Roster size/Squad Depth, what is right?

[chemik]

Been playing FM off and on since 2002/3.   One thing I can't ever seem to feel good about is squad depth/roster size.  An example.  My current active senior squad has about 24-25 players.  Typically, I have 2 first team capable players I rotate through per position about every other game with about 4 or so guys I can put in multiple positions when I have injuries.  Very rarely I have to bring up some U19s when I get pounded with injuries and international call ups.  If I try and bring any more players in, I immediately get a bunch of unhappy players who want first team action even though I signed them as "backups". 

Here's the problem though.  My squad constantly complains about lack of depth and when I click on other teams in my division, they have like 35 players including a bunch that aren't even registered because they don't have enough spots.  Most of these guys are getting 5 or less games a season yet very few are complaining.  What say you all about squad size?  How many do you have?  How do you keep them happy?

[Showerman]

something like this...

That season I played 3412 for the majority of games and 433 when i needed to rotate, only players who want first team football are 2nd choice RB and 2nd GK who is as good as my 1st and deserves to play for a top team ability wise... feel i have an established first team and a set second team and both get enough minutes.

 

[chemik]

@Showerman Looks like we are pretty similar, biggest difference being your decent number of Strikers when I only have 3 since I typically use a 1 AF formation.  Makes me feel better.

[s0ni42]

It’s constant struggle that teams deal with in real life too. 2 capable st each position plus a couple of content veterans to mentor and a couple of youngsters who will play in odd cup or rotation game

[FrazT]

24-25 is perfectly adequate for almost all circumstances as long as there are a couple of good reserves handy if you have an injury/suspension crisis.

[phnompenhandy]

Depends on the level I'm playing at. I'm managing an amateur club at Level 12 - everyone's there to play and most of the squad are under 18. Our training facilities and coaching is as low as it gets so the only way to develop is to play first-team football. Furthermore, I'm in Ireland where the discipline rules are 2 yellows = suspension and a further suspension for every subsequent card, so what I need is 2 players for each outfield position; hence my squad has 21 players and they all get loads of games.

[Overmars]

I keep a minimal squad. I have about 5 guaranteed first team players who I start whenever they are fit, another 10-12 who I rotate depending on form and fitness, and 3-6 backups who I only trust in lesser competitions and injury crises. The only time I get problems is if I sell players at the end of a window instead of at the beginning of the window when I can't follow those sales with purchases.

[XaW]

For me this depends on a lot of things;

1. Rotating. If you like to rotate the side a lot, then you need a bigger squad than if you try to use the same 11 as often as possible.
2. How many matches you expect to play each season. If you are playing as a top side in England and expect to compete in every tournament you are in, then you need a bigger squad than a side whos main goal is to stay in the division and are will mostly play league games and maybe a few cup matches.
3. You tactic of choice. If you play a high press tactic that will demand a lot of running from the players, then it's reasonable to expect players to be exhausted and in need of a rest every once in a while.

And of course how you prefer it. I usually have a rather small squad and rely on giving youngster a lot of chances, but that is how I prefer to play it. I try to have at least double coverage on all first team spots, but I don't mind that some players cover several spots. I often have small squads, around 16-18 players and rely on U23s/U18s to fill in the spots if needed. Of course, I have had the negative effects now and then when all players capable of playing left back were out injured so my backup winger had to play there.

[LukasZ_VCF]

8 minutes ago, XaW said:

For me this depends on a lot of things;

1. Rotating. If you like to rotate the side a lot, then you need a bigger squad than if you try to use the same 11 as often as possible.
2. How many matches you expect to play each season. If you are playing as a top side in England and expect to compete in every tournament you are in, then you need a bigger squad than a side whos main goal is to stay in the division and are will mostly play league games and maybe a few cup matches.
3. You tactic of choice. If you play a high press tactic that will demand a lot of running from the players, then it's reasonable to expect players to be exhausted and in need of a rest every once in a while.

And of course how you prefer it. I usually have a rather small squad and rely on giving youngster a lot of chances, but that is how I prefer to play it. I try to have at least double coverage on all first team spots, but I don't mind that some players cover several spots. I often have small squads, around 16-18 players and rely on U23s/U18s to fill in the spots if needed. Of course, I have had the negative effects now and then when all players capable of playing left back were out injured so my backup winger had to play there.

So which style of playing will be the best to still be able to win but keep the most of energy?

[XaW]

7 minutes ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

So which style of playing will be the best to still be able to win but keep the most of energy?

I posted what I tend to do, but it might not suit you. You need to try different things and see what you like the most and what fits your playstyle.

[LukasZ_VCF]

7 minutes ago, XaW said:

I posted what I tend to do, but it might not suit you. You need to try different things and see what you like the most and what fits your playstyle.

No I mean theoretically I like to play offensive and fast with counter attack

 

Now I use 2 squads because everyting is sort out but I am in 2023 with Valencia so I have good players in 1st team and good + young with potential in 2nd squad in first team with 25 players so I play with 2nd line up when I look at calendar to see when I want my 1st team players to be in the best condition...

 

But for example in England there is more games so probably I woudn't be able to play there like here because I mostly can't use the same players in the middle of the week and on the weekend more than like 2 times in 3rd game they are probably below 90% and assistant is saying that they are tired

 

So I wonder if there would be another tactic to change to for example when leading with good opponent to keep the energy but still be able to play well

[phnompenhandy]

27 minutes ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

So which style of playing will be the best to still be able to win but keep the most of energy?

