Johnnym871 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Honestly wibwobs in a game with a match engine will make it perfect. You can actually see your creations play in game, shame they wont add it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbutton Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 wtf are wibwobs? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 No, it will not, and it should not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 with ball - without ball old tactical system in CM and one of the main reason for cheat and super tactics. So the answer should be - no. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 47 minuti fa, KUBI ha scritto: with ball - without ball old tactical system in CM and one of the main reason for cheat and super tactics. So the answer should be - no. if they changed it because of cheating and supertactics it isn't like they succeded. There are still tons of these tactics. wibble/wobble still remains how tactics in real are created. so it might be worth rethinking this stance. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, MBarbaric said: wibble/wobble still remains how tactics in real are created. In what way does this statement make sense? "Alright lad, 14 for passing length did not work, you should try one notch up on 15 and see how that works". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, MBarbaric said: if they changed it because of cheating and supertactics it isn't like they succeded. There are still tons of these tactics. wibble/wobble still remains how tactics in real are created. so it might be worth rethinking this stance. I see the point, but I wonder if SI really want to go down that route again? I mean, they would need to have much better AI, since the AI needs to be able to use the same tools as the user. Unless we _want_ the AI to cheat in order to be able to cope with users and their inputs? Or a much improved AI making the game severely harder for the average FM'er? I struggle to see how it would work otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likesiamesefish Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said: In what way does this statement make sense? "Alright lad, 14 for passing length did not work, you should try one notch up on 15 and see how that works". Surely the wibwob aspect of the old tactics was separate to the sliders? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 44 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said: In what way does this statement make sense? "Alright lad, 14 for passing length did not work, you should try one notch up on 15 and see how that works". Wibwob in tactics has nothing to do with sliders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 20 minuti fa, XaW ha scritto: I see the point, but I wonder if SI really want to go down that route again? I mean, they would need to have much better AI, since the AI needs to be able to use the same tools as the user. Unless we _want_ the AI to cheat in order to be able to cope with users and their inputs? Or a much improved AI making the game severely harder for the average FM'er? I struggle to see how it would work otherwise. i think you'd potentially make more level field. let me try to explain. if the wibble/wobble is the only input (or maybe a secondary solution/alongside current?), you'd get off role/duty/mentality thing. All the input would be how you place your pieces on the table in relation to ball position. So, SI would need to dig in football manuals, analyse how teams play from deep/use flanks... basically, create a database of basic movement patterns. It sounds like a huge undertaking but it really isn't. There are plenty of people (and all the top clubs) that follow their opposition week in week out. Carefully noting how each coach uses their team. How they develop their attacks from deep, how they move to create space for specific player in specific position... And all that is nothing but how coaches do wibble/wobble in real. Something like the picture below: This is a variant of positional attack in 4-3-3 using an inverted wing-back (4) and a half-back (16). There is a huge data set of these in every phase of play everywhere. What would need to be done is to create a catalogue of those for each zone. You could have this preset library and, you could add your own with wibble/wobble. However, defence would need to be more hard coded with less creativity. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Yeah I get your point @MBarbaric, but I still would think it would be a real pain to make sure the ME (and AI) can handle all of those strange things we humans can conjure up. Also player AI would be another issue. How strict would it be? I mean, do we expect the player AI to "understand" that it shouldn't ignore the ball running past since it's trying to get into it's tactical place. I can see this being a recipe for disaster, even if I understand the need/want for a system to set up more detailed positioning. And, I don't really think that can replace the roles and/or instructions. Of course you can say that players will be at a point at any time, but how would one control passing range for example? Edited February 21, 2020 by XaW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 ora fa, XaW ha scritto: Yeah I get your point @MBarbaric, but I still would think it would be a real pain to make sure the ME (and AI) can handle all of those strange things we humans can conjure up. Also player AI would be another issue. How strict would it be? I mean, do we expect the player AI to "understand" that it shouldn't ignore the ball running past since it's trying to get into it's tactical place. I can see this being a recipe for disaster, even if I understand the need/want for a system to set up more detailed positioning. And, I don't really think that can replace the roles and/or instructions. Of course you can say that players will be at a point at any time, but how would one control passing range for example? well, you sure have a point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) @shirajzl do you know which FM was that? what was the last fm with wibb/wobb? It would be interesting to load the game and see how it actually handled it. but, was there a 3d ME at the time of wibble/wobble? EDIT: just checked. It seems FM 4 2003/4 was the first to have 2d and the first without wibble/wobble so we can't see how that worked... Edited February 21, 2020 by MBarbaric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnym871 Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 8 hours ago, XaW said: I see the point, but I wonder if SI really want to go down that route again? I mean, they would need to have much better AI, since the AI needs to be able to use the same tools as the user. Unless we _want_ the AI to cheat in order to be able to cope with users and their inputs? Or a much improved AI making the game severely harder for the average FM'er? I struggle to see how it would work otherwise. Have an option if you want to play with it or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnym871 Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 All im saying is, if they added wib wobs to a game with a match engine, it would complete it imo. Ovbiously the ai would need to get better to even it all out, but imagine creating a wib wob and seeing it perform in game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaW Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Johnnym871 said: Have an option if you want to play with it or not? Could be, but then SI would have to maintain two ME's, and thus twice as much testing around the ME, which in time would most likely lead to lesser test quality unless they double the testing effort. So I'd doubt it would be worth the cost, but only SI know for sure. And I expect them to have had this up on more than one occasion. Most likely they have a long term roadmap they are working towards, and since wibwob was removed and we haven't seen anything hinting about its return I do not think it's something to expect, at least not short time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 since they took out wibble wobble at the same time they introduced 2d ME, i-d guess these two things are incompatible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now