What the hell?!

[KJT123]

Guys, the other night my team were playing absolutely terrible and losing every match and so i turn off my computer and forget about it.

Today, I have just gone on to fm and played with exactly the same tactics and look at the effect:

I honestly changed nothing, but now it's as if my team have completely changed

What's going on?

[Welshace]

Form? it happens? one win in the right place can see you go on a great run

[achilles-the-victorious]

All the wins (barring Plymouth) are at home. Your loss was away. Your two losses before the run of wins were both away.

So you might want to consider using this formation (and tactics) at home, and changing things slightly for away matches.

[Tastudark]

When you quit the game and load it up again, variables are randomized...it's been this way for years. Never seems to get talked about though despite it 'seeming' (in my experience anyway) to be the way to end losing runs.

[Guest]

When you quit the game and load it up again, variables are randomized...it's been this way for years. Never seems to get talked about though despite it 'seeming' (in my experience anyway) to be the way to end losing runs.

Utter tosh, saving & exiting does not change anything.

[timcliffsmith]

Works the other way too - I could be in top form and on a long winning / unbeaten run and then you'd save up, come back and start a new game and invariably lose. I always gave myself a second chance if that happened. It's all naffed anyway now since 13.3.2 as I can't win anything at all. And can't go back to 13.2.2 on which I was having great fun. So thanks for buggering up the game.

[fmFutbolManager]

Everyone knows that when you restart the game it restarts all form and moral. /s

[lost2escape]

i do believe that when you log off the game and restart it, things do change, i always find when im winning not to log off. but if i have lost 3 in a row. i log off, come back to it the next day and im on a winning streak again.

[themadsheep2001]

i do believe that when you log off the game and restart it, things do change, i always find when im winning not to log off. but if i have lost 3 in a row. i log off, come back to it the next day and im on a winning streak again.

You can believe it, but it still wont make it true.

[Welshace]

nothing changes when you reload sigh..

[hashassin]

Everyone knows that when you restart the game it restarts all form and moral. /s

yeah, and everyone knows as well that it resets the budgets, board confidence and that world is flat...

On a serious note, judging by your nick you are a Man Utd fan, so no one can be surprised you're talking rubbish...

[milnerpoint]

To be fair, im sure there is one random number that comes into certain calculations that does change, but its never been something that will win or lose you a game.

[themadsheep2001]

yeah, and everyone knows as well that it resets the budgets, board confidence and that world is flat...

On a serious note, judging by your nick you are a Man Utd fan, so no one can be surprised you're talking rubbish...

He was being sarcastic... so your insult was both needless and misplaced.

[robzilla]

To be fair, im sure there is one random number that comes into certain calculations that does change, but its never been something that will win or lose you a game.

et tu milnerpoint? et tu?

[milnerpoint]

French? I speak German sorry.

But there is a random number that changes, i have tried to find the thread where i read it, but it could have been from years ago, and the search feature on here resembles an OAP trying to remember the date they left school.

[Guest]

You clearly do not speak Latin either.

[milnerpoint]

Clearly. I struggle with English most of the time Barside.

[fmFutbolManager]

He was being sarcastic... so your insult was both needless and misplaced.

Thanks.

I just restarted my game to prove a point. But I failed... I've just lost 3 of my last 4 games after being unbeaten for 73 games... I don't think a team came close to my amount of shots or possession, either. Completely dominated all games and the opponents had one to two shots and scored from them.

Still, it doesn't prove anything. It's all a conspiracy.

[Theron]

Utter tosh, saving & exiting does not change anything.

I also believe that saving/exiting/reloading changes something more often than not. If that wasn't the case, why almost each time you save/exit/reload, the team's form suddenly changes and your players either become superstars or headless chickens all of a sudden? And this with the same exact formation / tactics - no changes whatsoever. It's strange to be honest but I believe something changes. I've noticed it in all FM versions recently.

Ok, some are saying that it's Form. So I ask - why does my form takes a dip exactly after a save/exit/restart the next day? Because it's a different day?!? (lol). I mean ... it can't be a coincidence because it happens almost all the time, like I said, more often than not. And even when form is bad ... when I save/exit/reload the next day, it almost always improves. So there's something going on for sure in my opinion. And it seems that many have noticed it as well over here. It's not the first time that it's been mentioned.

So ... if really some variables or something changes when you save/exit/reload, why don't SI tell us so? It's simple really. At least we know about it from the beginning. It can't be that most of us are crazy, no? I mean, many are noticing this!

