New player roles for FM18

[Jyuan83]

After seeing the latest FM18 teaser, i cannot help but get excited about the possibility of new player roles for the upcoming editionof fm. The first guy being interviewed mentioned something about new tactical innovations and new player roles. Right off the top of my head i am thinking of roles like the central winger, mezzala(half-winger, a term used in italian football) and attacking centre-back. Any other role you guys are thinking off after seeing the video?

[kandersson]

I'd expect new generic roles for strikers and AMR/L most of all.

[Jyuan83]

Well from the latest scouting video we have:

1.inverted winger-no idea why we have this when a tweaked WM with cut inside PI would suffice.

2. Mezzala-depending on how you see this role, it could be the iniesta role to go from central to wide areas as a central midfielder or as a sort of deep-lying raumdeuter who exploits central areas from out wide. 

3.carrilero-a more complete “complete wingback?”

4. Segundo volante-perhaps another BBM variation?

[Scoham]

30 minutes ago, Jyuan83 said:

Well from the latest scouting video we have:

1.inverted winger-no idea why we have this when a tweaked WM with cut inside PI would suffice.

2. Mezzala-depending on how you see this role, it could be the iniesta role to go from central to wide areas as a central midfielder or as a sort of deep-lying raumdeuter who exploits central areas from out wide. 

3.carrilero-a more complete “complete wingback?”

4. Segundo volante-perhaps another BBM variation?

1. Because roles are used by the AI. It also allows researchers to set managers tactics more accurately.

[AFCBeer]

I'm not familiar with these terms but a role I do see a lot of IRL is similar to a DLP(d) but who positions himself with the ball just in front of the space a full back would usually occupy. It's used by teams who like to build from the back allowing the actual full back to push on. 

I suppose what I'm describing is a half back from the DMLC / DMRC positions but it's not really a viable option in current FM as who would realistically play 3 DM's in same strata?

[kpsia518]

9 hours ago, Jyuan83 said:

Well from the latest scouting video we have:

1.inverted winger-no idea why we have this when a tweaked WM with cut inside PI would suffice.

2. Mezzala-depending on how you see this role, it could be the iniesta role to go from central to wide areas as a central midfielder or as a sort of deep-lying raumdeuter who exploits central areas from out wide. 

3.carrilero-a more complete “complete wingback?”

4. Segundo volante-perhaps another BBM variation?

Quote

 

Mezzala

A mezzala, or a half-winger, is a player who is positioned on the wing despite not really possessing the typical attributes of a winger. His idiosyncratic talents lead him to shift from his position into other parts of the pitch where his contribution may be more substantial. This means orbiting more centrally or offering a greater offensive slant at the expense of coverage - seldom is a mezzala deployed for defensive purposes. This is not a ‘classical’ role and it is usually reserved for players who are difficult to categorise tactically or who cannot be employed in their natural position (for instance, an SP being placed on the wing due to an excess of players already available in his role). Alternatively, one of the forwards in a typical 4-3-3 formation can be assigned a role as a mezzala when the midfielders do not suffice to provide coverage. Gianni Rivera and Gianfranco Zola have been deployed as half-wingers in the past.

 

 

[MBarbaric]

all this mixing of languages and roles is going to be really confusing. mezz'ala, literally translated means a half wing. It is not even a role but a position. It simply means the player is positioned between the winger and the central midfielder. so, any player that plays on the side of CM-CM-CM formation is a "mezz'ala". 

just like trequartista literally means a player that plays in three quarters of the field (central attacking midfielder or CAM). it is simply a positional reference not necessarily a role. Different coaches will give different roles to this positions. don't know why SI has to complicate stuff when there's no need. 

 

[MBarbaric]

22 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

 

Mezzala

A mezzala, or a half-winger, is a player who is positioned on the wing despite not really possessing the typical attributes of a winger. His idiosyncratic talents lead him to shift from his position into other parts of the pitch where his contribution may be more substantial. This means orbiting more centrally or offering a greater offensive slant at the expense of coverage - seldom is a mezzala deployed for defensive purposes. This is not a ‘classical’ role and it is usually reserved for players who are difficult to categorise tactically or who cannot be employed in their natural position (for instance, an SP being placed on the wing due to an excess of players already available in his role). Alternatively, one of the forwards in a typical 4-3-3 formation can be assigned a role as a mezzala when the midfielders do not suffice to provide coverage. Gianni Rivera and Gianfranco Zola have been deployed as half-wingers in the past.

what is the source of this info?

