Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[hehehemann]

I read this and am wondering if its true, any quick fires know the answer?

[Erith22]

Any advice on how to get  DLP to more effectively impact play? I have a few elite to world class DLP but whether they are at DM or CM, they are always getting pressed like crazy, meaning they will either get skipped over by my players or they'll play a quick back pass when they receive the ball.

 

The result is they are often my player with the lowest match rating, with minimal assists.  Support or defensive doesn't seem to matter and I've tried several different formations.

 

Also does a BPD attract the ball the same way a playmaker does?  If together do they tend to just pass to each other?

[rsihn]

23 hours ago, hehehemann said:

I read this and am wondering if its true, any quick fires know the answer?

Yes, it is true.  Your senior team likely plays far more matches that your youngster probably isn't going to be part of so he misses the match experience, the training session he could have been part of if he were still in your youth squad, and then he misses out on any training the day after the match which is either devoted to training or rest.  This gets much worse if you are playing multiple matches per week where the player might only receive 2-4 training sessions in the first team whereas he would have received a full week's worth of training in the youth squad. 

It is also important to realize that the default youth training schedules, which you are using if you've left training to your staff, are different and separate from the other squad's training schedules.  The youth schedules have a much larger focus on physical development with two General-Physical sessions every week in every one of the default weekly schedules.  So your youth players who have been moved to the senior squad are missing out on all this extra physical development.  

[Dotsworthy]

On 22/07/2021 at 21:43, Erith22 said:

Any advice on how to get  DLP to more effectively impact play? I have a few elite to world class DLP but whether they are at DM or CM, they are always getting pressed like crazy, meaning they will either get skipped over by my players or they'll play a quick back pass when they receive the ball.

 

The result is they are often my player with the lowest match rating, with minimal assists.  Support or defensive doesn't seem to matter and I've tried several different formations.

 

Also does a BPD attract the ball the same way a playmaker does?  If together do they tend to just pass to each other?

I would suggest making a separate thread with your full tactic, in case there is something glaring that's causing an issue.

When I play a DLP, I tend to think about where he is aiming his passes, such as to an AF or W on the opposite side of the pitch on attack to stretch the play. A DLP will make risky passes so having someone to get on the end of them is important.

BPD don't operate the same as DLPs. They will potentially bring the ball out of defence and look to play killer balls. They are actually less likely to pass to each other because they are both looking for opportunities to make risky passes.

 

[glengarry224]

On 22/07/2021 at 13:43, Erith22 said:

Any advice on how to get  DLP to more effectively impact play? I have a few elite to world class DLP but whether they are at DM or CM, they are always getting pressed like crazy, meaning they will either get skipped over by my players or they'll play a quick back pass when they receive the ball.

 

The result is they are often my player with the lowest match rating, with minimal assists.  Support or defensive doesn't seem to matter and I've tried several different formations.

 

Also does a BPD attract the ball the same way a playmaker does?  If together do they tend to just pass to each other?

As Dotsworthy wrote, would need to see your tactic in a separate thread but in general, if your playmaking midfielder is hard-pressed, he will need good first touch, dribbling, technique and composure; also, it's important that he does not have a weak foot (i.e. 'right only' will be a problem).  If the opposition is going in hard on him, he will need good strength, balance, composure and bravery.  Of course, high determination is always important.

[eXistenZ]

In a 2 striker pairing, where both dont have a side preference. On which side do you play the rightfooted main goalscorer?

 

Im inclined to say left, so the shot come from more central in front of goal rather than at an angle. Is this true for FM?

[LHurlz]

56 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

In a 2 striker pairing, where both dont have a side preference. On which side do you play the rightfooted main goalscorer?

 

Im inclined to say left, so the shot come from more central in front of goal rather than at an angle. Is this true for FM?

Can work either way. Personally I'd play him on the right. I'm currently playing a 442 with a PF(s) and AF and I played my left footed AF on the left. He has 24 goals in 26 league games this season.

[GIMN]

3 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

In a 2 striker pairing, where both dont have a side preference. On which side do you play the rightfooted main goalscorer?

