Happiness and relationship to hidden attributes

[nully29]

Until today, I have never used an in-game editor or any tools to look into hidden attributes. In fact, I have played with a "no attributes and no stars" skin

. So, I spend some time trying to tell what a player is based on hints that the game gives. I have long presumed the following:

 

Unhappy with early start of preseason - low professionalism

Feels he is well-supported over and issues due to popularity in the room - high controversy

Happy/delighted/enjoying the club - high loyalty

Unhappy with low training workload - high professionalism and/or ambitions. 

Happy with how club is being managed - low controversy

Happy how his manager is treating him (without me doing anything at all) - low controversy.

Dressing room fit is determined by differences between team's average personality and player's personality attributes.

Today I opened in-game editor and learned that I was wrong on all of it save the first one. If a player is unhappy about early preseason, he is indeed unprofessional. As for the rest, I have failed to trace any connections to any hidden attributes. It seems just either random, or a result of some complicated equation that I have yet to figure out.

Edited May 6, 2021 by nully29

[Freakiie]

I mean, you're making a moment snapshot and are trying to apply that to the happiness system overall, of course that's not gonna give you any real results. Especially considering that some of your assumptions are rather farfetched.

Why should someone with high controversy be unable to be happy with how the club is being managed? If things are going well, he's getting the playtime he wants, why would he kick up a fuss about the clubs management or complain about how you treat him? Heck, a Balotelli cashing in fat paychecks at City was probably very happy at the club, even if City wasn't very happy with him!

Why should a player only ever be happy to be at the club when his loyalty is high? Again, if the club is performing great, why would a player be unhappy to be there unless there are some other issues? If someone has low loyalty and simply plays for the paycheck, if your club is the club where he gets that paycheck, why would he be unhappy? Sure he'll quickly kick up a fuss if he thinks a club that could offer him a bigger paycheck is interested in him, but until then he'll be happy as long as the paycheck is there.

Unless you track a players reactions to various events over a period of time, under different situations, it's going to be very hard to determine certain personalities.

[nully29]

3 hours ago, Freakiie said:

I mean, you're making a moment snapshot and are trying to apply that to the happiness system overall, of course that's not gonna give you any real results. Especially considering that some of your assumptions are rather farfetched.

Why should someone with high controversy be unable to be happy with how the club is being managed? If things are going well, he's getting the playtime he wants, why would he kick up a fuss about the clubs management or complain about how you treat him? Heck, a Balotelli cashing in fat paychecks at City was probably very happy at the club, even if City wasn't very happy with him!

Why should a player only ever be happy to be at the club when his loyalty is high? Again, if the club is performing great, why would a player be unhappy to be there unless there are some other issues? If someone has low loyalty and simply plays for the paycheck, if your club is the club where he gets that paycheck, why would he be unhappy? Sure he'll quickly kick up a fuss if he thinks a club that could offer him a bigger paycheck is interested in him, but until then he'll be happy as long as the paycheck is there.

Unless you track a players reactions to various events over a period of time, under different situations, it's going to be very hard to determine certain personalities.

What you say is that controversial players can also be happy. Yes, they can. The point is not about a controversial players being happy, but rather about the following phenomenon:

Some players are just randomly "happy about how club is being managed". It's usually 1 or 2 players out of ~25 men rosters. There must be something that makes them feel this way. I also found that those same players are also happy about how manager is treating him. They remain happy about those things throughout their whole time with the club. But why? I asked, but no one could explain this phenomenon.

Other players, usually 1-2 out of a squad, feel they are well supported over any issues. Why? Others are just happy to be important part of a core social group. I thought, wording about "issues" is a hint by the game about player's potential controversy. But it isn't. So, what it is? Just a random different wording? Or some elaborated calculation that factors is reputation, squad status, age and club's status? 

 

Similaly, some players are worried about squad lacking depth in certain areas, while others don't. Some players are unhappy with training while others are happy. Why? What attributes make them behave this way? 

