Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features

[ChelseaSince86]

10 hours ago, Cal585 said:

If I remember the fuss a few years back, wasn't that a completely separate 2D graphics engine that they discontinued because they were finding it tricky to maintain 2 versions of it? So they won't bring it back. But it would be good if they could spruce up the existing 2D one that does indeed look a bit drab.

Edit: Apparently FM18 changed from primarily 2D converted to 3D to being mostly 3D with a 2D skin. So they had to scrap the nice looking 2D view for the sake of progressing the rest of the game.

Reference as to why it was done: 

 

It was yeh.  I am sure it was that particular 2d view, plus classic.    One showed stadium and a bit more 3D look to the ball as per the pic, one was what we have now.   I prefer how it is now

[ChelseaSince86]

There is one thing in the ME which drives me absolutely mental.  Player will keep a ball in play by the byline, but never keep possession.  Defending team always take control of the ball when this happens

[destmez]

5 minutes ago, ChelseaSince86 said:

licensing. Can only use faces of the leagues you have license for.  Same with kits.   

No i disagree imagine flut asking money for his skin to SI

[ChelseaSince86]

Just now, destmez said:

No i disagree imagine flut asking money for his skin to SI

Im not sure about skins.  Player faces and kits though is licensing, like badges

[ChelseaSince86]

Think I have stepped on Miles' toes on twitter.  Someone asked will XBOX version be the "full" version like on PC, i simply replied it will likely be a "watered down" version, ala classic/touch.   Seems I insulted Miles.  

 

1.  I think that will be the version xbox gets

2. "watered down" while not a great description, is not wrong.   Some parts are left out.  

3. He then confirmed the xbox version is modelled on fmtouch.  

 

Maybe he has had a tough day

Edited October 18, 2020 by ChelseaSince86

[goranm]

34 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Well there's an established history of how the game has sold and performed. I don't have access to the figures, but the methods SI currently employ have allowed them to continue growing their studio and remain at the forefront of their segment of the games market - despite being a substantially smaller studio than what would typically be a market leader.

I will concede that I don't know if shrinking your potential customer base by making the game require a more demanding system, increasing expenditure by licensing a graphics engine such as unreal or one of the others, incurring the costs to deploy that in the game in terms of staff won't generate more sales.

We also have an established history in transitioning from 2D only to 2D+3D. Minimum system requirements for FM08 required a 1.2Ghz Processor and 256 MB of RAM (according to various sites on google, wasn't able to find something official from SI). For FM09 minimum requirements got pushed to 1.4Ghz and doubled the RAM requirement to 512 MB with 128MB Video card. There's even a thread from 2008 with some users worried how they don't meet the minimum specs. How did it affect sales? According to wiki, both FM08 and FM09 were certified platinum in the UK. And SI is still here.

 

Edit: Now that I think about it, I remember that the 3D engine in FM09 was very much still a work in progress, there was no crowd in the stands, certain stadiums weren't rendered properly etc. however the customer base understood that and bought the game anyway.

Edited October 18, 2020 by goranm

[Smurf]

1 minute ago, ChelseaSince86 said:

Think I have stepped on Miles' toes on twitter.  Someone asked will XBOX version be the "full" version like on PC, i simply replied it will likely be a "watered down" version, ala classic/touch.   Seems I insulted Miles.  

 

1.  I think that will be the version xbox gets

2. "watered down" while not a great description, is not wrong.   

 

Maybe he has had a tough day

I find MIles very aggressive and rude on Twitter. Not a good spokesperson for the company. @Neil Brock @Miles Jacobson

[tyro]

There's an article/interview on pcgamesn with Miles and Tom Davidson adding info to the headline features in case you haven't seen it. 

 

[99]

7 minutos atrás, Smurf disse:

I find MIles very aggressive and rude on Twitter. Not a good spokesperson for the company.

That's true. I stopped interacting with him years ago, it's impossible. But to each his own, and I'm still grateful for his work...

[CEVR1996]

7 minutos atrás, santy001 disse:

Well there's an established history of how the game has sold and performed. I don't have access to the figures, but the methods SI currently employ have allowed them to continue growing their studio and remain at the forefront of their segment of the games market - despite being a substantially smaller studio than what would typically be a market leader.

I will concede that I don't know if shrinking your potential customer base by making the game require a more demanding system, increasing expenditure by licensing a graphics engine such as unreal or one of the others, incurring the costs to deploy that in the game in terms of staff won't generate more sales.

However, typically speaking increasing your overheads to reduce your potential customers doesn't often work. You could argue that SI could just keep the two and run them concurrently. That would be an even bigger financial drain to maintain two, have them staffed, have them bug tested, bug fixed etc. 

It's the kind of risk that if you get it wrong, can close a studio or requires substantial financing,

My understanding is SI tend to develop their own technologies in-house, which reduces their financial burdens and in the long run is aimed at positioning them better to increase the quality of things like graphics, without it siphoning off revenue. 

