Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Areolys]

6 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

You've got to tutor them, but it might take 2 or even 3 tutoring sessions to get what you want. Determination rises dramatically so start with a low DET kid. If he loses a few points for AMB and PROF, then get him retutored.

Yeah, but how?

I've got one guy that's Determined with 18 Det. (21 years) A

Then I've got one Model Professional that only has 9 Det. (24 years) B

And let's just pick a random guy that's balanced and 8 Det. (17 years) C

 

If B tutors A won't A's determination drop to 9?
Same thing if A tutors C and then B tutors C.

I've had it happen with some of my guys where they had more Det and lost their Det but gained personality. Won't it be the same thing if I first tutor their personalities to high and then increase their Det?

[mikcheck]

On 24/12/2016 at 02:07, Areolys said:

They stack, so you will get a small boost from it.

Check out this thread if you want to learn more about training and how to set it up effectively.

 

Thanks!

[Sussex Hammer]

Has anyone managed to create a 4231 but using the DM and CM strata rather than the CM and AM strata?  I been trying yet again in this incarnation and have the same old problems of being able to get it defensively sound but toothless in attack which is annoying because obviously what is on the tactics screen is your "defensive set up" but even with PI's and TI's I just cannot get it attacking enough.

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Has anyone managed to create a 4231 but using the DM and CM strata rather than the CM and AM strata?  I been trying yet again in this incarnation and have the same old problems of being able to get it defensively sound but toothless in attack which is annoying because obviously what is on the tactics screen is your "defensive set up" but even with PI's and TI's I just cannot get it attacking enough.

I haven't tried in FM17 but did this in FM16, and see no reason why it wouldn't work in FM17.  I used it as a counter attacking system.

I made a couple of posts about it in Cleon's art of counter attacking thread iirc, have a flick through there if you want to know more (link in the Guides sticky at the top of the forum).

[Sussex Hammer]

Thanks Herne.

[whoopy]

Guys I need help with conceding goals come from crosses.My team is in premier league and we haave been fighting for not to be relegated for 2 seasons.Players are all suitable for 5-3-2WB formation so I cannot use formations including wingers.Whatever I tried,I couldn't stop conceding from crosses,tried 4-3-1-2 as well but it didn't work too.Because I do not have wingers there is always a space on flanks.Although I tried in OI Closing down on opponent's backs and wingers they kept bombing goals  . I also tried less closing down and letting them play but it didn't work as well.This is my formation,if I cant find a solution its high probably that I will not be able to stay in premier league.

 

 

I also wonder what do you guys use for corners ? I've never been a dangerous on set pieces in FM17.

[Dr. Hook]

Whoopy- the problem you are running into is not having any wide cover for your wingbacks. If I had to guess, you are probably having a larger share of the problems down your left flank where your CWB is. That guy with an attack duty is going to struggle to get back defensively as he goes so far forward. I use a WB(A) on that side in the same formation and use a BWM (S) to provide cover. He will move out laterally to engage a winger or fullback coming down that flank, With this formation, you will always be vulnerable down the flanks, but that can help a good bit.  Occasionally against teams that are really exploiting the flanks, I use BWM(S) on both sides of the midfield. At the Prem level, you should have no problem finding a decent pace/acc, aggressive, brave, tackling guy for that role. It's a nice plus if he can contribute offensively as well, but his main job is to provide cover for your attacking wingback.

[FrazT]

Is there any way to get players marked at a throw in?  

So many times in the game do you see throw ins sent to a player ( on both sides ) with no other players remotely close to him, even in attacking situations.

[Guest]

No specific method, if a player is assigend to specifically mark an opponent they should be as close as allowed when defending a throw but that's it for defensive positionin for throw ins.