[HUNT3R]

I don't mind the names (even though I don't know most of them) as long as the description and PIs give me a good idea of what the roles is meant to do. Role names are just that, names for preset instructions.

[kpsia518]

9 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

what is the source of this info?

google

& google translate :

Quote

Segundo Volante (Second Steering Wheel)

so Segundo Volante = 2nd playmaker ?

 

[kpsia518]

https://www.soccercoachweekly.net/other/inverted-winger/

inverted winger

Quote

Inverted Winger

by Dave Clarke in Other, Tactics

If a left-footed wide player plays on the right wing, or a right-footed player plays on the left wing, he is described as an inverted winger.

For example, Bayern Munich has Frank Ribery (right‑footed player on the left wing) and Arjen Robben (left-footed player on the right wing) excelling in these positions.

Teams use inverted wingers to come inside and off the line to combine with team mates.

Often coaches will use overlapping full backs on the outside to add extra players to the team’s attack, and to maintain the team’s width as the inverted winger comes inside.

 

[kpsia518]

carrilero = racer

so carrilero = racer wingback.

he job is racing with full speed down the line at the wing

http://diarioam.es/blog/2016/03/26/el-volante-de-banda-o-carrilero-cronica-diario-am-26032016/

 

 

[MBarbaric]

23 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

google

& google translate :

so Segundo Volante = 2nd playmaker ?

 

google isn't a source... i meant, who wrote that nonsense

[kpsia518]

1 minute ago, MBarbaric said:

google isn't a source... i meant, who wrote that nonsense

http://www.footballitaliano.co.uk/p6_66_708_understanding-italian-football-part-3-1-terminology-tactical-deployment.html

Understanding Italian football part 3.1 - Terminology - Tactical deployment

By Andrea Tallarita
Wednesday 04 November 2009

 

[Sussex Hammer]

A more generic basic striker role is one that's needed bar that roles that actually work properly should be the goal rather than adding a load of others.

[MBarbaric]

12 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

http://www.footballitaliano.co.uk/p6_66_708_understanding-italian-football-part-3-1-terminology-tactical-deployment.html

Understanding Italian football part 3.1 - Terminology - Tactical deployment

By Andrea Tallarita
Wednesday 04 November 2009

 

this is the most comprehensive explanation i could find.

http://www.allfootball.it/blog/scouting-larte-di-scegliere/7-4-2016/calcio-e-scouting-la-mezzala

[themadsheep2001]

39 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

google

& google translate :

so Segundo Volante = 2nd playmaker ?

 

Should be a DM who drives from deep to attack the opposition area.

Like a deep Box to Box mid.

In theory anyway (Think Sami Khedira for Germany)

[ilkork]

51 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

all this mixing of languages and roles is going to be really confusing.

It is, but tbh I don't mind. I mean, I haven't even used the trequartista in any fm.
I prefer my old fashioned AP who has the "Shoot Less Often" locked for some reason .

[macca72]

A box to box DM would be my favourite.

[themadsheep2001]

39 minutes ago, macca72 said:

A box to box DM would be my favourite.

If SI have covered the real life role in the position and way I hope, its the perfect role to link defence and attack in a 4-2-3-1 deep (Anyone wanting to copy Bayern or Germany 4-2-3-1)

Just realised I said Khedira as an example. The truly obvious German example should have been Bastian Schweinsteiger

[Artin]

generic roles for attacking midfielders would be great.

i don't want a winger or an IF because in this game, 9 times out of 10 they'll lose the ball if they try to take a defender on and these two have the "dribble more" instructions on by default

[Bobby_Zamora]

Segundo volante has no literal translation that relates to a playmaker... The most literal translation would be 'second defensive midfielder'

In Brazil, we call the defensive mid who is ahead of the defense, with more defensive duties, as the 'first' defensive midfielder, or 'primeiro volante'. The one that supports the attack a bit more and sees more of the ball coming from a defensive zone of the mid is (loosely) called the 'segundo volante'. 

[Jean0987654321]

2 hours ago, Bobby_Zamora said:

Segundo volante has no literal translation that relates to a playmaker... The most literal translation would be 'second defensive midfielder'

In Brazil, we call the defensive mid who is ahead of the defense, with more defensive duties, as the 'first' defensive midfielder, or 'primeiro volante'. The one that supports the attack a bit more and sees more of the ball coming from a defensive zone of the mid is (loosely) called the 'segundo volante'. 

