How to make it a Challenge in FM20

[VfB4life]

Hey guys,

I'm getting a little bit frustrated and I haven't even played a whole season of FM20 yet. It's just too easy to be successful. Do you have any way of making the game challenging without handcuffing yourself to a ridiculous degree? In FM19 I started a career with my favorit team VfB Stuttgart and won the Bundesliga straight away the first season. With the success I'm having again in the Beta I feel like a super easy promotion and title challenge the following year is super likely.

 

Do you have any idea or set up that makes it harder to win without taking the fun out completely? 

[wkdsoul]

1 hour ago, VfB4life said:

Hey guys,

I'm getting a little bit frustrated and I haven't even played a whole season of FM20 yet. It's just too easy to be successful. Do you have any way of making the game challenging without handcuffing yourself to a ridiculous degree? In FM19 I started a career with my favorit team VfB Stuttgart and won the Bundesliga straight away the first season. With the success I'm having again in the Beta I feel like a super easy promotion and title challenge the following year is super likely.

 

Do you have any idea or set up that makes it harder to win without taking the fun out completely? 

https://twitter.com/Shrewnaldo/status/1191042376938205185

[VfB4life]

23 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

https://twitter.com/Shrewnaldo/status/1191042376938205185

Thanks for the response. That certainly would make it more challenging but I wouldn't really enjoy to play it like that. I also think with my knowledge of players from previous fms I would need to set extra parameters to make it work. Like don't buy anybody you've ever seen/remember ratings from and don't analyse the make-up of a player like relative market value to league/reputation and age...

 

My idea was maybe one or two minus EV tactical set ups that make it harder to make a tactic work and won't allow massive overachievement. Like maybe force myself to set "stay on feet" or having to play very narrow... or something like that. What I wouldn't like is having to buy bad players or play in a terrible league and set fantasy goals like play in islands first league and win the champions league and stuff like that.

Edited November 12, 2019 by VfB4life

[herne79]

@FMunderachiever If you have something constructive to add, add it.  If on the other hand all you want to do is post sarcasm and destructive comments your posts will be removed and (if you carry on) you'll be removed.  Enough.

[VfB4life]

Maybe I should add a little bit of info. For some it may sound confusing for me on one hand to want to have a challenge but not wanting to manage in a very low league or use a hiding tool like @wdksoul mentioned. For me it's just not that enjoyable to go in a very bad league and still overachieve like crazy but be very limited because your team is totally terrible and it's just impossible to win some games. And my problem with the skin is that it doesn't address the tactics issue at all and it brings challenges I don't necessarily like personally. I don't want to spend hours scouting players statistics or become very good of reading the tea leaves like the report or market value in relation to reputation and age etc. I hope you don't get the wrong impression, I love the creativity and respect everybody who enjoys set ups like that but it's just not for me and my preferences.

 

I felt in previous FMs and the 20 beta right now if you set up a sensible tactic and diligently work out few minor tactical changes you can create a powerful tactic fairly quick. And by powerful I mean like a tactic that creates uber results not like bringing a midfield team to europe more like getting them into title contention which is just a bit much. And going on crazy hot streaks. So I'd like to know if there are maybe a few guidlines how to set rules or parameters that let you play in a fun and competetive way without having results that are just unfathomable irl. Like I mentioned above maybe a few forced tactical options that aren't as competetive but freedom with everything else or maybe just do nots on a few overpowered options. Or other creative ways, what I wouldn't like is to be too restricted to a point where you just choose between bad and very bad and I wouldn't like a laundry list of weird rules.

 

 

[yellowforever]

Who's your favourite manager in real life? Have you ever tried recreating their tactic as well as possible? I've been in the same situation as you, but honestly, FM is what you make of it. I've played football management games since FA Premier Manager 2000 so just taking over an average team and developing a strong tactic over time to the point of dominating the world is no longer particularly difficult or fun. Maybe have a go at the Youth Academy challenge? The Pentagon challenge? The Unemployment challenge (a personal fave of mine)?

I, like you and many others find fun in this game through challenges, and one I enjoy doing (as someone who loves watching real life football) is recreating tactics of teams I've watched in real life. Why not try creating a faithful intepretation of Simeone's tactic at Atletico? Bielsa's at Chile and Athletic? Rose's at Salzburg and Gladbach? Conte's at Inter or Chelsea? Ten Hag's Ajax team? Gasperini's Atalanta? These are all guys who's team I've watched in recent years and have fell in love with their tactical style, but also their recruitment and man management styles. Trying to emulate all facets of their management for me is extremely enjoyable. You don't have to manage those specific teams, if anything a greater challenge can be found by turning a team completely unsuited to it into something even better than the original.