Anyway ... to try and keep this problem to a minimum, I never exit the game and I never shutdown the PC. I just put it on Hibernate so that when I come the next day, I don't encounter headless chickens as my players! This way, FM works better in my opinion. I'm not saying that by doing this I never lose - far from it!!! I still have slight dips in form but those which are considered 'normal' and I usually recover from them in a game or two. Like IRL. Before, when I used to save/exit/reload the next day, I almost always noticed a big difference in the performance of my players and my team was almost unrecognisable! By not exiting, I repeat, even though there are moments where certain players lose their form for a while, it's not to a devastating effect like when exiting/reloading!

Therefore ... Yes, from my long FM experience, I think something does change when exiting - definitely.

[forameuss]

Therefore ... Yes, from my long FM experience, I think something does change when exiting - definitely.

It doesn't make it true though. There is nothing in-game that causes a change in the game when you restart. What would be the point? All it is is selective memory, nothing more.

[Theron]

Thanks.

I just restarted my game to prove a point. But I failed... I've just lost 3 of my last 4 games after being unbeaten for 73 games... I don't think a team came close to my amount of shots or possession, either. Completely dominated all games and the opponents had one to two shots and scored from them.

Still, it doesn't prove anything. It's all a conspiracy.

Just out of curiosity OneUnited ... when you had your 73-game unbeaten run, were you exiting the game or not? Because if you were not exiting, then I guess you did prove a point. You were on a great form (without exiting), you reloaded and 'kaboom' ... all of a sudden your team is not the same anymore.

If you were exiting/reloading during this unbeaten run, then my paragraph above is useless.

Having said that, I believe that after a 73-game unbeaten run, it's just normal that you start to lose a couple of games anyway! You can't remain unbeaten forever - no-one has ever done it!

But still ... I do believe that by exiting/reloading, something in the game changes.

[milnerpoint]

I close my game down every time i finish playing, i dont notice this at all. Selective memory.

[Theron]

It doesn't make it true though. There is nothing in-game that causes a change in the game when you restart. What would be the point? All it is is selective memory, nothing more.

Ok, if it doesn't make it true - can you please explain why my team's form (and of many others here) goes worse after exiting/reloading the next day? It just can't be a coincidence - no way! And when I say goes worse, to the point that I say to myself 'is this the same Premiership team I had yesterday? or I'm in the Conference all of a sudden?' That's how worse! Totally unrecognisable!

And when I say form ... I'm not saying 20 games! No .... for example, I played 2 games yesterday, managed to win and with good football. I save, exit, come the next day, reload .. play another 2 games and it's like I changed from 4-4-2 to 1-2-7!!!! Just to give you an example!

I mean, how can this be? We're on a good form, winning, playing well (not a long stretch of games) and then all of a sudden, the next day (IRL not in the game), we just don't know how to play football? Ok, I can accept it for a game or two ... it's normal even IRL. But it keeps going and going and going ... until you save, exit, reload and all comes back to normal again!!!!

There must be something!

[milnerpoint]

Do you remember the times you have closed the game after losing twice and re-opened it and won your next two games? Have you made posts on here when that has happened complaining that the game isnt working properly? Or is it only bad form that closing the game down brings?

Anyway, how do you know you wouldnt have lost those two games if you had carried on playing? Maybe the fact you expected to win them is half the problem?

[Guest]

It all about perception, if form always went to [bleep] when you loaded your save nobody would ever save & exit.

[Theron]

I close my game down every time i finish playing, i dont notice this at all. Selective memory.

Selective memory?!?! Hehe ... no way! Selective Memory - People who block out unpleasant memories or issues.

Are you serious? So you're saying I'm crazy or something like that? And to many others saying the same thing as me? Come on mate!

I play the game everyday and therefore I'm not trying to block out unpleasant memories/issues with an FM13 game I played a month ago!

Be real, will you?!

If it doesn't happen to you, then I guess you're lucky! Or you don't play too often, I don't know.

[looknohands]

It doesn't make it true though. There is nothing in-game that causes a change in the game when you restart. What would be the point? All it is is selective memory, nothing more.

Try a quick test and you'll see otherwise.

1. Go to your next game.

2. Save your game before you submit your squad.

3. Choose your team talk and play the game.

4. Re-load.

5. Choose the same team talk and tone- you'll get different results. Due to the influence of these talks, it's hard to say that exiting/reloading a game has no effect in light of the fact that the results of your talks can change each time.

[Theron]

Do you remember the times you have closed the game after losing twice and re-opened it and won your next two games? Have you made posts on here when that has happened complaining that the game isnt working properly? Or is it only bad form that closing the game down brings?