So like Lucas Silva and Paulinho?

[Bobby_Zamora]

Paulinho, yes. Lucas Silva is hardly a player these days

[AFCBeer]

I'm not a big fan of having these foreign language versions of what are very similar roles. To be clear, roles from non-English football cultures abosolutely need to be included in FM, but not very similar interpretations of essentially the very same role. The precise tweaks should be down to PI's, and, as I emphasise repeatedly on the tactics forums, PPM's and player attributes themselves. 

However, if I am allowed to slightly hijack this thread with another role I feel is important in modern football, it is the roaming centre forward-winger. 

If you remember Euro 2016, Portugal played on paper a 4-4-2. More unusual than the formation itself was the actual striker roles played by Nani and Ronaldo. Instead of offering a focal point to the attack, both would drift wide into the half spaces. Kind of like a reverse raumdeuter. 

I would see this role as different to the Treqartista, which plays deeper and really should only be available from the AM strata. Whatever, you want to call my proposed role, it would be useful in formations like the Diamond, or 4-1-3-2, 4-3-1-2 and even 3-4-1-2 variations where you need intelligent players to give width from central areas. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

all this mixing of languages and roles is going to be really confusing. mezz'ala, literally translated means a half wing. It is not even a role but a position. It simply means the player is positioned between the winger and the central midfielder. so, any player that plays on the side of CM-CM-CM formation is a "mezz'ala". 

just like trequartista literally means a player that plays in three quarters of the field (central attacking midfielder or CAM). it is simply a positional reference not necessarily a role. Different coaches will give different roles to this positions. don't know why SI has to complicate stuff when there's no need.

 

The mixing of languages looks particularly weird if you yourself speak several. It's like, ho hum, why are they doing this?

 

I accept that there's a bit of a conundrum here: they want to include all these different roles, which is a good thing. However, calling them by names culled from various languages looks simply awkward, which is a bad thing. However, inventing new English names that no one's ever heard of would also confuse players, which would, again, be a bad thing.

 

The fact is, there is no commonly accepted English term for some of these roles. Just like there is no joie de vivre in the English language.

[MBarbaric]

I guess it is one of those lose-lose situations really. however, I found it strange SI took this route with essentially mixing up positions and roles and adding to the confusion. mezz'ala is a perfect example. it is position on the field but to SI it is a role. However, in reality, you have few types of these positions.

more defensive and attacking version and probably something in between. So which one is it going to be in the game? The same goes for trequartista which is just a player in the hole, an ordinary CAM. 

what distinguishes all these positions is the type of movement they make during the offensive phase.

Off the ball, a mezz'ala (or any other position) can move vertically, horizontally or both which then makes it a roaming player. 

On the ball, he can look for through balls/play safe, run with ball, cross...

To make the roles more lifelike, SI should really concentrate on allowing the freedom of movement for each position so the user can decide where he wants his player to move when the team is in possession. 

[westy8chimp]

12 hours ago, AFCBeer said:

Treqartista, which plays deeper and really should only be available from the AM strata

100% the role literally means 3rd quarter (the AMC strata) and should have far more horizontal movement than it currently does.

I'd like to see the old fashioned 'free role' come back. Someone like Bergkamp just roamed the whole of the opposition half horizontal and vertical to find space, create and score. Messi to some extent now - though in a 3 is limited to the right and central areas... but does come very deep and very wide whilst also ending up in the 6 yard box. I find inside forward or DLF far too restrictive.

18 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

Off the ball, a mezz'ala (or any other position) can move vertically, horizontally or both which then makes it a roaming player. 

On the ball, he can look for through balls/play safe, run with ball, cross...

To make the roles more lifelike, SI should really concentrate on allowing the freedom of movement for each position so the user can decide where he wants his player to move when the team is in possession

Mezz'ala if implemented correctly will be a great addition. Like a roaming cm support with move into channels, but has that ability to get wider and cross the ball as well.

Segundo Volante as well ... will have under the hood coding to emphasise his forward link play ... rather than just a DMs with 'get further forward'

Tactic release coming later... it would be great if there were some more PIs to choose from (hard coded into the new roles) and therefore as with your second point, available to start from a bog standard CMs and add your own mixture of instructions.

 

[themadsheep2001]

The Segundo Volante (if done right) is definitely a role that cannot currently be replicated well in FM currently, so that would very much be a unique new role.