[whoopy]

11 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

Whoopy- the problem you are running into is not having any wide cover for your wingbacks. If I had to guess, you are probably having a larger share of the problems down your left flank where your CWB is. That guy with an attack duty is going to struggle to get back defensively as he goes so far forward. I use a WB(A) on that side in the same formation and use a BWM (S) to provide cover. He will move out laterally to engage a winger or fullback coming down that flank, With this formation, you will always be vulnerable down the flanks, but that can help a good bit.  Occasionally against teams that are really exploiting the flanks, I use BWM(S) on both sides of the midfield. At the Prem level, you should have no problem finding a decent pace/acc, aggressive, brave, tackling guy for that role. It's a nice plus if he can contribute offensively as well, but his main job is to provide cover for your attacking wingback.

Thanks Dr.Hook.I will reconsider this extensively.

[pedrosantos]

Guys, is there an issue with the Half-Back position going too high instead of staying back between the CD's ?

[Conflictinbanno]

Hi all, is there a place where it would be good to learn a bit more about utilising scouting properly. I'll be honest, I've never been very good at finding good replacements at potentially cheaper prices and it really makes me struggle in the long run with the game. I just want to feel comfortable setting up my scouts to help me have a decent pool of players to scout further to find to improve a side further or find someone young to develop into a role in the future. Thanks.

[Guest]

If your priority is finding younger players the best options is to assign scouts to watch youth/reserve competitions so that they are only looking at younger unknown players, when they are scouting a nation or region you'll find that the future prospects do not have a high enough reputation to get register on the scout's radar.

[BadAss88]

This maybe a stupid question but what average rating do you consider to be bad/decent/good/superb? And what's THE average average rating?

[Dr. Hook]

2 hours ago, BadAss88 said:

This maybe a stupid question but what average rating do you consider to be bad/decent/good/superb? And what's THE average average rating?

For me, 6.5-6.9 is an average/decent performance. 6.2-6.4 is subpar, below 6.2 I consider a poor game, and under 6 is utter crap. 7-7.5 is a good game for me, and above that is superb.

I use 6.7-6.8 as average, though I think the game has everyone at 6.5 to kick off a match

 

[Guest]

Unless it's been changed since I left 6.8 is the game average as that's the base value used in the form adjustment aspect of the str rating sytsem.

As for myself I sub 5 is abysmal, 5.0 to 6.0 to poor, 6.1 to 6.5 is sub-par, 6.6 ot 7.0 is okay, 7.1 to 8.0 is a good performance & 8.1+ is having a stonker of a game. 

[Boden]

On 23 november 2016 at 22:36, Boden said:

I've been thinking about this for a while now, so I thought to ask it here as it may be rather stupid questions...

1. Is the direct effect of team shape only in possession? Now, I do understand that this will for instance affect the defensive transition indirectly, but does the compactness etc only come in play in possession? In the tactical changes thread for FM16, THOG states that the team spreads out more vertically in possession... I just want to confirm this.

2. Does passing length affect crossing? For instance, if I use "play out of defence", my wingbacks will get the lowest possible range regarding passing length... Will this affect their crossing, or is that a separate entity?

Thanks in advance!

Bumping this one, and adding an additional question... Is the instruction defensive line an out of possession shout?

[sgevolker]

Hi,

I would like to know, if the attributes are adjusted to the league you are playing like the stars? I'm not sure about this. 

[BozzGer]

No definitely not. That makes absolutely no sense in my opinion and I never noticed attributes going down after promotion. Also some attributes can't be really adjusted I think. When someone can run 100m in 12 seconds he's fast in every league for example.

[Areolys]

20 hours ago, BadAss88 said:

This maybe a stupid question but what average rating do you consider to be bad/decent/good/superb? And what's THE average average rating?

This depends on your team, really. If you're playing to stay in the league your average ratings will be worse than if your team is one of the top 3 or even the single dominant team of the league (think PSG, Bayern).

However, I handle my ratings the following:

- In games: Whenever a player is less than 6.3 he gets benched. Unless I've already subbed two players and/or know I need/want to sub someone else later. But usually it's like that. If a player hits 6.0 or even below I sub him, even if it's the 50th minute and I've got only 1 sub left. He'll generally do more damage than a potentially injured player.