Anyway, how do you know you wouldnt have lost those two games if you had carried on playing? Maybe the fact you expected to win them is half the problem?

If you read my post earlier, I said that when saving/exiting/reloading, either your form takes a dip or all of a sudden your players are superstars! So it happens for both bad / good form.

And I'm not complaining by the way ... I just agreed with other posters here who mentioned it!

Like I said, I'm happy not exiting the game - in my opinion, FM13 works better. No headless chickens ... no out of this world superstars the next day! Just normal, like IRL .. as it should be!

[Theron]

Try a quick test and you'll see otherwise.

1. Go to your next game.

2. Save your game before you submit your squad.

3. Choose your team talk and play the game.

4. Re-load.

5. Choose the same team talk and tone- you'll get different results. Due to the influence of these talks, it's hard to say that exiting/reloading a game has no effect in light of the fact that the results of your talks can change each time.

Very well said! I've noticed that as well. Maybe because after exiting / reloading, the players are in a bad mood lol!!!

[Erith22]

All this 'proof' shows is that the game has a large element of random in it.

I've also reloaded a match 10 times and lost it every single time.

[jujigatame]

The game does have a high degree of randomness. Whether it's so much that it makes things unrealistic is, of course, up for debate.

[Theron]

All this 'proof' shows is that the game has a large element of random in it.

I've also reloaded a match 10 times and lost it every single time.

Well, sorry to say it ... but I guess it's your Tactics!!!

And I'm saying this because when on certain occasions I had to reload the game due to the game or PC crashing without having saved, if I played 3 games before and for example lost all 3, after the reload I usually win 2 and draw or lose 1. With the same exact formation and tactics!

So, definitely, reloading a match 10 times and losing it every single time, must be a problem with your Tactics.

And in my situation, it goes to prove that something changes ... because to go from 3 losses to 2 wins and 1 draw or 1 loss with everything the same, then something changed for sure! Don't ask me what but something changed!

[achilles-the-victorious]

If people want to reload thats fine. Its a game. Have fun with it. God knows in my 10 years of playing FM I have reloaded matches, where literally I felt like life could not move on until I win this next match, however many attempts it may take.

But don't convince yourself that you HAD to, and that the game is making you reload! Thats where you are going from having fun by reloading to just cranking up your own paranoia/superstition.

My squad have just won 24 out of 25 matches. That was over what, 4 or more days, of playing. Each time I only loaded the game once. Played every game once. Won 24, drew 1. There were bad games, there were scraped victories, and in the draw I did everything I could, the players just couldn't pull through (one player missed an open net! Then conceded a penalty! All in 45 minutes on the pitch).

The biggest thing I did differently in that run was log my team talks. My team would fairly consistently win about 4 out of 6. Win, win, win, lose, draw, win. I would get angry at them for poor performances and praise good performances. Our losses were most times followed by a run of wins, then another 'blip'. Now, I don't put nearly the same pressure on the lads, I don't tell them to relax so often, and I don't praise a marginal 2-1 win. Basically, if the team is in good spirits pre-match then I skip the pep talk. And so far, so good!

[Theron]

If people want to reload thats fine. Its a game. Have fun with it. God knows in my 10 years of playing FM I have reloaded matches, where literally I felt like life could not move on until I win this next match, however many attempts it may take.

But don't convince yourself that you HAD to, and that the game is making you reload! Thats where you are going from having fun by reloading to just cranking up your own paranoia/superstition.

My squad have just won 24 out of 25 matches. That was over what, 4 or more days, of playing. Each time I only loaded the game once. Played every game once. Won 24, drew 1. There were bad games, there were scraped victories, and in the draw I did everything I could, the players just couldn't pull through (one player missed an open net! Then conceded a penalty! All in 45 minutes on the pitch).

The biggest thing I did differently in that run was log my team talks. My team would fairly consistently win about 4 out of 6. Win, win, win, lose, draw, win. I would get angry at them for poor performances and praise good performances. Our losses were most times followed by a run of wins, then another 'blip'. Now, I don't put nearly the same pressure on the lads, I don't tell them to relax so often, and I don't praise a marginal 2-1 win. Basically, if the team is in good spirits pre-match then I skip the pep talk. And so far, so good!

Good point ... but we were not talking about reloading because of losing a game and want to try and win it! At least, I wasn't talking about that!

I was just talking about saving/exiting normally (to go to sleep basically) ... and then coming home the next day, loading the game and the save game of the previous day to continue playing.

