Fox-7-

There are the three Pogbas, but I'm not sure they would get along in the same team

With two players in the CM strata and a pivot I'd eliminate the Counter TI, as It invites your BBM and MEZ to be even more aggressive in the counterattack together with the WBs and the forwards, leaving only the DLP and the three CBs to defend (and the WCBs will already be wider and higher on the pitch by default when you lose the ball). For the possession phase there seems to me to be a non-optimal distribution of roles, for example PF and MEZ will compete for the same channel, and IMO WCBs are better suited for possession-oriented styles that looks to create overloads in a prolonged possession phase, that seems not to be yuor purpose. CWBs also Is a very demanding role, I don't know if Mario Rui has the skills to do the job properly in this role (I'm basing this on how I see him IRL in Serie A, I'm not aware of his skills on FM). I would try this (from right to left): SKd CBd CBco CBd WBs DLPd/s WBa MEZa CMs F9s PF/AFa in this way you would have three players on attack in three different channels and at three different depths, with the added support of the WBs on the right wing, with the three CBs and DLP+CMs (with PI hold position) acting as the first defensive screen

Omg, this is a true hidden gem! Thanks mate

I'm not the perfect person to answer your question, as I've never tried a Poacher in my FM experience. I assume he needs behind him someone that does the job out of possession for him and feeds him with assists, so I guess I'd try with a P and an AMs behind him. But I don't know if a P is suitable for a non-aggressive mid/low block with standard pressing defensive approach, the risk is either to play with 10 men out of possession and not to be able to take advantage of his best skills due to the amount of pitch you have to cover to build an attack

L(D) maybe could be too demanding if he has low WR...seems to be a perfect candidate for a CB-st spot

This setup is more possession-oriented than suitable for getting the best out of a TF intended as the classic big human tower However, in order to make the IFa and CMa runs more effective you could use a TF on support duty (even better with the PPM "Plays with his back on goal") which can keep the opposing CBs busy and take them out of position and free up space behind of them. In this setup you'll need a TF with good technical skills, for example someone like Giroud

Wunderbar, I wasn't aware of this topic (*Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well meme*). Juventus fans here, Furia Ceca is one of my all-time favorite players, and I was totally in love with Rosicky's poetry in movement, but my footballing soul as a fighting full-back when I played made me admire Grygera an Ujfalusi's solidity and discipline and and the perfect physical-athletic combination of the Koller-Baros couple, the Human lighthouse and the Czech Maradona (Baros' equalizer against Netherlands with the chested ball by Koller was orgasmic to my eyes) I can't see the tactic screen, maybe it's too old and won't load it in my browser. I was thinking of something like this, haven't tested It yet, I don't know how close I came to your idea: GK FBs NCBd CBd WBa DMd (offset to the left) Ws RPMs (in the CMR slot) IWa TMs AFa Not sure about Nedved's role, he was basically a wide-inverted-box to box midfielder on attack duty with all the possibile PIs Balanced mentality, TIs as simple as possible: Slightly more direct passes, counter, press more often, mid block with higher DL

Given that the position of the players in the tactics screen is the one in the out of possession phase, you need to start from the last picture. I think it's difficult to replicate in ME, the only solution I can think of is this: #1 GK/SK #32 CWBa #2 WCBd #16 CBd #4 CBd #12 FBs (or WBs if no IF ahead of him) #10 DMs (or CMs) #7 DMs (or CMs) #9 AMs #45 IFs (or AMa if in the AMCL slot) #28 AFa #10 and #7 with hold position PI, as in every picture they are in the same place with all the remaining teammates moving around. They can be played in other holding roles as A or DLP but not knowing the player skills I gave them the simpliest role

If you want your LB to take the Place of #10 and #10 move in the AMC slot maybe you could try with an asymmetric disposition IFB CB CB IWBs DMd CMs CMa W W AF This should give your IWBs in the left more room to move into. Don't told your CM to move into channels so he stays central

Oh, I've never interpreted your Defense-First approach as a set of Park the Bus tactics either, and in fact I admire how you manage to make even very different sets of tactics and instructions work within the same save with the same players. In fact, my first intervention in this thread was to say that I was following the thread because often, despite loving coaching underdog teams, my problem with the Defense-First approach was that of being too passive in the tactical setup, resulting in closer to a Park the Bus than anything else, and therefore I wanted to find new ideas to refine this tactical style. But yes, perhaps the very definition of Defense-First approach can be misleading if taken literally, because the feeling I had seeing the latest evolutions of the tactic is that defensive effectiveness is more a product of a well-balanced offensive setup (therefore a sort of Defence-Secondary achievement, if I can allow myself to give my interpretation) rather than being the core on which the work is based which then serves to bring home victories without going gung-ho with the Gegenpressing meta. I'm almost 35 years old, so I also grew up watching the football of those years at the turn of the millennium, which I personally consider to be of a higher level than today's football, especially regarding the quantity of great players. In fact, returning to the focus of the thread, now that I'm in the break between one season and another, I'm reading and watching some videos since I want to implement another variant of 442 as a 3rd tactical slot, inspired by that of the Czech Republic team during Euro 2004, to see if I manager to buy a couple of players needed to recreate it properly But now I'll stop being pedantic , I hope to read even more updates and interesting insights from you .

