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The Lost Season 4 thread *for episodes aired in the US/abc.com* *season 3 spoilers and a mid-season cut-off guranteed*

rosslarkin

By rosslarkin,
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LokedOut420

LokedOut420

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What about a cloud of black smoke that tries to pull people down into a hole or slams them into trees? Can you accept that?

Or a plane splitting in half at altitude and having loads of people survive?

Its a television show. Take it as that.

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Nucampe

Nucampe

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Originally posted by RedRob:

Inconsequential?

The variables weren't the variables he had it set at, they were the variables to get his machine to work.

How did he know they were the right variables when he suddenly became convinced this wasn't a prank? He had to check first! He only knew that the numbers presented to him made sense in relation to his work.

Originally posted by RedRob:

Oh, and how would they have got the name of his rat?

Listen at his door? Read his notes? Any number of reasons that a sensible person would think about before they reluctantly admitted that the person in front of them was a time traveller.

Originally posted by LokedOut420:

What about a cloud of black smoke that tries to pull people down into a hole or slams them into trees? Can you accept that?

Or a plane splitting in half at altitude and having loads of people survive?

Its a television show. Take it as that.

If it's a supposedly scientific machine producing it, then no. If it's a spell, or a spirit, or something like that, then yes. I expect something that is represented as scientific to have a plausible explanation. If it doesn't have an explanation, then it's lazy doesn't make sense.

As for the plane splitting in half, that's a very good example. If the writers choose to explain that, then it can still make sense. If it's an oversight on the part of the special effects guys, then it's still a mistake and one that people will overanalyse on a programme like Lost. However, special effects monkeys are far less important to the programme than writers, and if writers make mistakes they mean a lot more than if images aren't strictly accurate. That's why 'people's personalities can be transported in time by a machine assembled in an Oxford undergrad's office' is more important that the image of a plane tearing in half.

'It's a television show' doesn't mean that complete insanity and implausibility can be excused. If the finale of the show was 'it was all a dream' people would be rightfully aggrieved, not just shrug and say 'it's a television show.'

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Jongi

Jongi

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Posted
Originally posted by Nucampe:

'It's a television show' doesn't mean that complete insanity and implausibility can be excused. If the finale of the show was 'it was all a dream' people would be rightfully aggrieved, not just shrug and say 'it's a television show.'

i still remember that season of dallas icon_frown.gif

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The_Fish

The_Fish

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Lost is brilliant brilliant entertainment. I watch it as entertainment, and don't worry too much about the believability of certain things. There is enough of that already, the time travel being conscious and not physical actually is better for me personally.

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Fred_the_Red

Fred_the_Red

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After season 2 I always thought that the whole island is just a mere imagination that Hugo has dream't up since he has schizophrenia.

Can't think who or what Jacob is. Unless I've not come across that yet.

But the whole mind time travelling thing just doesn't cut it with me.

I just think the island has some kind of magical properties due to where it is situated on Earth. All the magnetic forces just makes things abnormal.

The Dharma Initiative are just researchers that discovered this and are trying to harness the magnetic forces into good use.

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McMaster#28

McMaster#28

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Originally posted by RedRob:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't see how you can base the date on the island on anything.. except if you take the above theory - that time on the island and off the island is always the same it's just the journey off the island which can take you out of synch - to be true.

the theory posted by rosslarkin goes way beyound that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, true I had only read the the theory here about the forks in the road before I posted it icon_smile.gif

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McMaster#28

McMaster#28

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Having read that theory not sure I agree completly.

Yes I understand what he says about Dharma wanting to test to see if Polar Bears could live away from their natural habitat. Why then speculate the polar bears were sent back in time so they are "partially invincible".

The theory posted before with the example of forks in the road was much more plausible.

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Santa, look at my pert ars

Santa, look at my pert ars

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Posted
Originally posted by Andrew K:

Does Slampa still participate in Lost threads? I'd like to hear his take on the whole consciousness time traveling idea.

