El Payaso

This is well-written. I would have nothing against having a more streamlined version of the game for those who think they need it but I'd much rather see more effort put on the full fat version of the game and making some if the big features of it more comprehensive and challenging. For example training is something that should be a huge part of managing a football team but currently you can practically leave it as it is and still see no major set-backs in performances and player development. In my opinion all these bigger areas of the game should be so that you can both be successful at them but also fail miserably. That, in my opinion, should be the main focus for SI.

The reason for the first part is probably the low level of difficulty which doesn't force us to pay attention to detail and utilizing different features of the game. I don't follow streamers anymore nowadays and rarely did before but at least in the past practically none of them were actually good as managers even though they were always successful in the game. The second is something I disagree on. I don't have any spare time in my life and I have periods where I might not play FM at all for weeks. And I rarely get past season two in my saves but I would still say that instead of chopping things of and streamlining, the game would rather need more challenge and time-consuming features on many of the key areas like setting up tactics, training, scouting and team building. Even with a limited time I have and the attention that I pay to my gameplay, I could still easily have even multiple long-term save games on FM each year but sadly I don't believe that the game is that well suitable for that. And the way to fix this issue can be found from the two previous chapters of this message.

Could you still tell me what you consider as fluff? And I do agree with you on the ME things. I had a six-year hiatus from the game and was quite annoyed to see that some repetitive scenarios that practically never should happen in a game of football still were there from six years back. To see a ME that doesn't remind you of ME from years and years ago but gives you a feeling of a new game is high on my priorities too. But I would still claim that the match days are just part of the gameplay and shouldn't even be the biggest part. This means that the general gameplay should be both interesting and complex enough. I don't agree that areas like transfers, scouting, training or tactics are at a good state as they currently are.

What do you mean by this? In my opinion match days should only be one part of the game and definitely not the biggest. Other areas also need to have plenty of interesting things to do and I would definitely hope that for example creating a style of play and setting up training would have more features and that they would consume more of our time. Many things have been simplified too much on FM.

How so?

Luckily I don't see anything worrying so far in terms of features being removed. The last time I did international management was in FM 2015 where I managed Spain for two matches during my Real Oviedo save. As managing matches is probably the least likeable part of the game for me, international management really give anything extra to me as tactical tweaking is not a thing anymore on FM. Still eagerly waiting for the big announcement at the end of the month, as well as the new version of the game. Ps. Fix set pieces and add a bit better balance on how different style of plays work and you have my vote.

Hmm, not sure if a handball counts as a foul. I think the op was talking about keepers making fouls on the opposition players which is quite common source of penalties in real life.

I think these are the main parts of the latest announcement. So basically nothing yet to be excited about as the main announcement will come at the end of the month. If the later release time means that we have a fully working and polished version in our hands, then this is a good thing. I don't really know what the FMFC is but I'm hoping that this bunch of people consists of FM players who pay attention to detail and different features of the game instead of casual players who only care about winning.

It varies a lot between seasons and even saves. Don't remember the exact number but in less than a full season, I conceded between 20-25 goals from throw-ins with Torino. And with the trend I had, this number would have been gone above 30 if I had finished the season. This combined with almost every single highlight for the opposition teams starting from a set piece of some kind took the joy away from me completely. This on comprehensive highlights. The same happened also with Real Betis. Season one was okayish in terms of these but in season two things changed.

Yep and if you start looking in general what are the most successful style of plays, excluding the asymmetric meta approaches, high pressing and attacking systems are very well-represented here. I have zero doubt that I would have gotten better results on my saves with more aggressive approach. For example with my Chelsea save where I used mid-block, going to a positive or even attacking mentality away against Manchester City or Liverpool gave you better outcome than going with cautious or defensive. In real life this would have been a suicide approach against those two but in the game that salvaged us points against both of them. Come to think about it, this mentality change could well have changed my pressing intensity to high also...