The biggest risk factor with substantially increasing the financial expenditure on FM's production process likely comes from the fact that it's such a niche game, aimed at people who not only like football as a sport but also want more than a simple casual experience along the lines of what FIFA or PES can offer.  FM is probably one of the most time consuming games out there and it heavily diverts away from the flashy, fast paced and action packed nature of most other game franchises nowadays which are getting targeted to increasingly younger audiences who want something that's immediately gratifying and constantly keeps them on edge.

 

The potential market reach for a game such as FM is perpetually limited due to it's core premise, if taking the role of a football manager isn't something that interests you then there's nothing else to be taken from this franchise so perhaps that's what is holding SI back from employing truly meaningful yet costly improvements into the series. The fear that the potential consumer base for FM has already been met to a near full extent thus injecting more money than ever before at the game's production cycle would only result in a significant loss of profit under an eventual failure to attract enough new costumers.

[Smurf]

7 minutes ago, 99 said:

That's true. I stopped interacting with him years ago, it's impossible. But to each his own, and I'm still grateful for his work...

Yeh, I stopped interacting with him too. Not worth it. Grateful for all the hard work he puts in too.

[santy001]

@goranm that does add some interesting context, and yet what people are seemingly asking for would be proportionally a larger increase in overheads. Particularly on the GPU side of things. My point still stands that increasing financial overheads and commitments, in the hopes of selling more would be foolish. It's the same argument that counts against developing the inclusion of womens football at this time. When you sit down and think about the additional financial costs, the additional staff likely needed to make it work, it would require a substantial increase in sales. The FM minimum requirements do change every couple of years, and not in particularly dramatic ways (mostly). 

- - -

Miles puts a disclaimer on his twitter to explain its his personal twitter account. Might be where you're going wrong in some instances.

[akm.91]

30 minutes ago, ChelseaSince86 said:

Think I have stepped on Miles' toes on twitter.  Someone asked will XBOX version be the "full" version like on PC, i simply replied it will likely be a "watered down" version, ala classic/touch.   Seems I insulted Miles.  

 

1.  I think that will be the version xbox gets

2. "watered down" while not a great description, is not wrong.   Some parts are left out.  

3. He then confirmed the xbox version is modelled on fmtouch.  

 

Maybe he has had a tough day

Trust me, this is the usual way Miles interacts with people...

[samuelawachie]

Well, seems like we have some reprieve coming on soon.. Fingers crossed! (:

[orlyzao]

12 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Miles puts a disclaimer on his twitter to explain its his personal twitter account. Might be where you're going wrong in some instances.

Sure, it's his personal twitter account. But he posts a lot of content about Football Manager. Last year he was even posting new features on his own. If we want to keep up to date we have no choice other than following him.

I honestly couldn't care less about anything else he might have to say.

[Stratovarius FC]

hace 47 minutos, themadsheep2001 dijo:

And Neil is in here a lot, and gets a lot of abuse for it, and that discourages other devs from coming in

 You are answering something other than what they are suggesting. The user proposes that there be at the time of announcing the game a person x who explicitly explains in a long video I change them to avoid speculation and not what you are answering about a person x entering a forum to interact. If the method of communicating news is through YouTube as suggested by a user and as other developers do, it reduces speculation and is visually more concrete. Neil coming to reply to a forum to posts has nothing to do with this user's initial suggestion

[themadsheep2001]

16 minutes ago, samuelawachie said:

Well, seems like we have some reprieve coming on soon.. Fingers crossed! (:

The first one is tomorrow

[Stratovarius FC]

hace 12 minutos, themadsheep2001 dijo:

The first one is tomorrow

Let's hope it's not the youtuber reading features and explaining the new improvements in detail. we will see...

[Svenc]

On 17/10/2020 at 13:22, Rashidi said:

Multiplayer mate?!:-)

I'd be interested, also to see how this actually works out given all the dialogue (though I don't have a mic and stuff...) Interestingly, forums can also be pretty toxic towards the game (Steam ones in particular), despite a 85%+ rate of approvel in the reviews, but's that how things are these days. Some good suggestions on the official forums though, the Steam ones are a trainwreck, much like FM's.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Svenc

[Dbuk1]

People like the game. Why concentrate on the positives??? It gets you no closer to a better game. The frustration comes from poor improvements in certain areas over the years. If you want a love inn write a letter to Miles. If you want better then complain, speak out, ask and keep pushing. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Dbuk1

[ChelseaSince86]

13 minutes ago, Stratovarius FC said:

Let's hope it's not the youtuber reading features and explaining the new improvements in detail. we will see...

I am not a fan of that,  I used to enjoy the videos Miles did sat in front of a camera with images of the feature he was describing.  Think it was fm11 days.

 

Like, with all due respect to the guy, I dont associate Spencer Owen with FM, unless its because hashtag utd are in the game this year.   