 

Im inclined to say left, so the shot come from more central in front of goal rather than at an angle. Is this true for FM?

To echo what @LHurlz said, it can work either way, but think about what roles you intend to use and how he is expected to score.  Generally I would advise being on the right hand side, as most of the more goal scoring roles (Advanced Forward, Poacher, etc...) have the Moves Into Channels instruction - playing off the left will see him getting the ball on his weaker foot more often than not.  I'd suggest playing on the left in a more creative role (Trequartista, Deep Lying Forward, etc...) as those roles tend to see the player drop deep and then drive at the defence, where being able to cut in on the stronger foot would be more useful.

[eXistenZ]

5 hours ago, Geoff Newman said:

To echo what @LHurlz said, it can work either way, but think about what roles you intend to use and how he is expected to score.  Generally I would advise being on the right hand side, as most of the more goal scoring roles (Advanced Forward, Poacher, etc...) have the Moves Into Channels instruction - playing off the left will see him getting the ball on his weaker foot more often than not.  I'd suggest playing on the left in a more creative role (Trequartista, Deep Lying Forward, etc...) as those roles tend to see the player drop deep and then drive at the defence, where being able to cut in on the stronger foot would be more useful.

Yes, in my original setup my main goalscorer (AF) was indeed on the right, with the DLF on the left. Howeversomebody pointed out the roles on the midfield behind them: a BBM behind the dlf and a mezalla behind the AF, and said it would make more sense to switch them. The BBM can run into the space the AF leaves, while the DLF can drop deeper because the mezalla has vacated that spot and drifted to the flank. But the mezalla is paired with an IWB on the right, so I can't swap them, it has to be the strikers.

 

So I'm not sure whether to leave it as original or swap them. On the other hand, my mezalla is  my main creative force and breaking up the direct link with the AF could be even worse

Edited July 25, 2021 by eXistenZ

[Craigus89]

On 23/07/2021 at 18:29, rsihn said:

Yes, it is true.  Your senior team likely plays far more matches that your youngster probably isn't going to be part of so he misses the match experience, the training session he could have been part of if he were still in your youth squad, and then he misses out on any training the day after the match which is either devoted to training or rest.  This gets much worse if you are playing multiple matches per week where the player might only receive 2-4 training sessions in the first team whereas he would have received a full week's worth of training in the youth squad. 

It is also important to realize that the default youth training schedules, which you are using if you've left training to your staff, are different and separate from the other squad's training schedules.  The youth schedules have a much larger focus on physical development with two General-Physical sessions every week in every one of the default weekly schedules.  So your youth players who have been moved to the senior squad are missing out on all this extra physical development.  

Thanks for this post. I feel like this is a point that is missed by a lot of people. Particularly at big clubs that have European competitions who may well go deep in cups as well, almost half of the season is spent with 2 matches, and in the second half of the season they may only have 2 or 3 sessions in one of those weeks which aren't rest/recovery or match prep which is likely ramped up for those big matches. 

If you're really keen you can add a really hot prospect or two into first team training for a week where you know there is a good amount of training and then remove them, or as I do sometimes if I think I may have them on the bench, put them into first team training for the week and leave them in there through the match day so they get the experience too (not sure if this has an actual affect on their mentals etc or not though).

I used to drop all my decent prospects in with the first team training until this lightbulb moment. I have seen a certain improvement in my youths development since I've stopped doing this. 

I feel like this info should be pinned somewhere or added to a 'important tips' thread or something.

[GIMN]

4 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

Yes, in my original setup my main goalscorer (AF) was indeed on the right, with the DLF on the left. Howeversomebody pointed out the roles on the midfield behind them: a BBM behind the dlf and a mezalla behind the AF, and said it would make more sense to switch them. The BBM can run into the space the AF leaves, while the DLF can drop deeper because the mezalla has vacated that spot and drifted to the flank. But the mezalla is paired with an IWB on the right, so I can't swap them, it has to be the strikers.

