ceefax the cat

This is one area of the game where I'm happy to use the in-game editor. The way positions work is incredibly unrealistic and doesn't really make sense. If I want my creative, dribbling, deep lying, right footed striker to play as second striker or left inside forward, that really shouldn't require more than a few training sessions and some familiarity with the system. The idea of him being literally as clueless in those positions as if I'd asked him to play DM is just daft, as is the idea that he'll somehow forget how to do it if I subsequently ask him to play somewhere else. If he's got the attributes for it and is clearly the type of player who'd thrive in that position, I say a bit of ethical editing is fine. I'm not waiting months for him to be deemed above average when he knows the system inside out, his attributes for the role are perfect and he's playing there every week! Playing in a slightly different position isn't some mystical, months-long odyssey where you have to carry a lily to the top of a mountain and defeat a monk.

It'd be really helpful to have a list of season end dates by country for this, so you can look at data from past seasons. It's pretty annoying that FM scrubs all stats at the end of each season and makes it impossible to scout by performance. Even with a list of season end dates, you're looking at exporting from FM quite a few times each season to get complete data. Madness

Fine - you'll build up into a 3-2-5 shape. Might be a little predictable but ultimately comes down to the quality of your front 5. Use a libero or WCB to make it a 2-3-5 or 2-2-6 and add a bit of fluidity if you like.

If you play like that in every game I'll be quite surprised if you don't periodically have your arse handed to you by whichever attacker you're leaving free... I might be wrong. Maybe with the right players and instructions you can just impose yourself on the opposition no matter what. For example, use gegenpressing and it seems you can just automatically win the Champions League with Nantwich.

They generally shouldn't be getting too far forward unless there's an IWB or something to add cover in the middle. The obvious shape to build up into would be 3-2-5, or 2-3-5 with a libero, so a DLP and a ballwinner would probably be the orthodox choice. When playing against a 4-4-2 I play 5-2-3 with an CM(s) and an AP(s), but the advanced playmaker is instructed to man-mark their deepest centre mid. the CM(s) is told to hold position, and marks the other one.

In theory it should be possible to put together a sort of modular approach for this, a bit like @Vince Lombardi did with his NFL-style playbook. The style of play is pretty much set, it's just a question of finding the best way of marking every possible opposing role/duty

WTM are fun. Good for floated crosses to the far post. They don't really do what they're supposed to but I use them quite a lot. To make the most of one, try something like a mezzala to get close to him, a wingback overlapping on the outside to take a defender away and someone on the opposite side with good winger skills. And get your keeper to aim for him because he'll likely dominate his fullback in the air. Maybe build up on his side in order to give the opposite winger space to cross when the ball is switched. An overlap on the opposite side wouldn't hurt either. Whatever it takes to get that floated cross in

I dunno... enjoy having a range of tools at your disposal and use them differently depending on the situation? Have the wb overlap when appropriate, have him support the winger at other times? Occasionally send them both forward and overload that side? Why do you need to play the same way throughout every match?

He'll do what you ask him to. If you ask a bricklayer to make a cup of tea - even a really good bricklayer - he's unlikely to feel the need to put bricks in it

There's no harm in setting him as a target man - the team will occasionally use him - just don't expect him to be the focal point of your buildup because they won't use him THAT much.

They should be much more common for teams trying to play high-risk, short passing football. It's much too easy to gegenpress and juego de posicion your way to glory currently.

On the front page near this one

The Rehhagel thread might be of interest. I'm using tight man-marking as my main weapon to win games.

Having spent a lot of time on this: trying to play really directly on FM24 basically doesn't work. The best you can hope for is the occasional cross from deep and having your goalkeeper aim for the target man. You will never persuade your team to use him as their primary way of getting the ball up the pitch. Do something else.

Cheers Rashidi. I think this might be quite an extreme way of doing it tbh. You could probably just go man-for-man in the middle of midfield and leave it at that, or carefully mark their best 1 or 2 creative players and leave the rest to themselves. But this is much more satisfying when it works - literally making a plan to take their best 9 players out of the game. The ambition is to make it more direct, more defensive and win just by snuffing the opposition out in every game and punishing them with a carefully placed free man or just overwhelming speed and physical power once they lose the ball. The squad is full of wonderkids (like every other squad which makes them seem a lot less wondrous), a few of whom are playmaker types, so maybe we're getting to the point where we sell them for tens of millions and start assembling the very best man-markers, crossers, sprinters, jumpers and headers in the game to take the style to its extreme. I don't think you need more than 1 playmaker on the pitch for this, really. If any.

