KCHDD
-
Posts
54 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Articles
FAQs
Online Manual
Support: Blocks
Support: Games
Bug Tracker
SIGames Manual (beta)
Profiles
Posts posted by KCHDD
-
-
I thought it was conventional wisdom to use 1 playmaker in a team at most but I see a lot of people using a playmaker and a TQ in the same side. Does this lead to the same problems as having AP and DLP in the same team, for example?
Also TQ is a role which doesnt get involved defensively, if I want to press would I be better off using a customised AM?
0 -
All the time I see people saying "there are no players holding in the midfield" or "an ideal combination should have one holder and one runner" something along the lines of that. So far, what I think is:
Holder: DLP(s/d), CM(d), BWM(d)
Runner: B2B(s), CAR(s), BWM(s), CM(a/s)
Not sure about the other roles like MEZ and AP though. How are these properly classified?
1 -
Having played a few more matches, I have spotted some slight problems in my setup. I feel that my players tend to take long shots more often than I like, kind of impatient I guess like taking one dribble and then shooting when they could pass to someone else making a run. Also, although I do have a high line of engagement, I feel that we aren't proactive enough in the transition phase, like when we lose the ball the opposition can play through our midfield more than I like.
I feel like for the long shots I might use work ball into box to alleviate this, I did see that it balances out unnecessary risks brought by be more expressive. Then, I am considering using counter-press but not sure if that leaves me more exposed. What do you guys think about this?
0 -
@Experienced Defender thanks for the advice. Not home atm but my instructions iirc are
Shorter passing, Play out of defence, Be more expressive
Higher defensive line, Higher line of engagement, Offside trap
Positive mentality
0 -
Hi guys just want a little feedback on my tactics. I am currently lining up like this:
DLFat
IWa AMsu IFat
DLPsu B2B
WBsu BPDde CDde FBsu
My thinking behind the midfield is that this pairing allows me to inject more dynamism into the middle, while a relatively conservative right back can fill the gap. However, this does bring up the issue of being defensively unstable. Does the creative benefits of using a B2B outweigh the defensive risks? Or would a 4231 strictly require a holding midfield?
0 -
Ok so another week has gone by and I've had tbe chance to play this tactic for a few months in game. A problem I have seen is the lack of penetration from central areas, leading us to be overly dependent on the FBatt to provide delivery into the box. Since I am looking to play in a possession style, shouldn't the center of the pitch be most involved in the play? Would more mobile roles like BBM change this?
0 -
Does anyone find the results of preseason kind of misleading? In a number of saves I have got great preseason results but that doesn't necessarily translate to the same success in actual games. Does the low tactical familiarity as well as low match sharpness make the preseason only about increasing fitness levels and not bout judging the quality of your team? Would it be possible to evaluate the success of tactics based on how the preseason goes?
0 -
20 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Counter-press can be used in any of these combinations as long as you are confident that your players are good enough to execute it properly. It can also be used on a situational basis (as opposed to being a regular instruction).
In your opinion, what attributes could determine if my players are good enough to counter-press? Was thinking positioning and decisions, anything else?
BTW, just found out I can up pressing intensity on opposition players using OIs. (eg. increased pressing intensity against CBs, FBs, WBs and CMs). Would a combination of those and a split press work?
0 -
Hi guys so another update, I've done more matches this week and results have been good. The DLF and IF get a fair share of goals now. I still have one question though regarding my out of possession TIs. I have found that using a standard LOE and split press allows the opposition defence a lot of time on the ball, and by the time my forwards press at the "standard line of engagement" opposition midfielders can already provide passing options for them to play out of the press. I have thought about changing my instructions to high LOE and high defensive line but given @Experienced Defender's advice on split press requiring compactness I am thinking about more urgent pressing overall (and possibly removing counter-press as a result). So either
1. Higher Defensive Line, Split Press, WITH counter-press
2. Higher LOE, Higher Defensive Line, More urgent pressing, NO counter-press
Higher LOE does reduce the space for my front 4 to operate though, so would that lead me back to the root of my problem, being the mobility of the forwards? ie. standing still in the box, waiting for a ridiculous long shot from the DLP/AM or excessive crosses from the FBs
0 -
Hi guys, so I made the modifications and tested my new tactic over the weekend and glad to say it is working well so far. This experience has allowed me to pay more attention to how the players are interacting instead of fully focusing on the results. Changing AM to support allows the ball to run through him more often and allows the ST to focus more on scoring. I have noticed something else though. Pushing both full backs up the pitch means that there is little penetration in the center of the pitch when the ball enters the final third. I was thinking as a tweak I could alternate between a covering full back or a covering CM in my tactic. So either
DLFat
IFat AMsu IWsu
DLPsu BBM
WBsu BPDde CDde FBsu
or
DLFat
IFat AMsu IWsu
DLPsu CMde
WBsu BPDde CDde FBat
Would using a supposed "one up one down" strategy with my fullbacks provide more variety in my team? Or would the central regions be crammed and cause the AM to have no space to operate?
