lied90
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Posts posted by lied90
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15 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
Whether you want to call them exploits or cheats it doesn't really matter, the result is the same. You're relying on a tactic that works due to the limitations of the AI or ME (unrealistic overloads/forward runners, asymmetrical tactics, striker less formations etc.).
Most of the top FMarena tactics don't really have crazy asymetric formations, three strikers, insane overloads, everyone on attack duty etc. It's mostly just 4222's and 4231's with maximum pressing, short passing, high tempo and balanced mentality, spiced with TIs that are objectively very effective regardless of playstyle. One example being how low crosses results in more goals, even with a archetype target forward (was an example of this done with Matt Smith in a thread I can't remember)
It's really not much different from preset gegenpress, which I think is the point of the threadstarter(?), that he feels like he is cheating even if he is using a tactic that feels fairly normal.
Of course as others have said, if playing like this makes the game less fun, than find a different way to create a tactic.
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2 hours ago, flauta kicma said:
That's why I asked if it's a cheat tactic that I use, because I would have come to those logical foundations myself. That way, it doesn't seem like a cheat to me, but then again, I don't want results that are unrealistic. And now it's hard to ignore these principles that I picked up at FM Arena...
There is no such thing as a cheat tactic in FM24.
Using a tactic that performs well isn't a cheat simply because it wins you a lot of matches, even if it's not "logical". It would have to exploit a bug or glitch, and as far as I know there are no major bugs in the ME that makes you win games.
If you could make the opposing teams GK move out of goal by using 3 liberos combined with 3 false nines and give them a PI to man mark the GK, than that would be a cheat tactic, FM has nothing like that to my knowledge, it just has balance issues.
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15 hours ago, crusadertsar said:
Sure some are logical but then you see the ones that make no sense together like "shorter passing" and "pass into space". Might as well just turn them off and select "be more expressive" or just select a higher team mentality and you will get the same effect. Just unnecessary. But plug and play tactics select every single option just because.
This is not true.
Almost every single combination of TIs have been tested on FMarena over thousands of simulations. It's simple brute force testing, but the TIs are not chosen "just because". It's chosen because over thousands of tests, it gives the best results. Which is totally fine if you want to know what works, rather than how it works.
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59 minutes ago, flauta kicma said:
Hello.
I'm doing very well. I won the Champions League with Vigo in the fourth season, the Dutch title with Twente in the second season... This is the team with which I won the Champions League.
I used the basic postulates from FM Arena. I didn't downloaded the whole tactics, I just saw the basics. And that is - to play with FB on attack, AM on attack, .. But unlike FM Arena - my left wing is an ordinary W, not IF, there are some other team instructions, I don't play with both DM's etc.
It seems to me that all this postulates didn't work so well on the previous patch, as if all this works only on this patch...
Now... can this tactic be considered unrealistically good? Are there any directions, principles (I don't mean literally tactics) with which the results would be more realistic, or is it simply all on this path that I used here?
Do some of you have same impression that it is bit easier after last patch?
I don't understand why you ask here.
Your tactic is in essence the same as any FM Arena tactic because of the team instructions. So if you want to know how this worked for previous patches, just look at how similar tactics scored on FM arena. Each patch have their own table.
Is it unrealistically good? Of course it is, the whole purpose of FM arena tactic testing is to find the optimal plug n play tactic, so if you copy their tactics then the results will be beyond good.
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I'm expecting the players with no training sessions to do rather well in terms of development. Just from personal experience, bursts in attribute growth are often concurrent with the player have lots of playing time, and playing well.
It looks kinda stupid when players get better with zero training, but it's just how SI set it up I guess. Just goes to show that very few things we do in FM actually matter.
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1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:
I actually think the lack of physical stats at lower levels is IMO a bigger issue than the headline one this entire thread is about.
Physical stats at lower levels are absolutely massive IRL, speed merchants with poor technicals and or huge physical specimens with similarly awful technical ability abound and yet in FM they are incredibly rare.
My local club had a player, Dag Alexander Olsen, who went from tier 3 in Norway to Spurs and then Valencia when he was 17. In an interview he said that he was the fastest player at both clubs, no contest. Just straight from tier 3 in Norway and faster than everyone. He never made it as a pro and said he really struggled when it came to the technical side of things.
So yeah, lots of strong and fast players at lower levels who can beat PL players in a sprint.
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34 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:
You are here literally describing something that is all in your head. You are playing a game, all alone at your own PC.
Ofc it's all in my head. It's my subjective experience of what makes the game fun or not, how can it not be in my head. I rarely play solo FM but that's besides the point.
35 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:It’s entirely your choice what tactics to use, who to manage and who to buy.
Ok, but I want to play gegenpress because that's what I like irl, but I don't want it to be broken.
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1 hour ago, NineCloudNine said:
This is all in your head. You’re playing alone, against an AI. You can do nor not do exactly what you want. You don’t “need” to build a pacy team unless you want to.
