Tobcoach

I said it before: the information you need is available. UEFA has posted the regulation of the 3 club tournaments online. It's a matter of reading it and you know how the competition will evolve. Champions League: Regulations of the UEFA Champions League • Reader • UEFA Documents Europa League: Regulations of the UEFA Europa League • Reader • UEFA Documents Conference League: Regulations of the UEFA Conference League • Reader • UEFA Documents Only thing that can (and probably will) change, is the number of teams in the qualifying rounds. But that rebalancing also is explained in the documents, or take a look at the website of Bert Kassies, who has very reliable information from within UEFA: Seeding in the Champions League 2024/2025 (kassiesa.net) So there are no excuses really to wait for the draw to happen. If you wait that long, you won't be able to implement it in FM25 alltogether.

The information in real life is available aplenty. Just look at https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0283-1874e7570089-f2d5555be979-1000/20230707_circular_2023_36_en.zip

Don't get your hopes up too high regarding teams being placed in the right divisions. When I tried to make the Dutch regional system, I thought I had a bulletproof system, with regional boundaries per division, with every team their preferred regional division on each tier was set. And in the game it still happened that teams from the north part of the country ended up in a division for the southern teams. I have to admit, the last time I tried something like that was back in 2017, so maybe things have improved the past years. But just saying: don't be too disappointed if - after hours and hours of editor work - the game still has a mind of its own.

I believe it's not that complicated (but I'm a data-nerd so it's a bit easier to comprehend for me :-) ). For the Champions League, you know how many teams are directly qualified: 29. So you need: League path (max. 11 teams): Q4: 4 teams, no-one directly qualified), Q3: 8 teams (max 5 directly qualified, 3 ohers from Q2), Q2: 6 teams. When one of the teams are directly qualified based on coefficient points, the path will be rebalanced, but no team will get a bye to Q4. So that will mean 6 teams directly qualified for Q3 and 4 teams competing in Q2. Champions path: It's a given that Q2 will consist of 24 teams, Q3 of 12 teams (winners of Q2) and Q4 of 10 teams (6 winners of Q3 and 4 directly qualified). So, based on that, you can rebalance this path if one or two teams are directly qualified for the league phase based on their coefficients. Europa league is the same. You know how many teams are directly qualified (13, titleholder Conference League and 12 other teams), and you know how many teams will qualify through the CL qualification system: 11 (champions path: 5 losers of Q4 and league path: 2 losers of Q4 and 4 losers of Q3). So there are 12 spots remaining, which tells you that Q4 will always have to contain 24 teams. And you know where those 24 teams come from: 5 directly qualified, 6 losers from the Champions League Q3, 6 winners of the champions path Q3 (the 12 losers of Champions League Q2) and 7 teams from the league path of the Europa League Q3. So you have 14 teams in Q3, and there it's get a little bit complicated. You have 3 teams directly qualified, and depending of how many teams enter via the Q2 league path of the Champions League (2 or 3), you will have 8 or 9 qualifiers of Q2. With a maximum amount of 25 teams entering in Q1 or Q2, you can rebalance Q1 and Q2 accordingly When the titleholders-spot in the league phase isn't being used, that spot will be taken by the team that has the highest club coefficient. Depending on where that team would enter the qualifying phase, a further rabalancing is needed. Conference League: no teams are directly qualified for the league phase, but you know how many teams enter via the Europa League (12 losers of Q4) and the Champions path of the Conference League (5 winners of Q4). So there are 19 spots left, meaning that Q4 always have to contain 38 teams. With 7 teams coming from Q3 ot the Europa League, and 5 teams directly qualified for Q4, you know that there will be 26 teams will come from Q3. So Q3 always contains 52 teams with no teams directly qualified. Depening on the number of teams that will come from Q2 