As would the movement of the Carillero (sp), again if done properly

[pats]

2 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

I guess it is one of those lose-lose situations really. however, I found it strange SI took this route with essentially mixing up positions and roles and adding to the confusion. mezz'ala is a perfect example. it is position on the field but to SI it is a role. However, in reality, you have few types of these positions.

more defensive and attacking version and probably something in between. So which one is it going to be in the game? The same goes for trequartista which is just a player in the hole, an ordinary CAM. 

what distinguishes all these positions is the type of movement they make during the offensive phase.

Off the ball, a mezz'ala (or any other position) can move vertically, horizontally or both which then makes it a roaming player. 

On the ball, he can look for through balls/play safe, run with ball, cross...

To make the roles more lifelike, SI should really concentrate on allowing the freedom of movement for each position so the user can decide where he wants his player to move when the team is in possession. 

What about the defensive phase for a mezz'ala? Will he defend the central zones, half spaces or wide zones?

[herne79]

20 minutes ago, pats said:

What about the defensive phase for a mezz'ala? Will he defend the central zones, half spaces or wide zones?

We don't know.  Everything FM related is pure speculation at the moment.

[MBarbaric]

38 minutes ago, pats said:

What about the defensive phase for a mezz'ala? Will he defend the central zones, half spaces or wide zones?

 

17 minutes ago, herne79 said:

We don't know.  Everything FM related is pure speculation at the moment.

In essence, as Herne said.

I didn't mention the defensive phase on purpose. The defensive phase would need a similar but separate setup that we have for offensive phase. till now the defensive phase is about 95% automatic and hardcoded with minimal input from the player. 

the defensive phase is less creative part of football and mezz'ala, or any other position in the team, should be completely detached from offensive instructions simply following the zonal marking. the only choice a player should have is to orient the defence towards the space or a man within zonal marking.  additional choice of strict man marking should be available to the player if he wants to specifically track an opposition player in certain zones or all over the pitch.

intensive high pressing should be part of the offensive phase. will be interesting to see the following tactics video

[brightonrock]

I think the new roles are the most exciting thing so far - the scouting overhaul looks to be a sensible and realistic evolution to that feature, and I am reserving judgement on dynamics.

IMO the two tactical things that have been difficult to replicate in FM12-17 are defensive shape/tracking back of forward players, and lateral movement by central players.

If you're playing a winger at MR/L, I tend to find their starting position is a little too deep when moving into the attacking phase - they may get a few assists if they're a decent crosser of the ball, but they don't often score as they're releasing the ball before they get close to the box. However, playing them as an AMR/L has the opposite effect - they join your central striker or attacking midfielders in and around the box, but leave a full back very isolated and rarely track back much beyond the half way line when defending.

Now possibly this is the classic 'it's your tactics' - I've tried various combinations of MR/L with Attack mentality and get further forward, but all of this seems to kick in when they have the ball themself, rather than the moment a BWM wins possession. Equally giving the AMR/L a more neutral or defensive roles or PIs means they don't play as assertively in the final 3rd.

Secondly, I find it difficult to get my central midfielders to track laterally - if I have a full/wing back getting forward on the overlap, I want a defensive minded central midfielder to cover that gap, or at least be aware of the space and ready to cover, in the event we lose possession and the opposition launch a counter-attack down the flank. The BWM/BBM's tend to cover a lot of ground up and down the pitch, but largely stay in the central 3rd - so a counter attack usually ends with a centre half being dragged over to close down a rampaging winger, leaving space in the middle for opposition strikers for a tap in from a cross or cut-back.

Having more flexibility here will be a big win IMO - as I understand it, this could be achieved using the carrilero ("shuttler") and segundo volante (essentially a half back with stopper mentality who rushes out from deep into midfield or out wide to make tackles).

I hope the tornante ("returner") makes an appearance - a winger who tracks back - as this will be key to the way I like to play. IRL my team, Brighton, play this way - our wingers are expected to get back and help out the full back completely, often even filling in as an auxillary FB, allowing the actual FB to tuck in and add another body to our box in defence. Mourinho also plays this way with Man Utd, asking Rashford/Mata to track back and help out, whilst simultaneously having the awareness and work rate to drive forward quickly in the transition, as soon as possession is regained.

Fingers crossed...