Saying that you can not use things that are OP, like gegenpress and pacy players, is not a valid argument for a lot of us. When you know that you can easily win everything by using methods that would never work in real football, it breaks the immersion that you are playing a realistic football sim. That's enough to ruin the experience of the game. You and others can argue that it shouldn't, but it's futile because it already has.
It's not really a problem for SI when only people who read forums like these know about it. Almost nobody reads this forum after all, relative to how many play FM. I imagine it might become more of a problem when youtubers like Zealand make videos about it.
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5 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
Imo you can fairly easily overachieve in the game with any style of play...and Zealand has built around speed in a situation that plays into it.
He didn't play into it, he got the type of players that the original reddit post used, and left everything else to the assistant.
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On 27/05/2024 at 15:15, Grunners said:
Firstly, to what degree will a "tired" player (partial green heart) drop off from their peak performance? As a general rule of thumb is it best to play your 1st choice tired, over your backup fully fit?
This can give you a general idea as to how important fitness is:
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2 hours ago, scythian12 said:
Sorry, let's try again, it seems the screenshots were not uploaded correctly :-/
So I have two goalkeepers, Kamory Diabaté and fresh youth signing Mailson Veilho
Diabaté is clearly the objectively much better GK
Yet he is objectively also much worse on the field (in the ME at least) - and I got fed up with him in a game so much that I decided to give Velho a go and he has been much more solid despite his tender age.
Now the question begs to be answered: WTF? The only thing I see Diabaté being worse in is 10 cm shorter and correspondingly smaller jumping and aerial reach. But his problems are not necessarily with not fishing the ball out of the air, but just keeping easy balls out in my experience. I would like a second opinion on this anomaly as I am rather at a loss to explain anything here, and GK is kind of a key position in this year's FM as they seem to decide solely whether you will scrape in points in those close matches.
It might just be random. If you put some U21 GK in goal for Liverpool in 10 matches he might not concede more than Alisson did the previous 10, same thing in FM.
Same thing when people here post two strikers with one being clearly better but scoring less. Over time the best player will perform better, but they might not over a brief period of time.
FM is just a dice game afterall.
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On 17/05/2024 at 09:27, El Payaso said:
These kind of things always make you think that the game doesn't treat the AI the same way it does the human players. I have also seen AI using tactics (or just selection of roles) that have "nothing wrong in them" but still underperforming. And then on the other hand human players are able to use tactics that make no sense at all (like me with Palermo) and still do well.
I know that SI have said that the game treats both human players and the AI equally but I don't see this being the case based on my own experience.
TI's>roles
Poor AI has no idea what works.
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20 minutes ago, aditya said:
OP's picture has 4 players,
Look again, it's 3.
20 minutes ago, aditya said:Do you expect 2 fowards vs 4 defenders will be enough to provide results? no.
Depends on positioning and situation, if caught in transition, even 1 might be enough.
22 minutes ago, aditya said:You can achieve that by having 4 players on attack.
You said 4-5 (AT LEAST!). Meaning that if playing 433, you would need ST, LW, CM, DM and LB to get into the box in order to have 5. Also, have you tried and tested that having 4-5 consistently in the box increases half space crossing, or is it an educated guess?
This is a very typical half space cross situation. Silva uses Kdb on the underlap, KDB crosses to ST, LW or CM.
Yeah sure 4-5 would be nice but it's not necessary to have 4-5 in the box for a half space cross unless it's from a set pieces or against a very low block team.
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1 hour ago, aditya said:
but you also have to make sure you have 4-5 players at least in the box.
Did you get that number out of thin air?
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13 hours ago, Ghost77 said:
Trying to upload my save, but when attach it, nothing happens
It just stays empty and nothing is attached. I will try different explorer.
A save file would be too large to attach it directly here. It would need to be uploaded on a different platform I think.
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5 hours ago, Ghost77 said:
I unfortunately don't have time to go through the whole half-season, but I scored probably 4-5 goals like this including pre-season in this save.
If you share the save file I'll have a look.
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I think the only ones underachieving or struggling are new players, or players who are extremely casual (buys FM once every 5 years or something).
With any game like this there will be a feeling of being overwhelmed by all the information, and you just don't know where to start or what is important. This is the case with lots of strategy games.
For veterans it's way too easy, so you have to play online or restrict yourself to playing with the monitor upside down while drunk and only sign players from Mongolia.
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22 hours ago, nhami said:
Playing passes from your defence directly to your attack can be achieved by manipulating how the team passes the ball with different instructions.
Cross Ball Deep is to cross from the Midfield(2nd/3rd of the Pitch) and Cross Ball Byline is to cross from the Attack(3rd/3rd of the Pitch). It is a specific type of pass.
Through Ball only serves to passes that make the attackers bet a race with the defenders. It is a specific type of pass.
Direct Passing only increases the passing range that the player is "allowed" to try but other factors influence passing.
The last 3 passes are side passes to maintain possession, vertical passes to create goal chances, and "hoof the ball" or clearance to keep the goal safe. To increase vertical passes you need Quick Tempo and to increase side passes you need Slow Tempo. To increase clearances you need Less Creative Freedom and to decrease you need More Creative Freedom.
