Ross Ingersoll Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 do those go up and down or is the rating fixed at what it is ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Important matches can change during a player's career based on their match experience. I've had a core group of players develop into big match bottlers after lsoing a succession of play-off finals, their important match attributes just tanked to the point where failure when it matter the most was almost a self fulfilling prophecy. Not sure about consistency as I've never taken the time to assess it as any change that may happen would be more subtle but I do beleive it can also change based on a player's match performances over an extended period of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I have a player with very low stats in important matches.. Just wondering how the game reflects this in a match..? Does it cut down some attributes or how is this calculated..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I belive it primarily impacts the mental attributes & in particular decision making. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Consistency can improve, I've tracked it for several versions on my players. I've never seen it go down in that time, only up. I also can't say for sure but my gut feeling is it moves the most in the first 100 or so games for a player. Once past about 100 matches it doesn't seem to move much at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Ok, thanks.. Decisions take a big hit everytime there's something.. Wrong position etc. So I believe this is quite accurate in this case too.. My player has played very good until now, but the other two seasons we where a midtable team and now fighting for the title will probably give him some trouble then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Cougar2010 said: Consistency can improve, I've tracked it for several versions on my players. I've never seen it go down in that time, only up. I also can't say for sure but my gut feeling is it moves the most in the first 100 or so games for a player. Once past about 100 matches it doesn't seem to move much at all. This is great news to me aswell! Have tried to sign consistent players and they perform amazingly..! But have a few wit lack of consistensy so I hope this is true..! Do you believe it can also improve by tutoring..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Soninho said: This is great news to me aswell! Have tried to sign consistent players and they perform amazingly..! But have a few wit lack of consistensy so I hope this is true..! Do you believe it can also improve by tutoring..? I don't believe so, they need time on the pitch. I've generally only seen it improve by one step, very rarely two steps. So a slightly inconsistent player I've seen go neutral and from time to time I've seen them gain a slightly consistent tag but you aren't going to see a player go from inconsistent to consistent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Well.. My player got the yellow mark, but is very inconsistent imo.. Still a fan favourite since he have also saved our azzes quite a few times! Hopefully it will be better but think he's around 100 games so not getting my hopes up too much.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
santy001 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 14 hours ago, Barside said: Important matches can change during a player's career based on their match experience. I've had a core group of players develop into big match bottlers after lsoing a succession of play-off finals, their important match attributes just tanked to the point where failure when it matter the most was almost a self fulfilling prophecy. Not sure about consistency as I've never taken the time to assess it as any change that may happen would be more subtle but I do beleive it can also change based on a player's match performances over an extended period of time. From the information given to researchers, important matches doesn't change. I haven't been keeping too close an eye on it in my own saves though, just if this is the case it would be very interesting. Consistency has a bit of flex in it, but not an awful lot. Consistency works in conjunction with a lot of other stats, and doesn't affect physical stats though, so depending on the type of player and other aspects of their attribute spread both high and low consistency can have their influence weakened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I had players IM attribute change, (FM16) confirmed by checking the IGE. Could be a newgen only function or a bug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Ingersoll Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 I have a future save I had saved yearly until year 30 just to see how regens look in the future, I will compare some players both newgens and normal players to see. don't know why I didn't think of this before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Ingersoll Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 I just did a quick check of 2 normal players from 2017 and then 2030 and then 3 newgens from 2019 and 2030. hardly a large sample size. I use fluts skin which shows imp matches and consistency on profile page although his rating system isn't the same as the actual values but will also check in game editor. and before I'm asked, was default database and no editor was used at any point. as you can see from the small sample, the 2 nrmal real life players didn't really move but the new gens seemed to have moved in both ratings somewhat Spoiler Gabriel Jesus 10 (Im) 11(C) to 10 (IM) 12 (C) Anthony Martial 13 (Im) 12 (C) to 13 (IM) 13 (C) Joe White 8 (IM) 10 (C) to 9 (IM) 12 (C) Maximilian Borchert 14 (IM) 11 (C) to 14 (IM) 15 (C) Mate Tadic 10 (IM) 15 (C) to 11 (IM) 17 (C) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 This is great reading! In most cases the difference might not be big but there are some with significant improvements..! Does these "hidden stats" calculate in the players CA points..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Hidden attributes have no CA cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 9 hours ago, Barside said: Hidden attributes have no CA cost. Great! Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Seb Wassell Posted February 17, 2017 SI Staff Share Posted February 17, 2017 Can confirm that both Important Matches and Consistency can alter over time, along with the majority of hidden attributes (but not quite all). