jase19 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 The only saving grace is these reviews aren't going to turn away perspective buyers, if your going to buy this game your going to hear about it from football sources more likely than pc gaming. Typically I wait to buy a game until I see the reviews, and PC Gamer is one I usually hold up there. FM is not one of them I wait for though, I just buy it. This whole review just really made me wonder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Yeah I agree there, it's a strange position to be in though. I wasn't a massive fan of FM14 yet I've put 777 hours into it There's no doubting that FM games are some of the best for value on the market, it just depends on whether you include whether the game is good value and consider that when you score it. It could be more that I am still set in my ways. I belong to the group that still remembers gaming before the internet came along. Back then I would buy my gaming magazine every month, most likely the magazine 'Crash', I would read the reviews and if I seen a game rated 60/100 I would avoid that game. I don't remember ever reading a review back then that rated the game 60/100 and then the reviewer saying he would "pour hundreds of hours into it". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 It could be more that I am still set in my ways.I belong to the group that still remembers gaming before the internet came along. Back then I would buy my gaming magazine every month, most likely the magazine 'Crash', I would read the reviews and if I seen a game rated 60/100 I would avoid that game. I don't remember ever reading a review back then that rated the game 60/100 and then the reviewer saying he would "pour hundreds of hours into it". "Crash" magazine....there's a blast from the past I'd forgotten about. /irrelevant ad break Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiston Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I'd suggest people all write a comment... but that would be childish and naughty... Buy Football Manager for the best Beta tester experience ever. Like that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 You just know Mourinho googled "good strikers for big clubs, 2014" about a week before they started negotiating for Diego Costa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent71 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I know it's the SI boards and people preffer sucking up, but the guy does make a lot of valid points. There are some things about the game that you just grow to hate overtime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 You just know Mourinho googled "good strikers for big clubs, 2014" about a week before they started negotiating for Diego Costa. Haha, indeed! It really sounds like the reviewer just wants SI to add a big 'IWIN' button then we can just do away with all the hassle of searching for players and building tactics etc. Maybe something for the wishlist thread, maybe even the smart guys at SI have already read the review and taken on board the "This is how most FM fans actually play" comment, may as well do away with this forum at the sametime, this guy nailed it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I can't help but thinking that basing a review primarily on the match engine, when it's in a BETA state, is a bit premature. That being said, I agree that the current ME (non live) is far too susceptible to crosses / cross field passes & long balls. I think that you will find that many pre release date reviews are of beta software. If they were to wait for the gold version the review might appear weeks after release, or months later in print media. I don't think the developers or the media outlets are interested in that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I know it's the SI boards and people preffer sucking up, but the guy does make a lot of valid points.There are some things about the game that you just grow to hate overtime. I see you are new, you never seen all the big forum explosions of the past, yeah this forum is all about sucking up I seen a picture of before and after of Kriss since he became a mod until now, before he looked like Han Solo, these days he looks like Yoda! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jase19 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 It's the scouting bit that really irks me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiston Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I know it's the SI boards and people preffer sucking up, but the guy does make a lot of valid points.There are some things about the game that you just grow to hate overtime. Main one for me, the constant array of bugs, especially the ones that have been in FM for many versions and just keep coming back. They keep trying to work on new things for games, how about just spending time ensuring players don't feel like Beta testers well into the next year after release. FM14 was my least played since CM01/02. I stopped playing as I simply felt like a Beta tester. Looking at Steam ratings, it's early, but FM15 is already 10% down on FM14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eusebio1 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I think that those reviews as the ones on Steam are very much dependent on personal expectations. Dozens of indie-beta games on Steam get ratings of 80% and more although they are barely playable, while an in my opinion good (surely not perfect) beta version of FM15 gets a - fairly - low rating. - Why? Because people expect every new FM to be the best and most revolutionary FM of all time - which isn't realistically achievable. Compared to most other games available - especially simulation games - EVERY FM is concerning its content and the quality of the latter extremely well made, which in my opinion is the main reason why both 'professional' reviewers and gamers on Steam rate FM15 fairly badly - the general standard is just too high to revolutionize the game every time a new version comes out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleb Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I think that people