Retain Possession - The right way to use it

[Rashidi]

This shout takes the award for the most misunderstood child of the Tactical Creator.

Explanation

The Retain Possession shout was introduced into the game as a one stop way of encouraging a team to play keep ball. It works by reducing width, passing directness and most importantly reduces risky passes, and this is where people using this shout will stop reading. So I hope you continue.

Reducing Risky passes = Take Less Chances, in other words players are encouraged to not play through balls, this can also affect long diagonals. When this option kicks in a teams attacking efficiency is reduced drastically as the side looks to pass the ball sideways OR punt the ball when there is no good passing option available, and this is where Shape and Duty allocation works to exacerbate the problem. If you have a team and have made the crazy decision to have say 4 players in advanced attacking positions...say for example a 424 or a 4231 then EVEN if you have most of the players on support, you could find the isolated. That shout will tell your backline NOT to pass the ball to them using a risky pass.

So when you think about it, if the central midfielder in your team is not in a good position to receive the pass, then the ball gets hoofed.

WHEN TO USE IT

The Retain Possession shout is neither an attacking nor a defensive shout, it just tells the team not to bend over backwards to attack. However you could create a right royal mess with improper duty allocations. I treat this shout as a defensive shout when I want my team to 'waste time'. An ideal way of using this shout would be to use it with the right duty allocation. Lets take a 442 for example...lets say you have the majority of your team on Support and only one CF on A, then your team will do a great job of moving the ball around to keep possession. I have added this and explanations of all the other shouts into my guide. I am still writing it and doubt it will be ready soon. However it should be relevant for FM16 and any version after.

So for now please use this shout wisely.

Take care

from Mickey Mouse and Me.

ps> Mickey Mouse hates this shout

[thomit]

I use this shout in the same way. But the issue I have with it - and some other shouts - is that it doesn't readily show what it does. Reducing width? There's no indication of that in the team instructions screen. You can see it when adding the shorter passing shout, not if you add retain possession. And there's no indication in the PI screens of any player that they're now making fewer risky passes. We cant see if it means every player, or if players that have risky passes locked as part of their role instructions are exempt. And so on.

Sort out the UI indicators, and we need less articles explaining what instructions do. And we can better judge if and when this or that instruction is beneficial to us or not.

[Dr. Hook]

Well there you have it. Donald Duck agrees.

[Dr. Hook]

I use this shout in the same way. But the issue I have with it - and some other shouts - is that it doesn't readily show what it does. Reducing width? There's no indication of that in the team instructions screen. You can see it when adding the shorter passing shout, not if you add retain possession. And there's no indication in the PI screens of any player that they're now making fewer risky passes. We cant see if it means every player, or if players that have risky passes locked as part of their role instructions are exempt.

Sort out the UI indicators, and we need less articles explaining what shouts do.

You and I both. This is something I have (and others) have been hassling the devs about for a couple of years now at least. I am tentatively hopeful that the upcoming version will have addressed this to a great extent.

[thomit]

In addition, of course, a simple text explaining in detail what the instruction do to both team and to individual players, wouldn't be so bad. Too often they are too vague.

[Rashidi]

Most of the shouts in the game were made a long time ago, way back in 2012, over the years they have been tweaked, while some have had profound changes. True more detailed explanations will help, but I can understand the nightmare it will create if tweaks and changes are made over time. Look at Work Ball Into Box for example, that instruction changed over the years from the simple one it had at the start which was simply removing long shots.

.

The most significant effect of Retain Possession, is affecting risky passes. Oh and those roles that have locked in Play Risky Passes they should be immune to the shout. So I hope me doing this post helps some people.

[Conflictinbanno]

Thank you Rashidi, I never thought about the reducing risk in quite the same way of almost forcing your defenders go long, because they could see the pass as a slight risk, whereas to me, it might not seem like a risk. Hopefully this can help me get on tract to building a tactical style I can use and understand. I feel like I'm getting there in the defensive phase, it's just getting the attacking phase correct. All I know is I prefer short passing, but I'm not exactly of the thought that's all I want to see, but because I liked to see passing and moving I always thought I wanted short passing or better yet retain possession, but knowing retain would reduce the risk in attacks could probably hamper me as in attack, I actually quite like to see through balls, especially when I'm in the final third, I almost like a lot of risks in the final third.

