CEVR1996
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Posts posted by CEVR1996
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15 minutos atrás, XaW disse:
As I answered you above, we have removed some vile comment (and handed out bans from them) already. If you really question that, have a look in the Twitter comments under the announcement. We had some of the same here, but fortunately not as bad.
There are no one here who will stop you from saying you don't like it. Some might question you opinion, in the same way you question SI's to do this. As long as everyone follows the house rules of being respectful and shy away from sexism, abuse, or harassment, there are no reason to remove posts.
For what it's worth I've yet to see any reasonable objection to it. I mean, SI have said they are doing this on the side of the normal development and thus will not impact the regular features. So there is no lost features for those who don't want to play with teams in women's football. As a political statement, I'd say it's pretty clear that SI have made political statements before, with inclusion of players coming out as gay, rainbow flags, as well as contributions to various charities. There are questions about including other leagues, but as Neil have said above this is often due to low sales in those countries and/or problems in scouting or licensing.
So other than those questions that are already addressed by SI, what are your objections to adding it?
I don't have any objections towards this particular project, just concerns regarding the future of the franchise if the company decides to become overtly political and have a greater emphasis on promoting cultural causes than actually deliver a fun and well made game which any diehard football fan who seeks to abstract themselves from the politically twisted and ideological madness of the real world can enjoy.
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4 minutos atrás, themadsheep2001 disse:
To be clear, people are absolutely fine to have their own constructive views for or against. But let's not for one second pretend we havent had to delete dozens of posts and ban at least a dozen posters. And none of it was anything to with concern. It was purely sexist and offensive comments. Just because you didn't see them doesn't mean it didn't happen
I haven't said they didn't happen, there will always be people who spew out vile rethoric against what they don't like, it's the aforementioned scale of said hate aimed at this specific subject that has left me on the back foot but I'll take your word for it.
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22 minutos atrás, SD disse:
Well according to SI director Miles Jacobson that line isn't drawn at abuse as you claim, but mere concerns and criticism. I've already crossed that line and apparently the game is no longer for me.
I've also raised this point and was told that there were in fact a bunch of comments here spewing vitriol towards women's football but I didn't got to see any of them personally. I'm not sure what to believe at this point but it's clear that SI is branching out towards political activism, not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but with politics and cultural issues having been pushed heavily into real world football as of late, it would only be a matter of time until the video game companies which own franchises representing the sport followed suit to keep up with the trend.
What I won't stand along for is the idea of treating those who hold their fair share of reservations about this particular move with profound disdain simply because they dare to question such decision and express a concern for how it will impact the development and management process of upcoming iterations.
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23 minutos atrás, Federico disse:
I think it has to be related on how women football is percieved in their own countries, maybe. In example, I might assume people from US or UK or France or even Spain are excited from it. I personally live in Italy, women football is a movement that is growing up, but very very very slowly. It peaked like a couple of years ago during the World Cup and then... I don't know. I'm not saying it's ignored but we're very very far away from anglophone countries or other continental countries figures.
I personally watched some game and I was bored to death. So that's why I don't think I will give it a go. Never say never, anyway.
I do believe women's football still has plenty of leeway left to raise it's international visibility and popularity and I'd be happy to see more efforts being made towards that end but it will never get anywhere near the heights of it's male counterpart, and the reason is simple: biology. Man are faster, stronger and more physically resilient on average, that comes as part of their inherent biological composition, which makes up for a more entertaining spectacle and greater feats of athleticism on the pitch.
23 minutos atrás, Federico disse:I think it has to be related on how women football is percieved in their own countries, maybe. In example, I might assume people from US or UK or France or even Spain are excited from it. I personally live in Italy, women football is a movement that is growing up, but very very very slowly. It peaked like a couple of years ago during the World Cup and then... I don't know. I'm not saying it's ignored but we're very very far away from anglophone countries or other continental countries figures.
I personally watched some game and I was bored to death. So that's why I don't think I will give it a go. Never say never, anyway.
I might have made an accidental double citation...
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1 minuto atrás, Daveincid disse:
I'm sorry to worry you
If you have seen how many comments had to be removed in this thread it's kinda obvious. But yes, there is room left for interpretation.
In the end it's pretty simple (IMO):
- They are going to implement it, end of story.