in general is scared of saying anything negative about the game. I'm still surprised after all these years, they release a half-arsed game, and I bet you that we will wait until the 3rd patch to be able to play the game. I can't remember a version that was playable with release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted November 6, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 6, 2014 I think that people in general is scared of saying anything negative about the game.I'm still surprised after all these years, they release a half-arsed game, and I bet you that we will wait until the 3rd patch to be able to play the game. I can't remember a version that was playable with release. Read this please - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/370304-Failure-to-Read-or-Follow-House-Rules Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmious7 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Who cares about reviews when talking about FM? It's by far the most played game in Steam and will continue to be so since it provides something that no other games provide: Endless replayability. Can't think of any other game that can provide me the 850 hours of gaming that I got from FM14 for example. FM is just a game that needs no review. We know what it is and what we're playing and honestly, we will keep playing as long as it stays true to the cause. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyedOutMan Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 had hoped to install overnight and be able to play as soon as I get home tomorrow but sadly no disc yet so bang goes that idea. Is there an official change list for the update from beta to game? I assume some things have changed and I would like to review it before deciding whether to start again when I get the full game or not.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Dejyothin Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The beauty of a game like ours is that everybody plays it their own way and has an opinion of what the experience should be that fits their needs. Everybody is entitled to their view and we're big enough, bold enough, and experienced enough to accept and understand that. We respect all views, even if we don't agree with them or feel they might be unbalanced, unreasonable or unfair. All we hope for is a fair crack at the whip (as we would hope for any studio and their work), and in some cases we get that, in some cases we don't. It's just the way it is. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism or praise. We've never shied away from that, but that's where the balance lies. We've been here long enough to know what we've done well and what we haven't done well, and we know what feedback is relevant be it positive or negative. In the end, if someone does a poor job of a review, be it unfairly biased in a positive or negative fashion, then they are doing themselves, their publication, the industry and the consumer injustice. It harms us all in the end as an industry. We don't claim to be perfect, but we do have a great team with the right ethics, values and attitude to working life and creating games as a studio. We'll always give it our best shot, and in the main, we haven't done too badly over the years. As ever, you who play our games will be the judge of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Things Could Get Messi Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Got to say it... After reading that I have huge doubts that this person would actually play Football Manager and he is actually reviewing the sort of game that wouldn't appeal to him. His bit about the tactics was the most baffling. I used short passing all the way through the beta and won a league with a club that were outsiders to win it. His whole comments on that make him sound like a noob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Come on mate, you act like you are new here. I loved this bit.... "Things taking too long is a theme the theme of this year’s Football Manager. Scouting players now takes several attempts, during which their attributes are displayed as a range (eg: 10-15) that you gradually narrow down. It’s a totally unnecessary time sink. I spent two solid months researching duff right wingers before eventually giving up and googling for one, which lead me to the excellent looking Andrija Zivkovic in a fraction of the time. This is how most FM fans actually play, but instead of embracing this level of meta-knowledge, SI are acting like it doesn’t exist." So how many people here got a telephone call from the reviewer asking how we played? I never got that call and I also do not play like that. I think I can speak for all of the mods that when we get user claiming "most FM fans think this", we know from day one he/she is going to be a pain to deal with. To have such a claim made in what is supposedly an industry leading review magazine is ludicrous. I can't believe it was allowed to be published. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOG Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Kinda ignores the fact that you can turn attribute masking off at the start if you want to play that way anyway....... Exactly. You can already customise the game to fit the way you want to play. There's even an in-game editor now. In any case, I look forward to FM16 replacing club scouts with interns watching YouTube goal compilations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Indeed, no-one ever criticises FM for any reason on here Wrong on every count- constructive criticism is always welcome and taken on board. Comments like this, however, are not welcome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Sorry, did I aim for a little bit of light-relief in an increasingly off-topic thread?No? He said people were afraid to criticise the game, on a night where there's already 200 comments on a thread to suggest otherwise. Your follow-up is disingenuous. Dry irony always risky on an internet forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Dry irony always risky on an internet forum Particularly without a winky involved Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joethe147 