KCHDD
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Posts posted by KCHDD
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Most top level teams play a brand of total football nowadays with a focus of playing vertically and dominating the game. The likes of City and Chelsea focus more on possession of the ball and suffocating opponents that way while Liverpool are more well known for their off the ball pressing work, though they have made significant strides in the former in recent seasons. Even mid to high tier teams like Villa are looking to play in this way. Examples of teams who are learning and picking up this style of play include Arteta's Arsenal and Xavi's Barca.
I have been trying to replicate this type of football in FM, trying to buildup in a 235 or 325 shape and playing a fluid controlled possesion game. The sticking point at the moment appears to the mentality. There have been 2 schools of thought I have encountered so far. 1 is to use positive or even attacking mentality as this allows all outfield players to maintain a good amount of risk taking, fufilling my wish to play vertically. However, I find players can rush decisions or go gung-ho on these higher mentalities which I feel disrupts what I'm trying to do. (Of course this can be attribute related) On the other hand, using balanced mentality allows for the game to be played at a controlled pace, allowing us to retain the ball better and control the game. The reduced mentality allows for the use of aggresive roles without them going solo as I mentioned. The reduced intensity also reduces injury risk. The drawback is the defensive players can become too passive and hoof the ball at times.
What is everyone's experience of trying to play this brand of football and any suggestions for my selection of mentality?
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Any new updates? Particularly interested in the team instructions and choice of mentality
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Is there a way to instruct the AMC to occupy one specific half-space in possession? I am currently looking to create a 3-2-5/2-3-5 attacking shape from a 4-2-3-1 where an inverted winger occupies one half-space and AMC occupies the other. For example, I could have a IW(s) on stay narrow occupying the left channel, then how could I get the AMC to occupy the right channel specifically? Right now I give it instructions to move into channels and roam from position but it drifts to the left more than often leaving my right winger isolated.
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Yeah admittedly its hard not to use IWs with City because its possibly the closest you can get to the movement from their widemen IRL. Setting them to Wsu or even worse Wat makes them spam crosses and getting them blocked for corners which definitely doesn't happen in real life. But then again IW can stay narrow all the way while they're meant to hug the touchline first then cut in and drag defenders with them when they receive the ball. Perhaps the best example is Mahrez IRL. Do agree with the PIs for CMsu as well, someone like Pogba definitely has enough aggressive PIs to assert himself offensively. I imagine Gundogan would play the role perfectly or at least provide a more balanced, measured approach than Pogba.
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That looks really similar to what I'm using at the moment. I sometimes use DLPde in place of CMde and WBsu and FBat but I think either of those roles fit well into the tactic and don't affect the balance. I really like the CMsu role, prefer it to a B2B with hard coded roaming. I find that it not being told to hold position already gives it enough mobility for a 4231 or even 433. And you could tailor the PIs to the player playing it, for example for Pogba in your tactic then maybe take more risks or direct passing to use his passing and vision, while someone like Kante might have tackle harder instead. For what you mentioned about inverted wingers, I find IWsu with stay wider can borderline do what you want while making diagonal runs closer to the penalty area. I'm not sure whether to go for that or just a plain Wsu (which may cross excessively).
Edit: The City tactic wasn't loading for me just now thats why I only used Pogba in my example. BTW is that Zack Steffen playing right wing?
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@Johnny Ace have you made any changes to your tactic for these recent posts?
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I have been trying to recreate elements of Pep's positional play, where the wingers tend to stay high and wide, only cutting in in the final third. From experimenting, I find that players in AML/AMR tend to cut in too early. This tends to set off a chain reaction where the center of the pitch becomes clogged up and fullbacks overlap when I want them to stay further back. Would putting my wingers in the CM strata as WM and customizing their instructions help them to keep the width better and not go narrow regardless of their role?
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Hi guys have been obsessed recently in recreating the popular 3-2-5 build up shape used by many teams recently. I have came up with the setup below.
PFa
Ws AMs IWs
CMs DLPd
IWBd CDd CDd FBa
Balanced
Play out of defence, Shorter passing, Underlap left
Counter-press
Higher defensive line, Split press on front 4, Offside Trap
My idea is Ws, AMs, PFa, IWs, FBa will form the front 5 supported by CMs and DLPd behind them. IWBd helps build up by forming back 3 with CBs.
Not sure about my right flank setup. From testing it seems the RB doesn't get forward as much as I would want while the RW may not attack the half space and rather stay out wide. Thinking if I should change IW to IF so he stays narrower, allowing space for the RB to overlap. Have also thought about using IFs and WBs with overlap right to encourage some interplay.
Does the overall setup of roles and duties make sense? I am hoping to implement a sort of possession with intent style of football, playing with the ball but not necessarily recycling the ball all the time. I'll think about the TIs later as its more important to get a sensible setup first.
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Was watching the game just now as well, few observations of mine:
- LB stays high and wide to provide width while RB inverts to form back 3 during buildup with CBs
- RW maintaining width providing crosses and allowing RCM to underlap him at times
- LCM and DM hanging further back to recycle possession
- LW and LB rotating positions, with one always occupying left half space while the other wider
They do seem to form a 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 in possession depending on where the RB is (IWBs, IWBd, FBs????)
Still unsure how it might translate in game though
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Any ideas for a casual save that I could play a few matches every day or 2? I'm doing my work placement during the summer so might not be able to invest loads of time but still want to have something to play with in the limited free time. Was thinking of arsenal given their shambles of a season? Mainly watch premier league so I'm more familiar with those players but other teams are fine
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21 minutes ago, CARRERA said:
It would be a dribbling issue, if a) the player looses possession when trying to beat his man by running by him or b) your player is getting isolated without passing options due to his dribbling run.
