toshimitzou1

If the results are fine what is the problem? RE: Regroup: You have a few players 'roaming from position (both CWB's, and CF)' and you have a very bottom heavy formation. For me , the 'regroup' instruction will just distract your players from affecting your tactic as they could be regrouping from quite alien positions. Plus you have many bodies back, regroup feels like overkill. Defensive line: Either your player or opponent dependent. Question: How are the CWB's? I've not chosen them in 5atb before as I am concerned that 'roams from position' on the only wide outlets could be detrimental.

Yeah, the 41212-Narrow was an epic **** show. No point having four central players if you're bypassing them with your tactical approach!

Not going to lie. I've been testing 41212 Narrow all week and it is awful for Direct Counter-Attack. The lack of width makes the counter very one dimensional. As @Cloud9 said, it's far more suited to a fluid counter attack. However, as a result of a week of testing, I have decided to go with a 442 DM set up. I've tested it last night and will run it for a season and see what transpires. I'm going to maintain the Defensive mentality but offer up two variants. Our reputation is much higher now so for the most part it will be counter attacking on the front foot with higher lines. Of course, in big matches against similar or better teams, the pragmatic mid-block will take precedence. As @Cloud9 specified, I am constantly ensuring my players are high in concentration and aggression. I'll report back.

442 can be tough. I've found success by both stopping supply and changing defensive duties. When running the 433 DM I'd stick a cover duty on the CB on the side of the opposition's attacking striker. I would then add PI Man Mark the other striker to your DM. Of course your players need to be capable but this has helped me multiple times against elite 442's. Also, watching the match helps. Here is an example of adjusting to a 442: https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/557922-the-fm22-youth-academy-challenge/?do=findComment&comment=13670605

@Cloud9 Got eager and thought of this. Don't worry about personnel, I can recruit if needed.

Ah, now this has peaked my interest. Got to be honest. Loaded up a pilot save with the 41212 narrow I'd set up and I was disappointed. The RPM was effective but the overall counter- attacking intention was stymied due to the 'magnet' nature you specified. However, with the RPM in a flat DM 3 this could prove effective. Before I cobble something together for testing, would you deem the RPM off centre or central in the DM 3? NB: The defensive mentality is a shoe- in and won't be changed. It's the main reason I am enjoying this playthrough. Direct courter attack or go home!

When I arrive at a club there are two ways you can go: 1) Implement your own style and from here recruit and train appropriately. or 2) Assess your squad, their strengths and weaknesses and build from there. Your question pertains to number 2) and all of the advice given so far is sound, especially with regards, to media prediction of finish For me however, I believe the best tool is the squad comparison tab in the Analyst report. My team is predicted to finish 3rd and here is what I would do if I just arrived at the club and I wanted to use your approach. In the first instance, to get an accurate comparison with the other teams in the division, ensure your first team squad contains only players that will be getting ample game time (you can ghost save and move some players out of the squad for comparison purposes). From here you can get a good look at what your team is capable of. Here is an example of what you can see and how too use it: From this starting point I can make a few assertions: - We are not blessed wit Flair, Composure or Off the Ball ability relative to our expectation so I may be looking to limit either creative freedom or individuality. Translated to Team instructions this means may avoid general instructions like; Be more expressive or Work Ball into Box and may be inclined to adopt an mentality that seeks to mitigate these flaws (Defensive, Cautious or Balanced). - Looking deeper, it may be more profitable to build from the back (possibly Play out of Defence): As they are showing the technical and mental attributes really control the game. Contrarily, the strengths could be used to instigate faster progression of the ball forward with defenders capable of passing longer distances consistently well. After assessing the technical ability of the midfielders: With a relatively poorer First Touch and Passing ability this (TI, More Direct Passing). May seem a sound decision. You would of course need to ensure your attacker were capable of receiving direct passes (either into space, in the air or into feet): let's check: Decent pace and exceptional strength lend well to this approach and technically: An elite level first touch suggest the players may be more than capable of handling this More Direct approach. This comparison method works for me and does not only ever lead to one conclusion. Indeed, good first touch, strength and poor passing could encourage a higher tempo, short passing game. The choice is your. Hope this helps.