Which has made me think, in transition from defence to attack I'd actually much rather have a mix of passing and I just want play out of defence to encourage a shorter passing build up to start. Hopefully I'm getting closer! Thanks Rashidi, this was a good read and made me think a lot more.

I may also try to watch some of your videos and read some articles on your blog. I feel like I'm getting there thanks to all the articles from yourself, Cleon, RTH and herne, which should hopefully bring my love for the game back, if I fully know what I want.

[davehibb]

A version or two ago, I guess like a lot of people, this shout would be a staple of my tactics to enhance that possession percentage stat that a lot of us chased as part of out tiki-taka systems but now, I only really employ it late in games to try and waste time and smother the game when in a winning position.

Old habits do die hard though and it does grate against me a little still when I'm not on the right end of the possession statistics, when employing an attacking system

[PhroX]

A version or two ago, I guess like a lot of people, this shout would be a staple of my tactics to enhance that possession percentage stat that a lot of us chased as part of out tiki-taka systems but now, I only really employ it late in games to try and waste time and smother the game when in a winning position.

Old habits do die hard though and it does grate against me a little still when I'm not on the right end of the possession statistics, when employing an attacking system

I'm finding I use it much the same way. A simple "shorter passing" is my baseline shout for building a more possession-centric tactic, with RP replacing it when we're in a winning position and want to see the game out. If I use the latter from the word go, I tend to get good possession numbers, but end up doing very little productive with the ball.

[thomit]

Yes, that's what I use this instruction for too. 2-0 up, 10 or 15 minutes to go ... consolidate, tighten up and play it safe, yes? Just the instruction I want. But I can't tell you have many times I have added a goal or two more after issuing this instruction ...

Anyway, I avoid using it as part of a pass & move, attacking and high paced game, where I also want to keep the ball better than the opposition. Shorter passing is ok for possession, but even more so is heavy closing down + a high(ish) d-line. Its a staple of my Arsenal tactics, and I rarely fail to have more of the ball than the opposition, even though I'm playing high(ish) risk, high(ish) tempo, high creative freedom and with plenty of risky passes. Retain possession reduces my attacking alternatives. That's why it's a bit weird that I fairly often add another goal or two if I'm using it toward the end of matches I'm already winning.

[SamL94]

I used this on a Chelsea save and struggled badly. I wasn't conceding many, but just couldn't not score, and most games were 1-0 either way, or 0-0.

I'm currently on a Man Utd save (a team of similar quality to Chelsea) and am doing much better with 'more direct passing' enabled, and Retain possession red.

I'm not sure I'd use that TI again unless I knew how to make it work better...

[dusziv]

One thing that intrigues me is possibility to have 'Retain Possession' and 'Pass into Space' TI active at same time. It is said that 'Retain Possession' reduces risky passes, while 'Pass into Space' TI instructs players to place more passes behind opposition defense.

[HUNT3R]

One thing that intrigues me is possibility to have 'Retain Possession' and 'Pass into Space' TI active at same time. It is said that 'Retain Possession' reduces risky passes, while 'Pass into Space' TI instructs players to place more passes behind opposition defense.

Which will mean they 'cancel out' as you're removing it with Retain Possession, but adding it back with Pass Into Space. In terms of Risky Passes, there will be no difference.

[Exius]

Which will mean they 'cancel out' as you're removing it with Retain Possession, but adding it back with Pass Into Space. In terms of Risky Passes, there will be no difference.

So, this combination will only make passes shorter and nothing more, right?

[Rashidi]

So, this combination will only make passes shorter and nothing more, right?

Why would you want to over complicate things? Your passing settings work hand in hand with mentality shape and width.

If you want to play short and pass into space, I can't even get my head around those two concepts.

When you choose an instruction it's meant to intentionally get an effect you can plan for. Pass into space is meant to be an option that increases passing options but it's a risky option.