The crossing was a potential result of the excessive dribbling, and I do encounter the 2 problems you have mentioned here. Players might also keep on dribbling and end up without anyone to pass to because they ignore options presented to them on the way.
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Hi all, currently playing with this tactic (4231):
GK: SKsu
RB: FBsu (sit narrower, hold position, cut inside with ball)
LB: WBsu (stay wider)
LCB: BPDde
RCB: CDde
RCM: CMsu (take more risks)
LCM: CMde
RW: IWat (stay wider)
AM: APat (roam from position, move into channels)
LW: IFsu (roam from position)
ST: DLFat (roam from position)
Balanced mentality
Play out of defence, Shorter passing, Work ball into box, Be more expressive, Focus play through middle
Distribute to CBs, Counter-press
Higher defensive line, Higher line of engagement, More urgent pressing, Prevent short GK distribution
Sorry if I'm being too specific into my tactic but not sure if it contributes to my problems. I am mostly seeing what I want from my tactic, its really resulted in some one touch pass and go football, the build up is orgasmic at times. The one problem I have is my attackers, wide forwards in particular tend to get tunnel vision and dribble excessively despite having multiple options to pass to. They sometimes end up ramming the ball at the defender for a corner rather than pass to an open man like the overlapping full back. I do know that IFsu, APat and IWat have the PI dribble more which could have resulted in this problem.
I'm thinking about adding the dribble less TI but would it mitigate the PI so my forwards don't have an increased tendency to dribble, or does it not affect the PI and instead tell all other players to dribble less ie not at all? So tl;dr does dribble less TI override dribble more PI?
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Feel like both these roles are so similar, how are they different? Wondering which role would be better to use behind a support duty forward IF/IW in a 4231?
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Been lurking on this thread for a while, do you guys find the IWB(s) too aggressive at times? From my experience they sometimes go really high and overlap the forwards in the final stages of play. I have been thinking about dropping it to defend duty but would that make the player devoid of any movement?
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Just wanted to ask has anyone on the forums tested their tactics out to see if they actually work before starting a save? I find that sometimes the preseason isn't enough for me to tweak my tactic so that it works how I want it to. I have resorted to sometimes loading in a tactic and holidaying but not sure if that is an accurate representation of the tactic's standard. Has it worked for you guys and what would you do otherwise?
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Title says it all really, currently assume that RPM might get less forward than BBM as they as playmakers are attracted to the ball so BBM has more movement in general.
Have been using a CM on support in most of my tactics with PIs rather than these 2 roles as I am not clear of their differences. How do these roles vary?
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I've read up on an articles about positional play and am trying to implement that in my tactics. I find that IWB can help me to establish superiority in the midfield and provide variety in my team (where the LB keeps width while RB tucks inside). I am trying this out with Chelsea atm, and looking at the supposed highlighted key attributes their RB options are capable to play as IWB. However, this usually isn't the be all end all. I have heard around the forums that only the really top players (eg. Kimmich) can play the IWB role effectively. So are there any other criteria apart from the highlighted attributes in-game that can show whether a player is suited to play IWB?
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I knoe the title is confusing so I'll explain. For example, my tactic might use a role that requires a lot of good attributes like complete forward or trequartista. When some of the players (usually backups) may not be best fit to play in these specialised roles, do I persist with the roles or change them to more generic ones, like deep lying forward or advanced playmaker?
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Apparently this year players have to be in the same squad to be put in a mentoring group which is a little problematic if I want to develop the personality of my youngsters early on. What does everyone do in these situations? Mentor the players at a later stage when they are first team ability? Promote them and make them available for reserves?
Also, youth players seem to require more well rounded training than that of first team, what specific differences would there be for a youth schedule and a first team schedule?
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3 hours ago, Ewan0404 said:
Once the update comes out I will be starting my long term tenerife save. Until then I want a short 3 season save so looking for suggestions.
Man same for me, the transfers going on have made me struggling to commit to a save without starting again after the update
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Just gonna chip in here, is using a overlapping full back and holding double pivot midfield the only effective way to do things in such a system?
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3 hours ago, right_winger said:
Works fine in my setup. Maybe they don't bang two goals each in every game, or they don't get 7.5 ratings constantly but I wouldn't say it doesn't work if it gets me average and good results individually and for the team. What I often tweak is adding Roaming to the PF/a if I see him struggle, especially vs 3 CB's.
Thanks for the advice, will definitely try this out. Do you add roaming to the PFat only or are there any other positions which would benefit from this PI?
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33 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
What exactly do you mean by "personnel reasons"?
Like if my team has predominantly left footed right wingers hence encouraging me to play them as IW but at the same time I want to have a level of mobility in midfield in CMsu.
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3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
The 3rd one could prove a bit problematic regarding the AMC's duty (not role) in relation to the CM on support behind him. Plus, I would avoid FB on support duty behind an IW or IF. So if you want to use FBsu, I would recommend standard winger in front of him.
I was also thinking of using a DLFsu and AMat combination in the third setup and in general as well, so that might be better. Does a WBde make more sense than FBsu in the third setup? If I were to play an IW due to personnel reasons, how could I make the formation still work?
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Pep's Barcelona (Very Fluid)
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by KCHDD
Trying to replicate this in my save at the moment but my first choice FB has the "gets forward whenever possible" trait. Would this hugely affect the tactic and leave my flank defensively vulnerable? I'm pretty sure Dest and Alves have that trait as well in FM does it still work for you? Or do you untrain the trait before using them as an IWB?