Lol. Like this: and this: Not my first rodeo my friend. Here's what I am looking at: I've never used a Roaming Playmaker and I am determined to make it work. I've removed Play for Set Pieces as I do not have players with the required delivery ability. I will reinstate it if I can recruit accordingly. PI's: - LWB, More Direct Passes, Sit Narrower. (Want him to be looking to get it to the RPM as fast as possible or look long to the AF. - RCB, Dribble More. - DM, More direct Passes, Take More Risks. - LCM, Dribble More, Pass it Shorter. - RCM, Stay Wider, Hold Position - LS and CAM, Mark Tighter. - RS, Pass it Shorter. NB: My roaming Playmaker has traits: Gets forwards Whenever Possible and Runs Through Centre (deliberately trained) and is a real gem: One question: For security I have placed Hold Position on the RCM. However, I am considering the benefit of letting him loose as there will be the DM to cover. Arrgh. Not sure. Thoughts?

@Cloud9 Hey there. Epic success this season. Thank you for all the assistance. Want to pick your brain again if that is alright? Thinking about switching to 41212 Narrow next season. I've got a plan in mind. Let me know when you're online so i can run it by you if that's ok?

I have few that I use to aid transitions and enable ball retention when applicable. These are in force for every fixture. - RCM and CCB: More Direct Passing. - RS and LCM: Pass it shorter. - LS and CCAM: Mark Tighter. - RCB, LCB and LCM: Dribble more. I do however, make minor tweaks based on what I am predicting and/or seeing in game. The most common PI I add is stay wide on either the LCM and LCB or the RCM and RCB or just one of the two. This is usually the case when playing against a Winger on their stronger foot. Furthermore, as @Cloud9 pointed out, player traits can really help in transitions and change the way the tactic plays. EG: My Pressing forward possesses comes deep for ball whilst my BWM likes to run with ball through centre and get forward whenever possible. Plus, a spread of passing and dribbling traits (tries long range passes, switch ball to other flank, Brings ball out of Defence and tries killer balls) are peppered around suitable squad members. These have been deliberately trained to first XI and the subs bench in order to change the game when needed. As an example, if we are chasing a game I bring on this gut at LWB: What I am trying to convey is that the counter attacking style of play, brought to me by this thread and the astute assistance of @Cloud9, is as much reliant on the skill of the manager as it is the tactics and players. Indeed, the devil is in the detail.

This is good advice and is often the difference in close games.

More counter attacking magic. After sucker punching RBL we have effectively claimed our first Bundesliga title with this epic victory over an all conquering Bayern whom have won the league this many times: In this journeyman save I took the job in the German lower league because I thought it would take years to break the Bayern stranglehold. I do in fact believe that, if I had not been incorporating the counter-attack style and had instead followed my normal path of high press and possession, this would have taken far longer than the four years it appears it will take. Only four years from promotion to toppling Bayern! COUNTER - ATTACK rules. Here's the match stats: And again, time after time Bayern were just running into bodies (too offset Moukoko's presence on the Left Wing I instructed my RCM to Stay Wider in Possession in order to be better suited to stop a counter if ours failed) and shooting in congestion. After they went 1-0 down they started losing their composure (probably as they are not used to it - this is their first defeat of the season!) and their body language was utterly detrimental to their final performance. This is now how the table looks: I cannot see us slipping up now with six games to go and both Bayern and RBL played twice. As a further note, what a revelation the Pressing Forward - Defend has been! The role is a perfect foil for other attacking roles in this kind of set-up (AF and SS) - Kudos to @Cloud9 for suggesting. I don't think either of us would have expected these kind of results. Here is what has been doing the business: Well, I've also drawn Bayern in the CL quarters and the domestic cup semi-final. Let's see where this goes. ECL and DFB - Pokal results: Well, they still can't beat us but they done us on penalties in both cups AET! Even worse, I forgot to train penalties before either fixtures. Doh. I always remember to do this usually. Finally toppled Bayern with a game to spare: Going to post a season write up later with a full look at the capabilities, strengths AND weaknesses of a counter - attacking style of play.

This might be my favourite example so far: Whenever Liebzig had any sort of angle to shoot, there were a minimum of 3 bodies between the player and the goal. Our goal?: RBL trying to play out from the back, PF-D and Shadow Striker marking the easy passes to DM and other CB - AF nips in and chips the keeper from 20 yards. Critical result aswell. RBL now have Pep in charge and they were right behind us. This is the key (for me) to a counter attacking set-up. Have players and a shape that can prevent easy CCC's whilst having roles, duties and suitable players that can exploit any lapses in concentration from the opposition.

