julle17

I personally don't think it's possible to get it faithful to what Pep or Arteta do irl. If the goal is to just get the shape though. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to achieve the right shape from a 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-3 formation

Gk: nothing Rb: sit narrower Rcb: nothing Lcb: stay wider LB: nothing Dmr: nothing Dml: nothing Amr: nothing Amcr: Get further forward, Move into channels Aml: Stay wider Stcl: nothing Personally the defensive solidity of the double pivot, is worth it in exchange of trying to have a more faithful replication like you and have the Xhaka role in Lcm. I have given a bit thought to trying the wide players in ML and MR to see how it influences the play in terms of keeping width longer. Might give it a spin, could maybe also make it even more solid defensively.

So i have been playing around for the last bit of time in FM trying to recreate Arsenals tactic. Now my attempt isn't a faithful attempt to try and really get it from real life into FM. I thought of my attempt more as what generel dynamics happen when Arsenal play. And then how do i implement some of them, while creating a tactic that will actually perform well in FM. Not saying this is in any way a super tactic or anything, but it did overachieve while producing football resembling some of the things happening irl. So lets start with the shape. Arsenal for the most part defend in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 shape, from what i've seen. So i settled on this shape in game: With this shape we often press in 4-2-4, while not exactly what Arsenal do, gave a very effective high press in game, which i think we can all agree Arsenal have in real life. And when defending more settled we often had a hybrid 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 shape, even sometimes because of Xhaka's attack duty, we sometimes ended up defending in a 4-1-4-1. Now with the roles as seen in the picture I had to leave things from irl, that I just found impossible to translate in game, or at least the tactic as whole not becoming much worse as result. The biggest issue in terms of roles are with Xhaka. Getting a replica in terms of movements more alike real life with Zinchenko tucking in and Xhaka being higher, i would've wanted him in LCM with a mezzala role. But from what i tried the tactic as whole just become much worse, despite getting the movement from both players i actually wanted to replicate real life. Instead i settled at what you see above. There was still times though we would achieve the right 3-2-5/2-3-5 structure that Arsenal so often employ when settled in attack. Ben Whites role is another one where i think a FB-s role would suit better in terms of replicating real life, i just found if i did that Saka was often isolated too much, and he wasn't with WB-s, Maybe if i had a more attack minded RB i would use FB-s instead, could be interesting to see at least. One thing i was pleasantly surprised by was the interchanges between my striker and left winger, without any added instructions to encourage it, it just happened naturally that they rotated, resembling what Martinelli and Jesus do irl. Looking at the instructions: These are not necessarily aimed at recreating Arsenal, but more performing in FM. But i would say for the most part there aren't many of them that go against what Arsenal try to do. Run at defence is probably the most questionable one, and if i was to make a faithful recreation i would leave out. I do however often feel that without it, my players often have alot of space in front of them and just doodle around with the ball instead of moving into space, which is what i want from them, hence it's there. Now for the results: We nearly got a domestic treble, which i am pleased with. The Europa League got tanked on purpose because of schedule just being too crammed and the Prem was the priority. Now 90 goals in the league i am very happy with, but what i am most happy with is the 20 goals conceded. That i think is a very very good defensive record. Oh also just to end i use these OIs.

This is how the tactic looks, the three others in the defensive line and the dm have been told to pass shorter, otherwise there's not been touched any passing settings

And i guess what i mean by playing out the back against a side like Liverpool, isn't patient faffing about in my own box, but when they press in the game there's always some man left open, so i guess what i am actually interested in, is if anyone have found a way to get their team to find the spare man consistently, when the opposition press as shown in the video, or just in general against a high pressing side

These were his instructions for that game, and no play out the back instruction was on, just distribute to Centre backs

2023-04-11_01-11-01.mp4 So here is an example of us playing out the back. The result with Saka getting the ball with Robertson in his back is not actually to bad imo, if only he played it back first time to White. We would've alleviated the first pressure, and be in a good position to consolidate in the midfield i think. Now my biggest issue with the clip is the very first few seconds. I would've liked Saliba to make the pass into Ødegaard. who then lays off to White. From what i know it's not possible to specify a pattern like this, but in this instance against Liverpool i would've liked that to happen. For the most part i like the structure, apart from maybe Saka a bit wider.