of the Europa League, you will have to rebalance Q2 accordingly, with in mind that in Q2 there will also be teams that qualify through Q1 of the Europa League, not being sure how many that will be. And finally, Q1 of the Conference League will have to be rebalanced also. World Cup qualifying in the UEFA-section IRL involves a group stage with 12 groups of 4 or 5 teams from which the group winners qualify for the World Cup. Seeding for the draw of the goups stage is based on the FIFA-ranking at the time of the qualifying group stage draw.. The game divides the competing countries into 10 groups of 5 or 6. Secondly, IRL the remaining 4 spots (16 for UEFA in total) are being decided through a play-off system which involves the 12 numbers 2 of the groups and the 4 highest ranked group winners in the previous UEFA Nations League (who are not already 1st or 2nd in the qualifying group). The 16 competing countries are devided into 8 seeded and 8 unseeded (based on their FIFA-ranking) and drawn into 4 play-off paths. The unseeded teams play the single leg semi-final at home and the final venue (single leg) is being decided via a draw. In the game, the 10 teams that finished 2nd are being ranked, based on their group results (excuding results against a possible 6th placed team) and the 6 best placed teams qualify for the World Cup. The EURO qualifying seems to go a bit better in the game. In real life, the competing nations are being drawn into 10 groups of 5 or 6 teams, seeding based on the final position of the previous Nations League. The winners and 2nd placed of each group qualify for the EURO's. The remaining spots (max. 3, but it depends on the number of countries that are seen as organizing countries) are decided by selecting 12 teams based entirely on their performance in the previous Nations League. These teams are divided into three paths (A, B and C), each containing four teams. The group winners of Nations Leagues A, B, and C automatically qualify for the play-off path of their league, unless they qualify for the final tournament via the qualifying group stage. If a group winner already qualifies through the qualifying group stage, they are replaced by the next best-ranked team in the same league. However, if there are not enough non-qualified teams in the same league, then the spot firstly goes to the best-ranked group winner of League D, unless that team already is qualified for the final tournament. The remaining slots are then allocated to next best teams in the Nations League overall ranking. However, group winners of Leagues B and C can not face teams from a higher league. If there are more than 4 teams selected from Nations League B or C, a draw will decide which non group winner will play in a higher Nations League which has not already have 4 teams. In each path, the teams are ranked using their final position in the previous Nations League. The 4th ranked team plays the singe-legged semi final at home against the 1st ranked team, and the 3rd ranked plays against the 2nd ranked. The venues for the final (single leg) are being determind via a draw. In the game, the nations do get drawn into 10 groups and the 1st and 2nd of each group qualify. So far, so good. I haven't the slightest idea why the game shows the total ramking based on the qualifying results. Maybe it's an attemps to show the total ranking, based on the Nations league? Anyway, it's getting a bit unclear regarding the play-offs. It looks like the teams are indeed selected based on the Nations League, but there are still some errors. In the 2036 playoffs, Bulgaria appears, whil based on the Nations League ranking, North Macedonia should have been selected. The other 11 teams are indeed the teams you would expect, based on the Nations League. The play-off path however is a mess. In my example, in 2036, the highest placed team from Nations League A, Iceland, should have played Armenia (best group winner of Nations League D). Instead they play Serbia, a group winner of Nations League B. That's not possible in real life because as stated, group winners cannot play a team from a higher league. I realize those are very complicated rules amd maybe not posible to execute in the game. But at least the FIFA qualifying could do with an overhaul. If the UEFA qualifying stays at it is, it would be disappointing but understandable.