0 -
@Experienced Defender one more question, will the DLFat and IFat get in the way of each other? IFsu has looked good for me recently
0 -
I'm not sure if this is going to help but I have made some slight changes to the setup.
DLFsu
IFsu AMat IWsu
CMde DLPsu
WBsu BPDde CDde FBsu
So basically what I have done is change the duty of the IF and FB from attack to support. What I am aiming for is for the IF to remain engaged defensively (have seen people saying IFat doesn't even make an effort to press) and changed my FB to support so he doesn't try launching shots himself and rather looks to support the forwards. The AM now is pretty much a hardworking trequartista, maybe something like Muller in this year's Bayern (I added some more PIs). Hopefully more support roles mean the team work more as a unit. What do you guys think?
0 -
Hi guys I have been trying to run a 4-2-3-1 and one of the main problems I am having is that the front 3 are static at times, especially playing against low blocks. My current setup is this:
DLFsu
IFat AMat IWsu
CMde DLPsu
WBsu BPDde CDde FBat
Mentality: Positive
Shorter Passing, Play out of Defence, Fairly Narrow
Counter-Press
Higher Defensive Line, Higher Line of Engagement, Use Offside Trap
I have put a split press on the front 4 and Roam from Position for DLF and AM.
I have tinkered with the striker role multiple times from AF to DLFsu but they all seem to be estranged from the buildup (maybe I haven't analysed the tactic thoroughly enough)
I do get wins but sometimes they just come from set piece goals, lots of times the DLP and FB shoot a lot instead of my forwards. Does my setup make sense and how can I change it to get my forwards more involved?
0 -
On 01/07/2020 at 05:17, Dong21 said:
Season 2019-2020: Part 1
After spending much longer than expected on an EFL save managing Bolton, I've finally got round to starting my annual United save. Generally I like to wheel and deal at whichever club I manage, but I'm going to try to be a bit more hesitant in the transfer window with this career as I'd like to give our many talented youth prospects the opportunity to develop. Here is how I've got on so far...
Backroom Enhancements
I believe a quality Head of Youth Development is essential, therefore I was delighted to secure my first choice for this position Bernhard Peters. Some managers don't see value in having a Director of Football but I sometimes like to utilise the 'suggest transfer targets' function to get fresh ideas - I hired ex-Barcelona and Milan Director Ariedo Braida. I cleared out most of the coaches, including Carrick who sadly just isn't good enough, and brought in a raft of replacements including Miguel D'Agostino and Danny McGrain. I was surprised to find that the standard of goalkeeping coach was poor across all levels, so I brought in six new goalkeeping coaches.
Tactical Intentions
I intend to play a 4-2-3-1 (wide) formation, with a secondary but similar 4-5-1 formation familiarised in case of the need to be more defensive. The desire to play Bruno Fernandes in a central attacking midfield position was a major influence when deciding on a tactic. Pogba would play deeper, hopefully building up a strong relationship with Bruno. Pogba had expressed an interest in leaving early into my tenure, however our private discussion went well and he has been settled thus far since.
Player Recruitment
My two primary transfer targets when commencing this save were Jadon Sancho and Jude Bellingham. Right wing is for me probably the biggest weakness in the squad and Sancho is a quality player with great potential who I wanted to secure before my rivals. Bellingham, on the other hand is a prestigious talent who I want the opportunity to develop. With a budget of £50m I decided to try something new and ask the board to handle signing for Sancho. To my delight they got the job done, securing him for £90m. I had a deal for Bellingham agreed, but that fell through when my budget was depleted to £0. I sold experienced players Mata (to Wolves) and Matic (to Leicester) for a combined £25.5m. This allowed me to renegotiate with Birmingham and complete a £22m deal.
