[Challenging for title with young team]

Yeah you’re all probably right. Just wasn’t expecting it to be this easy. 

[Challenging for title with young team]

TBH I’m a bit surprised by the situation I find myself in. Managing RB Leipzig I had a 4 year plan to win the title. In my first season I cleared out all the oldies and bought young promising players. Barring my GK who is 26, my oldest outfield player is 23, the rest range from 18-21. 

My aim was to give these players experience in the hope they could challenge properly in 2/3 years. 

To my surprise, in my second season I now find myself 10 points clear of Bayern with 20 games played. 

if we go on to win the league it will be my youngest team to ever win a title. 

is this realistic? 

[Game speed]

yeah it happened to me. But instead of jumping to 5 star it now shows 10 stars and before I've even managed to click my mouse to process the fixtures i notice that they've already been processed. 

[Good young right backs are quite hard to find...]

check out the young Brazilian by the name of Dodo. 

awesome dribbler, great in an advanced WB position, especially if your team plays without wingers of IFs and you need someone to dominate the wings from deep. 

[Brexit]

well lets just assume then if its a 50 50 split for people remaining or leaving, then the 50% who remain will be playing a very unrealistic game. 

And like it or not, brexit will 100% happen now. 

[FM20 - Bundesliga(s) Thread]

Having an amazing season with RB Leipzig after many failed saved as i just could't get into it. Playing a counter attacking 5-1-2-2. Trying to build for the future so my average age of my first XI is 21. 

Finished 2nd first season, not far behind Bayerm, only 8 or so points, mainly due to the inexperience of my team i think. I did also win our first European trophy, having been knocked out the CL group stages, going straight into the Europa. Hard to take at the time but a blessing in disguise i think. 

Started second season well, smashing Bayern 4-1 in the super cup. Looking forward to the season ahead and finally a save i can get into. 

My formation also seem like its a good fit for the gegenpress style I've been trying to implement, only slight tweak is a slightly reduce high line. Never been a big fan of that in this game with balls over the top so prevalent in leading to goals conceded. will post tactic later. 

[Brexit]

After the news that the conservatives have won the election will SI hard code Brexit to definitely happen in the game?

it seems like it's nailed on to happen with Boris winning, and any other outcome doesn't seem realistic now. 

[Injuries]

Is there a piece of code in the game that states the more players you have the more chance you have of injuries occurring? 
 

I can go the whole seasons with 23 players and not tend to get any long term injuries but the minute I boost the team to have around 28/29 the injuries seem to start flowing. 
 

ps I rotate heavily with both scenarios as I think team morale is obviously important to winning stuff. If you’re in the first team squad you play, simple as that.
 

thoughts?  

[3 attackers]

17 minutes ago, pheelf said:

I'm not having a pop at you btw...just making an observation of the limitations of the ME which struggles to adequately deal with such setups, thought I'd clear that up before I respond.

1. While simultaneously pressing the opposition characterized by the gegenpress? You can't remain narrow and compact when you have players constantly vacating their positions to close opposition players down.

2. Simply instructing them to regroup doesn't mean much if the overall defensive shape is weak. Besides, even if they do manage to recover their defensive shape you are left with a midfield consisting of only 2 players which a competent AI should be capable of overwhelming. The point was that they struggle to do that.

3. If you are referring to the PI which asks players to sit narrower then that is an in possession instruction and has limited impact on what they will do when the opposition has the ball.

4. I made no comment on how you setup your central defenders which in my view is okay.

5. My point was that any manager worth his salt would spot this aggressive pressing straight away and instruct their players to play over the press into the midfield where you are outnumbered. Unfortunately, managers thinking you have the beating of them wouldn't react this way and would stay on the low mentality making their players pass the ball slowly and cautiously and when pressed lump the ball forward leading to a cheap turnover of possession.

6. It may be balanced but the point is that the formation dictates how the team sets up defend. Once the ball bypasses your front 3 then you are basically defending with 7 outfield players, at times when your central midfielders and wingbacks get caught forward you could be left with as few as your 3 central defenders.