[sevra]

All these "roles" issues started from the beginning when SI was trying to make individual tactic settings easy to understand and carry out, now it's getting more and more complicated... Why not just leave all the individual settings available for players' adjustments, like in the very early FM versions? So the players can create every kind of roles IRL or even not IRL as they would like to.

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, sevra said:

All these "roles" issues started from the beginning when SI was trying to make individual tactic settings easy to understand and carry out, now it's getting more and more complicated... Why not just leave all the individual settings available for players' adjustments, like in the very early FM versions? So the players can create every kind of roles IRL or even not IRL as they would like to.

Because most users had no idea what some of the sliders did or how to create the roles they wanted. Now it has moved onto football terminology which is easier to understand.

Also, this is helping the AI create tactics too. And the transfer module when the AI looks for players to perform in a specific role and duty for them. And the scouting module shows us at a glance that a player is suited to x role(s). Everything has moved forward a lot since sliders.

Creating anything with millions of slider combinations gave so many opportunities to exploit the ME as you just can't test against multiple positions for all the millions of combinations. It's made the ME easier to balance then too. And to give us hardcoded movement like the Half-back or Inverted Wingback has.

[Guest El Payaso]

7 minutes ago, brightonrock said:

If you're playing a winger at MR/L, I tend to find their starting position is a little too deep when moving into the attacking phase - they may get a few assists if they're a decent crosser of the ball, but they don't often score as they're releasing the ball before they get close to the box. However, playing them as an AMR/L has the opposite effect - they join your central striker or attacking midfielders in and around the box, but leave a full back very isolated and rarely track back much beyond the half way line when defending.

I've found it quite easy to even make the MR/ML to be the main goalscorer of the team and in Finland I had my MR scoring more than goal per game for half of the season even though the player was only a decent player for the league. Full back falling asleep when a through ball or cross is played is one of the main sources of goals on FM so it's not a surprise that it is fairly easy to make those positions score. 

[Bunkerossian]

4 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

 

The mixing of languages looks particularly weird if you yourself speak several. It's like, ho hum, why are they doing this?

 

I accept that there's a bit of a conundrum here: they want to include all these different roles, which is a good thing. However, calling them by names culled from various languages looks simply awkward, which is a bad thing. However, inventing new English names that no one's ever heard of would also confuse players, which would, again, be a bad thing.

 

The fact is, there is no commonly accepted English term for some of these roles. Just like there is no joie de vivre in the English language.

I have made a suggestion thread, with possible English names for the new roles.

[Jonny2J]

Not a role but finally being able to get your centre backs to bring the ball out of defence has been very much needed.

[kpsia518]

& this is official :

DLP+BWM+B2B

 

 

 

Robben role,in MRL position.

[Jean0987654321]

That Carreliaro role is gonna be key for me to emulate Simeone tactics in fm18

 

and also hoping that those huge gaps in the midfield is fixed

[sevra]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

Because most users had no idea what some of the sliders did or how to create the roles they wanted. Now it has moved onto football terminology which is easier to understand.

Also, this is helping the AI create tactics too. And the transfer module when the AI looks for players to perform in a specific role and duty for them. And the scouting module shows us at a glance that a player is suited to x role(s). Everything has moved forward a lot since sliders.

Creating anything with millions of slider combinations gave so many opportunities to exploit the ME as you just can't test against multiple positions for all the millions of combinations. It's made the ME easier to balance then too. And to give us hardcoded movement like the Half-back or Inverted Wingback has.

Easier to adapt and balance, while less room and possibility to creat something or make small adjustments, which is the reason why more and more roles are added to the system, making it back to be complicated yet again. It's about finding the balance between concise and creative freedom and realness, the roles system and the sliders system are equivalence from this point of view. Ultimately, IRL the roles are just "outcomes" of detailed instructions and players' tendencies, that's why I prefer the old-fashion tactical panel. We know how the roles are executed because the game provides a great deal of hints, the same can also be done with the sliders system.

[kpsia518]

30 minutes ago, Jean0987654321 said:

That Carreliaro role is gonna be key for me to emulate Simeone tactics in fm18

 

and also hoping that those huge gaps in the midfield is fixed

that means this chould happen :

 

[MBarbaric]

2 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

that means this chould happen :

hope you won't need 3 carrilleros in the middle for it to work. besides, you shouldn't need a specific role to achieve this behaviour, it should be a tactical decision when you play from the back...