So I like making tactics and trying them with Arsenal, since i think they have a quite versatile strong squad, while not being incredibly op. While making these tactics, and trying them i obviously end up playing Liverpool and City, who are for me notoriously difficult to play out the back against. I've been able to make tactics that win against them quite often, but not in the particular way i would like. Right now i am working on sort of an Arteta inspired tactic, but i wouldn't call it a replica. But enough of the style is still based on complete control, and i would like to be able to consistently be able to play out against the best sides aswell. So my question is not necessarily about direct tactical changes i should make, but more have any of you been able to achieve in the first season playing out the back against those two sides, without being either Liverpool or City? And if you did, anything you think was reason for it happening

Pretty sure i had every player man marking whoever they are stood near in the picture

Specific player marking, and the lopsided striker and wingback slot are needed imo, if it's a fullback he doesn't sit high enough, and striker towards the side makes sure he sticks to that cb. haven't noticed anything that roles really do differently

I've been trying both in Fm 22 and 23, the closest i've gotten was just full individual player man marking, and honestly against lesser teams it was actually very effective. Here we somewhat achieve the structure, it's a bit awkward because dortmund don't really play out the back, but did get a couple situations looking like this. I would've liked to be able to set up in a regular 4-3-3, but need to lopside it a bit to get the defensive structure to look like this, if the striker is in the middle he doesn't stick properly to the Rcb, and the right fullback needs to be in the wingback slot, or he wont be high enough to properly press the fullback

Sorry i worded that wrong. I meant that i don't think it makes much sense to compare roles just by making a quick tactic and simulating with that role used. Would make more sense to me to make a tactic with the aim of either maximizing Hålands scoring, or find which role within the tactic makes it tick better.

Not gonna lie, without the rest of the tactic used, it's pretty hard to use those numbers for anything.

The only thing I use is just showing the wide cbs and fullbacks onto their opposite foot, so left cb onto his right foot. Just seems to me it makes a difference in pressing, nothing significant, but does make the press better IMO.

I agree with the focus middle aspect. I might be remembering wrong, but I think Pep somewhat recently said that he prefers his side to play through the middle, even though it's significantly harder, but the rewards are much greater, paraphrasing obviously, but hope you get what I mean. And I think Arteta has the same idea for the most part, shocking I know.

It does, i've been using it a bit, can't tell if it improves performance on my tactics, but i just like the player swap, so i use it

To add to the replication one thing that happens now that Trossard plays instead of Nketiah, and also stood out in the first part of the season with Jesus, was how fluid Martinellis role was, and how he often swapped with Jesus and now Trossard, which he didn't with Nketiah. Could perhaps add the swap position instruction between the striker and left winger

Best replication of Arsenal i've seen on here so far, not really anything in terms of roles i disagree with, and i think your reasoning is sound. One question though, and it might not be anything you've tried, but i'm still going to ask. Have you ever tried replicating the specific way Artetas press is, where on of the wingers tuck in to press a cb, and then the full back would come support that press going on the full back left by the winger?

Personally i don't think the keeper should be set on short kicks if you're going for replication of them right now. Because it's De Gea in net imo they go long more than they would if they had a keeper who's quality with their feet. I think in the long run we will see them play more out the back when they've got a new keeper, but as it is right now they go long more.

Also when do you expect them to be narrow, because in different parts of transitions they will move narrow, and others they'll stay wide

I imagine having the width full and telling the team to focus play down the flanks might be causing it, only thing that stands out to me.

Only thing i can think if that should stop him from coming inside is if you have a dm on the side where your iwb is. Could you post your whole tactic?

Nothing i've tried no, but i do remember the structure we used against spurs, which was actually lopsided compared to how we have pressed most of the time against other teams. So this would be how we set up from Goal kicks. Lloris would pass it to their Lcb, who Ødegaard would press, only short option available is the Lwb, who Saka then would press while covering the passing lane towards Højbjerg in Lcm, either forcing them long, or Højbjerg to drift wide to receive where Partey would be very tight on him, while Højbjerg faces towards the sideline At this point i don't really know what to do, because if i achieve the structure from a goal kick, the rest of our defence is so bad theres no point in trying it anyway, and i need to move people around depending on what formation the opponent plays, which is not really something i want to spend my time doing when playing FM. And if i don't go all out with the man marking instructions, and the formation we obviously don't achieve the right structure, so i guess i'm back at that point, where i will just have to be content with the couple things that i can replicate in FM and leave it at that. I will keep trying because i'm a stubborn bastard, but i'm not really even sure what i could try to do differently, feels like i've tried every permutation of instructions that i can think of. If anyone has any ideas please share, i still really want to get this to work

Sometimes, which again is why i have to constantly remind myself there's only a handful of things at once i get right when trying to replicate it, before there's to many thing interfering

Only change from the 4-3-3 presented in the first is the right back has been moved to wing back slot, and is a wb-d. Oh also striker moved to the left