You asked the question what are the negatives of using this setup, I responded saying that any negatives that do exist the AI isn't capable of exploiting properly which in other words means there are none. I say the tactic is 'ludicrously attacking' because it has 3 attack duty strikers, no defend duty in midfield, wingbacks playing in the WB positions and a high mentality given by the gegenpress. All of which will result in your team pushing all but your three central defenders forward which is very attacking in view.

appreciate the feedback. You've provided some interesting points of view, which after all, is what i was hoping to get. 

1. only the front 3 vacate their positions, the rest of the team are on support/defense duties so the hard pressing wired into the tactic doesn't transmit to them as much as say if they were on attacking duties. How i understand it, its like passing, the higher the mentality, the more chances someone will take e.g riskier passes, its the same with pressing, the higher the mentality, the more pressing someone will do.  

2. IMO the defensive shape isn't weak, OK maybe not the strongest, but as i said, I've counter balanced that by squeezing the space and playing narrow. 

3. What i mean about playing WBs in a more narrow position, it means they rarely get isolated and always have an easy pass to make. Often when i would play with them in wide positions i noticed they were losing the ball on the wings and teams would then break on us, i made them sit more narrow with the ball to reduce the chances of them giving the ball away cheaply.  They literally always have someone close to them to pass to. 

4. yeah fair enough 

5. You say that, but why are Liverpool so hard to beat IRL, same with City. Lots of decent managers out there who've all come unstuck against them

6. i'll agree there are times when we are caught out, but i'd argue that is the same for any tactic on FM20 or in real life for that matter. The questions that needs to be asked is by using a certain formation, what are the benefits and negatives of it. If the benefits far outweigh the negatives whilst also providing football that is fun to watch, then as far as i'm concerned, that is all i want to see. But yeah, i do value your opinion so thanks for the replies. 

[3 attackers]

12 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

 

That's an interesting variation of 'gegenpressing' I must say! 

hahaha  on the face of it, yes your point does sound very valid, allow me to explain though.

I did have the other option ticked to counter press, but we were conceding a few too many goals for my liking, so now i simply let my front three do all the pressing, whilst the rest of the team are set to a more rigid structure. This is usually what happens, (albeit hard to truly know as its from a small game sample) - they end up clearing the ball away up the filed and possession is won back by me and recycled. I actually think this is more realistic to how teams press IRL anyway, you don't often see the whole team press, it is usually the job of the most attacking players, or refined to a group of 3/4 players depending on where the ball is. 

Pep used to manage Barca with the 12 second rule, e.g if the ball wasn't won back in that time then the team would revert to getting behind the ball to stay compact and hopefully win the ball back as the opposition enters their defensive third. 

[3 attackers]

8 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

Will they drop as deep as this when set to attack? Is the pressing forward on attack not pressing from the front, in the style of a Diego Costa, Jamie Vardy type player?

Is something I should perhaps look at more really

you're right, they do tend to lead from the front...but its not too uncommon for my PFs to float around, usually inside the edge of the middle of the pitch, helping to put pressure on, like wolves hunting in packs, someone else then wins the ball and  they counter quickly through the lines. 

[3 attackers]

16 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

its more the fact that when playing IRL, teams don't tend to use three "attacking" strikers all together, unless its panic stations lump it forward football at the very end of a game.

If it works and its enjoyable by all means use the tactic, its not a dig at all

No offence taken  This is an extract from another website about how the pressing forward actually works, couldn't say it better myself so i've chosen to post it verbatim. 

"Due to his exceptional work rate and stamina, the pressing forward will often drop deep into the midfield and help the transition game, even more so than a deep-lying forward or false nine would"

This goes to show that the visual representation of the 3 strikers in my tactic is just purely that, a visual representation. When you look a lot closer under the bonnet of the tactic, the wide strikers actually sit a lot deeper. You would be forgiven for thinking they are wingers if you didn't see the tactic screen.  Saying that, it would be near on impossible to get the winger/IFs to replicate the role of a pressing forward, hence why i go with 3 strikers. 

