julle17
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Posts posted by julle17
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2 hours ago, HUMBL3B33 said:
Sure, That's fine. I appreciate the honest response.
I hope i don't come across wrong. I guess i'm just frustrated i can't get the game to do what i want.
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57 minutes ago, HUMBL3B33 said:
Sure, i dont have old safe files but i can try and recreate once i get back home, travelling right now. It doesnt usually increase the cross frequency in-fact, it would reduce them. It's just the general chances created by it would be slightly better in terms of quality of shots as the mez is in a bit more open space than usual (still depends on the player crossing).
I appreciate the response, so i'm not trying to sound like a knobhead here(i might
), but the whole point of this thread is to increase the frequency.
10 minutes ago, HUMBL3B33 said:Here's how it works.
Generally the aim is to make the Mez free and make the players out on the wing try to get the ball to him. Having the width narrow allows the wide players to not be extra aggressive in putting the final ball and more often choose to pass the ball short. Eventually, you'll see him in space to put in a first time cross and since he's in space, he's more likely to put in a ball either on the other player's feet or in a space where he feels the ball has a better chance to be put into the goal.
The one running with the ball is my WB on defend.
My IW in this goal is actually making an inside run to make some space for the WB.This is in my current journeyman save. Almost at the end of my journey on this one.
Here's my Mez. A better crossing att would make him cross even deadlier balls.
And being a bit knit picky aswell, in my opinion that cross is not from the halfspace, but from the wide right. Not to say i don't appreciate the responses because i do, i just still don't think it's what i'm looking to happen more in the game.
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7 minutes ago, HUMBL3B33 said:
Hey @julle17,
I think @lied90 is spot on in terms of the individual instructions. So adding on to that, one thing i had particularly benefited in FM23 when i tried to do this was playing on a narrower widths. This discourages the outer most players from taking more risk or play the final balls less often and if there's anyone like a Mezzalla waiting for the ball to come to him, they'd find that player more often than not since he's situated a bit centrally. I'm not sure if this is intended by the attacking width directly or has a more cause and effect relationship but this one thing increased my output drastically when i tried that.Could you show actual examples of it happening? and in turn whether the crosses happen frequently?
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3 hours ago, aditya said:
OP's picture has 4 players, reasonable to have 4-5 players receiving a half cross. Do you expect 2 fowards vs 4 defenders will be enough to provide results? no.
You can achieve that by having 4 players on attack.Whether there's 4-5 players in the box, should in my opinion not change whether or not i can in a way instruct my team or some players to specifically cross from the halfspace, which is the whole point of the thread, that it just does not seem all that possible. I couldn't find a way to do that, and from what people have said in here, it doesn't seem like anyone else has found out how to do that.
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I'm not too familiar with the Ligue 1 squads, so take this with a grain of salt. However as far as i know, Lens and Nice are two of the better teams in the league and Leipzig are a good team too. Doesn't seem too unlikely to lose especially when your squad isn't much better than the league standard, just my two cents.
Saying anything about your tactic is quite hard imo, doesn't look like anything major is wrong with it imo. However without seeing what formation your opponents played and how you conceded your goals, and maybe even more interesting would be to see some of the game against Lens to identify why you only generated 1 chance.0 -
12 hours ago, spen86 said:
Very nice results! Have you kept the player instructions the same or has anything changed? Gunna try it in the championship with my Bury team.
I think the only PI added was take more risks to the right back, wanted him to try the same kind of balls forwards that the BPDs were trying
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So i've been playing around with my version of an Arteta inspired tactic and it looks like this:
The changes aren't all that major, but there were a couple.
The 2 IF-s were changed to a W-s on the left and W-a on the right. This was because our attacks were just too narrow, and i didn't like how the focus play right instruction had us playing. I still wanted Saka to be our most dangerous man hence he's on attack duty on the right, and he performed all right. He got 10 goals and 22 assists in the prem in 33 games. Thought his goal tally would've been higher, but those assist numbers more than made up for it.
Another change was the DM-d into a DM-s. This was because i felt with the volante still being a dm, while going high, and added central cover from the IWB, i felt that i could allow the other dm to be a bit less restricted, especially considering we would still have 3 really strong defenders behind.
The final role change was the keeper, he got defend duty. Why? he just made less stupid passes.
The instructions changed a bit though, i wanted the focus play right shout gone, so out with that. Also i read this threadWhere some somewhat minimalistic instruction were chosen, and i really liked that idea, so i nabbed it like any good manager does, just steal from people smarter.