You're almost tempting me to actually try it out. So far I have been too afraid to even activate the high press instruction and this has been down to what I have seen in the careers update and general feedback areas. Saying that high press is a god mode-like instructions is probably exaggerating, yes but anyway what I have seen from other users, I simply haven't even wanted to try it out. But I would still stand behind my view that high pressing systems are too effective on FM and can (and probably will) lead into unrealistic results for human players, even when not trying to play with a meta system. Even though I haven't tried this myself, I have seen enough evidence to back this view. And I have no problem at all if you don't agree with me on this. As far as I remember, you didn't see set pieces and especially throw-ins being an issue either.

It is a problem because applying a simple team instruction like "press high" leads to a scenario where your team suddenly becomes too successful. This on the other hand has nothing to do with meta approaches which are a totally different story as pressing high is a valid style of play as much as anything else. FM is not the type of game where you should have to limit yourself using valid tactical approaches just because the AI cannot deal with them. Even the developers of SI themselves had promised before the 24 version that the time of plug-and-play gegenpress tactics would be over. But that wasn't delivered. Sure, I can and will be playing with a mid or low block also in FM 2025 but the game should never be like so that if I happen to apply high press at some point, when chasing a goal for example, that I would be applying some kind of god mode for my team.

It's always going to be a lot about meta things when you talk about success on Football Manager. This is also why I have zero interest in these kind of events or following streamers or YouTubers as these simply give a really bad image of the game. Seeing things like this also often eat out lot of the motivation for me to play the game. Luckily that is usually temporary as I know that the game can be approached in a different way which also give you a totally different kind of gaming experience.

What is the point of this? The problem would be a human manager beating Liverpool with Manchester United by playing counter-press which is a likely thing to happen even in season one where Liverpool are far superior of the two teams. Counter-press is a valid approach with a strong team and with suitable players to play it out successfully.

Really interesting transfer window for you. Plenty of names that I'm not familiar with and it is nice to see you also bringing in clear and more experienced rotation/backup options instead of concentrating on wonder kids. Like I said in the beginning, it is hard to make this kind of saves with big clubs interesting to read but your approach and excellent writing is really doing it. These kind of career updates really keep the fire going for me while waiting for FM 2025.

I'm honestly every time amused when I see someone using the faces generated by the game. They weren't up to the standards when first introduced and even less now almost 20 years later. Ticking off the game-generated faces is always the first thing I do when installing a new version of the game. It's good that these can nowadays be replaced in 5 minutes.

I have been for ages wondering why there are so many instructions, such as 'get further forward', 'take more risks' and 'move into channels' when in possession and attacking and then you cannot basically give any instructions for the players on how to defend, like 'drop deeper', 'sit narrower' etc.

Partially yes, but for me clearly over-achieving and winning trophies with mid-table level teams is not something that shouldn't be part of a football management simulation. That won't be a career anymore as it has nothing to do with realism. If you for example pick something like Manchester United or Tottenham as your team, it should never be that you win the Premier League with the team in season one. A top-four finish should be a really good finish and help you both keep your job and give you something to build on. That is also what you call a career. Being able to win the league with teams like these in season one or two is something where I don't see any sense at all. And it also doesn't have anything to do with playing a career. Yeah, someone or even a majority of people playing FM might enjoy but it doesn't have much to do with the general idea of the game itself.

In my opinion the biggest problem with the so-called OP tactics is the fact that the current state ie the game prevents you to use some simple and valid tactical instructions like high press if you want to keep things realistic. I haven't even tried it but I know that this simple switch would have made all the teams that I have managed perform significantly better and that is not what I want with my gameplay. Obviously I want to reach the goals like getting a top-half finish with a club predicted to finish 9th but I don't see any point in winning titles with a team like that as that is not a career anymore. I have full confidence that FM 2025 will be a better game once again and I hope that a big amount of focus has been put on balancing things and how different tactical approaches work. Attacking style with high press should have its advantages but also the weaknesses like players getting jaded and injured as well as big teams making dog meat out of you with quick breaks. And then on the other hand a low-block and standing off should in general be defensively more solid than some overly aggressive approaches like this.