I offered out Periera and Lingard as I would prefer to give Greenwood, Chong and Gomes opportunities, however the bids I received were below my valuations of the pair, so I elected to keep them, for now. I pulled off what I believe to be somewhat of a masterstroke though, recalling Marcos Rojo from his loan and then selling him to Guangzhou Evergrande for £16.5m. My final deal of the window was for Mexican wonderkid striker José Juan Macias for £16.5m from Chivas. The only downside was I had to pay him £80k per week wages in order to secure his work permit.
I tried to sign 17 year old Anderlecht winger Jeremy Doku during the transfer window, however his club wanted a deal totaling around £15m and we just didn't have the money so had to step away. After the window had closed Doku became unsettled and handed in a transfer request. I was frankly shocked to see him listed for £1.3m so I swooped up and signed him. He joins in January.
Youth Focus
One of my first order of business was to renew the contracts of Tahith Chong, Aidan Barlow and Angel Gomes (if only we could have done this in real life...). I asked the board for a feeder club and selected Derby from the options presented due to their excellent training facilities and the chance for my players to play alongside Rooney. I sent Garner and Laird there and I am really hoping they get a lot of game time. I intend to give some of the younger players opportunities in the Europa League, where we have drawn PSV, Getafe and AIK.
Just curious, I am actually trying to do something similar with my united save with regards to the tactics (building around Bruno like the team does irl). How do you usually line up in a 4231 wide, or have you switched to another formation? Pondering over what roles Bruno and Pogba have to play, still split over 4123 and 4231 currently. By the way Gomes was fire in my save, scored a first half hat trick in my first Europa League game vs Ludogorets, sad we didn't tie him down in real life.
0 -
By the way I still can't shake the idea of a 4231 JUST in a situation where I have no specialist defensive midfielders in my team but hopefully be able to achieve similar things to what I'm doing right now.
DLFsu
IFat AMsu IWsu
DLPsu CMde
WBsu BPDde CDde WBsu
SKsu
I have only really changed the midfield three as I want to get a similar result from this setup. I do want to keep DLP as a primary creator. I chose the generic CM role as I can modify it to be more defensive rather than shoehorn a BWM in. As for AM I might set "roam from position" to imitate a mezzala's movement. What do you guys think about this? The TIs should be the same I guess.
0 -
Ok so from the feedback from you guys the updated setup currently looks like this:
DLFsu
IFat IWsu
DLPsu MEZat
HB
WBsu BPDde CDde WBsu
SKsu
Positive Mentality
In Possession: WBIB, Shorter Passing, Play out of Defense, Low Crosses, Overlap Left
In Transition: Counter-press
Out of Possession: Higher Defensive Line, Offside Trap, Split Block (Front 3 + MEZ)
Does this look better than the initial one?
0 -
I did some further searching and am still split on whether to use DM(d) or HB in the DM position. From what I've found anchor man tends to be kind of static which I don't really want which leaves me with these 2. I think the issue is whether I want the DM to drop deep in the buildup to give me a numerical advantage. Would this be beneficial to my setup as both my full backs are attack-minded, or should I stick with the regular DM role? If so, what PIs should I give him?
0 -
10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Both fullbacks would remain WBs on support duty, and you can also consider the Overlap left team instruction (so as to encourage more dynamic interplay on that side by getting the fullback and wide forward closer together).
Would using the overlap instruction create excessive unnatural overlaps at times? I tried a tactic with overlaps before and the ball always went to the overlapping full back in every single play.
10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:I would not change the mezzala's duty, but would make his CM partner more defensive-minded. Depending on the player, you can choose among DLP on support (provided you don't use a DLP in DM) or carrilero or BWM on support. These 3 roles would make most sense in terms of tactical balance considering the rest of your setup. So basically this:
DLPsu/BWM/su/CAR MEZat
HB/A/DMde
I would prefer to use a DLP in the CM spot from the roles that you have suggested. Considering that, which DM role would best suit? I know HB acts as a third CB during the buildup which could suit my attacking full backs but not sure what the exact differences are between A and DM.