It's at this point that I (and many others) were noticing the change in form / team & player performances for unknown reasons.

[Herbert Fandel]

It's at this point that I (and many others) were noticing the change in form / team & player performances for unknown reasons.

Noticing implies it is actually there. 'Dreaming up' would be more accurate

[Dagenham_Dave]

5. Choose the same team talk and tone- you'll get different results

Of course you will! There are so many different variables in a game, it's very conceivable that you'll get different results every time you play the same game, unless your team is massively superior (or inferior!) to the opposition, in which case, the result will be similar more times than it's different.

Too many people look too hard into things that simply aren't there.

[BiggusD]

I think that team talks are much more powerful than most SI-officials will admit. If the tactic is good and the players are at a competitive level, the final "polish" is the team talks and I believe lots of people simply praise wins and criticise defeat, like Achilles said. What happens then is that the player lives and dies by the hand of fate because nothing he say to the players make any difference. The result of this is a streaky fixture list like in the OP. He lost a game and morale went down, then he lost another and morale plunged further down, then he won a game and morale went up and won another and morale went further up. Your job as a manager is to make sure that morale stays high but not so high that the players underestimate an opponent.

As for the discussion about reloading, I think the observation is true, but not for the reasons that are mentioned here (conspiracy). Remember that after a night's sleep you have also reloaded your brain, literally. The frustrations and despair of last night is now gone and you have no longer the wrong focus going into a match; the above paragraph explains how we often tend to adopt our football fan mindset when playing the game; we watch and hope that our players get their heads out of their behinds and start playing football. That they don't make those silly mistakes and keep their heads cool. We all do this every weekend watching real life football both on TV and on stadiums around the world. Sadly, that is precisely what a manager should not do. Hoping does nothing! What it all boils down to in FM and for a RL manager is that ultimately the entire responsibility for everything falls on the manager's shoulders - it is all you. There is no hope, only action. You conceding a goal is you making a mistake, not the pixels on the pitch - because FM is only numbers. It is a statistics generator and you control all the input into that machine.

If you feel FM is streaky (i.e streaks of wins then streaks of losses, or repeated patterns like Achilles said above), you haven't mastered Team Talks. It's that simple.

[hashassin]

Now, I don't put nearly the same pressure on the lads

this reminds me of the greatest manager currently in the game (ok, i know there's SAF as well, but i dont like him, i adore Special One)

[video=youtube;wwzUqbdmyhE]

[IMT]

If you look at your run of defeats, barring the Port Vale game, you were never thrashed, seems you just needed the Aldershot game to kick start your season. Looking at the team I play for, we were on a terrible run of form which saw us drop to 3rd bottom, then we got a 2-1 away win at a side who had lost only twice all season, and we're unbeaten since, you could physically see the confidence returning to a few of the lads. I suspect this is similar to what happened to your Torquay side.

[fmFutbolManager]

Just out of curiosity OneUnited ... when you had your 73-game unbeaten run, were you exiting the game or not? Because if you were not exiting, then I guess you did prove a point. You were on a great form (without exiting), you reloaded and 'kaboom' ... all of a sudden your team is not the same anymore.If you were exiting/reloading during this unbeaten run, then my paragraph above is useless.Having said that, I believe that after a 73-game unbeaten run, it's just normal that you start to lose a couple of games anyway! You can't remain unbeaten forever - no-one has ever done it!But still ... I do believe that by exiting/reloading, something in the game changes.

My iMac is always on and FM always running. I believe this was just coincidence though.

[themadsheep2001]

My iMac is always on and FM always running. I believe this was just coincidence though.

Mine was frequently on and off during my 52 league game unbeaten run. Think I lost 3 times in all comps in two years.

[Carradona]

Sweet jesus, when will you guys learn?

Reloading only works if you wear a tin foil hat...

[TheBetterHalf]

In all My saves, I almost always get poor results after starting the save again after having been on à good run the day before.

This is down to me as à manager being tired after having played for 4 hours during the evening, leading to me neglecting the man management during the final 20 minutes and me saving the game and go to bed just aftet I have scraped that 1-0 victory. Here, I always get punished next time I load up FM and it usually takes me about 4 matches to put things right again.

[WizbaII]

Why not enjoy the game without worrying about what changes every time you reload? Of all the things to be frustrated about, you pick reloading games?

[XaW]

Most people experience something like this from time to time. It's called the Illusory correlation. You don't remember when it didn't happen, but you notice it the few times it does happen because it changes something.