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Seb Wassell said: Can confirm that both Important Matches and Consistency can alter over time, along with the majority of hidden attributes (but not quite all). Thank you very much for clarification!! Find it a little bit strange that these stats don't have any CA cost, but I'll take it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurs08 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 12 hours ago, Soninho said: Thank you very much for clarification!! Find it a little bit strange that these stats don't have any CA cost, but I'll take it! I guess you can look at it as CA being raw footballing ability, whereas these are more similar to the personality attributes which can have a profound impact on performance without directly impacting the player's talent. It is also one of the elements which makes it harder to tell how well a player is likely to do without thorough scouting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Spurs08 said: I guess you can look at it as CA being raw footballing ability, whereas these are more similar to the personality attributes which can have a profound impact on performance without directly impacting the player's talent. It is also one of the elements which makes it harder to tell how well a player is likely to do without thorough scouting. In some ways I think it should be related with PA and CA but don't know how that would be best implemented.. Example is a high PA player is more likely to improve personality, but like you said, those things aren't really related.. Is there something that determines how much a players hidden stats can improve..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurs08 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 13 hours ago, Soninho said: In some ways I think it should be related with PA and CA but don't know how that would be best implemented.. Example is a high PA player is more likely to improve personality, but like you said, those things aren't really related.. Is there something that determines how much a players hidden stats can improve..? I believe it's just very unlikely that a player with low hidden stats will ever be able to improve them enough to reach the top end of the scale since they do change very slowly. You can get a player who hates important matches eventually to be okay in them, but he's never going to be amazing either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 10 hours ago, Spurs08 said: I believe it's just very unlikely that a player with low hidden stats will ever be able to improve them enough to reach the top end of the scale since they do change very slowly. You can get a player who hates important matches eventually to be okay in them, but he's never going to be amazing either. Yeah, you're quite right there..! Although you see a couple of questionable personalities irl in the top, they usually don't last long there.. In game I actually have a player that dreads important matches. Complete red and have not improved over a couple of seasons.. But.. He has 2 consecutive seasons with an average rating of around 9..! He's loved by the fans and since he got the highest leadership attribute I actually made the bold decision to make him captain..! Have a great backup for him now though in case he crashes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacaw Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 From what I've seen, you can raise these attributes 3, maybe 4 points from prospect to maxed potential. It's not massive, but certainly helps in some case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Tutoring helps improving these. Still the tutor must have greater attributes than the beneficiary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 8 hours ago, Haiku said: Tutoring helps improving these. Still the tutor must have greater attributes than the beneficiary. Tutoring does not help to improve Consistency or Big Matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, herne79 said: Tutoring does not help to improve Consistency or Big Matches. Mentoring probably? It's stupid if it doesn't help really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Seb Wassell Posted February 20, 2017 SI Staff Share Posted February 20, 2017 On 17/02/2017 at 21:12, Soninho said: Thank you very much for clarification!! Find it a little bit strange that these stats don't have any CA cost, but I'll take it! Think of CA/PA as "footballing" ability. You can have great raw talent (or potential) but lack the personality (hidden attributes) to translate that into footballing returns (either consistently or even ever). If all hidden attributes were linked to CA/PA it would be tough to model someone such as Balotelli. Where Consistency and Important Matches are concerned they actually modify a player's CA (although not every attribute is affected) on a per match basis depending on the scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I'm VERY surprised to learn consistency doesn't cost any CA, because consistent players outperform inconsistent players enormously in the game overall! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HemHat Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 35 minutes ago, noikeee said: I'm VERY surprised to learn consistency doesn't cost any CA, because consistent players outperform inconsistent players enormously in the game overall! Especially as footdedness takes up ca and a two footed player is clearly better than a one footed player Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 And I'd rather have a consistent player over a two footed player for most positions.