Edited May 5, 2021 by nully29

[XaW]

I don't know if anyone would want to know the specifics, but to test things like this there is many more variables you would need to control that you either haven't mentioned or glassed over with very little care. If you want to test these things what about player reputation vs club reputation vs team mate reputation? How well the players like the manger and/or the club and/or his team mates? Are they happy with their contract vs how well the others are payed? Do they have different short and/or long term plans? How much game time do they have vs what they expect? Are the players in different stages of their careers?

All these things would factor in how happy the player is at the club and you haven't said anything about controlling these variables at all. Also in order to see how these things affect each others, you would have to run this experiment in a tight control in regards to game time, interest from other teams, international happiness, etc, etc. All the different factors would have to be controlled if you want to try to find something. And even if you do, how do you control the causation of things, only finding correlation is not enough to say X does Y. Also, there is reason to think any type of combination of these things, as well as personality traits could impact happiness in different scenarios. 

Handling all these factors would be amazingly time consuming. If you really want to, then knock yourself out, but you need to take a much more controlled approach to make any theories plausible.

[nully29]

10 hours ago, XaW said:

I don't know if anyone would want to know the specifics, but to test things like this there is many more variables you would need to control that you either haven't mentioned or glassed over with very little care. If you want to test these things what about player reputation vs club reputation vs team mate reputation? How well the players like the manger and/or the club and/or his team mates? Are they happy with their contract vs how well the others are payed? Do they have different short and/or long term plans? How much game time do they have vs what they expect? Are the players in different stages of their careers?

All these things would factor in how happy the player is at the club and you haven't said anything about controlling these variables at all. Also in order to see how these things affect each others, you would have to run this experiment in a tight control in regards to game time, interest from other teams, international happiness, etc, etc. All the different factors would have to be controlled if you want to try to find something. And even if you do, how do you control the causation of things, only finding correlation is not enough to say X does Y. Also, there is reason to think any type of combination of these things, as well as personality traits could impact happiness in different scenarios. 

Handling all these factors would be amazingly time consuming. If you really want to, then knock yourself out, but you need to take a much more controlled approach to make any theories plausible.

Let's say, the game ran some calculation that weigh many factors and ended up with "Player feels he is well-supported over any potential issues". Does it actually mean, that this player is more likely to take issues with me? If not, is there any practical difference between a player, who feels he is well-supported and a player, who is happy to be a big part of core social group?

[XaW]

26 minutes ago, nully29 said:

Let's say, the game ran some calculation that weigh many factors and ended up with "Player feels he is well-supported over any potential issues". Does it actually mean, that this player is more likely to take issues with me? If not, is there any practical difference between a player, who feels he is well-supported and a player, who is happy to be a big part of core social group?

Try to imagine it like a job in real life. Some people go to the same boring job with the jerk boss and horrible coworkers and just endure it. Others will leave if that happens. However, even if your boss is a jerk, you could still stay if the job is good and you really like your coworkers. Or if you love the job, and have a great relationship with your boss, but you don't like the people you work with, you can still stay on.

Of course, it's much more nuanced than that for most people, but you get the point. That's also something the game tries to mirror. Players have a lot of factors that govern their happiness, and the higher the happiness, the fewer things they will bring up and vice versa. Of course, I would expect their personality to _influence_ all of this, but if someone hates his job, coworkers, and boss, he'd have a poor time no matter how professional he is...

[nully29]

Ok guys, I have played with editor a bit and here what I've learned:

 

Feels supported over any issues = low loyalty OR low professionalism OR high controversy. Also, there's a hint about adaptability. Reasonably well-supported means low adaptability, extremely well supported means high adaptability.

 

Player likes how the club is being managed is calculated as "loyalty+temperament-pressure". 

 

Proud of club's position (rather than happy to see club doing well) means high loyalty.

 

Also. Not surprised that the team is doing so well under you means high loyalty. While "feels the team is doing so well because of your influence" means <14 loyalty.

Edited May 6, 2021 by nully29