[3 attackers]

3 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

Wont be any negatives. youll probably absolutely paste everyone.

Would a real football team use tactics like that though? no, that's why it turns me off using it in a game. I know itll work in the game to a crazy level and its not realistic.

But then again neither is hitting the bar 4 times a game and your goalkeeper fumbling it over the line for a corner every other game either.

To be fair, i've only played one competitive game with this tactic, it was away to union Berlin and we won 2-0, all other games have been friendlies and a meaningless cup game against a lower division team. I don't really see why using 3 strikers is cheating or trying to overpower the match engine, teams do play like this IRL, Liverpool being a prime example. This tactic was also borne more out of necessity anyway, i didn't fancy any of RB Leipzig's wingers and as i like Diogo Jota IRL i decided to buy him, whilst also purchasing Erling Haland to see how he plays in the game. 

Plus i never really see the benefit of having wingers/inside forwards when the team i'm managing has WBs, not to say it can't work, i just prefer to keep players in more central positions, i think leads to better passing combinations and its less boring and predictable than going down the wing every time to cross a ball into the mixer. 

[3 attackers]

TBH i'm not entirely sure that it is a "ludicrously attacking" tactic as you point out. 

I'll try to post a screen shot later to show all my instructions but there are a few notable tweaks that i made to make the midfield and more specifically, the tactic more stable. 

1. Team is instructed to be narrow and compact without the ball

2. Team is also instructed to re-group once they've lost the ball, keeping structure and making it harder to play through us

3. Wingbacks are asked to play narrower, essentially tucking in to help fill out the middle of the pitch by staying in close proximity with the MCs,  again this keeps us compact. 

4. As stated above in the OP, CBs push forward to squeeze the space, but to counter the ball over the top, the middle CB is on a cover duty. 

5. Team consists of two pressing forwards who aim to continually harass the opposition. You say its too attacking, but the basis of the tactic is based on hard work 

6. Last point, my team has 5 support duties, 3 defensive and 3 attacking. Again, this is fairly balanced in my opinion.  

[3 attackers]

I've noticed whenever people setup 3 attackers they always have the central striker in a deeper role than the two either side. I get the logic for this, essentially without the presence of an AMC, you kinda want the central striker to come deep and link the play, a bit like Firmino for Liverpool IRL. 

Saying all of that, i've actually just created a tactic that goes against that principle. Managing RB Leipzig, i've gone with a gegenpressing 3-4-3 tactic, and i'm fully aware that this tactic doesn't usually consist of 3 at the back, but due to playing three pure strikers, e.g no players on the wing, i opted for three at the back for a little more defensive stability. 

So here is the team for my 3-4-3

GKS (S)

WBR (S)

DC (D)

BPD (C)

DC (D)

WBL (S)

B2B (S)

MEZ (S)

Pressing forward (A)

Advanced forward (A)

Pressing forward (A) 

So as you can see from above, the most advanced of the three forwards is the AF (A). My reason for not choosing a lower mentality striker is that i want my attackers to set the tone for the press. By playing a very high line, naturally my 3 CBs squeeze the space between defense and attack, meaning the attackers do their pressing in a very confined space, which increases the chances of winning the ball back higher up the pitch. 

Question to the forum is, what do you think are the negatives of setting up the attack like this? 

 

[Too much?]

Lacazette was in a real funk, hadn't scored a goal for about 2 months and his back up, Nketiah, was also not firing on all cylinders either. 

In my second season with 10 PL games left i was seriously in danger of throwing the league away. 

So what did i do? 

I went and spunked 263m on Mbappe. 3 x 40m to be paid over 3 seasons and 143m upfront. 

It was a drastic solution which did fix my problem, we started winning again and look like we'll see out the league, but part of me still thinks i paid too much. 