- After each game I praise all players that had a rating over 7.5. It bumps up morale and generally makes them happy. I also warn/criticize players that had a rating below 6.5 unless it was a game we were destined to lose, eg. Champions League or Cup against higher ranked teams or top team if we're destined to be relegated.

- My main squad has 22 players, 2 for each position (some players can play multiple positions, but I've got a specific first team and a specific second team for each position, just to have 22 players in my first team). On match day I check their last 5 game rating. If the first team player has a bad rating the second stringer will take his place. Generally, every second stringer with a rating of 7+ will start, unless the first team player has an even better / similar rating.

Generally speaking for me it's: Last 5 game rating + morale >>> Attributes.

 

1 hour ago, sgevolker said:

Hi,

I would like to know, if the attributes are adjusted to the league you are playing like the stars? I'm not sure about this. 

 

No. However, the attributes of the other team's players are generally lower. As in real life, a bad premier league striker could be the best goal-getter in the championship.

[Areolys]

Anybody know what this is based upon? My average age of the first team is 20.70. 10/22 players are below 20. Is this based on playing guys that are in my u23 & u18 squads?

[Dr. Hook]

2 hours ago, Areolys said:

Anybody know what this is based upon? My average age of the first team is 20.70. 10/22 players are below 20. Is this based on playing guys that are in my u23 & u18 squads?

Are your young players ones who have come out of your youth system? Playing young players that you've acquired from somewhere else won't satisfy this.

[Areolys]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

Are your young players ones who have come out of your youth system? Playing young players that you've acquired from somewhere else won't satisfy this.

Yes, 90% of my first team consists of youth intake players. The other two are players that were there when I started the save 9 seasons ago. My ratio should be 100% IMHO.

I posted it as a bug, since this doesn't seem to be working the way it should.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Areolys

[Dr. Hook]

Just now, Areolys said:

Yes, 90% of my first team consists of youth intake players. The other two are players that were there when I started the save 9 seasons ago. I'm just about to post this as a bug, since my ratio should be 100% IMHO.

Yeah, that was my next suggestion if you answered yes- raise it in the bugs forum

[kingjericho]

For this setup, what would be the most fitting strategy?

From @Cleon post (I think from the counter attacking thread), 3 attacking duties would link to a control strategy.

The setup itself it seems to point towards a more aggressive strategy, right? Will defensive/counter have a sort of contradictory effect, since the instructions are fairly aggressive?

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by kingjericho

[mikcheck]

Hello. Something is confusing me because i've read that using TI play wider does not affect passing focus but i've also read that it also sets focus passing down both flanks, So which one is correct?

Edited December 31, 2016 by mikcheck

[kingjericho]

7 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Hello. Something is confusing me because i've read that using TI play wider does not affect passing focus but i've also read that it also sets focus passing down both flanks, So which one is correct?

It affected until FM15. From FM16 onwards, it doesn't anymore.

Check post #3 of this thread.

[Dr. Hook]

2 hours ago, kingjericho said:

For this setup, what would be the most fitting strategy?

From @Cleon post (I think from the counter attacking thread), 3 attacking duties would link to a control strategy.

The setup itself it seems to point towards a more aggressive strategy, right? Will defensive/counter have a sort of contradictory effect, since the instructions are fairly aggressive?

 

For me, mentality is a risk setting only. I don't think of it at all as what the labels are on the tin, because they don't really describe what is actually happening. Rashidi has recently made a nice short video exlpaining this. So, you can use any mentality with any combination of roles and duties and instructions, by thinking of mentality as your risk tolerance. I think the number of attack/defend duties for certain mentalities can act as a basic guide if only because it stands to reason that if you are an adopting a more risk strategy such as attacking, you would likely want some players pushing forward and taking some risks as well, and vice versa.

So I guess to answer your question, how much risk do you want to take going forward? Your answer to that is your answer :).

