lied90
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Posts posted by lied90
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Depends on what you mean by 442.
A flat 442 with no DMs is awful because of how it easy it is to attack against formations with nobody between the lines when defending. Even if you set CMs on (D) duty they still don't control that space between midfield and defenders. If you go full out high press etc it can hide the flaws, but that's the case for any formation.
442 DMx2 is a different story, it has been an easy formation to build around for some time.
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On 05/12/2023 at 20:30, clayts said:
Any updates from the OP?
Gonna guess he gave up, have to be a masochist to enjoy route one in FM.
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1 hour ago, Ronaldo Beckham said:
OK cheers mate.
How would you set up the set pieces to replicate Dyche?
Also would you bring in long throw specialist?
I think Dyche had them aim at the back post more often than not.
I wouldn't bring in a long thrower just for the sole purpose of launching long throws. Burnley used it at times but it was never a huge part of their style. Nothing like it was for Pulis with Delap.
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21 hours ago, Ronaldo Beckham said:
I look forward to seeing your rebuild. I always appreciated Dyche's style of play. Similar to Tony Pulis's. Sometimes the more direct approach is the best.
Can you if possible post your tactic on here as I would like to do a save with Everton emulating Dyche's tactical approach but I wont be posting it as it is just a save I want to do on my own.
No worries if you don't want to post the tactic.
Good luck with Burnley.
Posted it now.
With Everton I would probably use an asymmetric AM+ST instead of ST+ST. If you buy some more strikers for backup then DCL+Beto can be very lethal. Two tall, strong strikers with pace is a lot to handle for defenders.
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Rekindling the Clarets: A Journey to Restore Burnley's Grit and Glory
Disclaimer: This will be a short term save, as you can only expect so much out of a team that will play direct football in a 442. This is my favorite type of save to do it, as I normally only play FM online where everything is about playing the meta. This is very different. I've done something similar twice before, but that was more about emulating Tony Pulis.
Jean Duche will be looking for the right kind of players to gain promotion back to the premier league. The initial budget was a measly £2million, so players had to be sold fast. With the help of some intermediaries, players had to leave for their next club before the managed to get back from holiday.
Tresor was on loan the previous season with obligation to buy, so Duche had no say in the matter. Tresor is a good player but as a natural attacking midfielder with no ability to play on the wing or deep midfield, he just isn't very useful to Burnley.
Players like Ryan Fraser, Patrick Bamford and Kortney Hause came in to get some much needed experience in the team. Patrick Bamford unfortunately didn't come off to the best of starts as he was sidelined as quick as he entered the pitch.
While it's not exactly Dyche-esque to buy players from Spain, the two young Spaniards Serrano and Azon are very similar to two former Burnley profiles, McNeil and Chris Wood. Ivan Azon in particular have very similar strengths to Chris Wood, apart from being a fair bit shorter (but comparable jumping reach).
Veteran Jack Cork is still at the club and is for sure at the end of his career at 35yo, so Danish/Norwegian midfielder Clem comes in as his heir to the midfield spot. Great work rate and stamina to run up and down the pitch for 90 min week in week out. Clem will get some mentoring from Cork this season.
The new recruits and a reborn Burnley are off to a flying start in the championship, undefeated after 10 games in a very competitive environment.
First in the league and bottom on passes completed in the league, brilliant.
In Duche's playbook, we're rocking a 4-4-2 formation. Muric is our go-to goalie, slinging those long passes like nobody's business. On the left, we've got Taylor charging up, creating chaos. On the right, it's either Johnson or Roberts doing a solid defensive hustle.
In the center, Ekdal's the fancy ballplayer, doing his thing with a bit of freedom, while McNally's all about no-nonsense, keeping it tight. Serrano or Twine on the left wing are our creative sparks, allowed to roam and cause trouble.
Fraser's our man on the right, sticking wide and delivering killer crosses or cheeky through balls. In the middle, Cullen holds the fort, spraying those long passes, and Clem or Brownhill covers ground like there's no tomorrow. They are told to dribble more in order to progress with the ball.
Up top, Azon's our main goal-getter, or Lyle Foster with his muscle and pace. Weghorst, even with an eye on the exit, still rocks the preferred number 10 spot, giving his all. Old Jay Rodriguez will also be getting some minutes, especially with Bamford out for a long time.
Our game plan? Wings are the go-to, lofting crosses, and defenders slamming those direct balls from the back. Defensively, we stay tight, and when we lose the ball, we hit that counter-press just enough to slow down the other team's hype. And yeah, we're cool with losing the ball – it's part of our wild symphony.