There was a Russian scientist a few months back, who apparently showed that it could be possible to build a time machine that you could go back to, i.e., if you build it in 2010, then if you were in 2020, you could go back to 2010, or 2014, but not 2009. This method of time travel is different from most previously postulated ones, in that a wormhole is not required. I haven't read the paper so don't know much more, but I'd assume it handles photons and things like that, and not sure if it can handle heavier particles.

For the consciousness time travel, I'm not sure why that would happen. If consciousness is just a quantum state of our mind, or just a configuration of electrons and the electrical signals, or the chemicals in our brain, then how can that be transferred to the past?

I suppose it could be possible that, in the Lost machine, electrons are extremely light, and heavier particles cannot time travel. So our brain configuration can be sent backwards, but not our whole bodies.

Although then, would lighter particles be sent back, such as photons? You would assume so. Does Miles see a ghost when he's in that room talking to the kid? I don't remember, but if there's some sort of image, then it could be some of the photons somehow traveling. Although thinking about it, I suppose he would have to travel backwards, so maybe he does that and is able to speak to people before they die. Possible that Smokey is the manifestation of some photons and other particles that have sent been back?

Anyway, I'm not sure why electrons would be able to time travel, but not heavier particles. It would be understandable if it were just photons, since they have no mass, but if you can send a bunch electrons back, why not a bunch of protons or neutrons?

Additionally, I'm not sure how Demond's situation could be explained, where his mind jumps back into the previous state, or vice versa.

Personally, I'm skeptical that there will ever be any time travel; causality always seems to hold up.

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bigdunk

bigdunk

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I was just thinking, was there anything in that episode that tells us definitely that there was time travel involved? All we know for sure is that desmond believes he was travelling back in time, but could it just be all in his head, retreating into his own memories as it were. The only bit of information he pulls out of nowhere is penny's phone number, but since he has no memories post 1996 at this point, she could have quite easily given it to him after this point. All the other information that moves between times goes the other way, i.e. desmond telling daniel the machine settings and about eloise etc and since daniel appears to have some kind of memory loss, he's in no position to corroborate desmonds story.

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bigdunk

bigdunk

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Originally posted by Andrew K:

Daniel's "Desmond is your constant" note suggests it wasn't in Desmond's head.

All that suggests is that Daniel believes what Desmond is saying, but again, he's a very unreliable person because of his memory problems. Who's to say when he wrote that note, he could have written it after talking on the phone to desmond and then forgotten.

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Nucampe

Nucampe

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The writers probably needed the device of offering a third space on the flight but didn't actually want anyone else coming off the island, so they put a corpse there to excuse the ridiculous 'weight' argument.

That's another thing I forgot to moan about - in proportion to the weight of an entire helicopter, how significant can one 80kg person be in fuel consumption? I didn't believe that either, it's a device lifted straight from other films/TV to limit the number of people on the helicopter. Lazy writing.

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LokedOut420

LokedOut420

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by The_Fish:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sean_oc16:

What happened to Naomi? No mention of her was made at all during the episode.

Er, she's dead mate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he's referring to the fact that nobody on the freighter mentioned anything about her being dead when they landed.

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sean_oc16

sean_oc16

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Originally posted by LokedOut420:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Fish:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sean_oc16:

What happened to Naomi? No mention of her was made at all during the episode.

Er, she's dead mate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he's referring to the fact that nobody on the freighter mentioned anything about her being dead when they landed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. Sayid made the point of taking her back on the helicopter with them but nothing was said of her when they landed.

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champa

champa

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Originally posted by RedRob:

No, because it was his conciousness that travelled in time. Like the mouse, there was only one.

But then surely he would remember daniel faraday?

I always thought Lost would be a program which in THEORY could happen, however longwinded and seriously unlikely - there could be an explanation for everything. but after this episode i feel that its taken more of a sci-fi twist, any sort of time travel is clearly not something that COULD happen

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josh_b

josh_b

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Time travel is theoretically possible.