Defensive mentalities increase clearances and reduce vertical passes. Attacking mentalities increases vertical passes and reduces clearances.
By manipulating these instructions you can influence the types of passes that are more likely to happen between all these types of passes.
It is contradictory but to play passes from your defense directly to your attack you need to play with Quick Tempo and More Creative Freedom or Positive+ Mentality instructions. Quick Tempo increases Vertical Passes while More Creative Freedom decreases Clearances. Attacking Mentalities does both at the same time.If you use Quick Tempo and Less Creative Freedom the player will play vertical passes but also clear the ball forward more often. Most of the time when you see the defender playing the ball long he is not actually passing to a specific player. He is just removing the ball from danger. Sometimes you can win the second ball in the midfield and begin an attack from the midfield but this just gives the ball back to the other team most of the time.
In FM2012 you could do this to a Full-Back: Low Mentality and High Creative Freedom. This would make the Full-Back stay deep but when he has the ball, he would only play forward passes. To achieve this now you need to Counter- Mentality and More Creative Freedom but this would increase the entire team's Creative Freedom so it is a bit clunky.
The last part is the direction of the pass. You can control with either Play Through Middle or Play Through Flanks. Play Through Middle to pass to the Central Strikers. Play Through Flanks to pass to Wingers. With Play Through Flanks you will see the Full-Back inverting the ball with diagonal passes to the free winger on the other flank half the time but playing a vertical pass to the same side winger the other half of the time. With only 1 flank selected the other side Full-Back will play diagonal ball and the same side will play vertical ball to the winger so again, it is a bit clunky.
Feel free to use your preferred method and post the results.
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9 hours ago, julle17 said:
Also not saying you're lying, but how are you supposed to get cross more often on this role?
None of the crosses I get directly from the half space counts as crosses in post match analytics, so maybe it doesn't matter, but who knows.
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4 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
The point being your current setup isn't working the way you'd like by your own admission, so make changes.
My point being that your suggestions don't even adress the problem, it's like you didn't even read what I wrote.
4 hours ago, Cloud9 said:Removing redundancies and focusing on building up in a way that makes space for the MEZ and the runners could result in a more productive system.
The mez already has lots of space and gets the ball when in the half space on a consistent basis. This is not the problem.
4 hours ago, Cloud9 said:Again, if you've already decided the game isn't working as intended, go post the evidence to SI
I will when I feel like I've tried every reasonable option.
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4 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
Might take a look at your attacking roles, Poacher could help you compared to the AF who will look to run in behind and turn over possession. IW(s) on Bernardo Silva will also cut inside eventually even if you put stay wider on him, could try a traditional winger role. Similarly on the right hand side a patient wide player could help, you have two roles moving into goal scoring opportunities in the same finishing space + the poacher. Try dumping the wingback in favor of stable/patient 3-2 foundation. I'd continue to play around with the width settings as you test.
I highly doubt changing to a poacher instead of AF or TF will suddenly make KdB start to cross from the half space. I can tell a IW to cross less, I can't tell a winger to cross less, so I don't think that will make him use KdB more for the underlap, which was never a problem to begin with. No idea what you mean about two roles moving into same goal scoring opportunities + the poacher, thats exactly what I do want! I want players into that space because it gives KdB options in the box. Having less players in that area would be detrimental.
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3 hours ago, Rashidi said:
I think if i can get 1-2 per game in exactly the halfspace I am going to be happy, most times i get them closely to the wider channels and this is done with the underlap instruction with focus play. Halfspace crosses inside the penalty area are common in FM
I assumed the threadstarter meant crosses/diagonal passes spesifically from this area (at least that is what I checked for):
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51 minutes ago, julle17 said:
I'm still completely open to the fact that i just may not understand how to get my players to do them, but i would love to see actual examples of it happening frequently and on purpose.
I don't think we are doing much wrong. I also tracked how often my IW (Silva) passed backwards (underlap) to KdB, and it's very frequent with both low, standard, and high tempo. So KdB gets the ball in the right positions, he just makes a different choice than crossing it.
It's a bit deja vu from when I couldn't seem to get Tony Pulis type deep crosses to happen. Everything is set up for it to happen, but the players don't make the choice we want them to make.
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8 minutes ago, Dr Naysay said:
So it should be around 12 to 15 every 10 games as per the average PL crosses per game. Something you would hope gets improved in later versions.
I'd say higher than that. Crosses from half space on average are watered out by teams like Burnley (it's from 2017-18) who do lots of deep crosses. Teams who have more possession in the opponents half should have a higher % of crosses from half spaces, especially if that is a specific part of the game plan.
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It just stays empty and nothing is attached. I will try different explorer.
FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
All for removing fluff that isn't used.
From the SS it looks very sterile, so I fear people who use the default skin will feel more like a data analyst than a football manager. Some club related color and theme is important for immersion.
I will use a custom skin anyway so prob won't matter.