Retain possession does not reduce that risk simply by telling players not to take risks, it does it via other aspects, furthermore there are other factors that affect your passing options and these include shape, roles and duties.

The one rule of thumb is to keep your shouts simple, don't add layers of complexity you can't control.

[pedrosantos]

Always thought Retain Possession as a waste time shout, so in this perspective, a ultra-defensive shout that is meant to keep the ball just for the sake of it. Assuming this is correct, I wonder why people would use it when trying to emulate Guardiola's Barcelona, but, on the other hand, I have never find any tactic above 65% possession without the Retain Possession shout. So, I'm thinking that the game itself could improve in terms of positional play football with some kind of options to enhance this specific style.

[nick1408]

I've never liked tactics that combined retain possession with shorter passing. I think they create too few chances when used together. I do have a question though. If I want most of the b benefits of retain possession but also want through balls and diagonal balls what shouts (if any) would I use?

[roggiotis]

I have never find any tactic above 65% possession without the Retain Possession shout.

Not true

[pedrosantos]

Not true

I didn't say its not possible or that it doesn't exist, so I don't know how is my sentence not true since I said I've never found one.

[herne79]

I've never liked tactics that combined retain possession with shorter passing. I think they create too few chances when used together. I do have a question though. If I want most of the b benefits of retain possession but also want through balls and diagonal balls what shouts (if any) would I use?

Rather than thinking of shouts, consider roles, duties, PIs and PPMs. Shouts affect the whole team, whereas these roles, duties etc can be used to target specific players.

Not true

It would help the discussion more by elaborating rather than simply contradicting .

[roggiotis]

I didn't say its not possible or that it doesn't exist, so I don't know how is my sentence not true since I said I've never found one.

You are right , i misunderstood what you said ,sorry , and i didn't want to contradict , i wanted to say that is possible

[pedrosantos]

You are right , i misunderstood what you said ,sorry , and i didn't want to contradict , i wanted to say that is possible

that's fine well, if you know its possible you might as well share it.

[Rashidi]

Always thought Retain Possession as a waste time shout, so in this perspective, a ultra-defensive shout that is meant to keep the ball just for the sake of it. Assuming this is correct, I wonder why people would use it when trying to emulate Guardiola's Barcelona, but, on the other hand, I have never find any tactic above 65% possession without the Retain Possession shout. So, I'm thinking that the game itself could improve in terms of positional play football with some kind of options to enhance this specific style.

You can create ultra possession tactics without using the Retain Possession shout. And I don't plan on elaborating, the purpose of this thread is to explain how the Retain Possession shout should be used. It is not meant to be a thread to explain to people how to combine various elements for ultra possession.

That discussion will derail the thread and create a whole set of other discussions. This thread is about the proper use of the RP shout, and Herne was right not to go into details.

[nick1408]

Rather than thinking of shouts, consider roles, duties, PIs and PPMs. Shouts affect the whole team, whereas these roles, duties etc can be used to target specific players.

That's a really good tip. I am playing a 3-1-4-2 at the moment. I have a CMa in the midfield (Ross Barkley or Davy Klaassen) who I have told to take more risky passes. Along with the retain possession shout I feel this does in fact do what I am after (my question was not about a specific, more a generalisation). My current wingers are DWs with two PI's (can't remember what - I think cross from byline and maybe dribble more?). I am not sure what I would give them to switch possession to the other side of the pitch. I am only operating 4 TI's (retain possession, close down more, tighter marking and tackle harder) on a defensive mentality and I think either structured or very structured shape. Everything is working for the moment but I was just curious.

I do have a further question though - should very structured be used as sparingly as overload or contain? Both I am lead to believe are used in specific circumstances. Should a very structured shape be used in the same way? I took a lot of inspiration from the Community Formation Experiment thread for my current tactic and if anything else it showed me that 3 men defences can get overrun quite easily with their support players (WB's for example) not staying wide enough to give cover. I am playing defensive and structured to keep a bit of shape and play a bit safer (especially during the defensive stages of the game). I have also tried very structured and like it for stability ( a good reason to keep it) but am a bit concerned it may limit my attacking potency a bit.