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristianmehl Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 20/2/2017 at 10:05, herne79 said: Tutoring does not help to improve Consistency or Big Matches. But imp. matches and consistency is tied to the players personality, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Seb Wassell Posted February 24, 2017 SI Staff Share Posted February 24, 2017 Consistency is a modifier on CA so it can't really count towards CA itself. Eg. a 20 Consistency player will play to his CA much more often than a 10 Consistency player. For two players with close CA the much more consistent performer would often perform on matchday to a higher CA than the less consistent performer, as such you could perceive him as being the better player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 42 minutes ago, Kristianmehl said: But imp. matches and consistency is tied to the players personality, isn't it? No, they are hidden attributes but they don't contribute towards personality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchWinner Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 20 hours ago, Kristianmehl said: But imp. matches and consistency is tied to the players personality, isn't it? Yeah but not every personality trait can be learned. For example you can't make a player more adaptable to living in another country just by tutoring - it's not something that could be learnable irl. I wish you could learn consistency though. One of my best FM 2015 games went stale because 90% of the best newgens coming through had appalling consistency, so there were hardly any players worth buying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 On 24/02/2017 at 13:18, noikeee said: I'm VERY surprised to learn consistency doesn't cost any CA, because consistent players outperform inconsistent players enormously in the game overall! It kinda makes sense that it does not. A player can be average as a player because he does not have the natural talent, but is is always consistently playing the same level. Likewise, you have examples of players with loads of talent but who cannot play like that consistently. It is what (to steal the example above) separates Balotelli from Ronaldo, for example. I agree that consistent players are good to have around a team. My current first choice left winger is not the greatest in terms of CA (his stats are good, but not great). But I know if I play him all season he will be good for at least 15 assists and perhaps 10 goals over the course of that season. It is a trade off, because I have a couple of players who can rip a team apart on their day, but when it is not there day there is no point having them on the pitch. My consistent player is never going to destroy a team by himself, but he is also probably never going to play an absolutely crap game. The holy grail is a talented player with high consistency, and they are rare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 On 24/02/2017 at 14:08, Seb Wassell said: Consistency is a modifier on CA so it can't really count towards CA itself. Eg. a 20 Consistency player will play to his CA much more often than a 10 Consistency player. For two players with close CA the much more consistent performer would often perform on matchday to a higher CA than the less consistent performer, as such you could perceive him as being the better player. Ok, I get it and it makes sense. However I am still worried about one thing. Let me see if I can explain it simply, and you can refrain from replying if you feel this would give too much away about the internal workings of the game, of course. As far as I understand CA is used by the AI algorithms as the measure of how good a player is, when it is evaluating possible signings, or doing squad management decisions. I think (and hope) the AI doesn't access CA directly, but rather by a function of how good the scout/manager/staff member is at his JCA attribute. Let's call this "perceived CA". I hope consistency, at least when accessed by good scouts and managers, is given a bloody big weighting when calculating this "perceived CA". A player with a consistency of 1 and a CA of 150 will not perform anywhere near 150 on average, and as such the AI shouldn't look at him as a 150 CA player, his perceived CA should be considerably lower. If this isn't taken into account.... I'm just going to start hiring ONLY consistent players, and massively outperform the AI on the transfer market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 6 hours ago, noikeee said: Ok, I get it and it makes sense. However I am still worried about one thing. Let me see if I can explain it simply, and you can refrain from replying if you feel this would give too much away about the internal workings of the game, of course. As far as I understand CA is used by the AI algorithms as the measure of how good a player is, when it is evaluating possible signings, or doing squad management decisions. I think (and hope) the AI doesn't access CA directly, but rather by a function of how good the scout/manager/staff member is at his JCA attribute. Let's call this "perceived CA". I hope consistency, at least when accessed by good scouts and managers, is given a bloody big weighting when calculating this "perceived CA". A player with a consistency of 1 and a CA of 150 will not perform anywhere near 150 on average, and as such the AI shouldn't look at him as a 150 CA player, his perceived CA should be considerably lower. If this isn't taken into account.... I'm just going to start hiring ONLY consistent players, and massively outperform the AI on the transfer market. scouts for ai teams perform the same way as yours do. the ai manger, i assume, has an insight in scout report and "knows" if player is consistent or not. then he will judge, like you would, if the trade off is good enough. i have no knowledge if the above is really true mind you. but any other way wouldn't make sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 8 hours ago, MBarbaric said: scouts for ai teams perform the same way as yours do. the ai manger, i assume, has an insight in scout report and "knows" if player is consistent or not. then he will judge, like you would, if the trade off is good enough. i have no knowledge if the above is really true mind you. but any other way wouldn't make sense. One of the last feature ideas I logged shortly before leaving SI was to introduce a system that could help AI managers use the hidden attribute information when assessing a player, at that time they had no awareness of the hidden attributes which meant you would have a decision where a 155CA player with a rating of 5 for consistency & important matches was seen as a better opton than a 145CA player with 20 for the same hidden attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Barside said: One of the last feature ideas I logged shortly before leaving SI was to introduce a system that could help AI managers use the hidden attribute information when assessing a player, at that time they had no awareness of the hidden attributes which meant you would have a decision where a 155CA player with a rating of 5 for consistency & important matches was seen as a better opton than a 145CA player with 20 for the same hidden attributes. you should have posted a spoiler alert there ;D i really hate to hear it is so simplistic as the character of player is huge part in decision making when managers make a decision to buy or not a player. in fact, there should be a tendency in the game with managers who exclusively try to setup an industrious squad (bielsa). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 The last FM I worked on was 15 therefore the dev team could have implemented my ideas for FM17 & even expanded on them to produce that level of behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Barside said: The last FM I worked on was 15 therefore the dev team could have implemented my ideas for FM17 & even expanded on them to produce that level of behaviour. thanks mate, i'll asume that they did and procede as nothing happened Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 On 25 februari 2017 at 19:38, noikeee said: Ok, I get it and it makes sense. However I am still worried about one thing. Let me see if I can explain it simply, and you can refrain from replying if you feel this would give too much away about the internal workings of the game, of course. As far as I understand CA is used by the AI algorithms as the measure of how good a player is, when it is evaluating possible signings, or doing squad management decisions. I think (and hope) the AI doesn't access CA directly, but rather by a function of how good the scout/manager/staff member is at his JCA attribute. Let's call this "perceived CA". I hope consistency, at least when accessed by good scouts and managers, is given a bloody big weighting when calculating this "perceived CA". A player with a consistency of 1 and a CA of 150 will not perform anywhere near 150 on average, and as such the AI shouldn't look at him as a 150 CA player, his perceived CA should be considerably lower. If this isn't taken into account.... I'm just going to start hiring ONLY consistent players, and massively outperform the AI on the transfer market. I also understand this, and agree with your earlier post. And like I wrote earlier in this thread these "modifiers" are very important imo and should count towards something more than just randomness (or what determines the gain/loss). A consistent player is like finding gold to me! Have had great experiences with consistent players! The important match attribute is not that gamechanging imo.. Have had both complete green and red, and throughout a whole season it doesn't have that much of an impact from my experiences.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnuscarlsen Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Maybe saying "pick up where you left off" (as an individual teamtalk before a match) a lot would help to increase consistency?.. I don't know, but it would make sense IMO. Because you're demanding a player to be more consistent. And I know for a fact that things that you do as a manager can improve attributes. For instance fining a player with a match rating of 6.4 or below, can often improve their workrate and determination by a whole point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauly15 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 On 18/02/2017 at 00:53, Seb Wassell said: Can confirm that both Important Matches and Consistency can alter over time, along with the majority of hidden attributes (but not quite all). Hi Seb, Is it related to actually playing in important matches, or is it just time? Also... mentoring? Is De Ligt spreading his awful important matches score to my whole defence? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miravlix Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I've always thought Consistency, was if you could get a player to consistently play well, this can, with a lot of luck, be done through team talks. Might take savescummung through, as you just can't write team talk guides, one match you can get 8-9+ scores from the team with a passionate WIN THIS MATCH or you might end up with a 5.x score instead. It's just not possible to know how the team will react as we get no real feedback on how ready the team is to play a match and have to guess. Okay, this is a Darby for silverware match, so I guess they are highly fired up and might be suffering from some pressure issues, unless I picked something wrong in the press conference and they are super complacent and unmotivated. Big Matches is about doing well in big matches, so that one can be really hard to deal with as the player by him self is naturally going to play badly, but I think the right thing to do is reduce pressure on the player, even going as far as saying no pressure and even if he is a total mess on the pitch, don't go to hard on him after. It's really easy to make them afraid of big matches, just be a total idiot and yell at them when they fail. All in all being aggressive and hard on the team from failing is mostly a bad idea. It's never the players fault that you didn't manage them well and you aren't going to get better performance in the next match due to it. (Half time is the exception though, you can usually get something out of harder talks, though I find inspiring them to be way better.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Seb Wassell Posted November 26, 2018 SI Staff Share Posted November 26, 2018 On 24/11/2018 at 08:19, pauly15 said: Hi Seb, Is it related to actually playing in important matches, or is it just time? Both, but mostly playing in important matches. On 24/11/2018 at 08:19, pauly15 said: Also... mentoring? Is De Ligt spreading his awful important matches score to my whole defence? No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorianAlbert9 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 I think important match should be the most decisive attribute, while (at least in the past edition, i don't test in the last one) it seems to impact very little. It is the main difference between great players that can smash normal games (like Messi, CR7, Ronaldinho) and truly game-changer (Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo9, Cruijff, Puskas etc...). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicz Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 On 17/02/2017 at 13:53, Seb Wassell said: Can confirm that both Important Matches and Consistency can alter over time, along with the majority of hidden attributes (but not quite all). Thanks for the explanation on consistency, could you provide a similar explaination of important matches? Much appreciated. Edit: I’ve just seen you say it’s a CA modifier, are there specific attribute important matches affect or just all of them? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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