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Mr Hough Rolls Back The Years FM12


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Hello Mr Hough, your tactic is working perfectly for my Wolves side in the first season. We are currently sitting on top of the table and that's a great achievement considering I only made U18 signings. I also used the new defensive tactic in the last two matches and it seems to work just as well.

wolvesfixtures.png

However, I wanted to ask you what your ideas behind the tweaks of the new tactic are, as there are some pretty drastic ones (super slow vs. super fast tempo, full vs. zero creative freedom for the forwards, down the flanks vs. through the middle etc.)

Anyway, I feel you finally managed to recreate a tactic as good as your 4-1-2-3 in FM10. :thup: Thank you for that!

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See the opening post for filters. However, the only difference between the MCL and MCR is that the MCL is encouraged to cross from the byline and the MCR is told to cross from deep. This means that the MCL will try and run with the ball further up the field before crossing. Therefore, I would still go for a DM/MC with tackling etc but try and ensure the midfielder with pace, dribbling, crossing etc is the MCL.

Whoops, just relaised I was talking about the MUFC tweaked version! Sorry.

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Hi Mr Hough

Just wanted to give you my progress with your first 'Mr Hough Rolls back the years' tactic because I think people here are being too negative.

When i first started to use the tactic i was halfway through my season with Everton and it didn't really work for me. The strikers i had up front were Saha, Wilfried and Cahill and they wern't really good enough. We ended up finishing 3rd by the skin of our teeth. My midfield too was weak. At the end of the season i got in a few more players but kept things young and fresh and carried on with your tactic to the start of the second season. I went on a 20 game win streak and my strikers were scoring ridiculously for fun.

My first 11 was Griffiths, Cardozo, Wilfried --- Verratti, Rodwell, Vass --- Baines, Jagielka, Samba, Neville. We beat AC Milan 5-0 and have been smashing everyone. Now though it's halfway through the season and some problems are arising. There just doesn't seem to be as much attacking intent or defensive stability but i think the problem is just the AI working out the tactic rather than any flaws in it.

I will continue and maybe switch to another tactic untill the AI gets confused and then i can switch back to yours. I will post screens at the end of the season to show you how i've got on. Considering my first 11 is nowhere near a 'top' side I think I will prove a lot of people wrong about this tactic with my screens.

Cheers and keep up the good work

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can you show your squad stat's page gazza? with the goals and assists for everyone so we know who works best where

I have already started pre-season mate.........but i have written out my best 11 for Average Rating........hope it helps......

Cech (GK)............52 Games........38 con.......29 Clean Sheets.........7.10

Bosingwa (RB)......44 Games........7 assists....................................7.27

Cahill (DCR).........37 Games........................................................7.42

Terry (DCL)..........46 Games.......2 goals.......................................7.30

Cole (LB)..............35 Games.......6 assists.....................................7.34

Mikel (DM)...........30 Games........20 assists...................................7.60

Rodwell (MCR)......46 Games........3 goals.........8 assists..................7.27

Mata (MCL)...........44 Games.......16 goals.......30 assists.................7.56

Sturridge (STR).....50 Games.......31 Goals.......24 assists.................7.77

Torres (STC).........41 Games.......75 Goals.......22 assists.................8.51

Lukaku (STL).........29 Games.......29 Goals.......7 assists..................7.73

Sorry its not ideal

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Having made some small tweaks to the original, it seems now to be much better for me. I'm Lazio and won Serie A last season by week 30, I've started this season well, but am not banging in all the goals most other people are. most results are 2-3 nil 2-1 etc, but i think thats more realistic.

I made all the 'hard' tacklers in the team 'normal' as I was having serious issues with cards and sending offs and also changed the full backs crossing to from deep, defensively it has worked wonders! Thanks Hough!

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This is probably the most unstable tactic I've ever seen. Tested it with 3 teams so far and had to change after like 20 games with frustration. Maybe I'm doing something wrong or maybe it was because I was managing lower league sides but all three of them were predicted as title challengers by the media at the start of the game.

The results you get from this tactic is so unstable that expect to win against a big side 0-7 away and then you may lose 3-5 or 2-6 against a weaker side whilst playing home. This can be completely reversed so it's not about my teams getting complacent against weak teams.

I looked hard to find the weakness of the tactic but I couldn't come up with something new rather than the points OP had already mentioned in his own post: empty flanks and low possession. The flanks are left so empty in this tactic that if you can't find an early goal from a corner or just a random strike from out of the box (which your central forward tends to do like crazy ) and turn the game to a counter attack football before 20th minute, then expect serious threat against your defence and the opposite team raining on you like an afternoon storm through the above mentioned areas.