[saihtam]

1 hour ago, ChelseaSince86 said:

Think I have stepped on Miles' toes on twitter.  Someone asked will XBOX version be the "full" version like on PC, i simply replied it will likely be a "watered down" version, ala classic/touch.   Seems I insulted Miles.  

 

1.  I think that will be the version xbox gets

2. "watered down" while not a great description, is not wrong.   Some parts are left out.  

3. He then confirmed the xbox version is modelled on fmtouch.  

 

Maybe he has had a tough day

Should have directed him here.

[saihtam]

The article mentioned above with Miles and Davidson

https://www.pcgamesn.com/football-manager-2021/new-features

Edited October 18, 2020 by saihtam

[Tony Wright 747]

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

They do. It's literally tied to player image rights. We've even seen evidence of this in the past with certain players where SI can't even use their real name in the game. And we see a lot of real players with no photos. It is absurd, but these are the times we live in. So much is covered by different licenses.

Is this the main reason SI have less licenses than in the past

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

As I said, it is something they have considered and may do in future, but they are less likely to do it if its going to be stick to beat them with, especially when they have a lot going on with their day to day jobs as it is. 

I have to say that I did enjoy it when Miles used to introduce the new features

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, Smurf said:

I find MIles very aggressive and rude on Twitter. Not a good spokesperson for the company. @Neil Brock @Miles Jacobson

Yet if you meet him in person he is very amiable and agreable

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, ChelseaSince86 said:

I am not a fan of that,  I used to enjoy the videos Miles did sat in front of a camera with images of the feature he was describing.  Think it was fm11 days.

 

Like, with all due respect to the guy, I dont associate Spencer Owen with FM, unless its because hashtag utd are in the game this year.   

Miles did it up until Fm17 I believe

[Bradley21]

2 hours ago, samuelawachie said:

Well, seems like we have some reprieve coming on soon.. Fingers crossed! (:

Fully expecting this to be another non-feature. Maybe something like Instagram integration or the ability to help your players blow their nose after you've given them a hug. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

I have to say that I did enjoy it when Miles used to introduce the new features

Yeah they were rough round the edges and I quite liked that. 

His daily drops tend to be the really small changes, usually quality of life things so I like to follow those. Not sure what tomorrow's in depth piece will be about, guess we'll find out soon enough

[JordanMilly]

If people would kindly stay on topic, and not just use this thread to talk about every other topic, it'd make it much easier for people to post their initial thoughts on the features currently announced and what they'd like to see announced next. Feel free to discuss other topics in relevant existing or new threads. 

@Richardcharlston, the reason that the posts you're spamming out about the physics file modification are being removed is because, as it is a third party modification, it isn't something being supported or endorsed by SI, and that's been stated several times across the forum by both SI staff and moderators. If you'd like to discuss it elsewhere, you're more than welcome to, but cutting it out with the spamming would be appreciated, especially since you'd been asked via PM to stop spamming and didn't.

[99]

17 minutos atrás, JordanMillward_1 disse:

 

@Richardcharlston, the reason that the posts you're spamming out about the physics file modification are being removed is because, as it is a third party modification, it isn't something being supported or endorsed by SI, and that's been stated several times across the forum by both SI staff and moderators. If you'd like to discuss it elsewhere, you're more than welcome to, but cutting it out with the spamming would be appreciated, especially since you'd been asked via PM to stop spamming and didn't.

May I kindly recommend you to read about The Streisand effect.

Sorry for this little offtopic

[Double0Seven]

1 hour ago, majesticeternity said:

they created a massive program with way too many facets to maintain/improve without a huge team of workers. With this “engine patch” business, the “editors” have said they are a team working night and day with their daily lives being affected, they are working so hard. And that’s just ONE file out of the millions of files or aspects of FM to manage. It’s mind boggling the work SI has to do. 

At the same time they aren't a small indie company. This is the company that sells millions of their game every year. A full priced game as well. Topping steam charts year in year out where even older versions do well. Even their expensive mobile game sells really well.

It ain't easy work, but they also have a bunch of volunteers for scouting doing vital work for them. What other company has this other then maybe a bunch of enthusiasts testing the game? 

So yes I agree making FM isn't easy, but SI have it much better then most companies out there who aren't guaranteed millions of sales every year due to no competitor and volunteers delivering data for core parts of the game.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Double0Seven

[JordanMilly]

1 hour ago, 99 said:

May I kindly recommend you to read about The Streisand effect.

Sorry for this little offtopic

People can discuss it, people have done here on the forum, and that's fine.

When you make 4-5 posts in the space of 10 minutes all just telling people to go and use it, all in the same thread and one after another, and those posts are off-topic, that's spamming and will be removed.

[Britrock]

16 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

At the same time they aren't a small indie company. This is the company that sells millions of their game every year. A full priced game as well. Topping steam charts year in year out where even older versions do well. Even their expensive mobile game sells really well.