[HUNT3R]

You can create ultra possession tactics without using the Retain Possession shout. And I don't plan on elaborating, the purpose of this thread is to explain how the Retain Possession shout should be used. It is not meant to be a thread to explain to people how to combine various elements for ultra possession.

I keep seeing failing tactics that all have Retain Possession as an instruction in common.

Tried it myself earlier in the year and my attacks were absolutely toothless, as it should, because my players needed to pass to feet and they didn't always have that passing option. That was all very clear even from just watching a few minutes of a match.

Queue a bunch of pointless long shots and intercepted passes. The only player still looking dangerous, was the AP/S, because he (with default Risky Passes Often) would still try them sometimes. The entire tactic relied on him to pick a pass, otherwise nothing happened.

I saw it as more of a hindrance than anything else and something that only 'worked' if you are either given LOTS of space or you aren't trying to do anything with the ball, ie late game situations.

[pedrosantos]

You can create ultra possession tactics without using the Retain Possession shout. And I don't plan on elaborating, the purpose of this thread is to explain how the Retain Possession shout should be used. It is not meant to be a thread to explain to people how to combine various elements for ultra possession.

That discussion will derail the thread and create a whole set of other discussions. This thread is about the proper use of the RP shout, and Herne was right not to go into details.

Indeed, I have abandoned the RP shout and I'm just using a combination of short passing and work the ball into the box and the results improved a lot. I'm dominating possession (55-60%) but its not the ultra possession stats I would like. Nevertheless, I just use the RP if I want my players to waste more time.

P.S. and using counter mentality

[thomit]

55-60 % is very good possession stats. In FM, that means you are keeping the ball much better than your opponent. Aiming for possession above that, you start to go into keep-the-ball-just-for-the-sake-of-it territory. Pointless possession. Of course, if you're a much better team than your opponent, possession stats can reach higher levels.

[pedrosantos]

55-60 % is very good possession stats. In FM, that means you are keeping the ball much better than your opponent. Aiming for possession above that, you start to go into keep-the-ball-just-for-the-sake-of-it territory. Pointless possession. Of course, if you're a much better team than your opponent, possession stats can reach higher levels.

yeah, its good and its even better considering that most of the first 45 minutes of the match it goes to 60-65%, but you know, the holy graal is to reach the 70-75 magic numbers, this, yes, it would mean dominating possession through positional playing and management of the ball (instead of management of space, both very legit, but personally I prefer to defend with the ball). I find a little odd that people consider dominating possession having the ball for 55% when thinking that in 90 minutes of the match those 55% only mean my team had the ball for 49 minutes. In previous FM editions I was very pleased with the RT shout, increased possession stats and good results, for this edition I had to make a choice and convince myself that either I would stick with the RT shout and get a lot of draws, some defeats and 1-0 victories or loose the shout, try to keep a good possession, get better results and assume once and for all that the RT shout is merely a defensive / waste time shout. Well, the choice was obvious

[Rashidi]

Who said its the holy grail? The holy grail is to win. I have hardly ever used the shout, because it's unnecessary for attacking tactics.

I have seen a lot of myths develop around FM and one of those myths is using RP to drive possession and attacking

[pedrosantos]

Who said its the holy grail? The holy grail is to win

Sure, but there are several ways to win, different paths can lead to scoring and avoid suffering, so replicating as faithful as possible a path is also an holy graal to achive.

[peterbolam78]

thanks for the explanation I assumed my players would do what they always do, but keep the ball more, did not occur to me it would lead to us being more safety orientated

[shirajzl]

I have seen a lot of myths develop around FM

It's only because people like you and Cleon have to do SI's job and explain game mechanics to the player base.

If game mechanics, in this instance TC + ME, were explained and transparent like in any other quality, complex, multi-layered video game, we wouldn't have long standing myths, some of which stretch to a decade.

[Pav_Makarov]

I frequently use Retain posession as a less extreme equivalent of "take a breather". Usually after a scored goal I just tend to calm things down and keep the posession. Of course if the opposition does not apply heavy pressing

[pedrosantos]

It's only because people like you and Cleon have to do SI's job and explain game mechanics to the player base.