@crusadertsar I apologize in advance for the question, which may seem polemical given that the topic has already been raised a couple of times in previous updates but I think it was asked in the wrong way with accusatory tones, but instead it is a genuine request, given that I appreciate this thread a lot and I have followed it from the beginning in every update. Can the last two tactics be purely defined as Defense-First approach? At first glance (and my impression may obviously be totally wrong, given that I haven't tried the tactic while you know exactly how it works on the pitch) it may seem instead that the balance of the game plan is based more on rest defense in the opponent's half for long periods. stretches of time rather than on the rest attack when the opponent is in possession, practically defending more by managing the ball than producing an effort without it. Compared to the OP the intensity has gone up (not to the maximum obviously, I'm obviously not talking about a meta tactic) with the lines, the pressing and the mentality and the positioning of the players on the pitch has gone from a bottom heavy to a top heavy formazione. Aside from goals conceded, could I ask you how the other defensive indicators are?

There's no shame mate, in fact at the beginning of the learning curve it is an almost mandatory step to reduce the waste of time compared to the trial and error approach (and less frustrating). I myself did this in my first steps into the FM world. Even now I regularly check here and on the web if there are interesting topics regarding aspects that I have always paid little attention to or which I have never dealt with, and I often discover and learn new things that improve my gaming experience even after 15+ years of FM

Both of your IF got competitors for the sapces they'd like to exploit (CMa for IFs and AFa for IFa), and as said by @jeru everybody are more prone to look for opportunities for themselves rather than creating them for other teammates. Furthermore you're playing on the front foot with lines and OoP TIs and are asking your players to dribble more towards the opponent's defence, but at the same time you ask them to pass in spaces that most likely don't exist as you squeeze your opponent into their final third. It's a bit demanding if you're not an elite team I'd add some variety in roles, for example Ruggeri as WBa bombing forward and Ederson as CMs holding position, letting IFs to come inside with some room to play in, Baldanzi as Mez-a and Barbosa as IWa with stay wider PI overloading the right side and opening the channel, and Parisi (left footed) could be a perfect IWBs if played on the right flank

Maybe it depends on your tactic, do you have selected a specific cross type in TIs? Your TF is a lone striker or has a partner? Or on the far side there's and attacking player like IF/W/IW that look to make himself going into (better?) scoring positions than your TF? I play a 4-4-1-1 with a TFs as a lone striker in central position with only and AM behind him on Attack duty, ML/R are on support duty, mixed cross in TIs, "aim cross at him" in PIs for wide players. He is the main goal scorer by far (25+, no other teammates hits double digit, nor his backup), going for the header on the far post from both sides (and furthermore he even scores some goals anticipating opponents on a low cross on the near post) However PIs are only tendencies, maybe your TF is well controlled by the opponents and there's a free teammate on the far post, in the end players looks for what they think is the better option given their skills

I think (maybe I'm wrong) it's hardcoded that with a TF teammates will look for him more, but in the PIs you can specifically tell your player to aim crosses at him (and in TIs to your GK)

Thanks for the reply @Los_Culés. Yeah I use some PIs: RIFB/FB,LFB cross more often from deep aiming the TF SV: take more risks, get further forward, move into channels (only in the standard version) AM: move into channels, take more risks, dribble more WM (you're right, I use a right-footed player): sit narrower, hold position, cut inside with ball. The idea with my WM Is to have him in a hybrid position between covering for the SVs and FBa pairing with the DM to make a bit lopsided 3-2 rest defence, and supporting the attack by overloading the left side, luring the opponente leaving AM and DW on the right in a more 1vs1 situation when the play is switched on the right flank. I think a left-footed player could also work, i believe he'll just have a more limited natural passing range only towards the right side of the pitch (maybe the trait "used the outside of the foot" could help in this?) Instead of morphing into a more possessional team going through the seasons, I'm trying to build a club DNA to the maximum extent of a Defence-First approach: I want to become an unpleasant and exhausting team to face in matches, a sort of a Simeone's Atletico and a Wimbledon's Crazy Gang mix I'm very selective in my player recruitment, above all in strenght, jumping reach, bravery, aggression, determination and workrate -Back 4 players (+DMs) around 190cm or above -TF: you can tell by looking at Hornby -Other players: >180 cm (the only actual exepction in my squad Is Lumeka, but in the very first season I have literally no money and I was in desperate need of a player like him for the AM/IW roles, and he was available for free with a small wage demand) -Bonus Track: bad behavioural traits are very welcomed, as the seasons goes I'll even look for good newgens with "Unsportive" personality To summarize, finding players like Rory McKenzie in my base squad at the beginning of the save (don't have a screenshot of him atm) is a true joy to my eyes and a good starting point from which to build