It ain't easy work, but they also have a bunch of volunteers for scouting doing vital work for them. What other company has this other then maybe a bunch of enthusiasts testing the game? 

So yes I agree making FM isn't easy, but SI have it much better then most companies out there who aren't guaranteed millions of sales every year due to no competitor and volunteers delivering data for core parts of the game.

It's hardly their fault they have no competition, in fact it says a lot about how good the game is that no one has even attempted to start a football sim to compete with them.

[Double0Seven]

9 minutes ago, Britrock said:

It's hardly their fault they have no competition, in fact it says a lot about how good the game is that no one has even attempted to start a football sim to compete with them.

At the same time it's easy to hold back. They are only shooting themselves in the foot if they pushed out way too much in a short time frame. Don't even blame them for doing that, it's the best buisness decision and any company would to the same most likely. 

I'm just saying that I don't really believe in the "but FM has a lot of features to maintain and update" as an excuse for not being able to push out certain things. They ain't a small company. They even have volunteers despite making millions every year. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Double0Seven

[majesticeternity]

8 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I'm just saying that I don't really believe in the "but FM has a lot of features to maintain and update" as an excuse for not being able to push out certain things. They ain't a small company. They even have volunteers despite making millions every year. 

I think a lot of people agree with you, and as I said it’s not an excuse, just some perspective. they could hire a ton of people and not get a lot done, if efforts fail or aren’t worthwhile as a whole. Just because they are poorly developing the game, doesn’t mean they’re not trying or working hard. Most players have no idea how massive a task it is to manage the game. 
 

SI could have a lot more help but don’t use it. The community gets a lot of things done that they don’t. they are lately putting out new features, but poorly implemented or not really useful ones. Players tell them time and again what to fix, even very easy things, and they don’t do it. 
 

who knows how many hours they put in to make those gesture buttons, but in the end, to most of the user base, it’s useless effort and doesn’t add much to the FM experience. That’s the issue, si adds things that don’t work right, doesn’t fully fix things that were added before, and adds boring things that may be realistic, but don’t add joy or better gameplay.

[bababooey]

I have to agree with the people here who are disappointed. 

Everyone knows that the interactions between the manager and his players are structured in a way that provides for one or two ideal choices, whereas the rest will impact negatively.  Adding something like body language makes no difference to that. How is it any different than choosing the tone of voice to speak in?  It's the same thing..  The same thing applies to the media.  You respond a certain way to questions, and the players get pissed off.  Respond a different way, or just remain evasive, and you won't be punished.  It's not exactly anything groundbreaking.  I would be VERY interested to see statistics that show how the player base approaches this part of the game.  I'm willing to bet a large percentage of FM'ers never talk to their players, because of the irrational conversations.   I'm willing to bet also, that a large percentage of FM'ers just assign press conferences to their assistant manager. 

 

Interactions aside, I want to also highlight this:  

45 minutes ago, majesticeternity said:

I think a lot of people agree with you, and as I said it’s not an excuse, just some perspective. they could hire a ton of people and not get a lot done, if efforts fail or aren’t worthwhile as a whole. Just because they are poorly developing the game, doesn’t mean they’re not trying or working hard. Most players have no idea how massive a task it is to manage the game. 
 

SI could have a lot more help but don’t use it. The community gets a lot of things done that they don’t. they are lately putting out new features, but poorly implemented or not really useful ones. Players tell them time and again what to fix, even very easy things, and they don’t do it. 
 

who knows how many hours they put in to make those gesture buttons, but in the end, to most of the user base, it’s useless effort and doesn’t add much to the FM experience. That’s the issue, si adds things that don’t work right, doesn’t fully fix things that were added before, and adds boring things that may be realistic, but don’t add joy or better gameplay.

 

This is a really good point.  The community here tries really hard to provide feedback, but it feels like we're getting a bit of lipstick on a pig.  Not saying FM20 was poor... it was good, but it could have been SO SO SO much better. 

Ultimately, the core of the game is the match engine.  It's the most important thing.  Without it, what's the point?  You can't be a football manager if there's no game to manage. I'm not interested in sitting back and going on holiday to simulate matches. But if people are frustrated with the match engine, then this is the path they'll choose, understandably so. 

I can't understand how something as silly as a new trophy celebration is considered a "headline feature."  Or the season review screen!!  I mean, what are we doing here?  You can already see a season review, it doesn't need to be updated, and doing so certainly can't be considered a "headline feature."  

What about a headline feature that states:  "Our most realistic and engaging match engine, EVER."  Even if it isn't true, even if it's mostly just blowing smoke, I'd rather see that than some fluff piece about a new trophy celebration. 

What about addressing how Gegenpress was the Meta in FM20 ?  Wouldn't it be a wise decision to address this so players don't get the impression that there's really only one effective way to play?  

There's just so much potential and it feels entirely wasted.   

FEATURE #1   Our most realistic and improved match engine to date.      