If game mechanics, in this instance TC + ME, were explained and transparent like in any other quality, complex, multi-layered video game, we wouldn't have long standing myths, some of which stretch to a decade.

Exactly that

[Blue 4 Life]

It's only because people like you and Cleon have to do SI's job and explain game mechanics to the player base.

If game mechanics, in this instance TC + ME, were explained and transparent like in any other quality, complex, multi-layered video game, we wouldn't have long standing myths, some of which stretch to a decade.

Totally agree with this. Not sure what everyone else thought, but I thought retain possession was a shout to encourage your team to play the Arsenal/Barcelona way, with a patient build up followed by short, crisp passing to open up the defence. I had no idea your player would just "hoof it" if there was no "non risk" pass available. If you instructed your team to retain possession in real life, they wouldn't just hoof it aimlessly if there were no easy passes available, and your team would still try to open up the defence with a risky pass/cross when entering the final attacking third.

I appreciate this thread being created, but it has been created nearly a year too late. I would imagine pretty much everyone wanting to play short passing to try creating "total football" would select retain possession, but we have been kept in the dark about what the retain possession shout actually means.

[James9]

I also agree that SI needs to do more around explaining things in the game. For example I always thought Control Mentality help the team to control the game better. After reading through I cane to understand that control is a high risk mentality. I did not know that when you choose Control your team will play short at the back and more direct passing in the attack. So using playing out if defence TI with Control Mentality is useless because with control mentality play out defence is already going on under the hood.

[Rashidi]

I also agree that SI needs to do more around explaining things in the game. For example I always thought Control Mentality help the team to control the game better. After reading through I cane to understand that control is a high risk mentality. I did not know that when you choose Control your team will play short at the back and more direct passing in the attack. So using playing out if defence TI with Control Mentality is useless because with control mentality play out defence is already going on under the hood.

It's really simple, choose a mentality and a shape, then look at your teams passing on the tactical creator UI to figure out whats' going on. Like I have said before, there is only so much information they can put out there. You don't expect them to do a write up explaining the 10 different ways a Control Mentality can play, in fact there are probably more ways. It is obvious mentality becomes with Ultra Defensive and moves to Overload. That in itself tells you its a range going from conservative to risky. I mean...attacking football is obviously risky. That information is not entirely "under the hood" information.

Under the hood information is entirely different, that information is not freely available to anyone. Yes at times we do get frustrated, but I can understand their position too. Lets take Defensive Mentality - its low risk, but can also be an attacking tactic. How will people even be able to get their heads around that. So SI just say what they need to say. As players we can actually make it play in ways that even SI never imagined. And that I can assure you is fact. So I can understand why their information will always be limited. I do emphatise with people who wish there was more detailed information on shout strategies, but even here, SI do make tweaks, so vague is good to some extent.

[yonko]

It's interesting, I went and looked at Cleon's thread about The Art of Possession. He uses Retain Possession shout there, along with Lower Tempo but with Mixed Passing. I guess he did that because he also used Control Mentality. Another interesting note is he mostly used Support Duties with only a single Attack Duty on one of his Fullbacks.

I have a current save with Liverpool where I average around 60% possession without using Retain Possession or even Shorter Passing instructions. My possession is achieved through use of Mentality (Standard) + Team Shape (Fluid) + Roles & Duties (3 def, 1 att, rest are support and I use two playmaking roles) + Tactic Formation (4-2-3-1 wide). I don't use any PIs except for GK distribution instructions. My Team Instructions are mostly about winning the ball back and restricting opposition - Highest D-Line, Close Down Much More, Prevent Short GK Distribution, Mark Tighter, Get Stuck In and Play Out Of Defense. That's it....keep it simple.

[HUNT3R]

It's interesting, I went and looked at Cleon's thread about The Art of Possession. He uses Retain Possession shout there, along with Lower Tempo but with Mixed Passing. I guess he did that because he also used Control Mentality. Another interesting note is he mostly used Support Duties with only a single Attack Duty on one of his Fullbacks.