@crusadertsar I followed your topic at the beginning and continued to read silently, now after 3 in-game seasons I find myself making my small contribution. Being a good old Italian boy for whom a 1-0 hard win is almost porn , I too am following the Defense-First approach on FM24 this year, and from season to season the results have gotten better and better. I'm coaching Kilmarnock in the SPL, and with this philosophy we achieved a 4th place in the league in the first season, a 3rd in the second and now in the third year, also thanks to a bad run of Rangers, we managed to grab the 2nd place (and reaching the last 16 stage in Europa League in our first partecipation), thus having the possibility of trying to qualify for the Champions League 26/27. With the little money available, my recruiting focus was obviously on players in the most defensive roles (and to find an effective TF), and in fact we managed to reduce the number of goals conceded year after year, making a notable improvement, going from 42 in the 24/25 season to the latter's 28, and reducing the number of defeats from 9 to only 4, being the best team after Celtic in practically every statistic regarding the defensive phase. However, our balanced approach allows us to be in the top 4-5 places also in offensive statistics, resulting in an effective all-round team. This is my standard tactic, to which I make small adjustments here and there based on the opponents and to adapt during matches (I try to do micro management on every possible aspect of the tactics and off the pitch, and in fact I'm only in my third season with the only save I run since the game was released). On the other hand, weaker teams are starting to play against me in an increasingly conservative manner, and the lack of flair and technique in my squad at high levels has made itself to be felt: of the 4 defeats, 2 comes agsinst Livingstone, and we also drew some matches against teams that were inferior on paper like St. Johnstone, struggling to break down compact defenses (evidently the Defence-First approach also works for AI ). In fact, the next step will be to recruit players with a bit of flair and technique, now that I have an established base of defensive players on which I can count. Big fan of the DW-s role, I love the work he does on the wing and how as soon as we get the ball he bursts forward to beat his opponent. I often use adapted or re-trained full-backs in that position, and also in the WM position on the other flank I like to play an adapted CM/DM there I use a more defensive version against the two big teams Celtic and Rangers (and in European campaign as being one of the weakest team in the competition) For the first time I managed to remain undefeated against these two teams (apart from the 2-0 defeat in the last championship match which was totally irrelevant for the ranking, in which I gave space to some backup players). A question: against them I often managed to contain them with a draw, also managing to limit their xG production, in a couple of games I managed to come back from an initial disadvantage by modifying something to make the tactic a little more offensive, while for two times I have suffered a comeback when I actually have a two-goal lead (and in the 3-2 victory against Celtic I went 3-1 up and risked conceding the equalizer several times, 3-1 win vs Rangers comes with two late goals after 90th minute). How can I defend better when they start to go all-in (obviously also considering the disparity of forces on the field, which is still notable)? in these matches there was a sudden switch where they started attacking me throwing me everyone and everything without changing their position on the pitch (it's like "ok se are two goals down, let's start to play seriously" ), and without me being able to contain them in any way, nor by making tactical changes, nor in mentality, nor substitutions. My game-plan literally improved when in the second season I managed to buy Hornby to play him as a TF-s, most of the goals happen by triggering him with crosses but he also does a great job in involving his teammates in early phases of play, with a good contribution also in terms of assist

You're right, tactics doesn't matter. Only mentality, TIs, player role/duty, PIs should be involved in that...oh wait