Can happen if you plan ahead. Check this guy out whom came into my youth team last intake. Now, because I intend to use a Pressing Forward - Defend for the foreseeable future, I have placed him in the defending training unit , whilst giving him individual training in shooting. If he progresses into a 'world class player' I would expect his finishing and tackling to end up at about 12. In a similar vein, I've unearthed a CB whom is joining from Brazil next year that has 8 for finishing , 10 for off the ball and 15 for technique. When he arrives, I will place him in the attacking unit and train his attacking mentals and technicals individually. NB: With this king of approach it is important to: 1) Make sure you have quality youth coaches with min 15 for working with youngsters and 2) Have control over youth training schedules to ensure that the relevant sessions are actually going to train the relevant attributes.

Not to worry. The AF has started performing as we have become tactically aware. 6 goals in 10 games is perfect. Don't worry about the 16yo SS. I'm the king of squad rotation and I've never had trouble developing youngsters (I've successfully completed two youth only challenges). Check him out: I go by the old adage: If they're good enough, they're old enough. Once those mentals come along he is going to be deadly. I've only ever found it a hinderance to promote a youth player too young when they aren't getting the minutes and languishing on the bench. Far better getting 60 minutes per game at a high level with decent ratings and good quality training in between.

Hey. I immediately swapped the strikers in time for pre season. Well, I've got to say I enjoy watching our 'disgusting' brand of football. We are not at full tactical familiarity and are playing two really underdeveloped players in the first XI but, this is a very promising start: Not bothered about the Man. C result. They are vastly superior and have Mbappe and Haaland up top in a 442.. All three of their goals were worldies. Onto the observations: Very solid at the back, which can only improve with an increase in team cohesion and tactical familiarity (see RBL pic): The chance we do create are of high quality (see Hamburg pic). The PF- Defend and the Shadow striker look like a dream team (and the SS is only bloody 16yo). This could be the start of something beautiful (see third pic) Have added More direct passing to the central CB and the RCM - Support. My AF is struggling for goals but is playing an important role in opening up space. I hope the goals will start to flow. All inn all looking good so far.

Totally agree. Have this running through the team. For the AM I agree I will have to compromise a little. Current encumberments: Running round like Vardy. Check. Tackling like Ian Wright, unfortunately check. Might recruit here. I know Ricci. Totally understand your example. Time to get set. Here's the final draft: Few notes: - Chose higher tempo as my players are blessed with a good first touch, It should really help us against the big boys in Europe. - I have to really good, young BWM's. 18 in both aggression and Bravery, 15 in workrate and 12 in Dribbling and both only twenty years old. I've got big hopes for this role. Couple of PI's: BPD - Dribble more. RCM - Hold Position LCM - Dribble more, pass it shorter. PF: Pass it shorter. Thanks again. Hope the PF -Defend does well. Never used it before!

That is exactly what I was thinking. My RWB is a converted winger so that idea is a shoe in. Plus, the CM is being told to hold position which will offer some cover. Are we talking technical, mental or physical. If physical the are easily above average, mentally good endeavour but technically not the greatest at defending. Thoughts? NB: Epic help so far.

LOL, no. Thought as much. Got a couple of decent and aggressive AMC's that can do the job. Going to give it a definite run out in pre season. Here is what I am settled on My thinking is the SS closes down and gives a double direct threat with the AF picking up hiis left overs. The player I have dto deploy as a PD defend has the traits comes deep to get ball so I'm hoping this double ''arrow; might really screw over the AI. Or is the middle going to be to 'hollow'? The AM;s I have available are oth converted strikers and are well suited to a SS. They would also operate comfortably as AM Support/Attack. I've got to be frank- never been one to deploy AM's usually.

Sounds interesting. I'm assuming this is a flat MF, no WB's? Also, fair point about the CF. Would it be completely derelict to incorporate a Trequartista? Thes are my two thoughts: a) b) Plan B looks suicidal! As you can see I'm uber keen on getting the TQ in.

@Cloud9 Yo. As you're online I though I would pick your mind. As you can see from above we have been massively overperforming. However, we actually secured the EURO Cup and our reputation is going to skyrocket. Furthermore, the two Target Men I have been deploying are by far my worst players. In addition I have two Strikers returning from loan spells that are first team ready, young and more rounded complete forward types. The question is this: What shape/formation would you suggest I could incorporate that utilises a Strike partnership that does not include a TM and still encapsulates the counter-attacking principles that I am adamant i am sticking with. Please note, I am anti asymmetric formations! Aside from that I am open to suggestions. Don't worry too much about what players I do and don't have as I am in pre-season and can recruit accordingly if necessary. hope you can help! NB: I really want to incorporate a BWM Support into thee system but I feel the nature of the role contradicts the style I am trying to achieve. I'd appreciate your thought.