He could afford to ease off on the attack duties because of the aggressive Mentality. The multiple runners from deep is what makes his system 'work' as those players should be finding space for the pass to feet to be on AND, crucially, he chose a F9/S and AP/S - both roles will still play passes into space even with Retain Possession on.

[BallHogging]

1st Post. I was planning on signing up as it was, but upon browsing about.. this thread took my interest to read...and it shall break in my response virginity.

According to me your OP subheadings would have sections as follows:

"Explanation" = Does what it says on the tin...

"When to use it" = Always

But what I love about FM (I'm still on 15 btw, which was my first since CM01/02) is the journey of learning. It's a journey of complete frustration whilst trying to understand the game engine, the way the various TI's & PI's work with or against each other. My considerable hours and multiple saved games on FM15 have all been toward creating the perfect tactic for retaining possession whilst also creating chances. Those considerable hours have been accompanied by a massive dose of obscenity shouting each time anyone in the backline, gk included, smashes a ball upfield (yes goalkeeper...that's you...smashing a goal/drop kick into their final third when I'm not even playing with a striker you tw@). Think Mourinho face and reaction on the bench every time someone doesn't do exactly what he wants. That's me.

My every game has had its every minute watched in 2D. Highlights only is utter blasphemy...and anyone who plays this way should be punished by way of watching their next fixture's every kick....with the speed slider ALL the way to the left.

The (oxymoron alert) absolute vast majority of the time I have used Retain Possession for the entirety of every game. Contain. Short Passes. Play Out Of Defence. Work Ball Into Box. And if I'm feeling particularly autocratic...Be More Disciplined gets itself cracked open too.

I cannot stand not having the ball. Why? I would rather like to limit the amount of times the opposition wideboys(men) "opportunistically" whips one into a box containing 4 well placed defenders but also 1 late arriving... off the ball movement god of an individual who proceeds to slap one past my quality gk at his near post. It's criminal.

Now, that's not the only reason..but suffice to say I like having the ball. Wanting this however has led me through hours and hours of trial and error and replayed test games to understand what exactly goes on underneath the hood. I'm still perfecting things now and still scheduling packed pre-seasons to try out crazy new tactical concoctions.

My current save is Manchester United. Across the web I have encountered many a person's invincibles esq success story with United's 15/16 squad; so I myself am no God squeezing into 4th on the final day of my first season, having a second season heart attack sat in 5th at xmas chasing a leading top four 10 points in the distance...before eventually missing out on 2nd by goal difference.

And now here I am, 4 games into my 3rd season, strikerless....retaining the ball like a nasty ball hogging man, containing, dishing out to my full backs one lash for each random target-less Bebe style cross too many. By the book my constant usage of such tactics should have had me scoring like the record breaking Sunderland of 06/07, and before them....the record breaking Sunderland of 02/03, yes. But they've not done me too much harm...although I'd better win a title this year I think!

[pedrosantos]

It's really simple, choose a mentality and a shape, then look at your teams passing on the tactical creator UI to figure out whats' going on. Like I have said before, there is only so much information they can put out there. You don't expect them to do a write up explaining the 10 different ways a Control Mentality can play, in fact there are probably more ways. It is obvious mentality becomes with Ultra Defensive and moves to Overload. That in itself tells you its a range going from conservative to risky. I mean...attacking football is obviously risky. That information is not entirely "under the hood" information.

Under the hood information is entirely different, that information is not freely available to anyone. Yes at times we do get frustrated, but I can understand their position too. Lets take Defensive Mentality - its low risk, but can also be an attacking tactic. How will people even be able to get their heads around that. So SI just say what they need to say. As players we can actually make it play in ways that even SI never imagined. And that I can assure you is fact. So I can understand why their information will always be limited. I do emphatise with people who wish there was more detailed information on shout strategies, but even here, SI do make tweaks, so vague is good to some extent.

I think its not quite having more information inside FM, we can all reach out here and to other forums to get it and we have you guys to help. Its more the quality of the information, improved translations and so on

[Exius]

Why would you want to over complicate things? Your passing settings work hand in hand with mentality shape and width.

If you want to play short and pass into space, I can't even get my head around those two concepts.

