gogogo golem Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 It has to be Cambridge since we have Oxford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muggert Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Hendon... Too few green football shirts in football! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelpars Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Kingstonian. Also I have had a slight idea mate, say if the team who finished top of the English Premier League's transfer budget is £50 million, you could pay £200 million for a player in 48 monthly instalments instead, the Low League team will still get the £50 million up front, but they will also get an additional £150 million over the next few years, just a suggestion as this will really financially cripple the top teams and help the smaller teams even more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadaza Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Oxford look like they have potential. Of course we need Cambridge to be the thorn in their side! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Kingstonian. Also I have had a slight idea mate, say if the team who finished top of the English Premier League's transfer budget is £50 million, you could pay £200 million for a player in 48 monthly instalments instead, the Low League team will still get the £50 million up front, but they will also get an additional £150 million over the next few years, just a suggestion as this will really financially cripple the top teams and help the smaller teams even more. Mate, this is a very good idea. I was actually thinking that the big clubs don't seem to be affected by the loss that much as they just seem to generate money. So if we go with an additional 150 million, and see how much of an effect it has. At the end of the day, we are fleecing the rich to give to the poor, so its only right. If that has no effect we will increase that amount. It'll also be interesting to see how much of an effect it has on lower league sides, with regular income coming in rather than just losng money from that one off payment through tax and such. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nottingham Forest Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 You might have difficulty with that as most transfers won't be accepted on this FM if they're just 48 month installments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullem Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Hendon I reckon, and that additional installments idea would probably spice things up a little, go for it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nie jem frytek Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Cambridge to fight with Oxford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letissierandhenryaregreat Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Hendon for sure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelpars Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Mate, this is a very good idea. I was actually thinking that the big clubs don't seem to be affected by the loss that much as they just seem to generate money. So if we go with an additional 150 million, and see how much of an effect it has. At the end of the day, we are fleecing the rich to give to the poor, so its only right. If that has no effect we will increase that amount.It'll also be interesting to see how much of an effect it has on lower league sides, with regular income coming in rather than just losng money from that one off payment through tax and such. Yeah if the big teams are constantly losing £50 million a year from transfers then this should really hurt them, especially with the bumper wages you are giving them, I presume that when you offer a contract to the player that you are setting signing on fees for both the player and the agent at the maximum amount? Yeah so whatever the big team's transfer budget is, you can offer 4 times the amount in 48 monthly instalments, I think the offer should still be accepted as this is a massive amount of guaranteed money for the small clubs. Plus I think the smaller teams could do better in the long term with money constantly coming in and they might therefore spend more of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenArsenal Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Cambridge for me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick_Tamland Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 This is great reading. I would think that the reason the lower teams do not spend so much money is there really are not "quality" players available to them to spend the money on AT THIS MOMENT until they get a little higher reputation. Anytime they try to approach someone I am positive they get the dreaded red box "I am not interested". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animosama Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Cambridge for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 This is great reading. I would think that the reason the lower teams do not spend so much money is there really are not "quality" players available to them to spend the money on AT THIS MOMENT until they get a little higher reputation. Anytime they try to approach someone I am positive they get the dreaded red box "I am not interested". Thankyou! I'm glad people are enjoying it. I'm training to be a sports journalist, so I'm just using the excuse for writing wherever I can. See, I thought the same, and as I put in as I put in a previous post, the unrealistic transfer quality goes up to lower end league 2 quality. But on your point about the dreaded red box, I decided to just try out making an offer (obviously not saving so I don't compromise) and players of BSP quality are demanding wages of 6k a week if the team is rich. So.. Based on that, it seems that the AI will not bust the bank for success and tends to purchase players that command a certain wage attributed to the quality of their league. Hence why you probably don't see many surprise packages popping up the leagues in FM anymore. And Cambridge City it is to rival Oxford. I will run the season tonight, update will be soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steboyuk Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Great stuff mate - some disappointing early results but I'm actually really impressed with how Oxford are doing, looks like it takes the season after the sale before the bigger changes really occur. Onto the players signed to the big clubs and that shows some interesting results - have the managers tried their hardest to get rid of them (which they of course should have), why is Stone complaining