I did add prevent short goalkeeper distribution, purely because i think the team defends better with it
I also added get stuck in, for THE FOGGIN DUELS GUYS
Anyhow, here are the results from the first season, with no transfers done.
Nearly managed to win the lot, however lost on pens to Brentford on pens while resting basically the whole starting XI ruined that.
One thing that did annoy me through this season was Havertz got a long term injury early on, so i didn't really get to use him upfront, which i really wanted, but i guess i can just play on.
He did have one major impact though.
When we got the pen in extra time i felt it was needed for another Kai Havertz winner against city in a UCL final.
Also we nearly got to 100 goals in the league with Gabriel Jesus on 18 goals being our most scoring player, resembling quite well how loads of players chip in to Arsenals goal irl.
The defense wasn't half bad either, only conceding 28 goals, which imo is more than acceptable.
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I would like to see it too if you are willing to share the save file
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Personally i think it should look something like this.
4-2-3-1 chosen purely because it defends mostly in a 4-4-2 from my experience.
The volante on attack makes him take up that high left halfspace position, which then pushes the am(ødegaard) over towards saka which is what we see irl.
I've given the Lcb stay wider, to try and mimick the 3-2 positioning.
Both IFs have been told to stay wider
Also the frontline all have roam, which is not necessarily accurate in all games, i just think thats when Arsenal look the most dangerous whenever the frontline roam and rotate with each other.
I've given the rb run wide with ball and cross from byline, in the hope it might make him a bit more likely to overlap, alongside the overlap right instruction.
In terms of the instructions i think many of them is self explanatory. Will say though, 'get stuck in' is chosen purely for Artetas love for duels, so thought it was fitting.
Scored a goal against Forest that shows the 3-2-5 structure that we are looking for perfectly.3 -
6 hours ago, Ghost77 said:
My rightfooted wideplaymaker on support in RM position with cross more instruction helped me with that 👌
Also not saying you're lying, but how are you supposed to get cross more often on this role?
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4 hours ago, Ghost77 said:
My rightfooted wideplaymaker on support in RM position with cross more instruction helped me with that 👌
Could you show examples of how often and clips of them? Would like to see it
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Just had a look at Liverpool's two most recent games.
Trent had quite a few here aswell0 -
2 hours ago, Dr Naysay said:
Genuine question as I dont know. How often do crosses from a player in the halfspace happen in real life? Is three in ten games not realistic?
I looked through some of KDB's crossmaps from the games he's played this season.
2 halfspace crosses, maybe 3 if you're a bit lenient with what is considered halfspace
Well there's obviously only 1 cross here, but he only played like 6 minutes this game, so thought it was still interesting he had a cross there.
Here we have 4 halfspace crosses
Here we have 3, maybe 4 if the one inside the box is counted aswell
Well i guess the point is, considering it's clearly something KDB does several times a game a lot, i think it seems to infrequent in the actual game. I'm still completely open to the fact that i just may not understand how to get my players to do them, but i would love to see actual examples of it happening frequently and on purpose.1 -
19 hours ago, vrig said:
Pretty sure the game doesn't actually count what you might call a half-space cross as a cross. If you work a midfielder into some space and they're the type to try a killer balls or long passes, provided you have someone attacking the back post, it'll happen.
Doesn't even need to be a mezzala. I get these types of passes from a DM(s) into an IF(a) fairly regularly, particularly when I'm using minimum width and focusing play down the flanks. This encourages the midfielders to go into the halfspaces and also ensures the IF is playing up against their CB as often as possible.
I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to do it, but that's what's been working for me lately.
Could you perhaps show some examples? I would like to see how the situation looks when it happens
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5 minutes ago, lied90 said:
The clip you showed is pretty much the only type of situation I see this happen. Winger runs wide and underlaps to a narrow FB who crosses it.
Would be nice if those who say that mezz is perfect for this would post their method and examples of it happening.
Agreed, i've looked through about 15 games of passing maps now, and i found 4 other instances of 'crosses'(counted as a pass) from those areas, and they were all from a winger going byline and going back to a fullback. I even watched through games, seeing the same stuff just where the winger passes to the cm in the same kind of area, but they just never crossed it from there.
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49 minutes ago, Tajerio said:
I wonder if perhaps the game doesn't characterize a half-space cross as an actual cross, and that's why the cross map doesn't show any. Have you watched the games back closely to see if it's happening?