(The "meta" of gegenpress is no longer the case. ALL tactical styles are effective when applied correctly...  Pressing shouldn't be overpowering to where it covers for a poor overall approach) 

(1v1's FIXED.  Penalty conversions FIXED.  Crosses being hit into the side netting or directly smashed into the defender, FIXED.) 

FEATURE #2   Interactions with players have been overhauled to provide for more realistic conversations and outcomes. 

(No more players getting upset over something totally innocuous. No more dumb responses from players. No more obvious choices for dialogue that value one way of speaking over another.) 

FEATURE #3   Revamped player intake to provide for more varied players coming through your academy

(For example, a better distribution of player positions...  Less strikers and AMC's, more CM's and MLR's, etc.) 

 

That's 3 "headline features" that would convince probably the ENTIRE playerbase that purchasing FM21 would be worth it.  

I just did it for you guys, for free.   

No mention of fluff like body language changes. No mention of the match screen being tweaked.  No mention of throwing a water bottle (seriously guys?).  
Just a simple and effective message that states:  our game is better than ever, and you're going to want to buy it

 

[themadsheep2001]

Personally, FM21 has already grabbed me with Xg. I didn't think they could model it in time for this year, so very intrigued to see how it plays out, as well as the first looks at the Match Engine we will get before beta release

[Mars_Blackmon]

45 minutes ago, bababooey said:

I have to agree with the people here who are disappointed. 

Everyone knows that the interactions between the manager and his players are structured in a way that provides for one or two ideal choices, whereas the rest will impact negatively.  Adding something like body language makes no difference to that. How is it any different than choosing the tone of voice to speak in?  It's the same thing..  The same thing applies to the media.  You respond a certain way to questions, and the players get pissed off.  Respond a different way, or just remain evasive, and you won't be punished.  It's not exactly anything groundbreaking.  I would be VERY interested to see statistics that show how the player base approaches this part of the game.  I'm willing to bet a large percentage of FM'ers never talk to their players, because of the irrational conversations.   I'm willing to bet also, that a large percentage of FM'ers just assign press conferences to their assistant manager. 

 

Interactions aside, I want to also highlight this:  

 

This is a really good point.  The community here tries really hard to provide feedback, but it feels like we're getting a bit of lipstick on a pig.  Not saying FM20 was poor... it was good, but it could have been SO SO SO much better. 

Ultimately, the core of the game is the match engine.  It's the most important thing.  Without it, what's the point?  You can't be a football manager if there's no game to manage. I'm not interested in sitting back and going on holiday to simulate matches. But if people are frustrated with the match engine, then this is the path they'll choose, understandably so. 

I can't understand how something as silly as a new trophy celebration is considered a "headline feature."  Or the season review screen!!  I mean, what are we doing here?  You can already see a season review, it doesn't need to be updated, and doing so certainly can't be considered a "headline feature."  

What about a headline feature that states:  "Our most realistic and engaging match engine, EVER."  Even if it isn't true, even if it's mostly just blowing smoke, I'd rather see that than some fluff piece about a new trophy celebration. 

What about addressing how Gegenpress was the Meta in FM20 ?  Wouldn't it be a wise decision to address this so players don't get the impression that there's really only one effective way to play?  

There's just so much potential and it feels entirely wasted.   

FEATURE #1   Our most realistic and improved match engine to date.      

(The "meta" of gegenpress is no longer the case. ALL tactical styles are effective when applied correctly...  Pressing shouldn't be overpowering to where it covers for a poor overall approach) 

(1v1's FIXED.  Penalty conversions FIXED.  Crosses being hit into the side netting or directly smashed into the defender, FIXED.) 

FEATURE #2   Interactions with players have been overhauled to provide for more realistic conversations and outcomes. 

(No more players getting upset over something totally innocuous. No more dumb responses from players. No more obvious choices for dialogue that value one way of speaking over another.) 

FEATURE #3   Revamped player intake to provide for more varied players coming through your academy

(For example, a better distribution of player positions...  Less strikers and AMC's, more CM's and MLR's, etc.) 

 

That's 3 "headline features" that would convince probably the ENTIRE playerbase that purchasing FM21 would be worth it.  

I just did it for you guys, for free.   

No mention of fluff like body language changes. No mention of the match screen being tweaked.  No mention of throwing a water bottle (seriously guys?).  
Just a simple and effective message that states:  our game is better than ever, and you're going to want to buy it

 

There is still a chance of all that being done. Nothing suggest otherwise. They had a theme of the game being focused on the manager this year and that was the theme in the video. Just like last year theme was club vision.

for all we know, everything you just listed could be announced in videos and Twitter tomorrow.

[themadsheep2001]

11 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

There is still a chance of all that being done. Nothing suggest otherwise. They had a theme of the game being focused on the manager this year and that was the theme in the video. Just like last year theme was club vision.

for all we know, everything you just listed could be announced in videos and Twitter tomorrow.