Set-up your tactic and deploy it either in friendlies or a 'test' save. See what positions are carrying out what actions, their success rate, frequency and go from there.

Consistency only affects technical and mental stats so his biggest strengths (his pace , and jumping) are always a threat. Furthermore, the role and tactical set-up are really well suited to the player. DLP plays a long ball out wide: he's tall and brave = header won. Defender clears it long? Same again Can you get him in down the wing in behind? Yes. Cane he run and cross? Yes. He is a perfect Winger-Attack. If you could get a better player in this position your team performance would really improve!!!

This is the best idea if you are doing a playthrough with all attributes hidden. Is this the case? If so then it can be tricky. As an example, players who win possession most are more likely to be playing for teams whom are lower in the league and as such are making challenges more often. As another example, distance covered can be an indication of a player whom is constantly tracking back in a defensive system rather than closing down on the front foot. If you are determined to use the scouting metrics to unearth players then you will need to be intuitive, In the first instance you could use the following Parameters: Tackle attempts per 90 mins, possession won, interceptions per 90 mins under general focus. Thereafter you will need to cross reference with the club the player plays for and the tactical style that club deploys to ensure these aren't solely a consequence of the tactical approach his club employs rather than an indication of ability. This can then be done by position in short-term focuses where, whilst more effort is needed, the results will be closer to what you are looking for. In addition, you can tailor it to suit the roles and duties deployed in your gegenpress system. EG. If you are deploying a creative FB/CB you could search with the Key Passes metric on a short term focus and then cross reference as before. Ultimately, if you have attributes visible then @Cloud9's advice is spot on. Hope this helps.

Due to our shape this was only ever going to the best option. We will always have at least equal numbers on the flanks compared to the AI and with quite conservative roles through the middle of the park; lacking any excessive pressing, opposition play naturally gets funneled out wide where the more adventurous duties are ready to press. As a side note, i have adapted the tactic as my team are now considered mid-table contenders (even though we are now in second place half way through the season). In addition to my default tactic: I have copied the tactic into another slot and added the TI's: Use Tighter Marking, Get stuck in and Be More Expressive. I implement this against any opposition where the scouting indicates a weakness at either Marking or Positioning or Off the Ball or Mobility. This tends to be the case against the majority of teams towards the bottom of the table and really punishes those weaknesses. With regards to the IF-Support getting poor ratings I have taken a closer look and stuck with the original setup based on the following: 1. You were spot on in your assessment that the AF and IF were often trying to attack the same space. However, this coalescent intention is creating acres of space for the RWB who is posting mega numbers - with the second highest rating in the Bundesliga and copious chances created: It is worth noting that I had planned for the RWB to be a back up creative outlet if the initial counter is not on and the AF/IF overload is really helping create space. My backup RWB Rui Sezoes is having similar joy although not to the same extent. This reward has however, come from forward planning - my RWB is actually a RM whom I have been training early to play RWB and as such has exceptional technical attacking attributes. 2. My IF's (Kuzmenko and Recalde) are both young and are playing a demanding role of both a scorer and creator. My entire tactic is all about exploiting space and whilst fairly speedy, both of these players are just one or two physical attributes off of what they need. As such, when they are receiving the ball in space, they have very little time before the opposition has recovered - stymying the direct nature of my intention. In fact, against weaker opposition, where the opponent full backs tend to be slower, they have been putting in some good performances. I think this is more a case of player ability hampering performance and as such will persist whilst they develop. 3. I tried swapping the front two for five fixtures at the start of the campaign and whilst your astute observation on the IF was accurate, he did improve output and rating, this came at the expense of the defensive solidarity I mentioned earlier. Without the TM compressing space on the left hand side of the pitch, My LB and LCM were getting roasted by any semi-competent midfield trio. As you can see, the counter attacking style is still in full effect: And in attack, we may be patient when defending but when we do win the ball we are dangerous: And here is the league table where we are confounding expectations, especially away from home: With regards my tactic I would like to note that PACE is only imperative in key positions : LW Winger - Attack, RW IF - Support and RS AF - Attack. Elsewhere not so much. If you can fill other roles with players with high - end mental attributes you are onto a winner. I would go as far to say that in this style of play, use your head: IF A PLAYER IS GOING TO BE ATTACKING SPACE, THEY NEED PACE. If not check what you've got. Sorry for waffling on everyone but again, this playstyle is entirely new to me and I am really enjoying it thanks to @Cloud9's many words of wisdom. I hope these words also help those aiming to achieve similar goals.