The ball possession is completely ignored in the tactic, so that your players will not like to hold on to the ball and actually will be very pleased to give the ball away to the opposition so that the opposition would settle in your own half and so that your players -if they ever win the ball of course- may kick the ball high and long at some point which will hopefully meet one of the strikers who will hopefully produce something out of it and turn the tides. If such does not happen, then you can just go back the above paragraph and read the consequences I explained there. Now I understand there are football teams in RL who actually like to give the ball away so that they can counter-attack because all they learn in the tactic room and from training is to bust the opposition as quick as possible from the weakest spot. I think it was M'gladbach that played this tactic in Germany (I'm not sure about this) and after a few bad results their manager even said that the main reason was that they played with the ball too much. However, I don't think those teams in RL play with 3 strikers and two relatively attacking CMs while leaving their flanks and sometimes even the center of the pitch to the mercy of the opposition team like you do in this tactic. Playing against a solid team and if you failed to earn the lead in the game after like 20 minutes, it feels like now you are playing russian roulette with all odds against you. If the opposition strikers feel like scoring that day, expect to conced no less than 3 goals.

This tactic seems to accomplish something by playing with three strikers and 2 CMs while emphasizing the role of the central striker so much but it attempts this accomplishment in a way that it's impossible to achieve because of the many contradictions that are inherent to the tactic. I see it as unrealistic and irresponsible (from a football-minded view) to favorize attacking so much in many parts while ignoring the ball possession and defensive positioning.

Just my feedback.

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This is probably the most unstable tactic I've ever seen. Tested it with 3 teams so far and had to change after like 20 games with frustration. Maybe I'm doing something wrong or maybe it was because I was managing lower league sides but all three of them were predicted as title challengers by the media at the start of the game.

The results you get from this tactic is so unstable that expect to win against a big side 0-7 away and then you may lose 3-5 or 2-6 against a weaker side whilst playing home. This can be completely reversed so it's not about my teams getting complacent against weak teams.

I looked hard to find the weakness of the tactic but I couldn't come up with something new rather than the points OP had already mentioned in his own post: empty flanks and low possession. The flanks are left so empty in this tactic that if you can't find an early goal from a corner or just a random strike from out of the box (which your central forward tends to do like crazy ) and turn the game to a counter attack football before 20th minute, then expect serious threat against your defence and the opposite team raining on you like an afternoon storm through the above mentioned areas.

The ball possession is completely ignored in the tactic, so that your players will not like to hold on to the ball and actually will be very pleased to give the ball away to the opposition so that the opposition would settle in your own half and so that your players -if they ever win the ball of course- may kick the ball high and long at some point which will hopefully meet one of the strikers who will hopefully produce something out of it and turn the tides. If such does not happen, then you can just go back the above paragraph and read the consequences I explained there. Now I understand there are football teams in RL who actually like to give the ball away so that they can counter-attack because all they learn in the tactic room and from training is to bust the opposition as quick as possible from the weakest spot. I think it was M'gladbach that played this tactic in Germany (I'm not sure about this) and after a few bad results their manager even said that the main reason was that they played with the ball too much. However, I don't think those teams in RL play with 3 strikers and two relatively attacking CMs while leaving their flanks and sometimes even the center of the pitch to the mercy of the opposition team like you do in this tactic. Playing against a solid team and if you failed to earn the lead in the game after like 20 minutes, it feels like now you are playing russian roulette with all odds against you. If the opposition strikers feel like scoring that day, expect to conced no less than 3 goals.

This tactic seems to accomplish something by playing with three strikers and 2 CMs while emphasizing the role of the central striker so much but it attempts this accomplishment in a way that it's impossible to achieve because of the many contradictions that are inherent to the tactic. I see it as unrealistic and irresponsible (from a football-minded view) to favorize attacking so much in many parts while ignoring the ball possession and defensive positioning.

Just my feedback.

Don't use it then.

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This is probably the most unstable tactic I've ever seen. Tested it with 3 teams so far and had to change after like 20 games with frustration. Maybe I'm doing something wrong or maybe it was because I was managing lower league sides but all three of them were predicted as title challengers by the media at the start of the game.

The results you get from this tactic is so unstable that expect to win against a big side 0-7 away and then you may lose 3-5 or 2-6 against a weaker side whilst playing home. This can be completely reversed so it's not about my teams getting complacent against weak teams.