 

[mikcheck]

10 hours ago, kingjericho said:

It affected until FM15. From FM16 onwards, it doesn't anymore.

Check post #3 of this thread.

 

Thanks. I'm glad it doesnt change passing focus.

[BozzGer]

 

Now I have an idea why nothing works with this team. What a style I can play with them? I mean they can literally nothing. Counter Attacking won't work because of the bad decision making, just pumping the ball into the box and hope for something can't work because there are no tall and powerful players, possession/attacking won't work because they are all bad^^, 

[QSF25]

Let's say you decided to train tackle and after 2 weeks it grows from 10 to 10.2 would it be wise to wait more time in 2 or 3 month cycle or change it to another attribute and wait until tackle can be focused again.

[Dr. Hook]

15 minutes ago, QSF25 said:

Let's say you decided to train tackle and after 2 weeks it grows from 10 to 10.2 would it be wise to wait more time in 2 or 3 month cycle or change it to another attribute and wait until tackle can be focused again.

If it improved that much in 2 weeks, I can imagine what might happen in 60 or 90 days! I always run 3 month periods with the training, but I've never really done that level of min/maxing with it.

[QSF25]

2 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

If it improved that much in 2 weeks, I can imagine what might happen in 60 or 90 days! I always run 3 month periods with the training, but I've never really done that level of min/maxing with it.

I read one of cleons guides and my question is mostly about one thing he said: when an attribute grows it stops growing until another attribute is picked and then you can go back to it so I am trying to figure what level min max should be done. 

I do have a 2 month cycle on attributes.

[Dr. Hook]

4 minutes ago, QSF25 said:

I read one of cleons guides and my question is mostly about one thing he said: when an attribute grows it stops growing until another attribute is picked and then you can go back to it so I am trying to figure what level min max should be done. 

I do have a 2 month cycle on attributes.

Do you remember where you read that exactly? I'd like to see the context of it to how it applies here. I do know that two weeks is nowhere near whatever limits there might be, though :).

[QSF25]

1 minute ago, Dr. Hook said:

Do you remember where you read that exactly? I'd like to see the context of it to how it applies here. I do know that two weeks is nowhere near whatever limits there might be, though :).

I would like to think that attributes can grow in a 2 -3 months basis depending on player mentality what Im trying to figure out is that if an attribute grows is it bit by bit in a 2 month cycle or is a spur withing a 2 month cycle. I should check the attributes one by one but sometimes player grow different attribute at the time.

[Dr. Hook]

Just now, QSF25 said:

I would like to think that attributes can grow in a 2 -3 months basis depending on player mentality what Im trying to figure out is that if an attribute grows is it bit by bit in a 2 month cycle or is a spur withing a 2 month cycle. I should check the attributes one by one but sometimes player grow different attribute at the time.

Right, so you trained it and it started growing, but it should be able to do more in your 2 or 3 month cycle- I've had attributes go up a full point in that time frame. The growth is gradual, is doesn't just shoot up in a day and be finished growing. Keep an eye on your guy and see how it does- if he's got room to grow it should keep growing

[QSF25]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

Right, so you trained it and it started growing, but it should be able to do more in your 2 or 3 month cycle- I've had attributes go up a full point in that time frame. The growth is gradual, is doesn't just shoot up in a day and be finished growing. Keep an eye on your guy and see how it does- if he's got room to grow it should keep growing

Thanks!

[phnompenhandy]

3 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

Right, so you trained it and it started growing, but it should be able to do more in your 2 or 3 month cycle- I've had attributes go up a full point in that time frame. The growth is gradual, is doesn't just shoot up in a day and be finished growing. Keep an eye on your guy and see how it does- if he's got room to grow it should keep growing

As we see from the misleading green and red arrows, it does fluctuate a lot at that microlevel.  After increasing 0.2 in 2 weeks it could well drop to +0.1 the next week and then stall for a couple of weeks before increasing 0.4 the next one. That's why I wouldn't read too much into it until about 2 months on.