I still don't get it why using these two TIs is too bad... If I want my team to play the shortest possible passes - I use Retain possession (shorter passes + less risky passes) which can harm my attacking potential. So, to maintain attacking options I can use either Pass into space (more risky passes) or Exploit the middle (higher mentality for middle players + more risky passes). Am I wrong? Isn't it how IRL tiki-taka works - Barcelona or Bayern can often pass the ball around maintaining possession and stretching the opposition defence and then, when the opportunity comes, slicing through defence with killer balls.

It's only because people like you and Cleon have to do SI's job and explain game mechanics to the player base.

If game mechanics, in this instance TC + ME, were explained and transparent like in any other quality, complex, multi-layered video game, we wouldn't have long standing myths, some of which stretch to a decade.

+100500 This is really what the game is missing all these years - clear explanation of available tactical options and instructions in terms of ME. Now situation is much better but still there is plenty of room to improve. Clear manual should be implemented within the game, not as a web-site, and it should be much more illustrative - screenshots explaining all the instructions, short videos explaining e.g. every PPM, etc.

[Dr. Hook]

I still don't get it why using these two TIs is too bad... If I want my team to play the shortest possible passes - I use Retain possession (shorter passes + less risky passes) which can harm my attacking potential. So, to maintain attacking options I can use either Pass into space (more risky passes) or Exploit the middle (higher mentality for middle players + more risky passes). Am I wrong? Isn't it how IRL tiki-taka works - Barcelona or Bayern can often pass the ball around maintaining possession and stretching the opposition defence and then, when the opportunity comes, slicing through defence with killer balls.

I can't speak for Rashidi, but I think he is suggesting that that is a long way around to something that can also have unintended consequences. In your case, why not just use shorter passing and leave it at that? Now you have shorter passing (and that is all you effect with that instruction) and risky passes remains in the "neutral" setting which is sometimes. Then it's done. Why stick on retain, then use another TI to mitigate the effects of the retain when one change to passing length accomplishes what you want?

[thomit]

I can't speak for Rashidi, but I think he is suggesting that that is a long way around to something that can also have unintended consequences. In your case, why not just use shorter passing and leave it at that? Now you have shorter passing (and that is all you effect with that instruction) and risky passes remains in the "neutral" setting which is sometimes. Then it's done. Why stick on retain, then use another TI to mitigate the effects of the retain when one change to passing length accomplishes what you want?

Unfortunately not. Shorter passing also narrows width and lowers tempo. If we're to believe the indicators in the team instructions screen. And perhaps we should in this case, because "shorter passing" has been like that for as long as I can remember. I say unfortunately, because I would much rather have such instructions independent of one another. SI thinks it's better to link them - I disagree. But that's another debate.

At least with "shorter passing" we can see what effects it has - indicators moving in the team or player instructions screens. Like they did when we had the tactical sliders. Or so we think, I should say - we can't trust the indicators 100% in their current state. Buggy, I've been told. The passing range indicators suggests that every player gets their passing range shortened - even the playmakers. I'm not sure that that is 100% correct.

[ianscousemac]

This shout takes the award for the most misunderstood child of the Tactical Creator.

Explanation

The Retain Possession shout was introduced into the game as a one stop way of encouraging a team to play keep ball. It works by reducing width, passing directness and most importantly reduces risky passes, and this is where people using this shout will stop reading. So I hope you continue.

Reducing Risky passes = Take Less Chances, in other words players are encouraged to not play through balls, this can also affect long diagonals. When this option kicks in a teams attacking efficiency is reduced drastically as the side looks to pass the ball sideways OR punt the ball when there is no good passing option available, and this is where Shape and Duty allocation works to exacerbate the problem. If you have a team and have made the crazy decision to have say 4 players in advanced attacking positions...say for example a 424 or a 4231 then EVEN if you have most of the players on support, you could find the isolated. That shout will tell your backline NOT to pass the ball to them using a risky pass.

So when you think about it, if the central midfielder in your team is not in a good position to receive the pass, then the ball gets hoofed.