The tactic will probably change frequently, but this i the one I've used the first ten rounds.
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Rekindling the Clarets: A Journey to Restore Burnley's Grit and Glory
Disclaimer: This will be a short term save, as you can only expect so much out of a team that will play direct football in a 442. This is my favorite type of save to do it, as I normally only play FM online where everything is about playing the meta. This is very different. I've done something similar twice before, but that was more about emulating Tony Pulis.
Step into the aftermath of a seismic shift at Turf Moor. As the 2024 season dawns, the landscape has drastically changed. Vincent Kompany's tenure, marked by an unfortunate descent into relegation from the Premier League, has come to an end. In the wake of this transformation, enter Jean Duche, the newly appointed manager and a distant relative of the revered Sean Dyche. Tasked with steering Burnley through the rough waters of the Championship, Duche is set to initiate a major rebuild. Transcending borders and drawing inspiration from the Dyche legacy, the challenge ahead is clear – restore Burnley's former "glory".
Drawing inspiration from the tactical prowess of Sean Dyche, Jean Duche is set to implement a robust and disciplined playing style reminiscent of Burnley's golden era. Mirroring Dyche's renowned approach, Duche's Burnley will prioritize a solid defensive foundation, with a compact and organized backline that aims to frustrate opponents. Offensively, Duche's Burnley will look to capitalize on direct and purposeful attacks, utilizing target men up front and exploiting wide areas to deliver crosses into the box. The emphasis on team cohesion and a collective work ethic will remain pivotal, ensuring that every player contributes to the overall defensive and offensive efforts.
A lesson Sean Dyche tactics at Turf Moor.
There are loads of resources out there to learn about how Burnley played, but it's best to hear it from the man himself. He explains well that there are nuances to how they played, and that they played differently depending on the quality they played against. A good example of this is that they often find themself in a mid to low block, but they also like to press high directly after loosing the ball. Against certain teams that try to play out from the back, but aren't that good at it, they also press very high at times.
That being said, the default is a mid/low block with players not straying too far from their position, and attacks coming in the shape of direct balls from the back or wing play.
This is the team I want to use as a starting point.
Pope : Launch it long and fast to start an attack
Lowton: Support the winger but be wary of straying too far.
Tarkowski: Freedom to keep the ball a bit and pick out a long pass.
Mee: Just hoof it.
Taylor: Get higher and wider than Lowton, overlap on the flank.
McNeil: Drift inside or get wide, his choice.
Westwood: The deeper midfielder in possession, license to make risky passes.
Cork: The dynamo of the midfield, box2box/volante.
Guðmundsson: Wide midfielder/winger, get wide and cross it.
Barnes: The number 10.
Wood: Primary goalscorer.When it comes to attributes, the CBs need to be intelligent and good in the air. The fullbacks need a good cross and work rate. The wide players need a good work rate and be decent passers, bonus if they are good 1v1. The midfield duo have to do a lot of work in defense and attack, so high work rate and should either be a deep-lying playmaker/holding midfielder or a box to box type player. The strikers have to be good in the air, but can also be fast and strong like Andre Gray.
Key attributes:
- Work rate
- Determination
- Concentration
- Anticipation
- Jumping reachThe rebuild:
As the transfer window unfolds, flashy players are making way for those who align more seamlessly with Burnley's distinctive style. Duche is currently scouting the marked for fitting players.
More to follow in the next update.
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6 minutes ago, Freakiie said:
So, the very things SI is working on every version already? Good, looks like SI doesn't have to do anything different then!
Lol no.
I'm sure they could make the game much more difficult if they wanted. I think most people prefer FM to be fairly easy, so why make it difficult.
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1 minute ago, Freakiie said:
Well as per usual when this topic comes up; how do you implement difficulty in FM? How do you actually make it harder?
Make AI managers use better tactics, improve AI transfers, improve AI morale managment, improve AI fitness managment.
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18 hours ago, steve.battisti said:
I don't know a huge amount about tactics and the different roles, so I guess my question is, what changes should I make to either tactics or roles to take advantage of their outlier characteristics? For example, should I play Neemo as a Target Forward, and have his strike partner be in a support role? What would I do to encourage midfielders to play Harry on through balls where he can just outrun everyone?
You don't really have to make any major changes to make your pacy strikers work. Physical attributes are so important in a large amount of situations in FM, so if you already have a good tactic it should just become even better with good physical players.
