FM24 - PC/Laptop advice thread *** PLEASE READ OPENING POST BEFORE POSTING ***

[Delicate Dave]

Internal vs External

External anything depends on the speed of the USB on your laptop but even the latest version with the fastest external drive right now is only advertised at 3000 MBps

Internal anything depends on the interface & design of the motherboard, The latest drives and interface are advertised to be around 7000 MBps

For 99.9% of people, the most you could expect is 3500 MBps internal, and if you upgrade your drive to 6000 MBps. With an external drive if most people will be at least up to USB 2 with would be about 500 MBps but the lastest and things like thunderbolt would make them comparable it internal speeds in most ways. Big things coming in both internal & external.

How this affects FM play really depends on how they code but the things you'll be looking to improve updating storage is load time, save time and if you are doing other things on you machine like browsing, playing music etc then caching also come into it. I posted because clearly changing a drive that runs a 100 MBps to one that runs at 3000 MBps is a difference I notice. Not only with FM but also starting the laptop and moving files, I have laughed because ever since I had this laptop I've been moaning about how slow the file transfer was, I initially bought it to edit photos. Didn't even think about testing the drives as it was a new i7 laptop in 2021

[Uncle Adi]

On 24/09/2024 at 22:39, Uncle Adi said:

Thanks Dave, it's a Dell Optiplex 3020 with 8GB RAM, Intel(R) HD Graphics 4400, Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-4160 CPU @ 3.60GHz   3.60 GHz, I think 500mb HDD & Windows 10 Pro

I've upgraded the RAM on my PC and it's now time to attempt the SSD.

I've decided to basically copy this guy without the windows install bit at the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnu_AdLQ_po

So the plan is to keep the existing HDD as the main hard drive and the SSD will just be for FM (and possibly any future games).

Anyway, assuming I get it installed ok is it as simple as moving all of the FM files across and hey presto, or is there anything else to do or a better way to do it please?

 

[kevhamster]

1 hour ago, Uncle Adi said:

I've upgraded the RAM on my PC and it's now time to attempt the SSD.

I've decided to basically copy this guy without the windows install bit at the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnu_AdLQ_po

So the plan is to keep the existing HDD as the main hard drive and the SSD will just be for FM (and possibly any future games).

Anyway, assuming I get it installed ok is it as simple as moving all of the FM files across and hey presto, or is there anything else to do or a better way to do it please?

 

To be honest, you probably want the system drive to be on an SSD rather than an HDD.  

My advice would be to clone the HDD to the SSD using something like Macrium Reflect, and keep the HDD as additional storage.

[Uncle Adi]

6 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

To be honest, you probably want the system drive to be on an SSD rather than an HDD.  

My advice would be to clone the HDD to the SSD using something like Macrium Reflect, and keep the HDD as additional storage.

Thanks for the reply Kev, but please can you say why?

I don't care about making anything else faster besides FM.

[Delicate Dave]

21 minutes ago, Uncle Adi said:

Thanks for the reply Kev, but please can you say why?

I don't care about making anything else faster besides FM.

At the level you are working it's swings and roundabouts so do what's easy for now and then try it. Add the drive and format it, then simply run FM and do a save to the new drive. Then restart FM and see if it's any better. I suspect you won't get the full benefit of the new drive with moving the OS to it but as you fear doing these things I would spin of a load of instruction to do that.

[spursfan]

8 hours ago, Smurf said:

You're partially right, but it's more nuanced.

External SSDs can be slower than internal SSDs, but this mainly depends on factors like

Connection Type:
The speed of external SSDs is heavily dependent on the interface.
For example, an external SSD connected via USB 3.0 or USB-C might be slower than an internal SSD connected via PCIe (NVMe).
However, if you use a Thunderbolt 3 or USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 interface, external SSDs can perform almost as fast as some internal SSDs.

Drive Type:
Internal SSDs can use the NVMe protocol, which is significantly faster than SATA-based SSDs, whether internal or external. Many external SSDs still use SATA, so they'll be slower compared to NVMe internal drives.
However, there are external SSDs with NVMe drives that perform much faster.

Overheads: External
SSDs may have some performance overhead due to the additional components (cables, enclosures, controllers), which can slightly reduce speeds compared to internal SSDs that are directly connected to the motherboard.

In short, external SSDs are generally slower than high-end internal ones, especially NVMe drives, but they can still be pretty fast with the right interface and drive type.

 

For Football Manager saves or general computer operations, the difference between external and internal SSDs is likely not that noticeable in most cases.

Football Manager save files aren't particularly large compared to files used in video editing or gaming with huge texture loads. Therefore, even on a slower external SSD, saving or loading FM saves won’t take long, typically within seconds.

While internal NVMe SSDs would load Football Manager a bit faster than external SSDs, the difference might only be a few seconds. Unless you're constantly loading or saving large amounts of data, the performance gap isn't dramatic for FM’s operations.

For things like database processing (the heart of Football Manager), the game relies more on CPU and RAM than SSD speed. The faster SSD might help when the game needs to read/write data, but it’s not a major bottleneck compared to other hardware components.

