a defender to do it maybe?

also my assistant manager is commenting every game that the gap between my defence and midfield is to big. However when i held the defensive line high i was struggling as i dont have pacey centre backs in my squad, since dropping the line back i am coping a little better, is the assistant best ignored in this instance?

If you are playing better how you set up rather than how he thinks, then yes ignore him

same applies with his continuous comments about the midfield not supporting the lone striker. i am switching the mentality from normal to attacking dependant on the strength of my opponents.

Seem's to me like you already are trying different things and seeing what works best for certain scenarios.

[mag man]

I find that using Cleons change to the mentalities of the CB's gets rid of the comment from the ass. man. regarding the gap.

[Arsenal71]

I'd start with my normal approach and see how it goes and change based on what I see.

Your normal approach being a 'standard' setup eg general mentality,tempo d-line on mixed?

[jbarnsie]

silly question probably but defender collects what stats should i be looking for?

thanks again thats the one thing im struggling with a bit , the stats you mention i should use to pick players in certain positions are not stats my players excel in

still its a great challenge

all the best

[Creppin]

Cleon, I just want to thank you for breathing new life into my FM experience. I have been playing ever since CM2, but even though I have had each version since, have found the going tough on 08 and 09. I now am fully understanding my scouting reports, and rather than make wholesale tactical changes, I tweak my tactics here and there.

I made my changes after the Palace defeat, and my results have improved ever since i became more "simple".

I even managed to come back from 1-0 away at Barnsley with 3 minutes to go, by only making minor tweaks and not panicking.

[Cleon]

Your normal approach being a 'standard' setup eg general mentality,tempo d-line on mixed?

However I normally like to play, so use the settings I prefer. For example the games I don't change anything for they are my normal approach.

silly question probably but defender collects what stats should i be looking for?

thanks again thats the one thing im struggling with a bit , the stats you mention i should use to pick players in certain positions are not stats my players excel in

still its a great challenge

all the best

Composure, decisions and good passing really. That's about it.

Cleon, I just want to thank you for breathing new life into my FM experience. I have been playing ever since CM2, but even though I have had each version since, have found the going tough on 08 and 09. I now am fully understanding my scouting reports, and rather than make wholesale tactical changes, I tweak my tactics here and there.

I made my changes after the Palace defeat, and my results have improved ever since i became more "simple".

I even managed to come back from 1-0 away at Barnsley with 3 minutes to go, by only making minor tweaks and not panicking.

Glad you're having success

[jbarnsie]

thats my main issue really my two highest rated passers in my squad (midfielders) have passing stats of 11

i have both of them set to pass short and the rest to go long, i have noticed an increase in good passing moves since my switch to 4-5-1

[Cleon]

thats my main issue really my two highest rated passers in my squad (midfielders) have passing stats of 11

i have both of them set to pass short and the rest to go long, i have noticed an increase in good passing moves since my switch to 4-5-1

You tried leaving them set on mixed?

[jbarnsie]

would you suggest just leaving those 2 on mixed and team on direct?

thanks

[Cleon]

would you suggest just leaving those 2 on mixed and team on direct?

thanks

It's worth a try and see how that goes

[jbarnsie]

just some further observations after just watching a match all the way through

the keeper tweak worked that game thanks

the full backs still more often than not just whack it out of play

in the whole game i commited 5 offsides, seems a little high just playing one striker?

thanks again

[kierokiero]

Your probably best going into more detail in your own thread for me. I don't have the time to download the tactic and see the instruction in game myself sorry.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=88108

I have update the thread with links to images. Hope this is convenient. If not, I can give a textual description.

Thank you.

[Dargone]

I found a way that has worked really well to be honest. Here it is:-

targetman type striker

ment - 12

Creative freedom - 15

passing - 12

c/down - team

tackling - normal

pacy type striker

ment - team (attacking group of players)

creative freedom - little (I just want him through the middle)

passing - short to normal

c/down - team

tackling - easy

fwd runs - mixed to often (depending on off the ball stat)

run with ball - mixed

Long shots -rarely

through balls and crossing -mixed

These settings have done wonders for me so far in the championship. I don't know what it will be like in the prem though

I hope it helps you. I'll keep you informed what happens in the prem.

Cool, so is your target man the deep-lying forward then?

[ron.e]

Cleon - I need your advice. I started my first season in the prem with the same tactic that i used in the championship. It started to work in the first 4 games where i conceeded 4 goals but now in a total of 9 games i've conceeded 13 goals and i'm being ripped to shreds to be honest. So i've decided to do something radical and switch formation to 4-2-3-1. The idea is to keep my cb's protected while trying to impose myself further up the field. My ass manager is saying 'team are blending well together'. I played one game so far against fulham away from home and won 1-0. Do you think i should persist with this formation just until my squad gets used to the prem, or do you think it's a big mistake? Thanks

[Cleon]

Cleon - I need your advice. I started my first season in the prem with the same tactic that i used in the championship. It started to work in the first 4 games where i conceeded 4 goals but now in a total of 9 games i've conceeded 13 goals and i'm being ripped to shreds to be honest. So i've decided to do something radical and switch formation to 4-2-3-1. The idea is to keep my cb's protected while trying to impose myself further up the field. My ass manager is saying 'team are blending well together'. I played one game so far against fulham away from home and won 1-0. Do you think i should persist with this formation just until my squad gets used to the prem, or do you think it's a big mistake? Thanks

Use which ever you think will get you the results. Are you going to struggle badly playing how you did when you was in the Championship?