Inspired by reading about Rehhagel's Bremen, Kaiserslautern and (especially) Greece sides, I decided to adopt an old-fashioned man-marking approach to FM, and it's proved to be a really satisfying way to play. It's a bit time-consuming though. Rather than settling on one killer tactic and then hammering the space bar like a monkey, it demands a bespoke setup for each game and an immediate response to any changes the opposition make to their shape. It's almost like using some kind of 'football management' simulator. The basic principles are: Whatever formation the opposition attack in, we man-mark them, mirroring their front line and midfield and adding a spare defender at the back (which leaves them with a spare defender too). So if they play 4-4-2, in theory we play 3-4-3, with a covering defender in between their strikers. In reality, what's important is the shape they arrive at once they get the ball, so things like liberos, segundo volantes and inverted wingbacks need to be taken into account. We need concentration, work rate, positioning, teamwork and, most of all, MARKING. When we get the ball, we attack as directly as we can, before they can get back into their defensive shape. The attacking focus is less on creativity and more on physical strength and athleticism - rapid attacks, early crosses, players capable of getting into the box and winning headers. As far as instructions in FM go: Man mark their entire team except centre backs, and have a spare defender. Against really big sides, leave their centre backs alone and have an extra man in midfield too (still working on getting that right) Also vs big clubs: sometimes I'll leave an area of the pitch zonal, taking advantage of the extra man in midfield. For example, playing two tight marking DM's against a star AM who moves all over the place with a segundo volante arriving in the same zone. If they have a centre back who's dodgy on the ball, show his partner inside and leave the dodgy one alone. Against a lone striker, just use opposition instructions to specify that he should always be marked, and put two central defenders on him. One of them will always be free. It'd be great to be able to play a proper sweeper/stopper combo against a lone striker but the SW strata no longer exists so it doesn't really work. Almost always a high line of engagement (I want midfielders to follow their man into their half), but very sparing use of closing down, eg the whole back 4 and midfield will often be told to mark tighter but close down less. Just focus on man-marking. Attackers and wingbacks will sometimes have extra closing down duties. Standard defensive line unless they're clearly incapable of running behind (bit higher). Use 'Trap Outside' / 'Trap Inside' to match up with their attacking width and help your man-markers get closer. Still getting the hang of this. 'Step up' more if possible, to make sure everybody's marked tightly. If we're up against great off-the-ball movement and pace, we'll back off a little. If we're favourites, sometimes move one of the front 3 or 4 into space. Makes it harder for him to track his man but correspondingly harder for his man to get to him, which is worth it if we're dominating in most other areas. Since it's a reactive style: Always more disciplined, always playing for set pieces and pretty keen to waste time unless we're clear favourites. Always regroup, always counter unless trying to kill the game. Always more direct or very direct passing Mentality standard. Cautious if the game is too open. Positive if we're clearly better. Either fairly narrow + quicker tempo, or standard width + standard tempo. Tune it in each game so that you're attacking as quickly as possible while still connecting passes and finding space. This approach can result in some slightly unusual formations. For example, Hannover played a 4-4-2 with an inverted fullback which meant I ended up with this: I like to send at least one fullback forward to give them something to do think about, and the inverted fullback offered a good chance to do that. When they lose the ball, he's left with the choice of staying with the attacker who's been marking him and leaving a space to overlap into, or going back into position and leaving the no. 10 free. Later, they turned him into a straight FB but I left the AM in place - he's capable of covering the distance and tracking back on the wing, and it still gives the fullback that dilemma. Their Christmas Tree necessitates a narrow 4-2-3-1 / 4-2-2-2 type thing, with the wingbacks marking their opposite numbers. I took a risk leaving a space for their mezzala to run into, but it was worth it to get my wingback close to theirs, and give them a headache whenever Drosos got free with the mezzala nowhere to be seen. In general, especially against weaker sides, using man-marking to force players to track out of position can be quite a nice weapon. The AI probably won't do the same back, so your chap will be free in possession while theirs won't. Had Vitor Gabriel been a star player / not totally knackered by the time I made this change though, it could have backfired. All in all, I highly recommend playing in this reactive way. It's more immersive and feels a lot more like actually managing games. When the marking clicks, it results in some incredibly low xG ratings for the opposition. I quite frequently get to 30 - 40 mins with them on 0.00 or something very close to it. On the other hand, if I make a mistake I'm quite likely to concede in the first 3 minutes thanks to an attacker being absolutely wide open, so it pays to watch the first few minutes extremely carefully.

I'm sure you're right and there are barely any hardcore hoofball enthusiasts, but the game as a whole would be waaaay richer and make more sense if it was easier to play simple football with average players than to implement the most intricate, risky, technically challenging and physically demanding form of the sport ever invented. Gegenpressing being a shortcut to success makes absolutely no sense and robs the game of so much. That it's way harder to succeed and get a good system going if you play simply and without risk is just totally arse-about-face. I'm not even really after extreme hoofball tbh. Just a no-frills, direct approach as seen played by non-elite teams all over the world, all the time. Two banks of four and stick crosses in when you get the chance. Kind of the default setting for football at most levels.