about not getting first team football at Man City when he is what a BSN standard player? My prediction is that these players may well just end up retiring - getting released by the bigger clubs, then demanding far too much money for their ability so nobody else signs them. KUTGW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 It was a disappointing start, and with constant relegations I'm starting to think that the gap between Blue Square North/South and the regional prems is high, where reputation is everything. I know this scenario was an extreme one, however, teams who have cash to splash don't seem to be splashing. If you look at similar cases in real life, teams like Fleetwood, Crawley, AFC Wimbledon, Whitehawk and even Guernsey at the moment, have instant success and successive promotions due to their finances. It will be interesting to see whether constant income for 4 years from the monthly installments will have an effect, and if they don't, if they work on teams with a lot of reputation. One thing is clear at the moment, if you become rich in the lower leagues, it takes a few seasons to establish themselves, yet only with stability. As for the signed players, there were actually some interesting developments that came up in the next update which I will post later today. Their managers have them on the loan and transfer list and just sit them in the reserves as they watch their funds deplete. They are oonly unhappy as when I gave them a contract, I put their squad status as key player so I could max out the wages and signing on fees. So when their new managers change it to not needed, but can't get rid due to high price and high wages, they just leave them. The interesting thing will be as you say, when they get released, what will happen next? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 Season Update 2015-2016 This season was the season that started things going, the season that started to see some results, but also with some twists and turns along the way. You chose Cambridge City to battle with its university counterpart Oxford City for promotion. Cambridge City This was the first season that monthly installments came into play, meaning that a lot more money went Cambridge City's way, with £2m a month each month for the next 4 years entering their account. They also had a stable manager in Gary Roberts, which meant that stability might mean the team may have spent more vigorously. As you can see though, that did not bear fruit for Cambridge. They struggled all season at the foot of the table, meaning for the last three seasons, our subjects have struggled and in the end, ended up relegated. This has led me to believe that even though they have the funds and can actually acquire quality players, reputation has a major factor in who they buy, even if they can do better. They sacked their manager in May too, bringing in Paul Wotton too late. As you can see, they bought from regional teams, meaning that they would inevitably struggle in this league. Let's hope next season, the team just survives if reputation is the bare factor, and that all important next season comes into effect then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 Update Part 2 2015-2016 Oxford City Oxford started the season on the back of a solid finish last season, losing out in the playoffs to Chelmsford. So based on a bit of solidarity in keeping their players and manager, they looked to push on this season. And they did, finishing top of the league, after leading it all season. There was however, a massive knockback for them, as they entered administration. They lost 10 points, but still dominated the league as their players were of substantial quality. It will be interesting to see how they do next season. They have good players,but they are now poor, and losing money fast. They do however have stability, and it will be interesting to see how they fare based solely on that. It will also be interesting to see whether a team with constant monthly installments manage to stay afloat before their finances drain entirely too. As you can see, they cut off a lot of deadwood to prevent them from slipping further in the red. The premier league had a little shake up this year, with Spurs coming out dominant. Man City, Man Utd and Liverpool seemed unchanged from their money losses. Maybe this will change if more money is lost through monthly installments. Man Utd brought in Ancelotti as manager. Derby County are also showing signs of becoming a force in England. I had a look to see why they have been successful and also to get a better idea at what our teams are doing wrong. There was no sign of a tycoon takeover, so I can only presume their owners had money in the first place. But a manager signing 4 and 5 year extensions coupled with a team that have played together for 2 years have seen them improve dramatically. They have signed better players once their reputation has improved too, so hopefully if Oxford City get some pennies back they might do well next season. Former Player News Declan Benjamin was loaned out to Newport County and Gateshead was largely a success in the BSP, but neither team paid none of his 925k a week. Bob Stone is now on 625k a week and still in the reserves. Graham Romeo sat in the reserves for Liverpool on the transfer and loan lists. Shane Bomwick did the same. Next season I will post a screenshot of Benjamin. Would a shot of his attributes or history be better for you all? And as for next season, you have Altrincham, FC United of Manchester, Dorchester Town, Concord Rangers, Lewes or Chesham United to choose from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letissierandhenryaregreat Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 FC United of Manchester Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullem Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I think yes to attributes/history for the players, maybe posting the links rather than image in future updates? And I vote Lewes, local to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steboyuk Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Wow, did not see that coming for Oxford! Very good season for them on the pitch, pretty horrendous off it. Good stuff thought, will be interesting to see whether you can really effect the Prem or not. Benjamin's attributes definitely for me also. KUTGW, Has to be Concord Rangers next season! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogogo golem Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 FC United of Manchester. They should have the quality to stay up and will have better financing when the payments start running dry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri916 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 FC united for me, KUTGW Superdan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animosama Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Fc united of manchester Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelpars Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 FC United for me. How on earth did Oxford City go into administration? What happened to the massive transfer fee that they were given I wonder? Good to see them getting promoted though, even despite the points deduction they won the league by a canter! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 FC United for me. How on earth did Oxford City go into administration? What happened to the massive transfer fee that they were given I wonder? Good to see them getting promoted though, even despite the points deduction they won the league by a canter! Through high taxes, higher wages and not enough income I reckon. FC United it is! I will do links to screenshots from now on, does anyone have the code for the links though, as my internet is poor so I do the reports on my phone. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyquest409 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 It's incredible that Oxford have managed to blow their way through £122m in four seasons! It'll be interesting to see how they continue, I'd imagine with no/very little money left now they would struggle in the BSP but who knows. It's a shame none of the other sides have survived or bounced back, but as more and more money gets pumped into the BSN/BSS, hopefully we'll see a success story appear. Hopefully we'll start seeing some financial effects on the league winners soon, it should mix things up a bit. City's wage bill must be monstrous by now with Benjamin on nearly £1m a week! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreassonp Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 HOW did they manage to go bankrupt that fast in the lower leagues? Dividends? Keep it up! This is a great experiment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Season Update 2016-2017 So after three failures, you pinned your hopes on FC United to become the new non league big boys. FC United of Manchester League Table|Transfers|Transfers 2|Player Sell Confirmation With Spurs being champions last season, it was evident that they would not have the funds that the other teams had. But they did have a few million, which would be more than enough for FC United. It would also probably affect Spurs more, as they aren't a rich club compared to the others.FC United seemed to follow the trend of our previous three teams, in that they seemed to purposely go out of their way to fail. They sacked their manager too late, and didn't sign anyone of decency. I don't think I've seen a fight from any of our failures, only Oxford has shown and sign of progression and attempts to do something about their situation. If anything, this experiment has shown that the game is heavily reliant upon reputation, even when everything else is going in their favour. Yet again, the new side signed players befitting their reputation, rather than their spending potential. They decided to sign players from the Regional Premier sides and free transfers than spend any money. It would be interesting to see if one side actually survived, how they would spend their money the next season. Oxford City League Table|Transfers To be fair to Oxford, they were unlucky. Tom Eaves was the 2nd top goalscorer in the division, and they had played well, but in the end their financial situation didn't help.An inability to sign players with BSP quality due to their off field problems, along with them having to get rid of some of their top players meant that they ended up relegated. On the plus side, they are now out of administration and can spend again, so next season they may bounce back, especially if they keep Eaves. Premier League Premier League The Premier League is showing that teams are still unaffected by being financially crippled. They seem to just generate money again each season without any problems. It will be interesting though, once star players are either sold or retire, whether the top sides can still buy quality when their funds are being depleted constantly. Teams like Hull and Derby are making Europe, which means that some dynamics of the Premier League are slowly starting to change, especially with Everton and Villa becoming yo yo clubs. Former Player News Benjamin Attributes|Benjamin History (I became manager of City to post his attributes but I didn't save obviously, I left on masking attributes because I was stupid)Declan Benjamin spent another season at Gateshead and is becoming a regular in the BSP. His contract will run out soon, so it will be most likely that he will go to a BSP team. Bob Stone, Graham Romeo and Shane Bonwick as well as Spencer Elenge, slugged it out in the reserves, taking up a massive chunk of wage bill. I've also put them as matching highest earner, so that they may just deteriorate the. wage bill through other players. Next season, I will show you Bob Stone's progress.Due to these last 4 results, I've decided to spice it up a bit. Its quite evident that it isn't solely stability that is accountable for spending funds. It is appearing that reputation is the major factor that determines a teams success and what they spend. Oxford City's reputation was much better than all teams that have been relegated thus far, hence them being the exception in this experiment. This reliance on reputation means that even though all teams have access to quality players and can actually sign them, their reputation means that the AI will not pursue anyone. Instead they will purchase players of quality based on their reputation.So as well as picking an unplayable side from Worksop Town, Wealdstone, Ashton Utd, Hampton and Richmond, Banbury Utd or Weymouth, I will get you to pick a side that finished in the 6 places above the relegation zone in League 2. These teams have far better reputation and are more likely to spend to push themselves due to this. So you also have to choose between Fleetwood Town, Grimsby Town, Burton Albion, Hartlepool United, Macclesfield Town and Dag and Red. I will split the funds from the winners between both sides. Hopefully, with more funds going out on monthly installments, this may cripple the bigger sides more. So now you have two sides to choose! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 This seems to be condensing my update. I apologise for the format, its s mouthful to read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatTraveler Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Maybe give the 'new' BSN/S sides the money from the Champions and the League 2 sides money from the second placed team? As well as maybe just choosing the recently promoted team with the highest reputation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Maybe give the 'new' BSN/S sides the money from the Champions and the League 2 sides money from the second placed team?As well as maybe just choosing the recently promoted team with the highest reputation? This would make sense, if we are taking down the premier league, doing it two at a time would fasten it. And from now on then I shall choose the non league side, which is Wealdstone or Worksop and I choose Worksop, and everyone else can choose the league two side. If reputation is the key factor here, using the bigger reputation out of the six is more likely to bear fruit.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelpars Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 You could maybe even give the 3rd place Premier League's transfer money to one of the 6 bottom teams above the relegation spots in the Championship, it would be interesting to see if with a warchest of money if a Championship team could get promoted to the Premier League straight away and what impact they could have on the Premier League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 You could maybe even give the 3rd place Premier League's transfer money to one of the 6 bottom teams above the relegation spots in the Championship, it would be interesting to see if with a warchest of money if a Championship team could get promoted to the Premier League straight away and what impact they could have on the Premier League. It would also give a better indicator on how finances impact sides at different levels. You'll have the BSN/S side where low budgets are usual and the AI will always generally spend that way. You'll have the league 2 side that just survived a bit of financial meltdown if they'd have been relegated due to the difference in funding between the BSP and League 2. League Two is also easier to get out of and its where teams start to spend a bit better and have much better reputations. In the Championship, teams are expected to spend to reach the glory of the Premier League, so if teams like Hull and Derby are to go by, this will be interesting. However, Championship teams will have to spend quicker, as higher expenditure means that the money will deplete faster.Ill post the bottom 6 Championship sides this evening when I'm back from work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullem Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I Chose Grimsby for the league 2 team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenzar Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This experiment has, IMHO, proven that reputation is too big an obstacle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 This experiment has, IMHO, proven that reputation is too big an obstacle. It is if you are lower league. It will be interesting to see the impact of reputation on finances in League 2 and the Championship. If the results are what I think they will be, I'm feeling doing another Great English Switcheroo but with new variables to show the impact of reputation on different factors in the game. That will only happen though based on if people want this experiment to carry on, because I will continue onwards if wanted. The Championship sides are Brentford, Bristol City, Sheffield Wednesday, Birmingham, Peterborough or Leicester. The League 2 sides again are Fleetwood Town, Grimsby Town, Macclesfield Town, Dagenham and Redbridge, Burton Albion or Hartlepool United. The non league side I have chosen is Worksop. Get picking! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelpars Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I definitely want the experiment to continue mate, it's been a bit disappointing with the results with the lower league teams, but I feel we should see a much better performance from the Championship and League 2 team, here's hoping! I vote for Leicester and Grimsby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nie jem frytek Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I'm feeling doing another Great English Switcheroo Good idea, but maybe in another league? Spanish or German? Or Spanish, German, English, Italian and French at once? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Good idea, but maybe in another league? Spanish or German? Or Spanish, German, English, Italian and French at once? As much as that would be awesome, the English league has so much more depth, and a country with few leagues would not have as much time to demonstrate dynamic reputation in terms of club reputation and league reputation, hence why the English league would be ideal. Plus my computer would not handle all those leagues at once!My plan was for you all to choose 20 random teams from the Regional Prema and under, give them all the reputation of the highest reputed team in the BSN/S as well as £100m each, then give some teams top training facilities, some extra money, some top youth facilities etc (I haven't thought of all variables yet), and see how reputation with league and club affect different aspects, as well as understanding what is fundamental in FM to make a successful club if reputation affects the game so much. The teams would then have at least 6 years before the old Premier League teams returned, as well as seeing how it affects promoted clubs with higher reputation but worse infrastructure. Or something like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDan! Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 For progress sake, I'm going for Leicester, Grimsby and Worksop. Update later.Also working out the finalities and variables for the switcheroo. If you guys have any suggestions for variables to test with reputation, let me know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccer.joel Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Interesting experiment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacenugget Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Great experiment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_barnes Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Instead of giving lower league teams money that they can't spend anyway, why not just take the lowest rep team in England and give them the highest possible rep, leave everything else as it is and change Man Utds rep to 1 and see what happens long term and how big an impact just club rep has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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