I'm not sure if tomorrow is everything, or just the start of a series of detailed views per subject (probably the latter), but we're only really starting to get detailed information now. The next few weeks is where it gets really interesting for me, personally

[Sherkey]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Personally, FM21 has already grabbed me with Xg. I didn't think they could model it in time for this year, so very intrigued to see how it plays out, as well as the first looks at the Match Engine we will get before beta release

xG has me highly intrigued too, actually. If they have overhauled the analysis side of things, making it more easy to interpret, access and use, that alone is good enough for me for 21, because that adds to the immersion and helps in tweaking a created tactic immensely. It alone spreads into different aspects of play - what player roles do I use to increase my chances, what positions are they firing from, what better class of players I need to improve and maybe outperform it - makes for some fun immersion there too.

[Rashidi]

Personally I am surprised to read xG even made it into the game. For quite a while I thought there was some serious doubts as to its inclusion into the game. I am glad its in, and I do remember quite a number of people making detailed requests and thorough explanations on how this could help them evaluate their tactics better. There are several ways we can approach xG and speculating at this point is worthless until we see it. The fact that they partnered with a reputable data provider spells hope, I for one am very very interested in the algorithm. 

For a long time many of us including me absolutely detested clear cut chances as a metric. It was the only one in the game, and it never separated chances from dead ball situations. To find out whether your tactic was any good, you would need to do your own detailed dive into visual + stats. And for many people it was too time consuming. Now with xG, how far will they go? If they go all the way with it, it will be fantastic.

Having an xG table for teams and players, now that would be phenomenal. Why? Cos if a striker has a low xG and a high goal return, it's not always a good thing. His luck could run out. So I wait for this with baited breath, cos I use my own xG analysis of formations to tell me which formation will be the best one for FM. Thats what I did for FM20, while the 4123 has an xG of around 2.4 its xG against was less than .5 with the right kind of team. It wasn't going to score you a bagload of goals but you could be expected to perform consistently well, if you could find the right players for it. You could even improve that xG rating over time. To get that kind of information, however proved so time consuming I had to give up after like analysing 30 games. Now that information is potentially a click away? It's the first time they are implementing it, and they turned it into a headline feature, so expectations will naturally be high.

As far as the other features go, well, to be honest it really depends on your point of view. Media and player interactions need an improvement, that's a fact.  But that won't please everyone,  Well for a game thats touted to be about football management, I guess its a good thing you keep improving that aspect. There are others though like international management and optimizing network and draft mode gaming that need attention as well. The game is meant to be a simulation of imperfect human behavior, so that's always going to be a challenge , but I would also hope that we get collision animation into the game.  It's been the one missing piece for a long time.

Oddly enough I was dreaming last night of a new role, and the option to have ball playing defenders doing overlaps. BPD overlapping can happen and has happened in FM21 but its a curious conjunction of events in a game that need to occur and it isn't a strategy that you can rely on. So last night I dreamt it appeared in the game, however it was an interesting TI, cos it would only work well if you chose the right roles in central midfield.  Here's hoping dreams come true.

[PotKettleBlack]

5 hours ago, Britrock said:

It's hardly their fault they have no competition, in fact it says a lot about how good the game is that no one has even attempted to start a football sim to compete with them.

Not true, Football is a liscening and logisitics nightmare. There have also been a good fews sims over the years, along with mobile iterations.

[Sherkey]

10 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Personally I am surprised to read xG even made it into the game. For quite a while I thought there was some serious doubts as to its inclusion into the game. I am glad its in, and I do remember quite a number of people making detailed requests and thorough explanations on how this could help them evaluate their tactics better. There are several ways we can approach xG and speculating at this point is worthless until we see it. The fact that they partnered with a reputable data provider spells hope, I for one am very very interested in the algorithm. 

For a long time many of us including me absolutely detested clear cut chances as a metric. It was the only one in the game, and it never separated chances from dead ball situations. To find out whether your tactic was any good, you would need to do your own detailed dive into visual + stats. And for many people it was too time consuming. Now with xG, how far will they go? If they go all the way with it, it will be fantastic.

Having an xG table for teams and players, now that would be phenomenal. Why? Cos if a striker has a low xG and a high goal return, it's not always a good thing. His luck could run out. So I wait for this with baited breath, cos I use my own xG analysis of formations to tell me which formation will be the best one for FM. Thats what I did for FM20, while the 4123 has an xG of around 2.4 its xG against was less than .5 with the right kind of team. It wasn't going to score you a bagload of goals but you could be expected to perform consistently well, if you could find the right players for it. You could even improve that xG rating over time. To get that kind of information, however proved so time consuming I had to give up after like analysing 30 games. Now that information is potentially a click away? It's the first time they are implementing it, and they turned it into a headline feature, so expectations will naturally be high.