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 It's honestly disappointing how SI and some moderators react to some posts. Posts that have no swearing, aggressive nature or anything that is below any reasonable line yet they are treated with disdain. There are other companies such as Codemasters that get a lot of venom on their forums and they do not react anywhere near the same even though I feel they would be justified. There is plenty of constructive criticism which is deemed here as not constructive, meaning it will be ignored and not addressed. I do not understand it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartdude Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 So what,PC Gamer is not read by simmers but asswipes and idiots who play shoot-em-ups ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N^G Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 61/100, 6/10, 7/10 are all fair scores when you consider the lack of any real technical progress on the game since last year. It has to be said, that you cannot review an annual release in the same way that you would review most other titles as you have to look at what is different, what is better and what is worse, and when you consider some of the issues in the beta which these reviews will have been based on (goalkeepers, anyone?), it feels like a step backwards in terms of simulation. Rather than bemoan and deride the more negative reviews because you personally disagree with them, you should be hoping for SI to step it up a gear despite the lack of competition in this particular gaming niche and come up with a product for 2016 that everyone wants to give a 10/10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 No problems- I would say that it is hard enough trying to Moderate the forums on launch day without having to stop to look up what disingenuous means:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houndd Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Ridiculous, this review is a load of crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Rather than bemoan and deride the more negative reviews because you personally disagree with them That's not what people are objecting to. There have always been negative reviews and there will always be some who connect with the game one year and don't the next. If he doesn't like the match engine and scores the game accordingly then that is his prerogative as a reviewer. The problem with this particular review is that, while it raises a couple of valid points, it is littered with inaccuracies, poor research and faulty logic. Good reviewers don't push their own agenda or replace genuine critique (in depth analysis of faults and merits) with mockery. The review omits a number of features (such as individual training in FMC) and ignores customisation options (such as turning off the 'Fog of War') and misleads the reader in order to follow the writers narrative. I have no problem with a review that scores low if it attempts to properly inform the reader rather than dictate opinion without proper backup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizza Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 The only problem that I have with the Eurogamer review is the reviewer saying he will pour hundreds of hours into the game but he only scores it 60/100.That is a bit silly to be honest, any game that can give you hundreds of hours of enjoyment is a winner, not many games these days will keep you going for 20 or 30 hours let alone hundreds. Yes and no. Thing with FM is that there's a dearth of (realistic) competition, so if you want to play a football management sim, this is the game you're going to sink the hours into. There's lots of bits which people dislike (be they features, bugs whatever), but they'll put up with them because there's no other way to live out the football management fantasy. Although you make a valid point, to imply it's worth a high rating purely because of the amount of time that'll be spent isn't totally fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizza Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 One thing I wonder - do only positive reviews go into the sticky review thread? I noticed nothing in there has less than 7/10, whereas this thread implies there's a few 6/10 reviews floating around (and from more reputable sources than some of the ones linked). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 One thing I wonder - do only positive reviews go into the sticky review thread? I noticed nothing in there has less than 7/10, whereas this thread implies there's a few 6/10 reviews floating around (and from more reputable sources than some of the ones linked). There is a 6/10 review from Eurogamer in the sticky thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich10 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think I can speak for all of the mods that when we get user claiming "most FM fans think this", we know from day one he/she is going to be a pain to deal with. To have such a claim made in what is supposedly an industry leading review magazine is ludicrous. I can't believe it was allowed to be published. Big, HUGE, 10-4 on this. I've noticed that when games get good reviews, they tend to get torn to bits by the forums. So I do enjoy it when a 'Professional' does the tearing down and it unites a forum like this. This has been one of the more positive & successful releases of an markedly improved FM I can remember...and I remember them all. All of the work and effort gone into improving the game, and it's dismissed in this fashion & reviewed within 10 paragraphs and 1 screenshot. Lazy. Power to the People Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 One thing I wonder - do only positive reviews go into the sticky review thread? I noticed nothing in there has less than 7/10, whereas this thread implies there's a few 6/10 reviews floating around (and from more reputable sources than some of the ones linked). Another conspiracy theory nope, there's no selectivity, if you have a link to any review not on the list PM it to Neil Brock and it will be added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That's