[Dr. Hook]

Just now, phnompenhandy said:

As we see from the misleading green and red arrows, it does fluctuate a lot at that microlevel.  After increasing 0.2 in 2 weeks it could well drop to +0.1 the next week and then stall for a couple of weeks before increasing 0.4 the next one. That's why I wouldn't read too much into it until about 2 months on.

Yeah, that's a great point, they go up and down all the time- which is why we can always advise people not to panic if they see a bunch of red arrows

[Coolio5]

Does the scouting range have any effect on quality of youth intake or is it fully down to EPPP category, junior coaching, youth recruitment and quality of youth facilities?

[Sussex Hammer]

Guys can anyone help me with this major issue I keep having.  Most of the counter attacks I have against me are down to an opposition centre back ploughing through the back of my striker and his woeful attempts to hold up the ball (even if he isn't meant to) and it ends end up with him making a silly dance as loses possession time and time again.  It happens whether I have a striker with lower than average strength (understandable) but good strikers strength wise are being pushed aside like a feather in the wind!  Have tried various roles and duties, upping tempo, dribble more, dribble less and yet it keeps happening.  There are plenty of options behind him for a little lay off so he can then spin off between the channels but it never happens so no matter who they are they just get knocked clean off the ball and the opposition counter quickly.  Any ideas on how to stop this ?

[oohlala111]

@Sussex Hammer I'm no expert and this probably won't help but have you tried "dribble less" or taking off "retain possession" (if applicable)? If that doesn't work, see if there's anything in individual instructions that might help. As I said, I'm not a tactician so it probably won't help but you could try  

Edited January 2, 2017 by oohlala111

[Sussex Hammer]

1 hour ago, oohlala111 said:

@Sussex Hammer I'm no expert and this probably won't help but have you tried "dribble less" or taking off "retain possession" (if applicable)? If that doesn't work, see if there's anything in individual instructions that might help. As I said, I'm not a tactician so it probably won't help but you could try  

Thanks but tried all that.  It's very frustrating because dribble less they just stand there waiting to be tackled, but with dribble more they just run straight into the defenders.

[oohlala111]

3 minutes ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Thanks but tried all that.  It's very frustrating because dribble less they just stand there waiting to be tackled, but with dribble more they just run straight into the defenders.

Well, do you have players with low concentration/composure/decisions? This is all stuff you've probably looked at too but it might be an idea to buy some players in the window with a high score in at least one of those three attributes. Try getting Genie Scout if you haven't already, that can help with scouting. Also, have you considered what role is being played in each position? It might not make any difference and I'm probably thinking too hard but you never know xD 

Edited January 2, 2017 by oohlala111

[Sussex Hammer]

26 minutes ago, oohlala111 said:

Well, do you have players with low concentration/composure/decisions? This is all stuff you've probably looked at too but it might be an idea to buy some players in the window with those three attributes. Also, have you considered what role is being played in each position? It might not make any difference and I'm probably thinking too hard but you never know xD 

Yeah good point my strikers are lowish in that area.  Problem is when you scout concentration/composure/decisions for strikers with at least a stat of 15 only two names pop up and one is 39 and the other has other stats that are low so pretty difficult to find an all rounded player....

Plus I also find crossing a major issue in this version.  It seems to have been totally nuked after so many complaints that too many goals came from crosses last year,.  I'm hardly getting any crosses being completed.  Most hit the first defender and just go out for endless amounts of corners.  My corner levels are obscene, which wouldn't be so bad if I could actually score from corners but that seems impossible as well.  A very frustrating game.