As far as the other features go, well, to be honest it really depends on your point of view. Media and player interactions need an improvement, that's a fact.  But that won't please everyone,  Well for a game thats touted to be about football management, I guess its a good thing you keep improving that aspect. There are others though like international management and optimizing network and draft mode gaming that need attention as well. The game is meant to be a simulation of imperfect human behavior, so that's always going to be a challenge , but I would also hope that we get collision animation into the game.  It's been the one missing piece for a long time.

Oddly enough I was dreaming last night of a new role, and the option to have ball playing defenders doing overlaps. BPD overlapping can happen and has happened in FM21 but its a curious conjunction of events in a game that need to occur and it isn't a strategy that you can rely on. So last night I dreamt it appeared in the game, however it was an interesting TI, cos it would only work well if you chose the right roles in central midfield.  Here's hoping dreams come true.

Yeah, I'm excited about how they calculate it and what the implications are for the same. They mentioned they take height of the ball and a lot of other metrics. If they have actually taken it all the way, it will make for some very interesting analysis - For example, if I am a side who mainly depends on crossing with Target Men - even getting someone like an Aguero or a Dybala would not significantly affect my xG of the team, since the play is not suited for those kind of players, despite them being stone cold finishers. And if their individual xG has dropped from the previous season, is it due to the higher defending in the league? The tactics? The position/role he is playing in - it opens up quite a few interesting possibilities.

If they have actually managed to go in-depth into something like this, it'll be brilliant. But considering Covid, I'm tempering my expectations. IT could just be an overview, and we may have a detailed analysis version in the later FMs. Remains to be seen//

[Pasonen]

10 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

The game is meant to be a simulation of imperfect human behavior, so that's always going to be a challenge , but I would also hope that we get collision animation into the game. 

Very very much thinking same! In my opinion collision animations missing ofc shows most in corners and crosses, should I say in all box plays. This hits a wedge between game and realistic presentation.

[XaW]

14 hours ago, grade said:

As is things are not fine, because many users feel this lack of engagement with SI developers with their fan base. No matter how much, Neil say they are listening to their fanbase and what not, the example in the forums as is showing us otherwise. Thus you have these sort of threads.

And even if SI developers, don't want to engage directly with us in the forums, they can do it other ways, like making Youtube videos. they don't need bother reply on the comment section, but by giving information to us, being present is indirectly engaging us, but engaging with us nonetheless. I think things would be better.

Devs used to be here all the time, but look at a lot of the messages in this thread (and I don't even want to know what was written on all the deleted ones!) and see if that's an environment that a dev would like to interact in?

The thing is, most of the devs love talking about the game and explaining things, but if players hassle and insult at every opportunity, then why would they continue? I've asked several things in here over the years and gotten answered most of my questions by a dev. So they will still occasionally answer things, but the amount of ******** they have to take in here should be far less. I'd love for the devs to come in here and interact more with everyone, but I have no problem understanding why they don't.

[ferrarinseb]

2 minutes ago, XaW said:

Devs used to be here all the time, but look at a lot of the messages in this thread (and I don't even want to know what was written on all the deleted ones!) and see if that's an environment that a dev would like to interact in?

The thing is, most of the devs love talking about the game and explaining things, but if players hassle and insult at every opportunity, then why would they continue? I've asked several things in here over the years and gotten answered most of my questions by a dev. So they will still occasionally answer things, but the amount of ******** they have to take in here should be far less. I'd love for the devs to come in here and interact more with everyone, but I have no problem understanding why they don't.

Then as he mentioned if they want to interact they can create Dev Diaries and release them in YT/Twitch/Insta/Twitter. They don't need to come and check here on what the video is discussed by posts. Given the feedback is taken the good feedback can be given to Devs about their Videos just like how it goes by forum members. 

[saihtam]

10 hours ago, majesticeternity said:

after reading the Pcgamesn article, thought I’d give my two cents, for whatever it’s worth...

A lot of people are upset about SI’s decisions, and lack of improvement. As an amateur programmer and fiddling with FM editing, I do have sympathy for them. 

they created a massive program with way too many facets to maintain/improve without a huge team of workers. With this “engine patch” business, the “editors” have said they are a team working night and day with their daily lives being affected, they are working so hard. And that’s just ONE file out of the millions of files or aspects of FM to manage. It’s mind boggling the work SI has to do. 

how can anyone expect SI to handle adding substantial new features, fix current issues, update the monstrous database, fix the ME, prepare it for all the different computer setups and programs, etc, etc??

how can they work on new features when people are asking them to fix the match time to 13:30 on Sundays for some English lower league club, update a rule for a Peruvian 3rd division league, update players numbers, attributes, contracts, clubs, heights, history, and everything else? Not to mention the clubs themselves, The leagues, rules, competitions, nations, etc, etc.

Then the ME alone, they could do nothing else but spend 1000s of hours working on it and not get it right and have all that time wasted. 
 

It’s an impossible task. Try to have some understanding for them. 