not what people are objecting to. There have always been negative reviews and there will always be some who connect with the game one year and don't the next. If he doesn't like the match engine and scores the game accordingly then that is his prerogative as a reviewer.The problem with this particular review is that, while it raises a couple of valid points, it is littered with inaccuracies, poor research and faulty logic. Good reviewers don't push their own agenda or replace genuine critique (in depth analysis of faults and merits) with mockery. The review omits a number of features (such as individual training in FMC) and ignores customisation options (such as turning off the 'Fog of War') and misleads the reader in order to follow the writers narrative. I have no problem with a review that scores low if it attempts to properly inform the reader rather than dictate opinion without proper backup. Pretty much nails it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Anybody who uses a review to decide whether or not they should buy a game is mad try any demo, read the game forums and if need be await developments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeD Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Bleb is being rather blunt here, but he's actually speaking the truth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan99 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 It's honestly disappointing how SI and some moderators react to some posts. Posts that have no swearing, aggressive nature or anything that is below any reasonable line yet they are treated with disdain. There are other companies such as Codemasters that get a lot of venom on their forums and they do not react anywhere near the same even though I feel they would be justified. There is plenty of constructive criticism which is deemed here as not constructive, meaning it will be ignored and not addressed. I do not understand it. Codemasters shut down their own forum for a few months, imagine that shitstorm if SI did that! Who cares about reviews when talking about FM? It's by far the most played game in Steam and will continue to be so since it provides something that no other games provide:Endless replayability. Can't think of any other game that can provide me the 850 hours of gaming that I got from FM14 for example. FM is just a game that needs no review. We know what it is and what we're playing and honestly, we will keep playing as long as it stays true to the cause. Cheers What? Don't go around just making up stuff (I agree with the rest of your points mind!). There have been 347,957,431 more hours played on Dota 2 than have been on FM14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Codemasters shut down their own forum for a few months, imagine that shitstorm if SI did that! What? Don't go around just making up stuff (I agree with the rest of your points mind!). There have been 347,957,431 more hours played on Dota 2 than have been on FM14. He means per person I'm sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 What? Don't go around just making up stuff (I agree with the rest of your points mind!). There have been 347,957,431 more hours played on Dota 2 than have been on FM14.I'm assuming he meant that it's the most played game that isn't a free to play title. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiston Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Anybody who uses a review to decide whether or not they should buy a game is mad try any demo, read the game forums and if need be await developments. Tried the demo, bugs/ weird MM made me give up before the season even began Certainly mostly the positive reviews will be put in the review thread though, most companies will do that even if they should have the more negative in the thread as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Tried the demo, bugs/ weird MM made me give up before the season even began Certainly mostly the positive reviews will be put in the review thread though, most companies will do that even if they should have the more negative in the thread as well. As I've already said once there's no discrimination, post links to any reviews not there to Neil Brock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANUMAD Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well at least he's rite about the tunnel interviews! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
louissiscool Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I was the first person to comment and it got deleted which i find odd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKenobiOne Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 "This is how most FM fans actually play" Don't know about the rest of you, but I've never played this way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKenobiOne Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Nobody panic IGN didn't let us down http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/07/football-manager-2015-review Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Nobody panic IGN didn't let us down http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/07/football-manager-2015-review Still, that first sentence is just so far from the truth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 People are so easily led by others. Look at 1930s Germany. And Blair in the UK 90s. Even Noel Gallagher fell for the latter. Here's a novel idea; try these things for yourself by way of demo and give it a go if you like it or can afford to if you're unsure? Or leave well alone if you don't like it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKenobiOne Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Still, that first sentence is just so far from the truth I think that was a tongue-in-cheek comment, thought that's certainly how my wife views it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 "This is how most FM fans actually play"Don't know about the rest of you, but I've never played this way Secrets. FM 16 will have three modes. -Football Manager -Football Manager Classic -Football Googler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.