I think we have very similar views about many things on FM. In general I would stay that the game should be more about "how to make of this feature" instead of purposely chopping of some of features completely from your gameplay to not be unrealistically successful. I think this is also one of the main reasons why some of the features are under-used in the game: because you don't need to master them or even use them to be successful. I for example would love to put more effort on the training features, data hub etc, but feel that if I do, I will be even more successful in the game and that is what I don't want. When it comes to tactical approaches, I remember back in the day on FM 2007 that switching to a 4-2-4 in the end was a common practice when chasing a goal. The difference to nowadays is that you had at least equally big chance of conceding as scoring. Nowadays going to a top-heavy formation and ultra aggressive approach feels more like typing IDDQD on Doom as there is at least way bigger chance of benefit than lose. This is why I feel that I am forced to just change the mentality even when scoring a goal would be vital. I don't know if I'm the only FM player in the community but I haven't played with a high blocking and pressing system for a single minute during FM 2024 because I don't want to utilize that kind of "cheat code".

Exactly. I haven't been for example even try how that style of play works as I know that it will make the team over-perform.

My point about the laziness was directed to the difficulty level. I have many times said that the bar should be raised but this is almost always then played down because "people would start complaining as they can't win anymore". And a response to this "learn how to play the game then" is not acceptable. In my opinion FM can never really take steps forward as long as the general difficulty level is as low as it currently is and has always been. The game would take big leaps to right direction if the difficulty was higher.

That's the problem: it never has been. Even after SI have given us years and years to learn how to play the game and use the features. As humans are generally lazy, not many of them are going to put that effort if not forced to do so. I have always backed my views with a simple point: it is much easier to try and learn to do something instead of trying to forget and purposefully sabotage your own gameplay with limitations. In my opinion FM is not supposed be a game where you have to limit your own gameplay with artificial rules to create a somewhat realistic simulation.

I understand. That is also why I don't follow for example FM YouTubers (except for Deep-lying Playmaker) or many career updates as these in general give a really bad image of the game. I was fairly satisfied with my own gameplay through FM 2024. Even though two seasons per save was the maximum I played, I got 7th with Torino in season one (a slight over-achievement), about the same with Real Betis and then an over-achievement with Chelsea after taking control mid-season and having the highest amount of points since then. I would still play the game but the general effect of set pieces ruined the enjoyment for me. Conceding +20 goals per season from throw-ins is something that is impossible to enjoy as that has nothing to do with logical outcomes. What was also a bummer is the fact that I haven't been able to even try out a high pressing system as I have the information that if I will, my gameplay will be ruined as instead of realistic results, I will be most probably over-achieving heavily in the game with one or two simple team instructions. I know that many people would enjoy that but I don't and things like this simply shouldn't be in the game. In real life every style of play has their own strengths and weaknesses while on FM you simply don't get punished for over-attacking even when you are the smaller side attacking against a big side. The sad story seems to be that many people turn into these totally senseless tactical approaches because they cannot stand to take a defeat. With a sensible approach you can easily have realistic results and slowly build towards something better but a majority of FM players don't seem to want to play the game that way. I personally don't understand why but I won't go into that discussion again. And this is also probably why the game works in the way it does at the moment: to satisfy the masses. I have seen screenshots from the buildup to FM 2024 where it was clearly said that the time of plug-and-play gegenpress tactics is going to be over but we have all seen that this is not the case. And this issue can only be fixed if SI will take a risk and start implementing some balance and common sense to the gameplay. In a bigger picture: putting human players and the AI to the same line and by that make it possible to human players actually to fail at the game.

Well, for how many years has for example knapp made his meta tactics available for the public? And for how many years have people noticed that a simple high press combined with counter-press turns into something that performs at least a bit too well? And I bet the developers have way more information about these than for example I do. My point of view was simply to encourage people to change their thinking from having to win into a more realistic approach where a team predicted to finish 9th might actually finish 9th or 10th. This is called realism and a career and can be quite easily replicated with logical tactical choices.