Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro

Your reasoning is coherent. It is certainly a non-trivial movement that requires off the ball, anticipation, decision, courage, workrate and teamwork...that's right. That's what I took for sure too. Dumfries is good in these attributes. I also tried to raise them a little with the editor... but it makes no difference. So yes, I think it's really an algorithm and engine problem. Indeed, when I use him as a DW I really see a big difference in the attack on the post during crosses.

Thank you very much, it's very kind of you to worry. I think I reported it as a bug with other topic 1-2 days ago. However, it is normal that as soon as fm24 is released there is more interest in correcting other errors, I easily understand it.

If you mean the second goal, that probably only happens because it's a counterattack and the game tells everyone to randomly throw themselves forward for a few seconds. But a sporadic, non-recurring situation that comes from reasoned construction. It could mean that the only way to get this thing on FM is to always play the 352 with a counterattack.

@Ivan787 Excellent explanation and useful images. I share 2 links of the highlights of 2 different matches and I advise those interested to see the clips. FOCUS ON DUMFRIES.

Look here, I did exactly the same as you. Carlos Augusto crosses and Dumfries sleeps. What I notice is this. A wing-back receives a cross inside the area ONLY IF he is already inside from first due to a very prolonged action. In short, it's a coincidence...not a systematic action! He will never sprint into the box to head. At most he walks...like here in screenshots.

@Rashid Your module is almost a copy of mine (except the wingbacks, because I use DW now). The team settings are also similar. Tempo is low, offensive mentality, expressiveness. The only difference is that I don't put underlap and in the defensive phase I don't keep the line so high, but medium. But this can't be the reason, it doesn't make any sense, it would be silly given that we're talking about the defensive NON-possession phase and not the offensive one. In any case, in all these years, I have tried any type of tactic or instruction multiple times and I have never seen a wingback run to the post to intercept a cross. The difference with the DW is clear in this movement. DWs go into the box during crosses even if I have positive mentality and maximum width. You can clearly see that it is a different algorithm. A wide player on the midfield line runs into the box, a player on the defensive midfield line walks into the box.

This point is off-topic here. But I'll try to give you an idea. Have you tried setting the tight marking of your fullbacks on the opposing wings? And also a high level of individual pressing? However, remember that it is quite normal for the 4312 to suffer on the sides.

Finally someone who understands exactly what I'm talking about and knows about the modern 352. In my opinion it's really a question of culture. In England, Italian tactics are not followed very carefully (not even the Serie A players, judging by their incorrect attributes) and perhaps stereotypes are adopted. The Premier certainly deserves all the respect and honors, because in the last 20 years they have managed things well compared to us, but the Italian technicians still produce important innovations on the modules today. Inzaghi is certainly one of the top. It is no coincidence that he made Guardiola tremble in the CL final and only because of Lautaro and Lukaku did he not win the cup. Guys, let's try to push developers to consider these analyzes of ours and improve this dynamic!

Exactly! In my opinion, the question of attacking the far post is fundamental. Incredible that after all these years on FM it hasn't been improved. Instead, the other dynamic you're talking about could perhaps be approached by giving the player the cuts inside trait or by activating the internal overlap.

Oh thanks! I thought that here was correct place.

I repeat, I always use a slow tempo or even very slow. I also often use work ball into the box. My external players are strong, I also tried to set very high values for them with the editor. But it doesn't change. The only way to systematically make them head on the far post during crosses is to move them to the midfield line.

I also tried with a very offensive mentality and with minimal tempo. Obviously with work ball into the box. And I used WB(att) and CWB(att) too. Nothing to do. The man walks towards the area instead of running in. In fact, almost always when the cross arrives inside the box there are only the 2 attackers or at most one CC in addition (if I set it to attack). An offensive 352 should aim to always have 3-4 players inside the box. One of the two side players should always be inside. "Underlap" has nothing to do with it as a movement because that's not the issue. And not even using IWB which is another role entirely. During the construction phase the man must stay very wide and not come into the field. He must throw himself into the area ONLY IF the man on the opposite side goes for the cross.

Obviously yes, I tried any player trait that imposes an offensive movement towards the box. But there's nothing to be done. The algorithm simply does not foresee that a player in the defensive midfield position can throw himself into the box. Whatever role he has. To date, the only way to have effective offensive movements and an attack on the opposite post from the cross is to use W or DW or WM. It is clear that at this point the problem shifts to the defense, because there is no longer coverage on the backside. In short, it's like a short blanket. Either stay out with your shoulders or stay out with your feet. I hope this will be fixed by the developers. In reality the 352 has had these movements for at least 5 years....but here it seems that we are only thinking of the 433 or 4231 or english soccer.

I opened a topic for developers here

What a shame, this topic doesn't seem to be of much interest. Yet I think it's a huge lack in FM. Seeing my WB or CWB (set to offensive) snooze on the sidelines on crosses coming from the far side instead of diving into the box is depressing. I and other lovers of the modern 352 will still be forced to use W or WM to be present in the opposite area, enduring huge holes in our defensive flanks.

I agree with you, there are many obviously incorrect attributes; in some leagues more than others. Specifically at Inter, unfortunately I am forced to make many changes to the players, both negative and positive! So I understand you. But I imagine it is very difficult for the Football Manager company to hire so many highly trained scouts for all nations. It is clear that the Premier League is better covered. The only advice I can give you is to buy the Editor and change some values manually. I do this with the help of many real player statistics tools.