0 -
8 hours ago, Djuicer said:
EDIT: Do you really need to take away the freedom of aiming the crosses for the wing-players? As that could be getting the sucess ratio of crosses down? Also making you easier to predict?
My thinking was for the full backs to link up with the forwards at the near post while the inside forwards could assist each other with back post runs but I suppose freedom could allow for more unpredictability. The crossing hasn't been that good just like you said when I tested this out so will try this.
0 -
1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:
What I do not like:
- the use of 2 playmakers so close too each other (it can make sense in some kinds of tactic, but not in this one IMHO)
- defensively shaky central midfield - with an AP and a mezzala (especially on attack duty), your attack-minded fullbacks - because WB on support is an attack-minded role - will have insufficient defensive cover when they bomb forward, so you could be easily hit on the counter (especially via flanks, but potentially also through the middle, because neither CM role is defensive-minded enough).
I was thinking of 2 solutions to the playmaker problem:
1. Change DLP(s) to DLP(d) or DM(d)
2. Change AP(s) to BBM
Changing the mezzala from attack to support duty is fine with me but my thinking behind the attack duty was to have at least one attack duty not within the front three. I was thinking about using this attack duty as FB(a) but I didn't want such a cross heavy role. Would just 2 attack duty isolate the front 3 from the rest of the team?
1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:Overly/needlessly aggressive for my liking (I am specifically referring to the more urgent pressing and prevent short GKD TIs).
For this would I set the pressing to default and set up a split block? For the split block I'm thinking the front 3 plus the mezzala, is that a good idea? Also since too aggressive pressing might not be the best would I have to uncheck counter-press as well? That does pull my players out of shape sometimes.
0 -
Basically I'm not sure if this is going to work out, I did look at some long threads from guys like @Experienced Defender @Djuicer and have been trying to make a tactic I can use as a base for saves later in the future. I did have a short thread with a 4231 previously but I think 433 seems better suited for what I want to do.
So it basically goes like this:
GK -- SK(s)
RB -- WB(s) Stay wider, Cross aim near post
RCB -- CD(d)
LCB -- BPD(d)
LB -- WB(s) Stay wider, Cross aim near post
CDM -- DLP(s)
RCM -- MEZ(a)
LCM -- AP(s)
RW -- IW(s) Cross aim far post
LW -- IF(a) Cross aim far post
ST -- DLF(a)
Mentality: Positive
In Possession -- WBIB, Shorter Passing, Play out of Defence, Low Crosses, Fairly Narrow
In Transition -- Distribute to CBs and FBs, Counter, Counter-press
Out of Possession -- Higher DL, More Urgent Pressing, Prevent short GK Distribution, Offside Trap
Can anyone give me some feedback on whether the duties make sense? The main concerns I have are with the striker. I do want the striker to open up space for the wide forwards to get in the box and score which can be done with a DLF or F9 but I don't want to totally reduce him to a supporting role and still want to contribute with goals. I do already have the AP and MEZ behind for some of the creative load. I have seen some instances where AF can work in this formation. I have also read about how using too many in possession TIs could result in tactical overkill, are there any of those I should remove? Also, would it be better to remove counter-press and more urgent pressing and just set my forward players to press harder? Thanks.
0 -
@Experienced Defender I ave been trying to keep the technical aspects constant in all my schedules in order to develop those specific skills for my tactics, as well as shadow play. I do try my best to include both goalkeeping and physical sessions but I remove those in a 2 game week. I'm just considering dropping some of the technical sessions for the general (blue) training. Is that a good idea?
0 -
Hi so I'm relatively new to the game (judging by what I see from most people in the forums) and I've been thinking about my training. I initially just left the ass man to it but I felt like my training would be better if I specialised it further to train aspects of my tactical style. I am playing a possession based style so I am thinking about adding more specific modules like "play from the back", ball retention", "attacking patient" stuff like that in place of all the general sessions that my ass man does. However, I have seen different approaches being discussed, some which say that using general sessions would be much more beneficial to tactical familiarity, especially during the preseason. Some people even use the general sessions throughout the season. Can anyone give me some advice on how to set up my training, especially how I should balance general and specific training?