NVMe internal SSDs are faster, for Football Manager saves and general operation, an external SSD (even with USB-C or USB 3.0) should be more than sufficient, and the difference is unlikely to impact your gaming experience.

Wow thanks, much appreciated -- my lagtop has been plugged into an external HDD (which probably explains the lag) 

[Uncle Adi]

1 hour ago, Delicate Dave said:

At the level you are working it's swings and roundabouts so do what's easy for now and then try it. Add the drive and format it, then simply run FM and do a save to the new drive. Then restart FM and see if it's any better. I suspect you won't get the full benefit of the new drive with moving the OS to it but as you fear doing these things I would spin of a load of instruction to do that.

Thanks Dave. Pardon my ignorance here as I'm not that great with computers, but are you guys saying that FM should run faster if Windows and everything else is running off the SSD as well instead of leaving it on the HDD?

[kevhamster]

2 hours ago, Uncle Adi said:

Thanks for the reply Kev, but please can you say why?

I don't care about making anything else faster besides FM.

The reason in a nutshell is it means the operating system runs faster, which means the computer as a whole runs faster.

[Smurf]

2 hours ago, Uncle Adi said:

Thanks for the reply Kev, but please can you say why?

I don't care about making anything else faster besides FM.

 

 

4 hours ago, Uncle Adi said:

I've upgraded the RAM on my PC and it's now time to attempt the SSD.

I've decided to basically copy this guy without the windows install bit at the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnu_AdLQ_po

So the plan is to keep the existing HDD as the main hard drive and the SSD will just be for FM (and possibly any future games).

Anyway, assuming I get it installed ok is it as simple as moving all of the FM files across and hey presto, or is there anything else to do or a better way to do it please?

 

 

2 hours ago, kevhamster said:

To be honest, you probably want the system drive to be on an SSD rather than an HDD.  

My advice would be to clone the HDD to the SSD using something like Macrium Reflect, and keep the HDD as additional storage.

 

2 hours ago, Uncle Adi said:

Thanks for the reply Kev, but please can you say why?

I don't care about making anything else faster besides FM.

 

2 hours ago, Delicate Dave said:

At the level you are working it's swings and roundabouts so do what's easy for now and then try it. Add the drive and format it, then simply run FM and do a save to the new drive. Then restart FM and see if it's any better. I suspect you won't get the full benefit of the new drive with moving the OS to it but as you fear doing these things I would spin of a load of instruction to do that.

 

37 minutes ago, Uncle Adi said:

Thanks Dave. Pardon my ignorance here as I'm not that great with computers, but are you guys saying that FM should run faster if Windows and everything else is running off the SSD as well instead of leaving it on the HDD?

 

8 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

The reason in a nutshell is it means the operating system runs faster, which means the computer as a whole runs faster.

Just to add to the discussion

Moving FM to the SSD will definitely help with faster loading times, but if you’re looking to get the most out of your SSD, having the operating system on it as well can make a noticeable difference to overall performance. It’s not just about FM specifically; a faster OS means better responsiveness across everything, which can indirectly boost how smooth FM feels.

That said, starting with just moving FM to the SSD and seeing how it performs is a solid approach. If you don’t notice enough improvement, cloning your HDD to the SSD later is always an option.

[Uncle Adi]

Thanks for all the help and patience guys. As it happens I'm having a hard enough time installing the drive so it's definitely a case of one step at a time!

[Delicate Dave]

1 hour ago, Uncle Adi said:

Thanks Dave. Pardon my ignorance here as I'm not that great with computers, but are you guys saying that FM should run faster if Windows and everything else is running off the SSD as well instead of leaving it on the HDD?

Again, at your level yes, if the CPU and other things were more powerful the advantage would be less. If you want to move your OS to a new SSD often the SSD manufacturer has software you can use for that. Samsung for example have Something call Drive Magician (I think) but the are other software apps that can do it only some are a bit complicated for the novice.

Of course you don't need to move the OS, you could always start fresh with the SSD and install Windows on that. Then take the HD out and save it as a backup for a while if you don't need the storage space on it. The if the SSD goes bang (very unlikely) you have a ready made replacement with OS setup ready to go. Like is full of options :-)

Edited Monday at 17:13 by Delicate Dave

[spursfan]

9 hours ago, Smurf said:

To be honest, you probably want the system drive to be on an SSD rather than an HDD.  

My advice would be to clone the HDD to the SSD using something like Macrium Reflect, and keep the HDD as additional storage.

Oh, so it would be better for both the OS and FM to be on SSD?
Think with a laptop it would already be done, yes (I believe most only have 1 drive so it'll be the SSD)?

[Smurf]

3 hours ago, spursfan said:

Oh, so it would be better for both the OS and FM to be on SSD?
Think with a laptop it would already be done, yes (I believe most only have 1 drive so it'll be the SSD)?

If it's only 1 drive and it's a SSD then that's the only place the OS can go.

[tcoleman1]

Hello again everybody,

I am still yet to purchase a new laptop despite a number of previous posts. In the end I decided to wait for the FM 25 specs to be announced and whilst I imagine we still don't know if the ones released apply, at least it gives me something to work with.