- They indirectly said it won't take ressources away of creating new features and ongoing fixes.
- They have ambitions to try out new things
I still don't see any reason to see this negative at all, no matter if you are for or against womens football.
I'm just having an hard time believing that there are this many people within the FM community who hold such negative feelings towards women's football for no apparent reason other than shere spite for the sport. I may have my own reservations on this particular subject but none of them is geared towards an antagonistic view against women representation in the sport. Nonetheless, they'll be answered once the game rolls out in November.
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24 minutos atrás, Daveincid disse:
I do, but it's all good if you don't. Different opinions are great, disrespect isn't.
"If somebody thinks that putting womens football into football manager is going to ruin their experience".
Sorry but this is far away from a level where you can discuss respectfully.
The question is if there really were people claiming that the addition of women's football to FM would ruin the game for them or if Miles made this statement as a response to legitimate concerns raised by the player community regarding wether other areas of the game would see noticeable improvements as well or not since this undergoing project will obviously consume plenty of the development's team time and resources. If they have in fact expanded the staff ranks then I suppose there won't be an issue but perhaps these were questions being brought foward which end up getting misconstrued as an aversion to the idea of having woman players in the game.
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58 minutos atrás, phd_angel disse:
Excellent commentary. Yes, we are all for inclusion, but check the female football demographic to see it's predominantly white college folks from very rich countries (check the images!). In the meantime, Third World leagues from poor/brown countries are not included on FM due to "low interest". So, yeah, it becomes "the right thing to do" when business opportunism and social pressure come together...
Quite frankly, I care more about FM product quality (lack thereof). Blame it on gamers (like myself) for accepting a product that is fun but of relatively mediocre quality over the years... As long as SI has a near monopoly on the genre, they can show rude attitude, do whatever they please, and will continue providing a crappy product and grow in the market, for as long as there is no serious competition...
I'm glad someone made this point! If SI didn't saw a potential avenue to boost their company ratings and market profits by taking this approach, they wouldn't have went along with it. Virtue is second to profit in the business world, let's not pretend otherwise and act like they're adding women's football leagues to FM merely out of a concern for inclusion because if so, we could make the argument as to why they haven't yet included more leagues to the game from predominantly non white nations and continents.
For example, the only playable league you have available in Africa is the South African one, why is that? Aren't the African players who play in their native countries worthy of inclusion and representation as well? It can be pointed out that there are independent content creators who have made numerous non playable leagues playable using the editor but if that is what's going to shut down the debate, then couldn't the women's leagues and database also be created by one such creator in their spare time using this same tool?
I do think nonetheless that it's a good thing for FM to reach new heights and this is by no means a step backwards in any way or form but I also think it's rather disingenuous to make this entirely about inclusion and representation instead of addressing the reality at hand...SI is not a non profit organisation looking to promote social causes, it's a company that seeks to make a good profit above everything else, that's the end goal, the rest are business practices put in place to try and accomplish said goal as best as possible.
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Things have gotten a little better since the initial post, I guess I was being unlucky for the most part.
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This is one of the most incomprehensive situations I´ve ever had on an FM save, somehow my team has been very prolific in home games but when it plays elsewhere, it turns into the complete opposite despite managing to produce similar figures overall in terms of shots and chances created. This is messing up my current save because I´m looking to get promoted and as such, can´t afford to be losing points every time I travel abroad. The tactic plays out rather similarly both at home and away games, the main difference being the extreme discrepancy around the conversion rates, something that seems completely inexplicable to me and I don´t know how to fix the problem. The shooting aspect is beyond my immediate control as is the ability of the other team´s goalkeeper to make saves, which they appear to do more effectively on those dastardly away matches.
As you can see, the home games have been a walk in the park thus far but away, it looks as if something is switched off and my attackers suddently struggle to score although the chances to do so are there nonetheless. I don´t get it but this is becoming really frustrating and I don´t want to be making a bunch of arbitrary tactical tweaks for the sake of changing things since that would mess up the existing team cohesion and likely lead to a less than ideal outcome.
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Over the last 4 games, the team has been absolutely shocking, they can't defend nor attack and I have no idea what to do about it. In my most recent fixture, I had to scrap the tactic altogether and select one of the available tactical templates because of how bad the team was performing, they looked like a bunch of deeply intoxicated amateurs, unable to make two consecutive successful passes . Things did improve substantially after I did that but now I'm at a complete loss because the tactic I was hoping to be able to rely on for this first season has seemingly became useless.