0 -
On 03/07/2020 at 00:53, Experienced Defender said:
Your tactic has some flaws, but a bigger problem IMHO is that this current Man Utd squad is not really suitable for a patient possession style you are obviously trying to achieve. So my first suggestion would be to either reconsider your desired style of play or the team you are managing (if you insist on that specific possession-heavy style).
@Experienced Defender Ok so I went back and did some research on how most people would go about designing a possession based system. Regarding Man Utd, I was just trying to run a test save, so I am just trying to find general system that I can use as a base in the future. Well, I have looked at a lot of threads you have replied to (the progressive possession) and some others about total football and seem to find the a preferred system in a 433 including:
DLFsu/F9
IFsu/IWsu Wat/IWat
MEZsu RPM/DLPsu
WBsu/FBat BPD CD IWBsu/WBsu
SKsu
I've found less information how to construct a 4231, presumably due to the widespread recognition of 433 as the better system but sometimes I might not have enough players or suitable players in teams to play the DM role in 433 so I would like a 4231 as an alternative to that. (I disable transfers in first season for realistic purposes)
I have seen you suggest some 4231 progressive possession tactics on others threads as well as other suggestions and they mainly go like this:
DLF
IF/IW AM/SS IW/W
DLP BBM/CAR
WBsu/FBat BPD CD FBat/WBsu
I haven't really decided on the PIs and TIs, just trying to get a grasp on the roles first. I do have one concern with the 4231. I just looked back at that Man Utd screenshot in the OP and saw I put Pogba and McT in midfield as DLPsu and BWMde. I know now that I shouldn't put BWM of any role into a 4231 but what happens with players like Pogba (Fabian Ruiz, FDJ) who are more of a playmaker than a runner? Most people put DLP on defend duty in a 4231 as the holding player but putting someone like Pogba on DLPde would probably be suicide as they are most likely not that reliable defensively while putting them on DLPsu might not allow them influence play further forward and leave the midfield fragile without a defend duty. (I do prefer for my full backs to attack the wing instead of invert into midfield) I was thinking of playing a forward thinking playmaker as a RPM here, do you have any suggestions about that? Also, did I get the roles for both 433 and 4231 right, or what changes would you make?
0
Tweaking tactics based on players, am I doing it right?
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by KCHDD
I am usually playing in this 4231 formation with Arsenal:
DLFat
IFat AMsu IWsu
DLPsu CMde
WBsu CDde CDde WBsu
SKsu
Instructions are limited as I don't want to overcomplicate things: (Usually positive mentality but will tweak to balanced in big games)
Play out of defence
Shorter Passing
Be more Expressive
Counter-press
Higher Defensive Line
Higher Line of Engagement
Use offside trap
So from previous posts on this forum I know that the system I am using rn is a decent setup of roles and duties and it does work nicely. However, it can be argued that the system is only suitable because I have the right players for the roles.
For example if I was using this tactic for Chelsea instead of Arsenal, I might not use a DLF up top as the greatest strength of Werner is not his passing ability, or to a lesser extent compared to Lacazette. Instead Werner might have to be used as a PFat to suit his strengths. Because of this, the roles of the 3 behind the striker will have to be changed as well, as a IFat does not work well with PFat. So I was thinking:
PFat
IFsu AMsu IWat/Wat
DLPsu CMde
WBsu CDde CDde WBsu
SKsu
By doing this, more space is created for the PFat to operate as the IFsu doesn't come that forward and the IWat or Wat stays wider. In my opinion, this is a better method than shoehorning a player into a role that does not play to his strengths.
Going back to my Arsenal system, if for example I wanted Partey to play a more mobile role in the midfield (he is playing as the CMde currently), maybe I could go for a setup like this:
DLFat
IFat AMsu IWsu/Wsu
DLPde CMsu
WBsu CDde CDde FBsu
SKsu
Here, the right winger can be converted into a Wsu to stay wide and allow the CMsu space to advance into the right half space occasionally. The full back role is dropped back to FBsu to allow for more defensive solidity. Of course traits may affect the movement of the CMsu so they may have to be removed to retain some solidity.
Now these are just my ideas and they could be flawed in many areas, just my thoughts about adapting a base tactic to the strengths of different teams you manage. What do you guys think?