I understand. Will make a bug report, and copy/paste my opening post there, and will wait for further instructions as to the proof SI wants (savefile and/or screenshots).

As much as I love fiddling with the pregame editor, doing some magic on especially the European Cups would mean a complete build-up from scratch with no guarantee that will work because of some hardcoded elements.

Unfortunately, it isn't. I have a game in which I am in 2037 now, and every season I monitored how the qualifying process was handled by the game. And not one year was done correctly. In the current season, France obtained an extra CL-ticket because they ended 2nd in the year-list. France has 3 direct CL-places and one league-phase qualifying place. You would think that the team that ended 4th (thus playing in league-phase qualifying) would get that extra CL-spot and all teams below would be upgraded (5th place CL-qualifying instead of Europa League league phase etc.). The 4th placed team did get the direct CL-spot, but their place in qualifying was left empty, and as a result, France didn't get an extra team in Europe. Result of that open spot was that the Portugese team in the league phase qualifying was upgraded from Q3 to the play-offs. That never happens in real life. The extra team rule apparently only applies to the countries in the top 4, with 4 direct spots to the league phase of the CL. I could make a bug report, but if one of the moderators could move this topic to the appropiate section that would be greatly appreciated. As for the proof, I can download my savefile, of post some screenshots.

I've noticed in all UEFA club competitions that FM does not follow the qualifying rules in real life, and it's quite annoying for me and even a bit of a gamebreaker. For instance: if the winner of the Champions League of last season qualifies for the league phase of the next CL via their domestic league, in real life the spot left open by the CLTH goes to the club which has the highest coefficient in the champions path. Ans if the winner of the Europa League qualifies via their domestic league, the spot left by the ELTH goes to the club with the highest coefficient overall in the qualifying stages. Instead: FM appoints the spot left by the CLTH to the champion of the country 11th on the coefficient list, and the ELTH spot to the champion of country 12. And with those spots taken, you'd expect the champions of the countries 15 and 16 would automatically move to the play-offs of the champions path (replacing the champions of 11 and 12), but FM skips the champion of country 15, and the champions of 16 and 17 move to the play-offs!! And that's just one example. In Europa League and Conference League similar things happen, especially with rebalancing the qualifying rounds. Adding insult to injury, the game also doesn't use the correct qualifying method regarding the UEFA qualifying section for the European and World championships. And as said, this ticks me of big time! Is it possible for SI to adjust this in one of the updates, or are we forced to wait until FM25 and hope for the best SI fixes this?

Thanks for the reply @rusty217 . Method 1 didn't work for me, even after carefully going through all the remaining stages to look for wrong stage numbers. In the Continental Cup section, no stages were displayed, so maybe I did miss something, or my first guess (something hardcoded in the game) is right. So I tried method 2 (copying entire league structures), and that worked like a charm!! I've tested it a few times in game, and all looks fine. I even could add tier 3 very easily, to be playable and I'm now working on tier 4 (with 2 subdivisions). Based on my experience that shouldn't be that hard too. You've helped me a lot, thanks again!!

Once upon a time ago..... Maybe some people will recognize me. Long ago, I've made a custom database for the Dutch league structure, all the way down to level 9. That was indeed a long time ago, the last database was for FM17. Due to personal circumstances and a busy professional life, I lost track of the FM-series after FM17. Until now. I've purchased the FM24-game, and because blood is thicker than water, I've started tinkering again with the editor. Not necessarily with the intention to make a Dutch football pyramid again, but just to slightly alter the Dutch leagues. I really dislike the structure with play-offs for the Conference League in the Eredivisie, and the period system in the Keuken Kampioen Divisie. Plus the fact that there's no relegation possible from the Keuken Kampioen Divisie, but those last two 'problems' can be easily solved. With the first problem however, I've hit a snag. Apparently. my advanced editor skills are 'a bit' rusty after 7 years not doing anything with it, and I can't get the Dutch leagues working like I want them to. Here's the problem: When opening the Dutch leagues, there are two Eredivisie-structures. One default, and one Euro teams. Because I want to get rid of the play-offs for the Conference League ticket, I removed the Euro teams one alltogether, and in the default structure, I deleted stages 1 (the Euro playoffs hidden stage) and 3 (an empty hidden stage). And in stage 0 (competition), I altered everything which has to do with the Euro play-offs. With stage 2 (the promotion/relegation play-offs) I didn't alter anything...yet. When I test the Eredivisie, the editor keeps saying that the competition is not finished on time to start the new season. And I can't for the life of me figure out why it's doing that. I've checked every date section of the competition, and checked it again, and again, but it keeps producing that error. Maybe there's something hardcoded in the game that prevents altering this? So, I came up with the idea to just copy a competition structure to the Dutch pyramid. Like the German Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga. I want to keep those competitions, but I want the formats of both competitons to be applied to the Eredivie and Keuken Kampioen Divisie. I just don't know how to copy one competition structure of a country to another competition structure of a different country. Is that even possible or do I need to start from scratch? Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Wow, this looks really, really exciting for me!! A couple of years ago, I created a database for the Dutch league structure, down to Tier 11. I needed to add competitions (parent and child competitions), cities, clubs (approx. 2500, including home kits), stadiums, regional boundaries etc. I used a pretty big Excel (and horrible looking) spreadsheet to do a mass edit, with converting the data in the spreadsheet to an .xml file and loading it in the editor. The last time (FM17) it worked well, although it was very much work. Now, after a 7-years absence, I wanted to do the same, only to find out the FM24 editor can only produce .fmf files and does not allow .xml file to be saved anymore. That sort of files I used to identify what parameters I needed to mass edit with my spreadsheet. So I pretty much had given up my efforts to make a new database for the Dutch leagues. Until I found this, and it makes my life a lot easier. I still need to look into it, if it can do everything I need it to do. But the amount of workload it takes of my hands, is amazing.