 

So I'm not sure whether to leave it as original or swap them. On the other hand, my mezalla is  my main creative force and breaking up the direct link with the AF could be even worse

Okay, looks like we might use similar set-ups.  I'm currently playing a 3-5-2 (WB & DM) with an MEZ (attack) alongside an IWB (support) and behind the AF on his preferred foot side (left).  The IWB and MEZ have a lot of assists from sending balls into the channels for the AF - who currently has 24 goals from 27 games.  On the right I have a DLF (support) ahead of a CM (support) who has Gets Forward Whenever Possible.  This sees the DLF drop deep and link up with the MEZ, whilst the CM breaks into the box to exploit the vacated space

[Erith22]

I acquired a player at early age 22, 170 CA / 200 PA

He has an 11 ambition and 14 professionalism.  I have world class facilities, every coach gives 4.5 stars in their category.  In two years he's now a 169 CA.  He's had a handful of slight to moderate injuries, never missing more than 3 weeks.  This last season he played 37 matches, 12 goals, 12 assists, 5 POM awards 7.16.  I just won the EPL for for the first time and won the Champions League Last year and quarter final this year so he's had top notch competition.  Club rep is worldwide.

Why isn't he improving?  Is 11 ambition so low that he is stuck?  He's 23 will turn 24 next season, which I know is at the end of the development curve.  Is he basically as good as he'll ever be?

 

 

[Sharkn20]

1 hour ago, Erith22 said:

I acquired a player at early age 22, 170 CA / 200 PA

He has an 11 ambition and 14 professionalism.  I have world class facilities, every coach gives 4.5 stars in their category.  In two years he's now a 169 CA.  He's had a handful of slight to moderate injuries, never missing more than 3 weeks.  This last season he played 37 matches, 12 goals, 12 assists, 5 POM awards 7.16.  I just won the EPL for for the first time and won the Champions League Last year and quarter final this year so he's had top notch competition.  Club rep is worldwide.

Why isn't he improving?  Is 11 ambition so low that he is stuck?  He's 23 will turn 24 next season, which I know is at the end of the development curve.  Is he basically as good as he'll ever be?

 

 

He was already late with 22, the higher you go the harder it becomes, you didn't say how much determination either.

[Erith22]

13 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

He was already late with 22, the higher you go the harder it becomes, you didn't say how much determination either.

det 14.  It may be screaming into the void, but obviously player development should not be done at 22.  He's a winger, and the game itself says players shouldn't peak for several more years.

[smeagoltonez]

2 hours ago, Erith22 said:

det 14.  It may be screaming into the void, but obviously player development should not be done at 22.  He's a winger, and the game itself says players shouldn't peak for several more years.

I suppose that you're not allowing for the element of 'chance' in your calculations/expectations. That relatively low ambition would also hold him back as its equally as important as professionalism & determination amongst morale & training facilities as mentioned by @Seb Wassellhere:

Just a few posts above @Seb Wassell also says:

'Determination, Ambition and Professionalism all contribute exactly the same amount towards the progression score. However a certain progression score does not guarantee a certain level of progression. A progression score only gives the player a certain chance of achieving a certain level of progression. This chance ranges anywhere from 0% to 70%. As such two players with identical attributes could develop very differently. Similar two players with very different attributes could develop identically. In this way it is not possible to reliably test a single attribute's impact on progression through simply collating and monitoring a data set.'

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by smeagoltonez

[palmamiguel92]

How do you normally deal with teams who play 4-2-3-1 geggenOPpressing, especially away games, its almost impossible to beat

[RCCook]

21 hours ago, palmamiguel92 said:

How do you normally deal with teams who play 4-2-3-1 geggenOPpressing, especially away games, its almost impossible to beat

If you figure this out, let me know. I've been having the same issue ever since FM21 Touch came out. I've tried so many things at this point that I don't think it's all down to tactics.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

It's an aggressive formation, which means it will be susceptible to counter attacks. There's also space to exploit between the central midfielders and defence. 