I'm sure if i sell him in 5 seasons i'll get back my money, or if he retires after 15 years at the club then that works out at 17.5m per season, not that much when you consider it that way, but it kinda goes against my ethos as a football manager. So maybe i'll just punish myself and won't spend any money for 3 seasons.  

So i guess it begs the question - what are the greatest lengths you've gone to which helped you achieve your goals and how did it make you feel? 

on a side note, fully expected Mbappe to be cup tied for CL games as i signed him at the start of the knock out round, but he wasn't and i was able to register him - surely this is a bug? 

[FM19: Arsenal - Au Revoir Monsieur Wenger, Hola Señor Emery]

didn't think i'd buy FM19 this year, bought it every season since 2007 but finally succumbed as i saw it on offer for £10. 

Decided i'd try and replicate Arsenal's transfer business IRL so bought Martinelli, Saliba, Pepe, Ceballos and Tierney (although he's not been signed IRL yet)

Sold Elneny and a host of other fringe players. 

Season has gone really well. better than expected. Decided to opt for a 4-3-2-1 but with a flat 3 in midfield. 

GK: Leno

WBR (A): Bellerin

CB: (D) Sokratis

BPD: (D) Holding

WBL (S) Tierney

AP: (A) Ozil

B2B: (S) Torreira

DLP: (S) Ceballos

IF: (S) Pepe

IF: (A) Aubameyang

DLF (S) Lacazette 

Team started like a house on fire and stormed up the league. Really wanted to shoe horn Aubameyang and Lacazette into the same team but didn't want to play two up top so opted for Aubameyang on the left but with an attacking mentality to try and maximise his goal tally.

It took a while to tweak my tactics, really wanted to get everyone chipping in with goals but still have Aubameyang as the main attacking threat. He went on a dry spell but now its working really well. 2 games to go in the league and 6 points ahead and Aubameyang has 30 goals, Lacazette's got 20 and Pepe has 15.  

Ozil has even chipped in with 6 which i'm happy about as he's playing in a deeper position than naturally accustomed to. The big surprise for me is Torreira, he's been brilliant in the B2B role. He's managed to weigh in with 7 goals and also been the main defensive player in the middle. Ceballos has around 5 goals and then the defense has 5/6 shared between them. 

Hoping to see out the league, draw away at Palace will clinch it for me. If i lose i will then face City at home and will likely only be 3 points ahead. 

Lost in the league cup in the first round, away to Watford - losing 2-1 to two late goals. 

Got to the semi of the FA cup but lost to Chelsea. 

Currently in the semi final of the Europa and am favorites to progress so all in all, a really great season so far. Much more than i expected. 

Going to sell Mustafi and Koscienly at the end of the season and then try to integrate some more of the youth players who have been on loan, players like Saka, Smith, Nelson etc. 

Did manage to play Willock from the start and he's been great, averaging 7.50 throughout the season - amazing dribbling MC. Great at transitioning with pace and got a great eye for goal so he'll eventually replace Ozil. 

Think i'll try and sign Upamecano from RB Leipzig, other than that i don't think i'll buy anyone else. 

Might be tempted to buy a striker but Nketiah has managed to get a handful of goals for me but i've been lucky with injuries to my front 3, probably be sensible to have more back up as they are virtually running on empty. 

But must say i'm very happy with my purchase. money well spent. Even if i only play this season, its been well worth the tenner i spent.

[Anyone here not rotate their squad?]

i have around 28 players and i rotate all the time. This is especially true for my front three. My strikers consist of M'bappe, cavani, neymar, dolberg, martinez and weah and they have pretty much all played a similar amount of games throughout my last season. Maybe i do this because my tactic is super aggressive with strikers expected to close down all the time and run around like mad men. 

Some may not agree with my management style but its great knowing that i can throw any combination of players together and they'll still score goals for me because they all get to play regularly and morale is always high. 

i also think this helps in relation to team dynamics. All my players are used to playing with a good number of different combinations.