[oohlala111]

Yeah, the game is very frustrating. With the United Arab Emirates in my journeyman save, my corner routine is a low cross to the edge of the box and we've scored twice from them in our last 3. As for crosses, I feel your pain- only the odd low cross finds its target. Low crosses are still OP compared to the other types of cross but it's like they 'over-fixed' crossing for this year's game. Maybe set your corners up like I do- put players in and around the area, try to get it on the edge of the box and shoot, it might just solve that problem like it sort of did for me. All rounded players are very hard to find in FM without spending ridiculous amounts of money- what team are you managing and what is your transfer budget? I can have a look on genie scout and see if I can find anyone suitable if you'd like. 

I would advise also to look again at your strikers, find the one with the highest concentration/composure/decisions and try scouting for something maybe 2 or 3 higher (unless that takes you to over 15!) Sometimes, little margins can make a huge difference in this game.  I certainly wouldn't want to be buying 39 year olds!!

Overall, I would say set pieces and crossing is very hard to master in this year's game, as is finding the right players with a good balance of everything. To reiterate, try 'edge of the box and shoot' for set pieces, low crosses if you haven't done that already and try to find a player with 2 or 3 more of those 3 stats than the player that has the highest of those stats in your team (e.g. if the best composure stat between your strikers was 10, search for someone with 12/13+). If you tell me your team and budgets I can possibly try and find a suitable player but there is, as you know, a limit to how good a player you can find with certain budgets and teams- taking relocation and wages into account too.

Sorry for the ramble and hopefully this issue can be fixed- if not from logical thinking, then by random tinkering and messing around with tactics  

 

EDIT: I just had a similar problem where my striker stood there and let it be stolen. Luckily it was saved but he does have low stats. However, he is one of my star players so I can't really replace him! 

Edited January 2, 2017 by oohlala111

[Sussex Hammer]

I'm with West Ham and the budget is ok.  Problem is Sakho has scored 12 in 14 in the League so I am happy with that but it's this constant dawdling on the ball that's frustrating.  He loses it, my wing backs are bombing on and yet he has two CM's sitting right behind him.  It's a simple lay off, short pass.  Carroll on the other hand is just hopeless and with crossing non existent it's pointless even trying to play him.

[oohlala111]

About potential signings, I don't know whether they will want to sell but have you considered Carlos Tevez? He has 15+ on all 3 attributes discussed, his current ability is 14.8 out of 20, his potential ability is 17.8 and OK he's 35 but he's got a few years left in him and genie scout reckons his sale value is about £500k. Alternatively, Kostas Mitroglou has a CA of 14.6 and a PA of 15.1- he might be 31 but again, he will be going for a few years still, as reflected in the potential to grow in ability still. According to the software, roughly £6m would be required to land the Greek forward. These are just two examples and there are lots more if you want them  

 This is linked to my save and it's in 2019 so the players will be a few years older/younger in your save, meaning the sale value/CA and PA might increase/decrease. However, this is just a rough guide and the PA will most likely be the same, as well as the value being similar.

By the way, have you checked out individual training? It sounds really obvious but you could train them to improve such stats.

Edited January 2, 2017 by oohlala111

[Sussex Hammer]

Cheers for that.  Actually Kostas Mitroglou was the 29 year old in my search of two so I might look at him.  Been trying to get Tevez for years in FM but he is never interested!  Not sure it's players I need though as the West Ham squad is ok, I think it's a decent tactic I need!!

Edited January 2, 2017 by Sussex Hammer

[oohlala111]

Well, I have a tactic that won me the league and EFL Cup and got me to the UCL final and FA Cup semi-finals in my first year at Spurs, as well as one that has got me 3 wins from my 4 away matches with UAE solely for away games- if you want I'll post some screenshots for them because Spurs and West Ham are quite similar and the tactic might work for you too  I have a 4-2-3-1 possession and control tactics as well but they haven't been tried and tested like the other two so just give me the signal and I'll post some screenies  

If you decide you would like a tactic but only 1, just let me know whether it's the 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 you want- obviously I won't be offended if you don't want either of them, it's your decision and I fully understand if you want to make one yourself. I don't wanna sound like I'm forcing it upon you  

Edited January 2, 2017 by oohlala111