I'm currently on a 4 game winless streak and the team is looking like they would even struggle against a non league side.
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17 horas atrás, lfds89 disse:
Do you have the players to do it? If you only have 2 players on the midfield they need high work rate and teamwork. They should also have aggression (to close down), anticipation (to read the situation), concentration (to remain focused) and positioning
Sadly, this Wycombe squad isn´t fitted with players of such quality yet somehow, I´m still pulling off good results for now. There will be games where my defense struggles to do anything right and as a result, the opposition are allowed to have an absolute field day in their final third but even when that happens, I don´t tend to do a lot of fiddling around with the tactics for fear of making things worse. I suppose that at times, you´re simply not meant to have it easy nor come out on top, especially when managing smaller teams.
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How do I stop big teams from scoring screamers for fun against me? It completely defeats the purpose of maintaining a more defensive approach when your opponent can just bang them from distance, Norwich did that 3 times in the last game yet my players struggle to hit the goal anywhere outside the box. I know my defense is awful but still, there should be a way to make them less useless. All they need to do is stand in front of the ball carrier so that any attempts at goal are blocked yet they keep leaving gaps between the lines.
I obviously don´t expect to hold onto a clean sheet for most games , it´s impossible when your team is this short in quality but I also don´t want to see such pitiful displays of defensive ineptitude on a regular basis.
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Well colour me surprised, I wasn´t at all expecting the first league game of the season to go like this. The counter attacking approach worked wonders despite my defense still looking a little dodgy at times. I´ve even benefited from a ghost goal which elevated me from surprised to utterly baffled. When my team scored the 5th goal, the number 5 only stood for a brief moment in the scoreboard and then suddently went up to 6 out of nowhere whilst the replay was still playing, scored by the guy who had assisted that previous goal, absolutely bonkers. I´ll have to rewatch the match highlights to catch that misterious Obita goal.
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1 hora atrás, Zemahh disse:
If you find you're having issues with the above setup, you could also try something like this:
AFat TMat
WMsu CMde BBMsu Ws
FBsu NCBde BPDde FBsu
This would be a less aggressive version, maybe better suited to bottom of the barrel teams. One winger is replaced by a Wide Midfielder, who's not hard-coded to dribble at all times, so it should help with ball retention and being more patient when the counter isn't on. Full Backs are a safer choice, if you lack players capable of driving down the flanks aggressively, as well as being defensively solid. Here, you're mostly counting on the two strikers to do things on their own.
In a setup like this, I'd also make sure my set pieces are immaculate. When you're grinding out draws and 1-0s, goals scored from free kicks and corners can make a huge difference.
I´m certainly having some issues here, the defense is dreadful, they look like a bunch of training pins who do nothing but watch the opposition run past them with utmost ease and I´m not even talking about great opposition for starters. Defensive set pieces are also a complete disaster, my players can´t seem to win any headers...I really wasn´t expecting things to be this bad. Honestly, I have serious doubts concerning the possibility of making this team somewhat solid at the back.
Also, I had to ditch the BPD because none of my CB´s is a competent passer and they basically keep wasting possession with terrible passes to no man´s land. In the attack, the situation is not as dire but there´s still a lack of objectivity and good off the ball movement for the most part.
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1 hora atrás, Zemahh disse:
There's different ways of achieving counter-attacking football. When it comes to Mentality, I see two options:
A) Low-risk approach (low-risk Mentality)
Players tolerance for risk-taking will be low. While attacking transitions can be modified with Instructions such as More Direct Passing or Higher Tempo, players will still remain relatively risk-averse. They may look for direct passes or make decisions quicker with said Instructions, but decisions they make will generally be the ones they deem to be low-risk.
Automatically triggered counter-attacks will still happen. Those trigger when certain conditions under the hood are met and when they do, player's Mentalities, Tempo and Passing Directness are maxed out regardless of your setup. There may be games when there's plenty and games when there's none, depending on the opposition.