You can match the 4-2-3-1 man-to-man, with a 4-3-3 (4-1-2-3) or 4-1-4-1 for example. 

Another option, with the right sort of players to my mind anyway, is the 4-4-2 diamond (other narrow formations could apply as well). You concede the wide areas but also match their central midfielders, exploit the natural space in the 4-2-3-1 by having a 10 as well as being fairly well suited to counter attacking.

I'd imagine you'd need to start a separate thread with your tactic for something more substantial though.

[Salsa666]

Im currently playing a 5-2-3 wb+iw formation. Mentality positive. Ive tried a less urgent pressing and counter-press setup for one game (against a better team) with good result, not loosing. But my question is, Will counter-press and less urgent pressing Work  For the long run?

loe standard, Higher dl and narrow defending.

 

 

[2calvin]

@HUNT3Rhope you don't mind me tagging you. Figured you would know

 

If I play attacking with much shorter passing my players default to mixed. But if I play slightly shorter passing they default to short passing. UI bug? or not? If not why do they default to shorter passing on slightly shorter passing but not when it's much shorter passing?

 

default meaning in the individual player instruction screen

Edited July 31, 2021 by 2calvin

[mikcheck]

Hi,

Do you guys think this is some kind of bug or is just bad defending? This happened many times during this game: A simple (well I guess it's simple) pass from my GK to my AMC, who is totally unmarked.

[De Nile]

On 01/08/2021 at 19:56, mikcheck said:

Hi,

Do you guys think this is some kind of bug or is just bad defending? This happened many times during this game: A simple (well I guess it's simple) pass from my GK to my AMC, who is totally unmarked.

 

Why is the AMC unmarked 🤔

[NotSoSpecialOne]

On 02/08/2021 at 04:56, mikcheck said:

Hi,

Do you guys think this is some kind of bug or is just bad defending? This happened many times during this game: A simple (well I guess it's simple) pass from my GK to my AMC, who is totally unmarked.

Bad defending. They don't appear to have a DM, so your AMC is going to have space to operate anyway. They're also playing with a high line, aggressive pressing and 2 CMs who push up to mark your own CMs creating extra space between the lines.

Edited August 3, 2021 by NotSoSpecialOne

[Craigus89]

I've noticed that I don't have the option to ask the board for more scouts since the beginning of my save. Finances are fine etc. Is this a bug or something I've missed?

[LHurlz]

15 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

I've noticed that I don't have the option to ask the board for more scouts since the beginning of my save. Finances are fine etc. Is this a bug or something I've missed?

How many scouts do you have?

[koimes]

How do you know when to propose a stadium expansion or a new stadium to the board? What factors should be looked at with either option? Should I always try propose a new stadium before requesting an expansion? 

[kennypavey]

Have anyone here managed to create a "two man pivot"? I am managing a team who's greatest strength are the two central midfielders, who at this level are "complete" midfielders. They are top of the league in playmaking, work rate and defensive play. What I want it that at each given moment, one of them takes the creative role and one takes the runner role, but I want them to alternate. I have identified two ways to do this:

• Have 2 tactics that are mirrored, and change during game. This is not optimal as the "changes" are not play-by-play, but rather 15 minute blocks. Also, I need to manage two identical tactics at all times.
• Set player to switch positions. This is not optimal since one of them is best on the left, and the other one is best on the right. 

Is there any way to setup roles so that both have the freedom to perform both roles, but the discipline that one should always stay back?

 

[kennypavey]

Another question. Is there anyway to setup a "complete" midfielder role? For the RCM in the tactic, I would want him to do basically the following when regular LCM is not around:

• Drop deep to be the first creative outpost
• Support attack as sort of a deep mezzala, i.e. like a DLP but in the right halfspace.
• When he sees fit, attack the box 
• In defense, use his work rate to win the ball back

[mikcheck]

Hi,

Between a AM(s) and AP(s), I believe that the AP(s) being a playmaker will drop slighly deeper?