I looked hard to find the weakness of the tactic but I couldn't come up with something new rather than the points OP had already mentioned in his own post: empty flanks and low possession. The flanks are left so empty in this tactic that if you can't find an early goal from a corner or just a random strike from out of the box (which your central forward tends to do like crazy ) and turn the game to a counter attack football before 20th minute, then expect serious threat against your defence and the opposite team raining on you like an afternoon storm through the above mentioned areas.

The ball possession is completely ignored in the tactic, so that your players will not like to hold on to the ball and actually will be very pleased to give the ball away to the opposition so that the opposition would settle in your own half and so that your players -if they ever win the ball of course- may kick the ball high and long at some point which will hopefully meet one of the strikers who will hopefully produce something out of it and turn the tides. If such does not happen, then you can just go back the above paragraph and read the consequences I explained there. Now I understand there are football teams in RL who actually like to give the ball away so that they can counter-attack because all they learn in the tactic room and from training is to bust the opposition as quick as possible from the weakest spot. I think it was M'gladbach that played this tactic in Germany (I'm not sure about this) and after a few bad results their manager even said that the main reason was that they played with the ball too much. However, I don't think those teams in RL play with 3 strikers and two relatively attacking CMs while leaving their flanks and sometimes even the center of the pitch to the mercy of the opposition team like you do in this tactic. Playing against a solid team and if you failed to earn the lead in the game after like 20 minutes, it feels like now you are playing russian roulette with all odds against you. If the opposition strikers feel like scoring that day, expect to conced no less than 3 goals.

This tactic seems to accomplish something by playing with three strikers and 2 CMs while emphasizing the role of the central striker so much but it attempts this accomplishment in a way that it's impossible to achieve because of the many contradictions that are inherent to the tactic. I see it as unrealistic and irresponsible (from a football-minded view) to favorize attacking so much in many parts while ignoring the ball possession and defensive positioning.

Just my feedback.

I understand that this is your feedback but i don't see any points to what you are saying apart from what i have already stated. You say that this tactic has no emphasis on Ball Possession but i don't care about ball possession and i have said that a thousand times, I seriously don't understand why people bum the Possession and Passing stats so much and mean what the hell does 70% possession and 1000 passes a game do if you lose the game 1-0 it achieves Nothing.

I concentrate on high pressing counter attacking direct football because quite simply that is what gets you results and 3 points and that is all i want 3 magical championship winning points.

You say that the wings are Exploited because the fullbacks leave there position, I agree with you to a certain degree here, The fullbacks charge up the pitch to try and tie the opposition back in there half, I would say that this works alot of the time but on occasion when the opposition play with 1 striker they tend to make him move into the channels to he automatically drifts to the wings where it looks like he is in loads of space to receive the ball. This is what i agree on and have been looking at ways to sort this out but i haven't come up with anything yet.

My midfielders are set up as hard working players with maximum pressing so they cover ground, Now i would suggest using Defensive minded players in all of these positions as they will give you better tacking heading determination and positioning skills regards to attacking midfielders who lack these skills but make up with better creativity play making abilities.

When it comes to attacking i want my STL and STR to play out wide and move into the channels i want them to do this because with the fullbacks moving up the opposition fullbacks are occupied so one of the central defenders over out wide and that leaves space in the middle for the central striker and midfielders who make supporting runs.

I want my team to play fast Direct football, Now you might read this and think nothing of it but i have thought about everything i want my team to do and made them do it within the ME, This is how much detail i put into my tactics and that is why they and I are considored amongst the best out there at the minute

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superquote!!!

Unfortunately, it's not. While being completely aware that it's a computer game, those same people may be enjoying the game by reaching success via the most realistic way (including tactics) possible. It's getting really boring to pull the same old "some people don't understand this is a game" card whenever you expect something closer to the notion of "realistic" in your mind, may it be from the game itself or the by-products.

In fact, this element of gaming does not even need to be understood or appreciated at all in this case. I only gave a feedback there which didn't contain any direct insult or claim to the creator. As you can see from my number of posts, I generally keep my opinions to myself and maybe I should have done it like that this time too but since I loved Mr Hough's work in FM 2010 and partly in FM 2011, I thought it would be better to explain him what I thought was wrong in his tactic. He is entitled to disagree of course, both of us are but I think he would have mentioned it himself in his original post if he had not wanted to hear negative feedback. In contrast to that, he takes time to read my post and answer to it instead of pulling some old "internet forum cards" off his sleeves.