Certain team instructions like Pass Into Space would be mandatory imo, even if some claim it's situational. Maybe add take more risks to your midfielders/winger. Don't make them do direct passing, they will still pace into space even with shorter passing.
When it comes to strikers with high jumping reach, I wouldn't change much just to make use of their strong points. Even if you tell your team to use low crosses, they will still put in a high cross when that's clearly the best/only option. The Gk will also use him as a long ball option at times, even if you use shorter passing.
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On 20/11/2023 at 19:26, Louisking1992 said:
Been using a 3ATB system for 2 seasons and ive noticed loads of goals being scored/conceded in games. When we go 3-0 up you better believe we're conceding atleast 2 goals in the game
From what you posted you seem more likely to concede 0-1 goals when having scored 3+, than conceding 2+.
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14 hours ago, ceefax the cat said:
The tactics creator genuinely seems designed to make the game seem like an impenetrable black box at times. Select 'Extremely direct' passing and watch as your passing options for fullbacks, midfielders and strikers disappear to be replaced by the single choice: "shorter passing". The one thing you have specifically asked your team not to do, with no option to change it.
What the TC means, of course, is 'shorter passing in the context of extremely direct passing' which makes almost no sense. If 8 outfield players are described as passing it 'shorter' then that's not 'extremely direct passing' is it? You'll also find your NCB's hardwired to 'more direct' passing. More direct than 'extremely direct' is that?"Alright lads, we're going to play a VERY ATTACKING style of football, only much slower and with much less closing down, lots of timewasting and a very deep defensive line, and shorter passing for almost all of you, not forgetting of course that we will as a team be playing extremely directly." This is how the TC asks you to formulate your instructions.
I don't think anybody would ever describe a team's tactics in that way and if you heard those instructions as a player you'd simply get changed and make your way to the car park, so why is the Tactics Creator doing it? As often as not, it's preventing users from being able to think clearly about their tactics, rather than making it simpler.100% agree. Those of us who have played for a long time are able to make sense of it, but it's horribly confusing for new or casual players.
It would be much better if things like width, passing etc was always adjustable in one set spectrum.
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For season two I decided to test a flat 442 with the same roles (just switched volante for b2b). Upped the def line to compact the space more, making up for the lack of DMs. I ended up being relegated and sacked. The difference in results is rather staggering considering how similar the tactics are.
Results:
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6 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:
Hi, thanks for this.
Please could you post the table in a detalied view so we can see conceded and also a list of the fixture results?
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I'm rekindling this thread, we pulisball lovers need a thread to call home.
I've used the editor to quickly test the state of pulisball in FM24, I welcome others to do the same!
- Took charge of Bournemouth
- Used the editor to transfer in players that suited the style I wanted
- Used the editor to maximize tactical familiarity, and to remove injures from key players.
- Holiday mode for 1-2 months, quickly reviewed some matches, holiday again etc.Tactic:
- Structured tactic with clear roles, attackers attack, defenders defend.
- Wingers and forwards have adjusted passing one notch down (making it slightly more direct or standard?)
- Fullbacks told to cross from deep, CBs clear it long, GK aim for the TF.
- Volante role to get a player closer to our TF, for winning second balls.
- Narrow width to win more second balls.
- High line mid block on defensive mentality to be narrow and compact in defense.
- Low pressing to maintain shape.
- Long throws and first post corners.
- CBs press more to attempt to close down long shots.Stats and screenshots:
Average possession: 37%
Pass completion: 79% (second lowest)
Headers won ratio: 53% (second highest)
Goals from corners: 10 (4th highest)
Crosses completed: 174 (second)
Clearances: 696 (7th highest)
Interceptions: 844 (4th highest)
Blocks: 201 (7th highest)Observations:
- GK routinely launch the ball to our TF as instructed when taking a goal kick, however, when he kicks it as a part of open play he often kicks it to our small wingers for some reason.
- Long throws work and results in goals/dangerous situations. I don't know of any stat to confirm this.
- NFB almost never cross the ball. Diakite played 40 games, completed 6 crosses (12%). Which means that he attempted 50 crosses, and that means he attempted 1.25 crosses per game!!! This seems insanely low with deep crosses and Much more direct passing.
- Our FB (d) in comparison attempted 3.10 crosses per game.
- Lofted crosses seems to work as expected when observing, our TF is getting lots of high crosses towards him from our wingers.
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I haven't tried playing much route one in FM24, but I miss one thing that I've never seen in FM to the degree I want.