Ultimately FM is a blank slate from which you can make your own fun, and so many people enjoy different aspects of it. Someone new to the game might just want to start managing Man City or PSG and find their fun by exploring the very tip of the game, but as time goes on you find that's no longer particularly interesting. There's nothing wrong with taking a break, I have multiple times but always end up being dragged back by a new idea or the promise of a challenge I'm yet to do. Good luck.

[VfB4life]

5 hours ago, yellowforever said:

Who's your favourite manager in real life? Have you ever tried recreating their tactic as well as possible? I've been in the same situation as you, but honestly, FM is what you make of it. I've played football management games since FA Premier Manager 2000 so just taking over an average team and developing a strong tactic over time to the point of dominating the world is no longer particularly difficult or fun. Maybe have a go at the Youth Academy challenge? The Pentagon challenge? The Unemployment challenge (a personal fave of mine)?

I, like you and many others find fun in this game through challenges, and one I enjoy doing (as someone who loves watching real life football) is recreating tactics of teams I've watched in real life. Why not try creating a faithful intepretation of Simeone's tactic at Atletico? Bielsa's at Chile and Athletic? Rose's at Salzburg and Gladbach? Conte's at Inter or Chelsea? Ten Hag's Ajax team? Gasperini's Atalanta? These are all guys who's team I've watched in recent years and have fell in love with their tactical style, but also their recruitment and man management styles. Trying to emulate all facets of their management for me is extremely enjoyable. You don't have to manage those specific teams, if anything a greater challenge can be found by turning a team completely unsuited to it into something even better than the original.

Ultimately FM is a blank slate from which you can make your own fun, and so many people enjoy different aspects of it. Someone new to the game might just want to start managing Man City or PSG and find their fun by exploring the very tip of the game, but as time goes on you find that's no longer particularly interesting. There's nothing wrong with taking a break, I have multiple times but always end up being dragged back by a new idea or the promise of a challenge I'm yet to do. Good luck.

That's interesting. The new stuttgart manager Tim Walter actually has a really unique playing style I want to try to emulate in my new save. The thing is just in my head I would improve that thing as much as I can regardless how much it moves away from his idea to make it work well. Maybe I shouldn't do that and stay very close to the principles all the time and just make sensible changes within. Thats maybe what I'm searching for actually. Thanks

[sporadicsmiles]

15 hours ago, VfB4life said:

Do you have any idea or set up that makes it harder to win without taking the fun out completely? 

Are you building your own tactics, or using downloaded ones? Of the latter, the place to start would be to do everything yourself. Many downloaded tactics are designed to exploit the ME and do things the AI is not able to respond to.

Try playing in a new country, or start from the bottom with no qualifications and see how high up the ladder you can get.

[VfB4life]

On 13/11/2019 at 11:52, sporadicsmiles said:

Are you building your own tactics, or using downloaded ones? Of the latter, the place to start would be to do everything yourself. Many downloaded tactics are designed to exploit the ME and do things the AI is not able to respond to.

Try playing in a new country, or start from the bottom with no qualifications and see how high up the ladder you can get.

Sry to answer so late. I reached the maximum amount of posts on Wednesday and had to wait 24 hours... 

 

I always build my own tactics but I feel like if you keep improving them and they make sense with the player pool you have it gets very powerful fairly quick, at least that was the case with my last 3 or 4 longer saves. As far as other countries go I've been around a couple now but in terms of going into low tier countries where football isn't as big thats not too much fun for me. Thats probably the biggest challenge to win internationally but there will be a lot of dominating countless seasons in your own country before that and I'm not looking forward to it to be honest.

 

What I do actually like though is the idea to maybe go into a save with a fairly strict idea of the playing style and/or formation your not familiar with and trying to get that to work. Maybe that will make it way harder, I'm excited to figure it out. Thanks for all the cool tips and ideas guys 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

If you want a challenge, try creating a consisently successful tactic without maxed out pressing. Perhaps something with lower LOE & less urgent closing down. If you succeed, pray tell.

[VfB4life]

35 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

If you want a challenge, try creating a consisently successful tactic without maxed out pressing. Perhaps something with lower LOE & less urgent closing down. If you succeed, pray tell.