Edited August 9, 2021 by mikcheck

[HUNT3R]

6 hours ago, koimes said:

How do you know when to propose a stadium expansion or a new stadium to the board? What factors should be looked at with either option? Should I always try propose a new stadium before requesting an expansion? 

This is not training or tactical, so best to ask in General Discussion.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

7 hours ago, kennypavey said:

Another question. Is there anyway to setup a "complete" midfielder role? For the RCM in the tactic, I would want him to do basically the following when regular LCM is not around:

• Drop deep to be the first creative outpost
• Support attack as sort of a deep mezzala, i.e. like a DLP but in the right halfspace.
• When he sees fit, attack the box 
• In defense, use his work rate to win the ball back

CM(Su) would be a good starting point. Almost a clean slate, so plenty of flexibility with what you can do with PIs.

Dropping deep would be encouraged through Comes Deep To Get Ball PPM - tactical instructions like playing out of defense could help facilitate that.

Not sure if a central midfielder can learn Gets Into Opposition Area PPM but that could in theory help facilitate attacking the box.

For your defensive ask, nothing role wise. Use a player with good work rate and some half decent defensive attributes puts you in good stead.

[Prolix]

14 hours ago, kennypavey said:

Another question. Is there anyway to setup a "complete" midfielder role? For the RCM in the tactic, I would want him to do basically the following when regular LCM is not around:

• Drop deep to be the first creative outpost
• Support attack as sort of a deep mezzala, i.e. like a DLP but in the right halfspace.
• When he sees fit, attack the box 
• In defense, use his work rate to win the ball back

The Roaming Playmaker is the "complete" role in midfield:

• playmaker tag encourages the player to collect the ball more (i.e., "showing" for the ball more, which encourages movement into deeper positions when your defensive unit has the ball; the role is also available in the DM strata)
  • (+ Comes Deep to Get Ball PPM)
• the "roaming" aspect encourages the player to support the play in lateral areas where there is space; the player will also carry the ball to link midfield to attack
• while the player might not attack inside the box (if that's what you meant), but he will tend to arrive late in shooting positions outside the box
• this role is also coded to track back more, like the B2B midfielder

I would also expect a Segundo Volante on Attack to be involved in all 4 phases of play, but in a less encompassing manner.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Prolix

[Prolix]

14 hours ago, kennypavey said:

Have anyone here managed to create a "two man pivot"? I am managing a team who's greatest strength are the two central midfielders, who at this level are "complete" midfielders. They are top of the league in playmaking, work rate and defensive play. What I want it that at each given moment, one of them takes the creative role and one takes the runner role, but I want them to alternate. I have identified two ways to do this:

• Have 2 tactics that are mirrored, and change during game. This is not optimal as the "changes" are not play-by-play, but rather 15 minute blocks. Also, I need to manage two identical tactics at all times.
• Set player to switch positions. This is not optimal since one of them is best on the left, and the other one is best on the right. 

Is there any way to setup roles so that both have the freedom to perform both roles, but the discipline that one should always stay back?

 

Regarding this, you may wish to open a bespoke thread. My short thoughts (and plenty might have a clever way to actually do what you want) are that if one or the other has an edge in one particular aspect of play (e.g., playmaking versus defending) you could always assign roles respectively with the knowledge that their excellent attributes will still allow them to impact the game even without being given totally free license. At the end of the day, instructions and traits are only ever tendencies, not rules.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Prolix

[Karlo]

Where is @Experienced Defender ?

He was last online on June 22

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, Karlo said:

Where is @Experienced Defender ?

He was last online on June 22

There was a thread on the general discussion. It seems he stepped down from being  a mod

 

[Hilly1979]

1 minute ago, CARRERA said:

There was a thread on the general discussion. It seems he stepped down from being  a mod

 

Found it strange they gave me a very vague answer and then closed the thread to avoid a discussion starting 🤔

[koikingu]

Do upcoming match benefits from training stack (i.e. do 3 attacking movement trainings have 3x the benefit of 1 attacking movement training for the upcoming match)?