WHEN TO USE IT

The Retain Possession shout is neither an attacking nor a defensive shout, it just tells the team not to bend over backwards to attack. However you could create a right royal mess with improper duty allocations. I treat this shout as a defensive shout when I want my team to 'waste time'. An ideal way of using this shout would be to use it with the right duty allocation. Lets take a 442 for example...lets say you have the majority of your team on Support and only one CF on A, then your team will do a great job of moving the ball around to keep possession. I have added this and explanations of all the other shouts into my guide. I am still writing it and doubt it will be ready soon. However it should be relevant for FM16 and any version after.

So for now please use this shout wisely.

Take care

from Mickey Mouse and Me.

ps> Mickey Mouse hates this shout

Good advice and I am looking forward to reading your guide.

[Dr. Hook]

Unfortunately not. Shorter passing also narrows width and lowers tempo. If we're to believe the indicators in the team instructions screen. I say unfortunately, because I would much rather have such instructions independent of one another. SI thinks it's better to link them - I disagree. But that's another debate.

At least with "shorter passing" we can see what effects it has - indicators moving in the team or player instructions screens. Or so we think, I should say - we can't trust the indicators 100% in their current state. The passing range indicators suggests that every player gets their passing range shortened - even the playmakers. I'm not sure that that is 100% correct.

As for the UI issues, right, but here is what I do know: retain possession shortens passing length and apparently narrows formation slightly. It used to slow tempo. Now it doesn't and that has been confirmed by the devs. So if part of the retain shout is to implement shorter passing, yet doesn't slow tempo, then I have to assume that tempo is not slowed by shorter passing. But that is the dark magic of the match engine: as someone pointed out the closing down appears to move when you choose shape, and that shouldn't happen and as far as I know closing down is NOT affected by shape. At any rate, for Exius, the point is still valid- why select team instructions in order to cancel parts of them out when the option to move one setting does the same thing. Whether shorter passing actually narrows width and slows tempo or not, if retain sets passing to shorter, it would still do the same thing whatever that thing is, so no need to select it and then more risky passes when he could just use shorter passing.

[thomit]

Oh I agree that there's very little point in issuing instructions that cancel each other out. But that happens a lot, I see it in every other tactic people use. And part of the blame for that is that people are often left in the dark as to what - in detail - instructions actually does. They don't know they're cancelling out anything. Untill some "guru" comes along and explains it all. That's ... poor. We should not have to be dependent on gurus in order to know what the instructions we are dishing out to our players actually consists of. Fully.

"I thought I was telling my players to this, I didn't know I was also telling them to do that as well. And apparently I told them to do this thing and at the same time I told them not to do it. I didn't know - or understand - half of what was coming out of my mouth pre match, I never do ... I'm so sorry".

There you have the FM manager in the post match press talk And who can blame him?

[yonko]

He could afford to ease off on the attack duties because of the aggressive Mentality. The multiple runners from deep is what makes his system 'work' as those players should be finding space for the pass to feet to be on AND, crucially, he chose a F9/S and AP/S - both roles will still play passes into space even with Retain Possession on.

I mentioned it mostly because of the combination of Mentality + Retain Possession + Lower Tempo. Not so much because of the roles.

[Dr. Hook]

That's ... poor.

Indeed it is. I have been advocating for a couple years now for changes (and others as well) and so remain hopeful that this sort of thing will get addressed. Several of us have pointed out various spots where this sort of confusion happens. I tell you, this forum would be a much better place if we didn't have to spend so much time trying to explain and/or speculate about what various things do- then we could all get on with talking tactics and trying various approaches with the knowledge that what we select in terms of shape, strategy, mentality, TI, PI have very clear definitions about what they do. Then again we might dream on for ages about it

[thomit]

It seems to me that SI after getting rid of the sliders made a conscious decision to be more ... vague about some of these things, to make tactics "more abstract" ... or something. The result being that we, as managers, don't know half of what we are telling our players to do, some times. A very poor decision by SI that, in my opinion. And no, I don't want the sliders back, but I do want to be able to know - 100% - what it is I am telling my players to do. It should be visible and visual, like the sliders managed quite well. The team and player instruction screens could be the place for it, but it hasn't been given the attention from SI that it sorely needs, yet.