That said, there arent a ton of excuses for SI’s poor game development, as they can use the community who are begging to help them, interact with us better, give us more tools, tell us to leave them alone about minor database changes they gave us the ability to fix ourselves, focus on the things that are most important, and whatever other options. 

they have few excuses to make existing things worse. As was mentioned already, the crowd colors are terrible. It took me about 5 mins to load up GIMP, google “pant colors” and “shirt colors”, Color Cop the image colors, put those colors into the file, and about 15 mins more to test, and done. It’s not hard. 

just look at what the people in the Editors Hideaway have accomplished, and that’s each of them a single person fiddling in their free time. 

FM has gone backwards on regen faces, stadiums, and all the other things already mentioned. Last year players had Club likes and dislikes, this year that was gone. Ass mans, broken. Youth teams, primarily useless. Promises, many issues. Club vision, many issues. And of course, don’t even mention the ME.
 

we can’t know the motives or issues SI’s staff have, but to me that doesn’t matter. It seems they are trying hard, but have lost the plot. 
 

It’s easy to do when you have hundreds of people telling you to do so many different things, one tells you “better AI!” another says “No! Better graphics!”, another says “No! Better ME!” They can’t do it all at once.
 

So, many people have asked for better interactions, and they’re trying to do that, and we’re still not happy?? What’s wrong with the user base?

Either you’ve lost the plot, SI, or your marketing is terrible. 
 

“here, now you can click a button to hug your players!” Ok...Cuz out of all the things that could be added to FM, we’ve been dying to hug our players...what does that DO for us? What is the purpose of these buttons? Just to add story telling and more pissed off players if you do it wrong? Tell us how it benefits us, and we may be happier.

From the article: “Davidson says he’s used the feature when he’s had players out on loan who have been growing dissatisfied with the amount of playing time they’ve been getting – using Quick Chats, he can send a short message to the assistant manager to ask about getting them some more time on the field”

am I hallucinating, or isn’t that basically an option that we’ve been using for a while now?? We can chat with the loan club and say give them more playing time...

 isn’t the above just rewording how we could already compliment the players?

 

“that lets you see each individual journalist in attendance, and you’ll be able to read their reactions to what’s being said as the conference progresses“  
yes, because knowing some random journalists reaction to my words is how press conferences are made interesting....

“you’ll get a briefing from your press officer that gives you a rundown on the media who will be in attendance, their level of prestige, and the topics they’re likely to ask you to discuss”
 

again, don’t we already have a screen telling us the likely topics? And why do we need something to tell us in more detail what questions that are going to be asked, when we will click a couple buttons and actually be asked them? Do we need to prep and think of an answer beforehand, instead of just being asked the question and thinking for a few mins before giving an answer if we have to? Will there be a timer? 

These new features may be worthwhile once we have all the info and play them ourselves. It may just be poor marketing right now. 
 

but even so, even if there wasnt enough time to implement some of the amazing features the community has suggested, and try to code something new, which may break something else, giving us instead a button to smile is not what 90% of the user base thinks is fun or exciting. 
 

it would have been better to say “ our features are that we improved whats already In FM so you can use the current features! Better AI, team building, club vision , staff advice, AI player development, Fixed players turning into turtles at 31, added weather effects, fixed promises, fixed OP morale, repetitive manager formations and tactic styles” and whatever else. 
 

THAT would be exciting, not making a gesture in a team meeting or press conference that a lot of people already delegate to staff, or having a varied version of the already-there “find me a left back” scouting function.  
 

unless the ME is great this year, in all, it’s extremely disappointing, to many people who had a tough year, and wanted something to look forward to. 
 

So, it is understandable people vent their frustration, but wrong to do so in a mean or overreactive way. We should all be courteous.
 

Still, SI and those working with them should know when they have let down the customers, or were “off the mark”,  and be willing to admit it, and maybe even fix it in future, rather than being offended, or ignoring, defending, and deleting user’s opinions. 

This should be pinned to this topic.

[Pasonen]

18 minutes ago, XaW said:

Devs used to be here all the time, but look at a lot of the messages in this thread (and I don't even want to know what was written on all the deleted ones!) and see if that's an environment that a dev would like to interact in?

I have to say I felt poisoned time to time after this thread opened and I came here. Negativity will get us or at least me (I) nowhere. Yes like many have said FM is not perfect but to set your brain on a negative mode just makes you blind. Not seeing the other facts what differs from yours. Selfishness is first step to stupidity.. there I said it and I'm sorry. I'm no "blind fanboy", but I really like get things done and negativity and "what I want rant" doesn't help in being constructive. 

Really close not send this but.. oh well. Here it goes.

[angelo994]

To be honest, I do not understand the people complaining about “negativity” in this thread? Personally I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the discussion here. I think criticism, where warranted is perfectly fair and reasonable. There are things that we all want improved. That is just a fact. But I think it’s also clear that most of us also love this game (to a fault maybe lol) as we spend 1000s of hours each year playing it.