[HUNT3R]

17 minutes ago, koikingu said:

Do upcoming match benefits from training stack (i.e. do 3 attacking movement trainings have 3x the benefit of 1 attacking movement training for the upcoming match)?

No, they don't. There's no difference between having 3 of those sessions compared to just 1.

[Karlo]

12 hours ago, Hilly1979 said:

Found it strange they gave me a very vague answer and then closed the thread to avoid a discussion starting 🤔

Strange indeed, I appreciated his contributions very much.

[smeagoltonez]

On 11/08/2021 at 11:27, Karlo said:

Strange indeed, I appreciated his contributions very much.

 

On 10/08/2021 at 23:21, Hilly1979 said:

Found it strange they gave me a very vague answer and then closed the thread to avoid a discussion starting 🤔

If I remember correctly, the last post he made was attacked by another poster quite aggressively. I can't find the posts now so I'd imagine they've been deleted. I remember thinking at the time that it's the sort of ungrateful response that would put me off helping other players and being a mod & he hasn't returned since. It's a real shame as he's a great guy & if he doesn't return it will be a will lose to the FM community.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, smeagoltonez said:

 

If I remember correctly, the last post he made was attacked by another poster quite aggressively. I can't find the posts now so I'd imagine they've been deleted. I remember thinking at the time that it's the sort of ungrateful response that would put me off helping other players and being a mod & he hasn't returned since. It's a real shame as he's a great guy & if he doesn't return it will be a will lose to the FM community.

Ok, can we please move on. The link has been given with the answer and this is a quickfire thread. Thanks.

[rapidestimator]

Hey, where's the appropriate place to get some non-specific guidance on a save of mine? Started my first journeyman save with a job in the Croatian second league and am yet to win a game. Out of ideas at this point.

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, rapidestimator said:

Hey, where's the appropriate place to get some non-specific guidance on a save of mine? Started my first journeyman save with a job in the Croatian second league and am yet to win a game. Out of ideas at this point.

You can just create a thread at the Tactics Forum and ask all the question you want to ask. You could also share your save / screenshots there and i bet there will be someone who is taking a look into it

https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/19-tactics-training-strategies-discussion/

Edited August 13, 2021 by CARRERA

[fraudiola]

downsides to "tries killer balls" PPM?

[CARRERA]

6 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

downsides to "tries killer balls" PPM?

Potential loss of possession, high risk high reward

[eXistenZ]

In a DLF-AF pairing, is plays with back to goal a good trait for a strong dlf?

[Zemahh]

2 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

In a DLF-AF pairing, is plays with back to goal a good trait for a strong dlf?

I would say so yes, it's a trait that compliments DLF's Hold Up Ball PI.

[rsihn]

On 14/08/2021 at 14:34, eXistenZ said:

In a DLF-AF pairing, is plays with back to goal a good trait for a strong dlf?

Yeah, for the right player.  I'd make sure you are aware of the downsides to it though.  Once given this trait, the forward will basically never attempt to get forward on the end of through balls again so I'd make sure that you are certain that you'd never want this playert to do this even in another role.  In my own most recent save, I gave it to a big burly DLF/TM hybrid player who was very slow  and didn't have great anticipation and it worked out great but he ended up passing the trait onto other players in the mentoring group who absolutely should not have it and it ended up basically ruining them. 

[Johnny Ace]

Do playmakers gravitate towards the ball? Seen it said that they do a few times but never anything official. Is that what "collect the ball more" means in the hidden instructions?

 

[Colorado]

I've never considered myself to be completely at ease with the tactical side of stuff in FM.  However, I have read and watched lots different things over the years to get a basic knowledge, but does anyone else find themselves in a similar situation to me in that they stop understanding their own team's tactics?

I start at the beginning of the season with a base plan but as the season progresses, my tactics evolve. I'm not the fastest of players but after around 40-50 matches, I feel I've lost touch with why certain aspects work or don't work with my tactical system and I opt for changes that previously helpful me improve without understanding why.

My tactical plan just kind of unravels at this point, and I lose a bit of focus and interest in my save. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Colorado