@RDF Tactics Intersting defensive approach with narrow 4-2-2-2, i love It...I could take inspiration for my actually empty third tactic slot. Here are three examples of my defensive shape when the opponents are in possession (they played in a 4-3-3 DM), using the tactic posted in my previous post. As mentioned, the only OIs are to never press or mark GK and CBs. My two front players are focusing on closing the passing lines towards the middle and we manage to defend compactly with two well-defined banks of 4, you can see that I don't have the same problem as you with the player on the far side that remains too wide. In the first image we have just forced a pass back from their right wing towards the CB and the team has shifted organically on our left side, and the only thing I would expect to be better is having my #6 slightly narrower to prevent the pass to their #7, but in fact we were just coming back from a pressing situation after the ball has been correctly addressed to the flank as required. Potential issue in the second image, where my #9 goes for the pressing instead of prevent a pass to their #8 that could force a disruption in my defensive shape if my #10 choose to step up to close #8, but luckily their CB in possession passed to the other CB. There's however a tendency to be slightly wider than expected by the wide players, maybe in order to be ready to press if the ball was played on the flank As for the tackles, that was the focus of OP, my players performed very well with this setup, look at how many players has 100% of tackles won. Maybe less in numbers, but more well timed. Only Deas struggled a bit, but maybe because he is a CB deployed as FB in this game, a less familiar position could have negativelly impacted his performance. Additionally, the most tackles attempted are all by my wide players (Mayo RB, Deas LB, Elias RM, Cortinovis LM, subs Mogos RM, Scales LB and Watson LM), central players doesn't need to engage too much in battles for the ball

@Cloud9 DW IMO is still a very underrated and underused role in FM, especially in systems with two banks of 4, because defensive responsibilities are generally left to the fullback (at least on one flank). In my current system I would say that he is one of the key players, and in this role I am using a lot of retrained fullbacks who already have a good base of defensive skills, possibly refining the offensive attributes such as Crossing, Off the ball and Dribbling with the focus of individual training. On the other flank I use a WM on the wrong foot side to resemble a more solid IWs, and here too I often deploy in this position a retrained hardworking CM. This is my current primary setup, the screen is from a few days ago. @RDF Tactics Next time I'll play FM I'll try to provide 2D screens of my defensive shape during matches Additionally, to try to force the opponents to play away from the centre I often ask in the OI's to never mark nor press GK and CBs, in this way my two upfront concentrate themselves to prevent passes directed to DMs or CMs

I think some elements are missing to allow us to give you suggestions regarding your problem. -What mentality are you playing with? You already have a high pressing trigger, if you have Positive or Attacking set your defensive shape could easily be negatively affected by this -Are you using man-marking or role-marking PIs on your wide players? Or do you have OIs of marking or pressing on their wide players? I'm using a 4411 with a DMs pair instead of CMs (set as SVa/DLPs or SVs/DMs depending on the opponents I'm facing) with Standard mentality, mid block with higher DL and standard pressing using Trap Outside TI, and the last time I checked the team stats I was 7th for tackles won (in a 12 team championship) but 1st for tackles won ratio. Perhaps the fact of using CMs with a standard DL leaves too much space between the lines and many times when the opponent finds the player behind your CMs they are forced to run back and a tackle is less likely to happen, while with DMs they would find themselves to face opponents by being able to choose a better time to make the tackle with greater probability of success

Yeah, it's a 4-4-1-1 a little more modern than the classic kick & rush. In possession I try to get the 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 shape, even if WM on the left despite having hold position and sit narrower doesn't line up exactly with DM/IWB or DLP and he is still wider and more roaming than I wish it in order to free up VOL and WB/FB, but it's currently the best option I've found. Basically I'm trying to build over the years a tough and annoying team to beat, looking for aggression, bravery, strength, tackling, work rate, determination, jumping reach (as well as height) as main characteristics (dirty behavioral traits are welcomed) and play on these as main weapons, with a strong defense and a clinical attack.

Great thread! In this case Ederson plays at LWB, a quite direct pass despite the POOD TI. Does his role as a SKa affect this by having take more risks hardcoded? Did you try if changhing the GK role/duty affects the kind of passes he plays in the build-up from goal kicks?

Update: These are my two tactics that I currently use that deploy a TF The first is the one I use against most teams, that are at my level or lower, while the second is the one I use against tougher opponents. Small adjustments are made here and there based on the opponent and the moments of the match. With these tactics here are the performances of my three TFs in the squad (Hornby is obviously the starter, Diabatè and Coulibaly alternated as reserves)

Second season ended in Kilmarnock...the year didn't start very well as we lost in the Europa League qualificarions against Lech Poznan, and subsequently in the Conference League playoffs against Lask Linz, so we couldn't play any continental competition. On the other hand this allowed me to focus on the SPL, and to stabilize myself as the best side behind the Glasgow teams. We thus finished in third place in the standings, although again in the last 5 matches after the split we had slightly disappointing results which almost cost us the comeback from Aberdeen. For me the greatest achievement is to have the second best defense in a championship where many goals are scored by all teams , although I would like to reach the goal of keeping an average below 1 goal per game conceded In the national cups, Celtic gives us delusions, given that it eliminated us in the quarter-finals of the League Cup but most of all defeated us in the Scottish Cup final, after we managed to beat Rangers in the semi-final on penalties. With these results the finances have undergone a very good increase, now I believe I can start to do some really interesting things in building the team in view of the upcoming season