Is that a thing? I actually had a lower pressing style at the start of fm 19 in my Stuttgart save and was doing really well but experimented a bit with high pressing and prefered it slightly but I was actually on my way to win the Bundesliga with a lower LoE anyway. Changed it around the winter break I think. But the closing down option I always had at least slightly aggressive to be fair. The most important thing in 19 I felt like was a quick counter-attack anyway as it was harder to break teams down in the final third.

 

But if those options would make it challenging I'd really like to try a save like that or change it up down the line. I like the idea of putting yourself on the backfoot with a few tactical choices but then be creative with the rest and try to overcome that disadvantage.

[Enzo_Francescoli]

16 minutes ago, VfB4life said:

Is that a thing? I actually had a lower pressing style at the start of fm 19 in my Stuttgart save and was doing really well but experimented a bit with high pressing and prefered it slightly but I was actually on my way to win the Bundesliga with a lower LoE anyway. Changed it around the winter break I think. But the closing down option I always had at least slightly aggressive to be fair. The most important thing in 19 I felt like was a quick counter-attack anyway as it was harder to break teams down in the final third.

 

But if those options would make it challenging I'd really like to try a save like that or change it up down the line. I like the idea of putting yourself on the backfoot with a few tactical choices but then be creative with the rest and try to overcome that disadvantage.

That is a thing, yes. You can actually win without maxed out pressing, no doubt. It is possible. But you're handicapping yourself big time.

[Gee_Simpson]

I wish it was too easy. For me, it never has been, partly because my tactical knowledge is very low, and I can't spot things that go wrong. 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

I have simulated 20 seasons with Atletico Madrid, with 20 different tactics. Only one of them won me La Liga, the one that makes absolutely no sense:

[Gee_Simpson]

28 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

I have simulated 20 seasons with Atletico Madrid, with 20 different tactics. Only one of them won me La Liga, the one that makes absolutely no sense:

That's really worrying.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Gee_Simpson

[crusadertsar]

36 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

I have simulated 20 seasons with Atletico Madrid, with 20 different tactics. Only one of them won me La Liga, the one that makes absolutely no sense:

Basically the total balls to the wall gegenpress mode. I'm not surprised

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by crusadertsar

[Robson 07]

The opening post is such a newbie post.  Keep playing different teams, tactics, saves, patches and releases.  This game will sort you out in no time.

[Svenc]

4 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

That's really worrying.

Same thing, different release. Never been any different. Following the game's inbuild "logic" rewarded gets lesser results than trying to break it. Which is also Kind of logical. As usual, crap may still happen at the worst possible Moment -- like a CL final, say. Don't think it'd Need any Coaching course to see where the holes in that tactic are -- which the AI (each having different preferences and making changes during the course of a match) only would exploit and punish some by random Chance and research.

The only viable reason to report it as a possible bug then though would be that the game allows stuff like that. Despite pretending to simulate semi/pro Management, and putting Players into the shoes of a Manager supposedly drawing from an arsenal of making reasonable (Football) decisions. The more the game funnels Players (and AI) into making such decisions, the better a Football experience it would become anyway, imo. There's likely too many combinations and permutations for SI to "worry" about when addressing Feedback, balancing and coding the ME  itself too. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Svenc

[crusadertsar]

16 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

The opening post is such a newbie post.  Keep playing different teams, tactics, saves, patches and releases.  This game will sort you out in no time.

Haha was about to say the same thing. Winning the league is easy enough with a midlevel team. Winning the Champions League is a whole other challenge. Haven't managed to do it since FM2014

[JD nawrat]

5 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Haha was about to say the same thing. Winning the league is easy enough with a midlevel team. Winning the Champions League is a whole other challenge. Haven't managed to do it since FM2014

Everyone finds different sides of the game difficult, tbh. 

Generally I always pick a mid/low table team and build the up. Occasionally go for a promotion favourite in a lower division. I only really stick with a save for 4-8 seasons max, so my plan is always to win as much as possible in that time. 

Like yourself I haven't won the CL for a while. I think I last did it in 15, with Aston Villa. I came close a bunch of times on 18 with HSV, but never managed it. 

Back in 15 and prior to that I never found it much of a challenge, I managed CL wins with the likes of Rennes, Hertha and the aforementioned Villa. 

Game difficulty is something you impart on yourself. Only using youths, only using HG players, signing a specific nationality, using specific play styles and never deviating from them; using more difficult play styles to achieve greatness etc. 

You say you want a challenge OP, but then rule out the option of going to LLM. So what is it? Do you want a challenge or not? 

[streety]

Challange load up multiple countries you have not ever managed in on FM ever and see where you end up...leave the country to chance and the team must be a newly promoted team in to the game