B) High-risk approach (high-risk Mentality)
Players tolerance for risk-taking will be high. They may battle for possession aggressively and look for positive passes the moment they win the ball back. Because their risk-taking threshold is high, they will consider more options than they would otherwise.
The goal of this approach is to sort of replicate the automatically triggered counters. You're not relying solely on opposition pushing enough men forward for them to be triggered under the hood, instead you're asking your team to be forward-minded from the get-go. A high risk, high reward type of approach.
For me, it comes down to what kind of risk I'm willing to take. I'm either risking not creating many chances, since you can obviously only create so much without taking any risks, or risking chances being created against me, since players may be more willing to press, mark tighter or lunge into tackles on higher Mentalities.
I also like to quote @THOG's Mentality tables, from his Lines and Diamonds guide. They may help you visualize different Mentalities and help you see why some people prefer high-risk Mentalities for counter-attacking tactics:
As for your tactic, I don't see many glaring issues. I'd move the Roles around a little though and change one WBde to a Role that provides more width behind the IW:
PFat TMsu
IWsu CMde BBMsu Wat
FBat NCBde BPDde WBde
For a side like Wycombe, I'd maybe also lower the Mentality down to Positive and aim for a mid block (Higher Defensive Line, Standard Line Of Engagement), since the pressure that comes with low blocks may be too much for the quality of your squad. Keep in mind that 4-4-2's defensive positioning is already quite low naturally.
Also, I don't use a TM often, since I find he can make your play quite one-dimensional (ball magnet players will look for with direct balls often), but I know Rashidi had a very successful counter-attacking system with one in his Hannover save:
Maybe it helps you find some inspiration.
It did help a whole lot, thank you. The reason I went with a AF TM combo is because I have two very strong fowards with great heading ability in Ikpeazu and Akinfenwa, the later not being particularly tall but nonetheless, has all the remaining traits of a natural target man. On the other hand, I also have 3 quick strikers who seem perfectly capable of making the most out of any second balls that bounce off the TM into the space behind the opposition´s defense, something I see happening with moderate frequency on the match engine. It all seems to make sense to me on paper at least.
The overall tecnhincal ability of this team is abysmal so I can´t expect them to do anything fancy with the ball at their feet but I´m sure they can hoof it long across the pitch for someone to run at.
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2 horas atrás, Experienced Defender disse:
It is the setup of roles and duties - not instructions - that primarily defines both your style of play and the overall quality and soundness of your tactic. Instructions, including the mentality, come later. They need to be in harmony with your setup of roles and duties as well as between themselves in order to avoid any tactical contradictions. But a balanced and logical setup of roles and duties should be your first priority when creating a tactic.
Unfortunately, I am not much of an optimist when it comes to your current tactic, but at the same time I don't want to discourage you from the very beginning. So let's wait and see.
NOTE: If you want to play any kind of defensive football - either counter-attacking or more passive - you need to make sure that both your defenders and midfielders (particularly central ones) are defensively reliable players. Because otherwise you are unlikely to withstand the pressure from opposition for an extended period of time (especially when playing against really strong teams).
In all honesty, I only took the liberty to define the roles and duties of the players myself within the formation so I would have something to show here, because I´m also quite unsure about those. I really don´t know what combinations work best to produce a functional and sensible tactic, hence why so far, it´s been none other than a process of pure intuition and blind faith when it comes to allocating specific roles, duties and general instructions to my team. This has in some cases led to great results yet it´s definitely not the greatest of situations to be in a position where you can´t make sense of why you´re winning, no matter how well things are going.
Also, defensively reliable ins´t necessarily the term I would use to describe any of my players, something along the lines of "defensively permeable" would seem more fitting but still, a guy can hope and I sure need to because there´s no way I can get better players at the moment. You know, it does serve as a small piece of consolation in the face of a defeat to think that due to the inherent lack of quality from the players you have at your disposal, winning said game would have been an overachievement as opposed to losing being an underachievement.
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Em 07/04/2021 em 23:39, Zemahh disse:
If you could make a new thread with a screenshot of the tactic you're using, that'd be great. Just so that we don't hijack OPs thread here.
But if you're talking about the 4-4-2 from my Dorking Wanderers save, I remember flanks being the most vulnerable part of that tactic. You could check your Analyst Report to confirm exactly what type of goals you're conceding and where the assists are coming from, but Very Attacking Mentalities on both flanks (Attacking Mentality + Wingers on Attack Duty) are always going to cause some issues defensively. I'd say defenders with excellent Jumping Reach and Heading are a must in any low-block tactic.