I would appreciate opinions on the following:

https://www.very.co.uk/msi-cyborg-15-ai-gaming-laptop-geforce-rtx-4050-intel-core-ultra-7-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd--156in-fhd-black/1601090728.prd - price for me will be around £800 after discount

https://www.very.co.uk/msi-sword-16-hx-gaming-laptop-geforce-rtx-4060-intel-core-i7-16gb-ram-1tb--ssd--16in-qhd-grey/1601090722.prd - again I can get this down to just under £800. This would probably be my current favourite as seems to offer a lot for the price!

https://www.very.co.uk/acer-nitro-v-16-gaming-laptop--geforce-rtx-4050-amd-ryzen-7-8845hs-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd-16in-black/1601057296.prd - price would be about £720

https://flic.kr/p/2qnWMvt - this is a Lenovo Loq spec that I have created which is quite a nice spec however the price is £875 and appears I have missed a deal as I had this spec in my basket for about £825 last week.

Would greatly appreciate views on all of these but understand it's a fair few I have posted. My current favourite is probably the MSI Sword 16 but obviously have seen concerns around intel HX chips and am unsure of pricing for MSI extended warranties as I would probably want to try to extend at some point for longevity.

[kevhamster]

3 hours ago, tcoleman1 said:

Hello again everybody,

I am still yet to purchase a new laptop despite a number of previous posts. In the end I decided to wait for the FM 25 specs to be announced and whilst I imagine we still don't know if the ones released apply, at least it gives me something to work with.

I would appreciate opinions on the following:

https://www.very.co.uk/msi-cyborg-15-ai-gaming-laptop-geforce-rtx-4050-intel-core-ultra-7-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd--156in-fhd-black/1601090728.prd - price for me will be around £800 after discount

https://www.very.co.uk/msi-sword-16-hx-gaming-laptop-geforce-rtx-4060-intel-core-i7-16gb-ram-1tb--ssd--16in-qhd-grey/1601090722.prd - again I can get this down to just under £800. This would probably be my current favourite as seems to offer a lot for the price!

https://www.very.co.uk/acer-nitro-v-16-gaming-laptop--geforce-rtx-4050-amd-ryzen-7-8845hs-16gb-ram-512gb-ssd-16in-black/1601057296.prd - price would be about £720

https://flic.kr/p/2qnWMvt - this is a Lenovo Loq spec that I have created which is quite a nice spec however the price is £875 and appears I have missed a deal as I had this spec in my basket for about £825 last week.

Would greatly appreciate views on all of these but understand it's a fair few I have posted. My current favourite is probably the MSI Sword 16 but obviously have seen concerns around intel HX chips and am unsure of pricing for MSI extended warranties as I would probably want to try to extend at some point for longevity.

https://www.very.co.uk/msi-sword-16-hx-gaming-laptop-geforce-rtx-4060-intel-core-i7-16gb-ram-1tb--ssd--16in-qhd-grey/1601090722.prd is the one I'd go for.

The final one is basically the same spec as the Acer one, but without an operating system installed.

[tcoleman1]

15 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

https://www.very.co.uk/msi-sword-16-hx-gaming-laptop-geforce-rtx-4060-intel-core-i7-16gb-ram-1tb--ssd--16in-qhd-grey/1601090722.prd is the one I'd go for.

The final one is basically the same spec as the Acer one, but without an operating system installed.

Yes, that was definetely the one that intrigued me the most.

I have also seen this which appears to be almost identical spec but slightly cheaper:

https://www.very.co.uk/msi-crosshair-gaming-laptop-geforce-rtx-4060-intel-core-i7-16gb-ram-1tb-ssd-16in-qhd-2560x1600-black/1601035403.prd?cm_mmc=google-_-PLA+-+Generic-_--_-__&utm_campaign=Generic_Electricals+-+Laptops+-+PMAX&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_term=&campaigntype=shopping&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwpbi4BhByEiwAMC8Jncu8A4PrnEHZB9u9gbkSbv5blN5LZwldDc2MfclQ93WvxqkbEq1ydxoCXvMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#sku=sku27867776

Reviews for both seems decent although I have read a few bits about poor build quality with cheaper MSI laptops so will do some research on the extended warranty prices!

[kevhamster]

1 hour ago, tcoleman1 said:

Yes, that was definetely the one that intrigued me the most.

I have also seen this which appears to be almost identical spec but slightly cheaper:

https://www.very.co.uk/msi-crosshair-gaming-laptop-geforce-rtx-4060-intel-core-i7-16gb-ram-1tb-ssd-16in-qhd-2560x1600-black/1601035403.prd?cm_mmc=google-_-PLA+-+Generic-_--_-__&utm_campaign=Generic_Electricals+-+Laptops+-+PMAX&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_term=&campaigntype=shopping&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwpbi4BhByEiwAMC8Jncu8A4PrnEHZB9u9gbkSbv5blN5LZwldDc2MfclQ93WvxqkbEq1ydxoCXvMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#sku=sku27867776

Reviews for both seems decent although I have read a few bits about poor build quality with cheaper MSI laptops so will do some research on the extended warranty prices!

Yeah, spec wise they seem to be the same.