I understand that this is your feedback but i don't see any points to what you are saying apart from what i have already stated. You say that this tactic has no emphasis on Ball Possession but i don't care about ball possession and i have said that a thousand times, I seriously don't understand why people bum the Possession and Passing stats so much and mean what the hell does 70% possession and 1000 passes a game do if you lose the game 1-0 it achieves Nothing.

I concentrate on high pressing counter attacking direct football because quite simply that is what gets you results and 3 points and that is all i want 3 magical championship winning points.

You say that the wings are Exploited because the fullbacks leave there position, I agree with you to a certain degree here, The fullbacks charge up the pitch to try and tie the opposition back in there half, I would say that this works alot of the time but on occasion when the opposition play with 1 striker they tend to make him move into the channels to he automatically drifts to the wings where it looks like he is in loads of space to receive the ball. This is what i agree on and have been looking at ways to sort this out but i haven't come up with anything yet.

My midfielders are set up as hard working players with maximum pressing so they cover ground, Now i would suggest using Defensive minded players in all of these positions as they will give you better tacking heading determination and positioning skills regards to attacking midfielders who lack these skills but make up with better creativity play making abilities.

When it comes to attacking i want my STL and STR to play out wide and move into the channels i want them to do this because with the fullbacks moving up the opposition fullbacks are occupied so one of the central defenders over out wide and that leaves space in the middle for the central striker and midfielders who make supporting runs.

I want my team to play fast Direct football, Now you might read this and think nothing of it but i have thought about everything i want my team to do and made them do it within the ME, This is how much detail i put into my tactics and that is why they and I are considored amongst the best out there at the minute

Same as I mentioned above Mr Hough, I loved your work in times of FM 2010 and FM 2011. Unfortunately, I do not have time to put much work onto tactics and in fact, I'm not sure I would be able to come up with such successful tactics as your previous ones even if I had time. That said, I disagree with some points you make in your response to my initial post.

When you put the limit of ball possession upto something like 70% and 1000 passes, of course it doesn't make sense to control the game that much and still lose 1-0. But a bit of more possession football would help the players to position themselves better. The only solution should not be faster wingbacks so that they can return to their designated areas as quick as possible because they were in no-mans land when we lost the ball. We all know that pace is the king in this game but suggesting to increase the pace of your defense seems a little bit cheapish to me because there should be more elements there that we should look before we come to that solution. If there are not any, it's not your fault but SI's since the ME is not designed that way.

I experienced bad results with your tactic, some people do the same, some others don't. This is tied to too many factors that I find it pointless to discuss it here. It would be an endless list of factors. However, I liked your idea of getting more defensive minded CMs but won't it disrupt the core of your tactic of having extra men in or around the box when the opposition defense is widened? I will return using your tactic and will do the following:

- will try to get more defensive minded midfielders with very high tackling, anticipation and positioning ratings

- will try to increase the average ball possession by about 10% which will hopefully keep us always around 55%

- will try to implement a "shifting" play in the defense. Instead of sending both FBs out, I will try sending only one and keep one behind to see if the team's "played area" changes accordingly (to that flank) and how it results

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Hi Dave.

First of all congratulations on a brilliant new tactic. Great work as usual.

I started using it with Newport County and it done brilliant winning the BSP. As i used it though i did tweak it to counter the few issues i had with it. I first converted it to wizard then made it a 433 using wingers instead of 3 strikers. This stops the team being overun in midfield and closes the gap between midfield and attack. I also made tweaks to help stop the condition of the players being hammered.

After getting Newport promoted i moved to Notts County who at the time were rock bottom of L2. Went on to take them to 2 consecutive promotions with the tweaked tactic buying no new players. Now at Boro in the Championship, they finished 15th in the previous season and as you can see im flying high and have reached the final of the league cup beating Chelsea over 2 legs on the way. Again i bought no new players.

chelseavmiddlesbroughin.png[/img]

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@Furkan

I'm not pulling any cards. It's just a fact. Tactic doesn't need to be realistic AT ALL to work. And if YOU don't enjoy playing like that, no one is forcing you to do so. Really, some people don't give a flying rat's ass about realism, they just want results, and there's nothing wrong with that. Your post is all about improving the tactic for YOURSELF, which is apparent from "fast FBs are cheap" comment. There is also nothing wrong with that of course, but don't just assume everyone wants to play like that. I, for one, don't.