Hi guys! First of all I congratulate the developers for the game (I have been a very loyal user for years). I hope they read this post. My mention concerns the functioning of the 352 module in game which, unfortunately, is a bit outdated; perhaps because it is a module that in England is still used and considered purely defensive (532), but for at least 5 years it has been adopted in a more modern and fluid way by various coaches. The most obvious example is Inter, but it is not the only one. Wingbacks are not just simple laterals who push on the wing to make crosses, but they are much, much more! They drop to 5 in the non-possession phase, dthey move up the sideline during construction and they attack the lateral depth or the far post in the last third (sometimes even beyond the strikers!). The offensive closure on the far post on the cross (to head or shoot first) for a wingback is a classic and recurring action of the 352. Sometimes he is even in wide-center-back who crosses for the opposite wingback! Look Bastoni to Dumfries.... In short, today, in 352 with a positive or offensive mentality, wingbacks are to all intents and purposes wingers in the attack phase. It is no coincidence that structured players such as Gosens, Dumfries, Udogie, Doig and others are favored to have a favorable physical mismatch in aerial duels in the opponent's area. However, this insertion into the area on Football Manager is almost impossible to achieve, even with offensive mentalities or preferred moves such as "go into opponent box or go forward". The only solution now is to change the role to W-DW-WM... but obviously they DO NOT go back to a 5-man defense when not in possession and this unbalances the module. This lack means that the 352 is a module that can be used like 10 years ago, in a rather boring and not very modern way because it brings too few players into the opponent's area. The strong point of 352 today however is dominance on the pitch and presence of at least 3 or 4 players in the area to receive crosses. (usually 2 strikers, 1 opposite wingback and 1 midfielder if he has centimeters). Obviously, if it is played with a positive and non-defensive mentality. This makes 352 perhaps one of the most elastic, complex and customizable modules of the moment...although it requires quite specific players. If it's not very clear how important this feature is, I recommend watching Inter Roma 1-0 in 29/10/2023. There you will see a modern 352 (Inter) vs a classic 352 (Roma). There is a shocking difference! Focus on Dumfries all match and you'll see what I mean. And while you're at it, look at Pavard who sometimes ends up in the opponent's area even if he's a wide-centre-back! But I don't want to put too many irons on the fire.... For any doubt or clarification, I am completely available, even with data or maps. I link you other 2 highlights of real matchs. Always against Roma. FOCUS ON DUMFRIES (WB-at). I hope I've given you some good inspiration guys! Thank you wholeheartedly for your attention, long live Football Manager. Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro (football analyst and commentator)

Here instead we see the left WCB(att) who crosses for the right WM who heads the bank for Davies, left wide-mid. This is the magic of real 352 guys <3 2023-02-15-20-03-15_wYKFh2nW.mp4

Here is an example of an action ^^ Vagnoman crossed to Borna Sosa. Wide to wide on far post. THIS IS 352. 4-6010595688943980047_97buDCWW.mp4

Your idea is very apt in my opinion. This is likely to be the case! In Italy, all teams that play the 352 or its variants have wingers attacking the far post or closing the action. Not only Inter, but also Atalanta, Udinese, Rome, Verona... If you don't play the 352 like this, I obviously believe it's defensive and obsolete! Quoting Conte, you see the difference precisely with Perisic: look at his score this year (0 goals in 523) and look at last year with Inzaghi (10 goals in 352). I think it can be a great suggestion for developers. Thanks for giving me the correct link!

Yes, it's a specific wingback action. But this is the heart of 352, the real strength of him! His wingers are full-backs in defense and very wide wings in attack, it is the basis of the modern 352. Players like Perisic, Dumfries, Darmian, Dimarco, Gosens (even at Atalanta) all made this move several times a game. All of them cross from the byline, but also go to finish at the far post both with their heads and with their feet. Not being able to do it on FM is a big regret. I tried in every way, both with individual tactics and with skills, but nothing. The closest thing is to set them as wingers. But obviously you pay something in defense.

Unfortunately not. As I explained in the first message, the wing back NEVER GOES to close the action at the far post on the cross of the opposite wing back or of the opposite wide-centre back.

It means that a winger crosses at the far post for the other winger. From fifth left to fifth right midfield. It is a classic wording of 352.

Hello everybody, I'm new to the forum. I'm Italian (forgive some grammar mistakes), fan and YouTuber of Inter. I've been playing FM for many years and I master the mechanics enough, I always handle ALL aspects like a 360° coach-ds. The 352 has always been my favorite module, because it can be interpreted in various ways, from the most defensive to the most proactive. Just think of the difference between Conte and Inzaghi or Mazzarri. However, there is a big big big problem in its application in FM that is not discussed enough and that should reach the developers: the side bands in the 2 phases of the game. Those who know the modern 352 perfectly, know very well that in the defensive phase the 2 fifths lower themselves like wing backs, but in the offensive phase they go on the byline if they have the ball or they close the action at the far post by inserting themselves behind the opponent full-back. As if they were real offensive wings! The action from "fifth to fifth"(wb to other wb) is a must of the 352. Even today we have come to see the wide central defender throw themselves into the area or make the cross for the wb. Ex: Alessandro Bastoni for Dumfries. All this on FM is not possible. If you set up the fifth as wing-back they will make crosses, but they will never throw themselves into the opponent's area to finish with heading... not even with a positive or offensive mentality. While they will do it perfectly if we set them up as wingers, even if only as support, but in this way they won't go back in line with the defenders in the defensive phase...but they will remain in midfield, exposing us to the attacks of the opposing outside forwards. What do you think? Anyone want to have a say on this issue? How can we raise the issue to the developers? In the meantime, I leave you a perfect simulation of how Inter play in real life to thank you for your attention