I´ve just opened a new thread with the tactic I´m looking foward to employ in my new save and I´d really like to get your feedback on it. It´s pretty similar to the one you made for Dorking Wanderes but it has received a couple tweaks since my last post.
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I decided to start a save with Wycombe Wanderes, one of the main underdogs in the Championship this season so I figured that adopting a counter attacking approach would be the most sensible route to follow since I´m expecting my opposition to come at me in full force in the vast majoirty of fixures across the season. That said, I´m not exactly sure what team and individual instructions to select in order to create a defensively sound system which can withstand relentless pressure throughout 90 minutes without crumbling like a house of cards and have me getting battered on a regular basis.
I´ve noticed that in this game, inviting the opposition into your own half by sitting back and not pressing the ball carrier is a risky business because sooner or later, they´ll find an opening from which to shoot towards goal or pick out an incisive pass to a teammate as there certainly won´t be a shortage of time to create goal scoring chances when the other team basically has nearly all of the possession in more advanced areas of the pitch. This is my current tactical setup, I was told that sticking to an attacking mentality will help with triggering counter attacks at every possible oportunity, increasing the odds of catching the opposiiton off guard but my main concern is defense related due to the aforementioned circumstances.
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15 horas atrás, Zemahh disse:
If you could make a new thread with a screenshot of the tactic you're using, that'd be great. Just so that we don't hijack OPs thread here.
But if you're talking about the 4-4-2 from my Dorking Wanderers save, I remember flanks being the most vulnerable part of that tactic. You could check your Analyst Report to confirm exactly what type of goals you're conceding and where the assists are coming from, but Very Attacking Mentalities on both flanks (Attacking Mentality + Wingers on Attack Duty) are always going to cause some issues defensively. I'd say defenders with excellent Jumping Reach and Heading are a must in any low-block tactic.
I will be doing that shortly. And yes, I did make a close copy of your Dorking tactic with only a few minor alterations like a box to box midfielder instead of a standard CM on support duty and the DLP has been given a defensive role to balance things out. I think I´ve also instructed the team to cross into the box from deeper positions to try taking advantage of having two pure strikers upfront who will move very high up the pitch whenever my team is in possession.
Judging from what I´ve seen in the match engine, the fullbacks were the ones responsible for most of the defensive problems due to them constantly leaving big gaps of open space along the backline, putting extra pressure on the CB´s or being too passive when confronting an opposing attacker, often allowing for an easy passage. I´d say they are by far the greatest detriment towards the goal of achieving defensive solidity.
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Em 05/04/2021 em 19:32, Zemahh disse:
I also enjoy fast-transitions football very much and my personal favourite tactic in FM is an Attacking 4-4-2 w/ low block. I find it can produce some scintillating counters and often break all kinds of scoring records against teams that give you space, however, it does start falling flat once your reputation improves to the point you're a favourite going into every match. FM is difficult in that regard, because AI tends to become very defensive very quick, it's nothing like teams in real life, where even the biggest underdogs will approach games bravely at times.
If you're interested, I documented my approach to counter-attacking here.
Since I usually manage in lower leagues, I find this style of football the easiest to climb the tiers with. The idea isn't to sit back and wait for automatically generated counters, but rather to go balls to the wall and commit plenty of men forward at every opportunity.
I closely recreated your tactical setting whilst managing Schalke and although it performed quite well offensively, with numerous defense splitting passes to isolate one of my fowards made from deep positions, the defensive side turned out to be an absolute disaster and I was conceding far too many goals. I don´t know if this is a fault of the actual match engine itself but defenders seem to make so many silly mistakes, it´s unbeliavble, from constantly missing interceptions, to tackling the ball straight to the opposition or taking far longer than what´s reasonable to react to the ongoing events around them and take action, so it appears like allowing your opponent to have most of the ball and come at you in the current ME build is asking for trouble.
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Em 06/04/2021 em 16:06, Tsuru disse:
Ah, ok. Then I think it is even easier.