I've even tried using the in-game editor to add traits like 'Crosses Early'. Nope. Pass down the line, pass inside, cross if you get to the byline. As for keepers repeatedly aiming long kicks at the diminutive poacher, I've found that you either play 2 aerially dominant forwards, or use the IGE to make your poacher a shadow striker, so they're making runs from behind and around the TM and are no longer the furthest player forward when possession is won. Even then, your keeper will quite regularly hit the SS but perhaps not with the same mind-numbing regularity as before. The keeper is so reluctant just to punt it in the general direction of the TM that I end up asking him to roll it out, in the hope a defender will do it instead. Nah. They'd prefer to channel f**king De Zerbi and work it slowly along the back four. You'd never in a million years guess from watching the game that their instructions are to be more disciplined, much more direct with a much higher tempo. Your Azerbaijan 2nd tier back four thinks it's playing in Serie A. The only players who come close to doing what they're asked to with this style are defensive wingers, who tend to put a cross in as soon as they get past their man. Give a wide midfielder all of the same instructions and.... nope. So you're stuck with a player who will constantly get booked or sent off, who closes down more than you might want him to and is disqualified from other potentially handy instructions. I tried for a while to get a winger to cut inside and hit inswinging crosses from deep, the way an inverted winger in a defensive, target man-based system might regularly do. Sit narrower, cut inside, cross from deep, direct passing, aim for Target Forward, take more risks etc.... Naturally you find that they most often end up going to the byline on their weaker foot and either crossing badly from there or passing it back to the cross-shy fullback who'd rather work it tentatively across midfield despite there being a massive lummox standing at the far post. NCB will occasionally smash it long but even then, it's quite a rare event and they're in no way inclined to aim for the target man.. Ask the same League Two clogger to play as a rotating libero in a system that shifts to a gegenpressing 3-2-5 in possession though, and you're on, zero training required. This game is fun when it occasionally clicks but really you're looking at one style of play and the further you get from high pressing, possession based football, the more the match engine just seems to break down and ignore you.

Exporting stats like this should be a lot easier to do in FM. Unfortunately it wipes all historical stats at the beginning of each season, which makes a mockery of any attempts to scout using actual performance rather than scout opinion and star ratings. It'd be amazing if future versions of the game offered meaningful historical data for export.

I find the GK's special move is to repeatedly hit accurate long kicks towards the 5'6" poacher on the other side of the field.

I'm at the point of giving up with true hoofball for this year, really. You can have passing set to extremely direct, tempo very high, yadda yadda yadda and they just will not pump it to the big man or float lots of crosses in from deep. I just see the same patterns of play over and over, none of which I've actually requested. If anyone has had any success playing route 1 to an aerially dominant TM then I'd love to know how because I feel like I've tried basically every set of tactical instructions that could be interpreted that way. With passing absolutely maxed out, I'm still seeing wingbacks getting it in space and then just passing inside, or a wide playmaker with oceans in front of him lay it back to the fullback. There's absolutely nothing I can do to make them simply hang it up at the edge of the box where the TARGET effing MAN is standing with a poacher ready to feed off him. The palette of passes available to even the most direct fullback is either to pass it up the line, sideways into midfield, or back to the centre half. If he tries an ambitious long pass, it's likely to be an attempt to switch play by smashing it across your exposed midfield. The closest I can get is that a TM(s) will drop off, usually incredibly deep, to win a loose ball and pass it back to the defenders, achieving a territorial gain of precisely 0 yards. The idea of a flick-on, or a knockdown, or otherwise bringing his teammates into play higher up the field, seems alien to him. Set him to TM(a) and watch him disappear completely from your life until, at the end of a tedious, bog standard short passing move, he arrives on the end of a cross. High percentage passes all the way, no matter what you say. If anyone can reliably make the first phase of their attack a long ball with support for the TM, answers on a postcard please. I feel like the game expects you to play short passing, pressing football with overlaps and crosses from the byline, and if you deviate from those instructions then basically you'll see your players continue to play short passing football, but quite badly.

I like playing defensively and I'm thinking the most defensive thing I could possibly do might be to make my fullbacks WCB's and my wingers wingbacks, with a halfback as my second central defender. So attack as a 4-4-2, defend as a 5-3-2. Could be fun. Or even pull one of the strikers out to the wing, or to SS, and defend as a 5-4-1

I most often use 'defensive' as a way to address the problem of players constantly hitting daft Hollywood passes to nowhere and losing possession. I'm more likely to use it if I'm actually trying to dominate the game and do what most would describe as 'attacking'. I most often use 'attacking' to encourage players to try low percentage passes / runs from the back, as an underdog, doing what most would describe as 'defending'.

It would be so helpful to ditch 'mentality' for a start, and then just have instructions with explanations and visual aids that simply, literally do what they say they are doing, rather than the car crash of describing tempo as 'slightly slower than a standard team, assuming a very attacking mentality, assuming more direct passing', for example. Absolutely nobody would ever describe a football team that way.

I'm not feeling lost as such.... been playing a long time... I just think the interface when it comes to tactics is pointlessly opaque and needs to be ditched.