When using GK to distribute it to a target forward with long kicks, I expect this to happen:
The whole team goes really narrow and surround the TF (Kenwyne Jones) as they get ready for Begovic to hoof it. In FM the GK barely even gets the ball anywhere near the TF most of the time, and players aren't ready to jump on the second ball.
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8 hours ago, clayts said:
Yes it is I find my full backs just pass back or get caught out in possession rather then lumping it forward to the TM very frustrating
Have you tried including take more risk, deep crossing, cross more etc on them?
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9 minutes ago, andu1 said:
Is it though? I think it happened in previous FM's? Haven't tried 4-4-2 in FM24
When out of possession in a 442 DM the DMs are lower than than the wingers, leaving a gap in front of the DMs. In a flat 442 the CMs and wingers are aligned when defending. The latter is solid irl but leaks goals in FM, even with compressed lines. I think they should fix this instead of just hiding the problem by making the AI use 442 DM.
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10 hours ago, andu1 said:
Yeah but irl those 2 central midfielders are in general holding midfielders
Holding when i possession yes, but when defending the mid and wingers are flat, which is not the case when using 442 DM in FM as the DMs wil be lower than the wingers.
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2 hours ago, andu1 said:
Thats why they should replace it with 2DM..
For AI teams i mean
Defending in a flat 442 is a very solid way to defend in real football, so it shouldn't be needed to drop CMs to DM.
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It's goals galore in beta, getting 5-5- type results even with low blocks.
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Flat 442s in the beta suffer from CMs not occupying the space between midfield and defense, even with defensive roles/duties. 442 with two DMs do not have the same problem, even if it's a volante duo on attack.
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Steam, discord pages, FM forums etc. Zealands discord has a channel for finding online saves.
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10 hours ago, Wavelberry said:
Feel like I wanna try a tactic utilising 3 DMs so wondered if anyone had any thoughts on roles and what should be in front? Should it be strikerless? Or Should it be 3 at the back? I have some thoughts which I'll share but interested in other perspectives just now.
3 DMs work just fine with both 3 and 4 defenders. The norm is to have the central DM as a holding DM and the two others as volante on attack or support.
It's good defensively simply from having so many bodies in the center.
I wouldn't go strikerless with it, seems a bit toothless.
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On 03/09/2023 at 22:44, Al Bundy said:
Hi Team
Just starting my first save in FM 23. What are some tips or better...what are some thing you've noticed that work generally in 23? I like to create tactics from the scratch but at the same time do not want to waste too much time getting frustrated.
Thank you!
High press, high tempo and shorter passing. High press even works with really well with very low defensive line for some reason.
If you don't have time to use x amount of hours making and testing tactics, just go for a gegenpress variant.
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[FM24] Rekindling the Clarets: A Journey to Restore Burnley's Grit and Glory
in FM Career Updates
Posted
Rekindling the Clarets: A Journey to Restore Burnley's Grit and Glory
Disclaimer: This will be a short term save, as you can only expect so much out of a team that will play direct football in a 442. This is my favorite type of save to do it, as I normally only play FM online where everything is about playing the meta. This is very different. I've done something similar twice before, but that was more about emulating Tony Pulis.
After a promising start to the season our performance dropped into November and December. Our game plan was not working and some tactical tinkering was needed.
At first glance it doesn't look by much of a drop in results, but when looking at the highlights and xg it's very worrying.
Main changes made is more compact defense and more intense pressing. Overall game plan is still the same, with some variation in roles depending on what players are available.
Out:
Weghorst £9mill -> Rangers
Sander Berge £11mill -> Norwich
Both players wanted to go.
In:
Ross Stewart (LOAN) from Southampton.
Jaden Philogene £15mill from Hull.
Jaden looks like a young version of former Burnley man Aaron Lennon. Agile, pacy and with a good cross on him
Ross Stewart is our TF back up.
Results:
2023/24 Table:
Norwich and Leeds really had us on our tails the entire season and we got lucky that Leeds form dropped towards the end of the season.
A great feat to note is goals scored against which ended at 34, proving that our team has an impenetrable defense! A lot of credit goes to our super tall GK, Muric, with 19 clean sheets. We might lose him in the summer with Saudi clubs starting to sniff at him.
Player of the season:
Lyle Foster scored 24 goals in 26 matches + 11 subs. If Lyle managed to stay injury free he would probably score lots more. Duche will need Lyle to keep it going on the premier league next season.
Honorable mention to Ryan Fraser who managed 9 assists and 4 goals in 19 starts, also struggling with injuries.