Honestly could be, i've watched back a couple games and found this instance. Here Tomiyasu crosses backpost to Saka from the left half-space, but in the analysis it is counted as a pass.
This is exactly what i'm looking for, now if it's not considered a cross, the question is how to make them do these kinds of passes more often.
As you can see here it is shown under passes, but not in the crosses section
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On 21/04/2024 at 23:39, Cloud9 said:
What foot are your Mezzalas?
I have tried 20+ games of both left and right, doesn't seem to make any difference
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So i have played through more than a season, and looked at every cross map from my team, and there just haven't had a cross from the half-space. I'm not going to claim they never happen, they just seem in my opinion far too rare.
This is just an example of a cross map from one of my games, but is a very good representation of how they look in general.
What i'm wondering is if anyone have a cross map where they see crosses from the marked areas below?
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Thanks for the replies fellas.
6 minutes ago, Poison said:Hmm if the "cross more often" player instruction doesn't help I don't know what will do it. One thing I've noticed, some players (low-ish teamwork maybe?) play to their strengths and ignore some tactical instructions, if your midfielders are poor in crosses maybe they refrain from using them. Maybe try "stay wider" player instruction too so they'll be in the positions that De Bruyne is.
Edit: Also, the player needs good vision and anticipation at least to execute the cross.What i will say i've played about 15 games, and i'm yet to see any real halfspace cross, not just from my rcm, that i want to do it, but in general from any player. I'm clearly doing something wrong.
Also with the stay wider suggestion, that is hardcoded in the mezzala, so shouldn't be an issue. I have also tried with a different role just without the stay wider. And honestly my rcm takes up roughly the same positions, but just doesn't cross it from the right half space0 -
29 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:
You have to take off hit early crosses instruction. It will cause your fullbacks to be the primary crossers in the formation. To get the mezzalas to cross you will need to slow the pace of the tactic to allow the ball time to get to your midfielders.
So these are the cross maps from the last 3 games where i removed the early cross team instruction and lowered the tempo. I won't lie i'm just really confused as to how to achieve this0 -
Well that was what i was thinking, but my players just never do them. I've tried loads of different combinations of instructions to make it happen, whether it's leave the role as default, tell it cross more, apply the early cross team instruction, my players just refuse to cross from the half space.
These are my cross maps for my last 3 games, and the one from 10 that looks like the right position, didn't actually seem like a cross when watching it back, was more of a through ball, not sure why it counted as a cross.
This is what i've been trying recently, the Mez on support has cross more often instruction aswell.
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So one thing in football that I enjoy watching in real life is half space crosses, especially when De Bruyne does them, but both Kimmich and Trent are the two other players I see do them extremely well.
This is an example of the kind of scenario I'm talking about. De Bruyne in the right half space putting in a back post cross, with both Gündogan and even someone else completely unmarked lurking even further backpost, just out of the image
So i was wondering if anyone had a way to get a specific player to do them often in FM. Curious to hear any ideas.
Thanks
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I understand the preference of setting up a system in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or anything of that ilk, and have that transform in game to 3-2-5 and 2-3-5 like pep, arteta and many others do in real life. I also really want that to work, and while i have had some succes getting the ingame movement i want along with good results, the closest representation i have been able to get of what i wanted was just to simply put that formation i wanted in the tactics creator. I wanted us to attack in 3-2-5, so the formation i chose to go with was this.
I've elected to sacrifice my off ball structure being how i would have wanted it to be the most, to get the exact offensive movement i was looking for.
Not saying you cant try it the other way, just another option to consider.1 -
1 hour ago, chucklehead said:
Hi folks
I've wanted to create one of these 'advanced' formations / tactics for a while, but don't really have the know-how to do it, so this is really helpful, cheers.
Quick question if you don't mind though: would I be right in thinking you need a pretty competitive team to pull this off? Not, for example, a 1st season in the prem team?
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do it first season with any prem team. Obviously depends on what you expect to achieve. Should be able to create a tactic based on the ideas and do well with anyone i'd think honestly
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), but the whole point of this thread is to increase the frequency.
3-2-5 Attacking Shape from 4-2-3-1 DM AM Wide ----- GORGEOUS football
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
I imagine all you mentioned had an impact, but since you're Arsenal, i assume you dominate most games, and get alot of corners, so that probably contributes to it aswell.