As a starting point, maybe Balanced or Positive Mentality + Shorter Passing + Narrow/Extremely Narrow Width (maybe Be More Expressive), Distribute to Full Backs and Centre Backs, maybe Counter-Press, Higher Defensive Line.
You can add Higher Tempo if you play on Balanced or want more quickness on Positive. I think a 4141 DM Wide or a 5212 are perfect for this kind of playstyle, then you can balance roles/duties to balance quickness, movement and possession.
Thank you for the tips, I went with a 4-4-1-1 which I have adjusted accordingly but this will be my secondary tactic for the time being, meant to overpower substantially weaker opposition, likely lower league sides on cup games. The main one is a 4-4-2 direct counter that has been producing a good amount of one on one instances with the goalkeeper, just as I like to see but it´s rather dodgy at the back with my defense making plenty of mistakes (mistiming interceptions, giving the ball away in dangerous areas and often shying away from tackles, allowing the other team to pick out a dangerous pass), not sure how to fix this particular problem without buing a whole new defensive line.
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51 minutos atrás, Tsuru disse:
I am also not fan of a slow possession football, but it could be a quick possession football (something FM calls "Vertical Tiki Taka"), that is, quick shorter passings. But as I am playing with a lower league team and my team does not have enough power for possession, either quick or slow would not suit it. So I am trying a "direct attack style": press upfront, recover the ball and then attack direct and quickly, using the roles/duties to reinforce the speed. I will play at least one season and then evaluate if it is doing well.
I tend to play with more established and reputable teams, never been a huge fan of lower league management, so perhaps high tempo short passing football could also produce the results I´m looking for in a team that has some technically gifted players. It might actually be a very useful plan B to have when facing more defensive minded opponents that don´t push high up the pitch as I usually struggle against those.
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19 horas atrás, Zemahh disse:
I also enjoy fast-transitions football very much and my personal favourite tactic in FM is an Attacking 4-4-2 w/ low block. I find it can produce some scintillating counters and often break all kinds of scoring records against teams that give you space, however, it does start falling flat once your reputation improves to the point you're a favourite going into every match. FM is difficult in that regard, because AI tends to become very defensive very quick, it's nothing like teams in real life, where even the biggest underdogs will approach games bravely at times.
If you're interested, I documented my approach to counter-attacking here.
Since I usually manage in lower leagues, I find this style of football the easiest to climb the tiers with. The idea isn't to sit back and wait for automatically generated counters, but rather to go balls to the wall and commit plenty of men forward at every opportunity.
I took a good look at your tactical documentation and was able to get some very useful insight out of it, in fact, I´ll be trying to replicate that system in my new Schalke 04 save I´ve just started. Maybe it´s not the ideal team for a full out counter attacking approach as they´re not seen as true league underdogs by the game´s standards although they most certainly appear to be irl but nonetheless, I think this could work if done correctly. The main issue here is finding affordable quick players for the wings and the striker slots which are competent in some other areas of their game such as dribbling or finishing since well, having one dimentional pace merchants probably isn´t going to accomplish all that much. This ain´t FIFA aferall...
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31 minutos atrás, Experienced Defender disse:
If your aim is to win the title/trophy by playing a defensive style of football as your main (or only) tactical style, then it's highly unlikely to happen. After all, keep in mind that the Leicester side you mentioned was much more of an exception than the rule.
My aim is mainly to play a style of football that is simple, effective and pleasent to the eye. Winning titles is more of a secondary concern, as crazy as this may sound. I´ve found myself growing bored of a save on a fair few occasions despite having won titles or at least massively overachieved expectations merely because I didn´t enjoyed the process of watching my team play on the pitch so yeah, getting that part right is certainly of utmost importance to me.
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How we're introducing women's football into Football Manager
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted · Edited by CEVR1996
I'm saying this with those other prior implementations in mind too, the raimbow flags and players coming out as gay, but I've been refraining myself from mentioning it up until now because you never know what people might decide to label you as if you dare to speak up against a push to advertise and promote an ideology inside a realm that should be apolitical by proxy. I'm all for raising awareness towards women's football, it's a righteous step to take no doubt about that but at a time in which nearly everything in polite society has been charged with political rhetoric and turned into a means to push some sort of ulterior agenda, I can't help but feel a certain degree of annoying uncertainty about how that might affect SI in the near future and subsequently FM.