[Shapolio32]

hi cleon;

i read your "project" and have found it very usefull...

i couldnt read sth there;

its about cutting the passsing lines of opposition and gaining the control of the ball..

cuz we all know that taking the control of ball is not only "tackling" the opp. player..

its harder way to tackle as we know..

simplest way is "cutting the passing lines"

ok, it depends of player att.s like anticipation, pace, desicions, determination..

but what can we do tactically? i am so eager for your advice...

thanks..

[ron.e]

Use which ever you think will get you the results. Are you going to struggle badly playing how you did when you was in the Championship?

I think i would suffer more if i carried on using that same formation. It felt like i was too open even though i did manage to get a 2-2 draw away to man utd. I was just wondering what you thought of it or if you've ever done that before youself.

[Dargone]

I think i would suffer more if i carried on using that same formation. It felt like i was too open even though i did manage to get a 2-2 draw away to man utd. I was just wondering what you thought of it or if you've ever done that before youself.

Could it, maybe, be your players, after all you are in the Premiership now?

[ron.e]

yes that what i thought and also i've bought about 5 players for the prem. I'm going to wait until the team have attained a good understanding, then i may switch back to the old tactic

[Dargone]

yes that what i thought and also i've bought about 5 players for the prem. I'm going to wait until the team have attained a good understanding, then i may switch back to the old tactic

That's what I would wager. If the tactic was working well in the Champions League then it should work well in the Premiership. I would assume (and we know where that can get you) that your players are now playing in a much more competitive/tougher atmosphere which will make success harder. Also, you brought in 5 new players so they need time to gel.

I think most of us have a tendency to make massive tactical changes when things go wrong and I'm, for one, trying to adopt Cleon's less is more approach with all my current games.

[Dargone]

Thanks for all the help with setting up a deep-lying forward. You guys think it makes sense to make him a target man or is that a case by case basis? How about holding up the ball?

[furlo2007]

Cleon are you attending your own press conferences this season because they are really getting on my nerves repeating themselves all the time, would it make that much difference to send asistant?

[ron.e]

Thanks for all the help with setting up a deep-lying forward. You guys think it makes sense to make him a target man or is that a case by case basis? How about holding up the ball?

yeah you could make him a targetman. If he has strenght 15+ then i would instruct him to hold up ball. If he's a skillful striker then targetman instruction mixed. If he has a beast in the air -heading and jumping 16+ then instruct to his head. I hope that helps. I don't know how important height is in this game though.

[Cleon]

Cleon are you attending your own press conferences this season because they are really getting on my nerves repeating themselves all the time, would it make that much difference to send asistant?

Leave to assistant they **** me off as well

[TheOneRedDevil]

Hi, nice thread ive only been playing fm since 07 but have never really won much except for with man utd. So im trying out your theory with the mighty Leicester. Only played 3 games but

Won 1-0 Away Oldham

Won 2-1 Away Bury

Won 1-0 Away Hartlepool

not the best results but they are all three points, especially since they were all away.

Anyway, the thing i wanted to ask was is it possible for you to post up the set peice routines you use? as mine never seem to work.

Thanks, keep it up

[ron.e]

cleon - I've decided to stick with my 4-4-2 and see it out no matter what. I've got a general tactical theme that i'm using at the moment which is to defend deep and hit teams on the break. I've got pace in attack so i think it will work. Even though i have signed lots of players in the summer, i have 'team have attained a good level of understanding' already which i am pleased about. These are my results since

And the good thing is, i'm upto 11th in the table. Wicked!!!

I've even trying my own little experiements at the moment. Giving strikers no creative freedom what so ever to see how they act. I'm finally at the stage where i'm willing to be open-minded and not just download tactics and run with them. So thanks for this thread. I will keep you posted at the end of my season.

[qadsawee79]

Dear Cleon ... First of all I would like to thank you for restoring my faith in my tactical abilities .. Second of all I would like to thank you for all the effort that you are putting in these threads to simplify things for us .. I did my project "Chelsea Project" and i will show you how your insight moved me and made me love the game again .. I'll show you my status report and I'll leave the judgment for you ... I just want to mention that I used the same tactical layout that you have used not because i am copying but because i like it ... i use a deeper defensive line with Carvalho acting as a libero which i discovered that this setting killed many of the through balls that AI usually play to skin CB's

I will leave you with the pictures

Thanks Again !!

And God bless you.

forgive my bad language I am from Kuwait so bear with me

[Dirty_ACE]

Cleon, I was wondering why you never customized the individual instructions according to your players' ability? I understand that it probably was not really necessary when you were still in the Championship but now that you're in the EPL, wouldn't you want more out of your players? The reason I ask this is that I've downloaded you first season and took a look at the players you were using and for example your right fullback has terrible crossing, yet in his instructions it was set for him to cross often. I know it was a default setting, but will you be changing something like this in the future to fit the player's skills? Or are you basically trying to play a specific system, where fullbacks have to always cross, or like wingers have to always run with ball, no matter their skills?

One more question Noticed you've only put up a couple scout reports (when you played Man U and Everton) in your thread. Do you generally not pay much attention to what the reports say and go by what is going on the pitch in your match, or do you use the reports only for special occasions?