[kpsia518]

5 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

hope you won't need 3 carrilleros in the middle for it to work. besides, you shouldn't need a specific role to achieve this behaviour, it should be a tactical decision when you play from the back...

i think it still hard to do 3 man swap.

but 2  carrilleros 1 AP,in middle,AP go forward,2  carrilleros cover possition.
from 4123 to 4231

[pats]

1 hour ago, Jean0987654321 said:

That Carreliaro role is gonna be key for me to emulate Simeone tactics in fm18

 

and also hoping that those huge gaps in the midfield is fixed

I hope Carreliros shuttle during defensive phase too, otherwise you can't emulate Simeone tactics. 

There's also a new 'Mark specific position' PI now. Does that mean I can make my wide players mark central positions and my central players to mark wide positions. We'll have to wait and see. 

[kpsia518]

You can ask your team to look for the underlap in the final third, while in the Player Instruction menu you can instruct players to mark a specific position and ask central players to run wide with the ball.

[macca72]

On 11/10/2017 at 18:30, themadsheep2001 said:

If SI have covered the real life role in the position and way I hope, its the perfect role to link defence and attack in a 4-2-3-1 deep (Anyone wanting to copy Bayern or Germany 4-2-3-1)

Just realised I said Khedira as an example. The truly obvious German example should have been Bastian Schweinsteiger

I've never successfully got a 4231 deep to work, but for me it's potentially the most flexible formation of the lot. B2B DM unlocks so many more possibilities.

[Jean0987654321]

3 hours ago, kpsia518 said:

that means this chould happen :

 

And also having my center mid roam wide and whip in a cross could happen ala Gabi of Atleti. Also, I could emulate a South American 442 diamond

[Jean0987654321]

5 hours ago, brightonrock said:

I think the new roles are the most exciting thing so far - the scouting overhaul looks to be a sensible and realistic evolution to that feature, and I am reserving judgement on dynamics.

IMO the two tactical things that have been difficult to replicate in FM12-17 are defensive shape/tracking back of forward players, and lateral movement by central players.

If you're playing a winger at MR/L, I tend to find their starting position is a little too deep when moving into the attacking phase - they may get a few assists if they're a decent crosser of the ball, but they don't often score as they're releasing the ball before they get close to the box. However, playing them as an AMR/L has the opposite effect - they join your central striker or attacking midfielders in and around the box, but leave a full back very isolated and rarely track back much beyond the half way line when defending.

Now possibly this is the classic 'it's your tactics' - I've tried various combinations of MR/L with Attack mentality and get further forward, but all of this seems to kick in when they have the ball themself, rather than the moment a BWM wins possession. Equally giving the AMR/L a more neutral or defensive roles or PIs means they don't play as assertively in the final 3rd.

Secondly, I find it difficult to get my central midfielders to track laterally - if I have a full/wing back getting forward on the overlap, I want a defensive minded central midfielder to cover that gap, or at least be aware of the space and ready to cover, in the event we lose possession and the opposition launch a counter-attack down the flank. The BWM/BBM's tend to cover a lot of ground up and down the pitch, but largely stay in the central 3rd - so a counter attack usually ends with a centre half being dragged over to close down a rampaging winger, leaving space in the middle for opposition strikers for a tap in from a cross or cut-back.

Having more flexibility here will be a big win IMO - as I understand it, this could be achieved using the carrilero ("shuttler") and segundo volante (essentially a half back with stopper mentality who rushes out from deep into midfield or out wide to make tackles).

I hope the tornante ("returner") makes an appearance - a winger who tracks back - as this will be key to the way I like to play. IRL my team, Brighton, play this way - our wingers are expected to get back and help out the full back completely, often even filling in as an auxillary FB, allowing the actual FB to tuck in and add another body to our box in defence. Mourinho also plays this way with Man Utd, asking Rashford/Mata to track back and help out, whilst simultaneously having the awareness and work rate to drive forward quickly in the transition, as soon as possession is regained.

Fingers crossed...

Isn't that just DW with Get Further Forward PI?

[brightonrock]

11 hours ago, Jean0987654321 said:

Isn't that just DW with Get Further Forward PI?

Not that I've found - a defensive winger "closes down" ahead of him, rather than necessarily tracking back - granted he is more defensively minded, but the idea as far as I can see is for him to defend against the opposite full back, rather than help out his own full back with the opposition winger. That's the distinction - creating essentially a 'Complete' Winger, like a Complete Wing Back - contributing equally as a primary attacking threat, but not being 'carried' by the team defensively.