Park the Bus with one successful counter?

[LukasZ_VCF]

29 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Park the Bus with one successful counter?

It will invite opponent to attack it's really risky. Was thinking more like still playing something but not with that high intensity

[XaW]

35 minutes ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

No I mean theoretically I like to play offensive and fast with counter attack

Now I use 2 squads because everyting is sort out but I am in 2023 with Valencia so I have good players in 1st team and good + young with potential in 2nd squad in first team with 25 players so I play with 2nd line up when I look at calendar to see when I want my 1st team players to be in the best condition...

But for example in England there is more games so probably I woudn't be able to play there like here because I mostly can't use the same players in the middle of the week and on the weekend more than like 2 times in 3rd game they are probably below 90% and assistant is saying that they are tired

So I wonder if there would be another tactic to change to for example when leading with good opponent to keep the energy but still be able to play well

This is the thing everyone is trying to figure out, isn't it?

Well, I played in England with a small squad, but I'm always happy to give youngster a chance even if it means throwing the occasional game and still win most matches. As a manager, I'm the "sink or swim"-type. Throw the young ones over board and see if they have what it takes. Cynical? Yes, but it's a tough business, baby!

And I always lose interest when I start winning too much though, maybe I'm just a sucker for pain, who knows.

When it comes to the tactical part it also depends on the type of players you have. I wouldn't recommend playing tiki-taka with Burnley or, you know, your local pub side. They just don't have the players for it. At the same time, you don't want to play hoofball with Messi as a striker.

In FM18 I had a save where I were a lower league side that played hoofball. The defenders were there to defend and stay there, the strikers were supposed to win duels and pick up the second ball. The only ones who ran a lot were the midfielders, so the only ones I had to have a decent pool of were midfielders. I think I played a total of 5 defenders the whole season (few injuries), but had about 8 central midfielders and struggled to fill in some at times. All the hard work were done my the midfielders, but that is what I wanted to do. So I filled up the squad with good midfielders since I knew they would have to rotate, but kept very few defenders and strikers with rarely any backups.

[LukasZ_VCF]

2 minutes ago, XaW said:

This is the thing everyone is trying to figure out, isn't it?

Well, I played in England with a small squad, but I'm always happy to give youngster a chance even if it means throwing the occasional game and still win most matches. As a manager, I'm the "sink or swim"-type. Throw the young ones over board and see if they have what it takes. Cynical? Yes, but it's a tough business, baby!

And I always lose interest when I start winning too much though, maybe I'm just a sucker for pain, who knows. 

When it comes to the tactical part it also depends on the type of players you have. I wouldn't recommend playing tiki-taka with Burnley or, you know, your local pub side. They just don't have the players for it. At the same time, you don't want to play hoofball with Messi as a striker.

In FM18 I had a save where I were a lower league side that played hoofball. The defenders were there to defend and stay there, the strikers were supposed to win duels and pick up the second ball. The only ones who ran a lot were the midfielders, so the only ones I had to have a decent pool of were midfielders. I think I played a total of 5 defenders the whole season (few injuries), but had about 8 central midfielders and struggled to fill in some at times. All the hard work were done my the midfielders, but that is what I wanted to do. So I filled up the squad with good midfielders since I knew they would have to rotate, but kept very few defenders and strikers with rarely any backups. 

Well that's probably because when you don't win everything you keep changing things and learning

[Smurf]

I always try to have

 

2 GK + 1 reserve keeper

3xDL & 3xDR (adv if also DC)

4xDC

2xMC/AMC

2xML

2xMR

2xAMRCL

4ST

That gives me 25 in total.

 

Plus a rake of U21 

 

[metallimuse]

Hmmm...I'm like XaW I prefer to have a smaller squad normally of 21 and that will include academy players that I will play in smaller/cup games as I'm very much an academy save kind of guy.

2 keepers, 2 LB's, 4 CD's, 2 RB's, 5 CM's 2 AMC's, 4 strikers does me but I always sign all academy players to have as back up until around 18/21 when they will get released. So if I have to I will play one of them if needs must but as I said the best are normally called up to train with the main squad from regen day anyways and form part of my 21 berths.

[metallimuse]

Also, very rarely do I have any player listed as 'Key Player', I will rotate my 21 regularly and all will get minimum 20 games depending on how cups go.

[XaW]

13 minutes ago, metallimuse said:

Also, very rarely do I have any player listed as 'Key Player', I will rotate my 21 regularly and all will get minimum 20 games depending on how cups go.

I only give players that role if I have to in order to give the salary they demand... No one in my team is irreplaceable (except me as the manager of course! )

[Snorks]

I never have more then 4 Key players, First Team contracts then make up the rest of the 11. Everyone else on Backup, Rotation or Hot Prospect. (I like to keep an 11 on Backup/Rotation but depends on age and experience)

 

[phnompenhandy]

12 hours ago, XaW said:

I only give players that role if I have to in order to give the salary they demand... No one in my team is irreplaceable (except me as the manager of course! )

Same. If my whole squad is young there are no key players; otherwise the goalkeeper and captain only.