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Hi Dave.

First of all congratulations on a brilliant new tactic. Great work as usual.

I started using it with Newport County and it done brilliant winning the BSP. As i used it though i did tweak it to counter the few issues i had with it. I first converted it to wizard then made it a 433 using wingers instead of 3 strikers. This stops the team being overun in midfield and closes the gap between midfield and attack. I also made tweaks to help stop the condition of the players being hammered.

After getting Newport promoted i moved to Notts County who at the time were rock bottom of L2. Went on to take them to 2 consecutive promotions with the tweaked tactic buying no new players. Now at Boro in the Championship, they finished 15th in the previous season and as you can see im flying high and have reached the final of the league cup beating Chelsea over 2 legs on the way. Again i bought no new players.

chelseavmiddlesbroughin.png[/img]

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middlesbroughtacticsove.png

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middlesbroughvchelseain.png

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npowerfootballleaguechau.png

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Maybe you could upload your version ? I don't know if Dave is ok with that, but that would be interesting to have another fresh view on this tactic.

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Hi Dave.

First of all congratulations on a brilliant new tactic. Great work as usual.

I started using it with Newport County and it done brilliant winning the BSP. As i used it though i did tweak it to counter the few issues i had with it. I first converted it to wizard then made it a 433 using wingers instead of 3 strikers. This stops the team being overun in midfield and closes the gap between midfield and attack. I also made tweaks to help stop the condition of the players being hammered.

After getting Newport promoted i moved to Notts County who at the time were rock bottom of L2. Went on to take them to 2 consecutive promotions with the tweaked tactic buying no new players. Now at Boro in the Championship, they finished 15th in the previous season and as you can see im flying high and have reached the final of the league cup beating Chelsea over 2 legs on the way. Again i bought no new players.

chelseavmiddlesbroughin.png[/img]

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middlesbroughtacticsove.png

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middlesbroughvchelseain.png

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npowerfootballleaguechau.png

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Looks good JP, I was actually gonna move onto a 4-1-2-2-1 formation next but i will have a look at this tactic and if it holds up at my end I'll release it as a joint effort mate.

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Looks good JP, I was actually gonna move onto a 4-1-2-2-1 formation next but i will have a look at this tactic and if it holds up at my end I'll release it as a joint effort mate.

please get this tweak uploaded ASAPas ive just ran away with lge 1 with notts county and im about to start the new season with a very weak squad and really need this to finish 21st place or above!!!!

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please get this tweak uploaded ASAPas ive just ran away with lge 1 with notts county and im about to start the new season with a very weak squad and really need this to finish 21st place or above!!!!

Do you release how desperate you sound, Get a grip It's only a football tactic lol

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JP woody.... Is it possible that you upload your Middlesbrough tactic.

Just have succes with MR hough tac, but I like to play with wingers.

Thank you!! have a nice sunday

Dave/Mr Hough has the tactic. He is going to have a go with it, if he likes he will release.

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Helloo mr.Hough, I have to admit that against teams of the same level with mine or with worse your tactic worked great.

But I always seem to lose from high-level teams relatively easy, so is there any suggestion on how to tweak this tactic to have better chances with better teams?

I don't ask for miracles of course, just a piece of advice to give it a better shot.

Would lowering the "mentality" bar do the trick?

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Have tweaked the updated tactic and its much improved for me. I can't tell though if its more to do with my change in attitude to team talks or the tweaks that have made the difference. Im still truro and had straight promos season on season till the championship, In 2nd year of championship now having finished 16th last season. Again im expected to avoid relegation. My personal target was 10th, untill my changes that looked to be out of reach, but the date is now 10/1/2017 and im sitting 6th.

Mr hough, or may i call you Dave? did you alter the corner settings when you tweaked from original to the updated one? As for me scoring from corners has become vary rare, when previously (im only talking since updat not patch related) i was top corner scoring team.

Your tactic with various tweaks are taking me towards my ultimate goal of getting truro into the prem. Thanks for all the effort in the tactic and the thread.

I will try and put a screenie up if I get promoted this season.

Cheers for now Fod

Edit I may add that I only started using your tactic when I got to the Championship, previous to that I used on called Vtac.

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I have tweaked the tactic slightly as i have an AMC that I wanted to play him. Also i started using more DMC's in the starting line up. And the other Major change was team talks. I have no idea which of these changes have had the most affect. But I have a place in my team for my good amc to play and my results have improved greatly.

So this makes me happy for what ever reason its happened :)

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