Accept that Electrons can act as particles and waves. It turns from wave into a particle when a conscious observer views it. Now get two cats and place them in a box with a bomb that is set to go off when an electron particle is detected. Release one free electron into the box, split the box in half with one cat with the bomb and one cat without. The electrons location is uknown and unobserved.

Now seal both boxes and send them off in opposite directions for many lightyears. The box with the bomb is opened all those years later and the result is observed:whether the bomb has gone off or not. If the bomb has gone off then the electron will have been in that box and when it was observed, the signal of observation had been sent back in time to turn the electron from a wave to a particle.

*Paraphrased from memory of a book I didn't read completely called Schrodingers kittens, which is based on the Schrodingers Cat theory.

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Andrew K

Andrew K

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Originally posted by Santa, look at my pert arse!:

There was a Russian scientist a few months back, who apparently showed that it could be possible to build a time machine that you could go back to, i.e., if you build it in 2010, then if you were in 2020, you could go back to 2010, or 2014, but not 2009. This method of time travel is different from most previously postulated ones, in that a wormhole is not required. I haven't read the paper so don't know much more, but I'd assume it handles photons and things like that, and not sure if it can handle heavier particles.

For the consciousness time travel, I'm not sure why that would happen. If consciousness is just a quantum state of our mind, or just a configuration of electrons and the electrical signals, or the chemicals in our brain, then how can that be transferred to the past?

I suppose it could be possible that, in the Lost machine, electrons are extremely light, and heavier particles cannot time travel. So our brain configuration can be sent backwards, but not our whole bodies.

Although then, would lighter particles be sent back, such as photons? You would assume so. Does Miles see a ghost when he's in that room talking to the kid? I don't remember, but if there's some sort of image, then it could be some of the photons somehow traveling. Although thinking about it, I suppose he would have to travel backwards, so maybe he does that and is able to speak to people before they die. Possible that Smokey is the manifestation of some photons and other particles that have sent been back?

Anyway, I'm not sure why electrons would be able to time travel, but not heavier particles. It would be understandable if it were just photons, since they have no mass, but if you can send a bunch electrons back, why not a bunch of protons or neutrons?

Additionally, I'm not sure how Demond's situation could be explained, where his mind jumps back into the previous state, or vice versa.

Personally, I'm skeptical that there will ever be any time travel; causality always seems to hold up.

Thanks. icon14.gif

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LokedOut420

LokedOut420

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Now that it has been confirmed to be Widmore's boat, I'm wondering whether or not the people working for him on the boat have been given specific instructions on what to do with Desmond.

Not quite as fb as last week, but still a good episode. Creepy Ben in Juliette's flashback was quite an interesting development in Ben's psyche.

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Andrew K

Andrew K

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Any guesses on Ben's man on the boat? Michael seems the logical one, but how about Sayid? Sure, he wasn't on the boat when Ben said he had somebody on it, but he's not exactly truthful and is Jedi-esque in anticipating events.

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Rekwob Toille

Rekwob Toille

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Posted
Originally posted by Andrew K:

Any guesses on Ben's man on the boat? Michael seems the logical one, but how about Sayid? Sure, he wasn't on the boat when Ben said he had somebody on it, but he's not exactly truthful and is Jedi-esque in anticipating events.

michael got sent off on a boat 3-4 weeks ago with his kid and no reason to help ben again, so i just cant see why it can be him other than everyone knows hes returning this season. if its him it'll be the first time im really disappointed with a twist in lost, unless they show some flashbacks that make some sense out of it pretty quickly, unless ive missed why hes the logical one

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Annihilator666

Annihilator666

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Posted
Originally posted by Rekwob Toille:

michael got sent off on a boat 3-4 weeks ago with his kid and no reason to help ben again, so i just cant see why it can be him other than everyone knows hes returning this season. if its him it'll be the first time im really disappointed with a twist in lost, unless they show some flashbacks that make some sense out of it pretty quickly, unless ive missed why hes the logical one

Well, they've been building up to the naming of the man on the boat for weeks, which means it has to be a known character rather than someone new. That only leaves Michael, Frank or Faraday.

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