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The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570

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Lucas

Lucas

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28 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

I just don't want to see Rice in that midfield if there is a back 5 behind him. Henderson or Bellingham alongside Phillips.

Not my preferred team either, I'm just predicting what Southgate will do. 

Would love it if Bellingham or dare I say it, Sancho starts :D 

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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

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Just now, EnterUsernameHere said:

Old news as in everyone assumed it or as in Rashford had already talked about it? 

Missed it if it's the latter. Not a surprise either way though, aye.

Both really, Ole had already hinted he'd need shoulder surgery which would put him out for a little while, but they had no intention of doing it before the Euros and would assess afterwards

 

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EnterUsernameHere

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

Both really, Ole had already hinted he'd need shoulder surgery which would put him out for a little while, but they had no intention of doing it before the Euros and would assess afterwards

 

Fair enough. Found it a bit weird he's only going to decide after a few weeks break post Euros, but yeah it's hardly a secret he's been carrying an injury or two.

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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

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Just now, EnterUsernameHere said:

Fair enough. Found it a bit weird he's only going to decide after a few weeks break post Euros, but yeah it's hardly a secret he's been carrying an injury or two.

It's almost definitely linked to the purchase of Sancho and United not wanting to be light up front for the start of the season. Yeah he's got an ankle niggle too. I think they want to deal with both at the same time to minimise time out. Personally the lad needs proper rest

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EnterUsernameHere

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

It's almost definitely linked to the purchase of Sancho and United not wanting to be light up front for the start of the season. Yeah he's got an ankle niggle too. I think they want to deal with both at the same time to minimise time out. Personally the lad needs proper rest

Had the same thought r.e. Sancho.

I don't think he should have went to the Euros just to be a bench player, but also difficult to criticise him for it either. 

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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

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2 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Had the same thought r.e. Sancho.

I don't think he should have went to the Euros just to be a bench player, but also difficult to criticise him for it either. 

You won't find many United fans disagreeing, but he absolutely loves playing for England so nothing was going to stop him if he was getting selected

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TalkSport

TalkSport

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8 hours ago, Lucas said:

Pretty sure we did exactly that for Croatia in 18 tbf. 
 

Do think we will start a bit slow and leave the attacking options for the second half. 

We played the same team and formation throughout the knockout, and pretty much the same for first 2 group games bar one change in on of the games.

Pickford: Walker, Stones, Maguire: Henderson sitting: Trippier, Lingard, Alli, Young: Sterling, Kane

High chance we could end up reverting back to that but with like Rice, Shaw +1 replacing Lingard, Alli and Young :/

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samuelawachie

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Why does everyone all of a sudden have Kane in their lineup? 
The prevailing narrative before his slightly better performance in the 1st half of the last game was that he was either carrying an injury, or he wasn’t giving the cause the commitment it deserved. 
Interesting change!

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Bigwig

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People keep posting who they think Southgate will pick but also leaving out Mount who is one of the first on his team sheets.

Is he still unavailable to play or do people really expect Southgate to suddenly bench him?

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The_jagster

The_jagster

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2 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

People keep posting who they think Southgate will pick but also leaving out Mount who is one of the first on his team sheets.

Is he still unavailable to play or do people really expect Southgate to suddenly bench him?

Southgate said something like "it would be difficult for them to come in immediately after isolation" so it implied he would only pick Chilwell or Mount once they'd be training with the squad again.

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craigcwwe

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12 hours ago, skybluedave said:

It seems weird to change formation now though. We were always getting out the group and always going to have a tough 2nd round game. Why not just use 343 in group stage then if your intention was to change to it for knockout. 

Don't think it's weird. Happens a lot in football where a team will change formation for one game to match up against the opponent. I'm fully expecting a 343 on Tuesday and if we knock them out to then switch back to the 433 in the QF. 

11 hours ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Old news as in everyone assumed it or as in Rashford had already talked about it? 

Missed it if it's the latter. Not a surprise either way though, aye.

He's had the shoulder injury for about a year now and he's also dealing with an ankle problem which has been a known issue for about 6 months or so. 

I'm hoping he gets what he needs doing surgery wise if that's the route done asap, if it means he misses the start of the season for us then so be it. 

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ajw10

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59 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

People keep posting who they think Southgate will pick but also leaving out Mount who is one of the first on his team sheets.

Is he still unavailable to play or do people really expect Southgate to suddenly bench him?

He cannot train with the side into Tuesday at midnight

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EnterUsernameHere

EnterUsernameHere

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2 hours ago, samuelawachie said:

Why does everyone all of a sudden have Kane in their lineup? 
The prevailing narrative before his slightly better performance in the 1st half of the last game was that he was either carrying an injury, or he wasn’t giving the cause the commitment it deserved. 
Interesting change!

Who should start instead?

Theres no way it's DCL. And you're brave if you're saying false 9.

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Bigwig

Bigwig

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Kane is probably the safe choice to avoid being overly criticised if things go tits up.

Theoretically we could pick Kane, he doesn’t score and we go out with Kane on 0 goals for the tournament. We could also drop Kane, his replacement doesn’t score and we go out of the tournament.

Southgate would probably be criticised either way, but probably less so on the first scenario than the latter one. 

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EnterUsernameHere

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

Not even worth discussing though tbf - Kane will play

This is true. 

I can't say too much after missing most of the game on Tuesday, but I heard he was better.

Kane probably is undroppable. Sterling has made himself undroppable with those goals. I don't want to start a debate but Grealish starts on the right then, I'd have Foden in too centrally.

It'll be 3-4-3 with Rice though.

Edited by EnterUsernameHere
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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

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1 hour ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

This is true. 

I can't say too much after missing most of the game on Tuesday, but I heard he was better.

Kane probably is undroppable. Sterling has made himself undroppable with those goals. I don't want to start a debate but Grealish starts on the right then, I'd have Foden in too centrally.

It'll be 3-4-3 with Rice though.

Better but still way off what you want. The way we are playing to the front, it really should be Rashford, but given his niggles carries risks of its own. His movement right now is fair superior to Kanes, and it was movement and outright pace that was doing for them. If Mount is out, you'd think Foden and Saka, flanking Rashford (it will Kane, I would be amazed it that was not the case)

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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

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1 minute ago, Bigwig said:

I think the draw has pretty much guaranteed we’ll be sticking with Southgate beyond the tournament.

Beat Germany and it doesn’t really matter what happens next, lose and it’s understandable.

Agreed. 

I'll also add that like most people on here I hate the 3-4-3...BUT Germany really struggled to pass through one against Hungary and then struggled to defend against it as a system. When you couple that with having better players across the pitch than Hungary it makes sense for selection

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EnterUsernameHere

EnterUsernameHere

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1 hour ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

This is true. 

I can't say too much after missing most of the game on Tuesday, but I heard he was better.

Kane probably is undroppable. Sterling has made himself undroppable with those goals. I don't want to start a debate but Grealish starts on the right then, I'd have Foden in too centrally.

It'll be 3-4-3 with Rice though.

 

5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Better but still way off what you want. The way we are playing to the front, it really should be Rashford, but given his niggles carries risks of its own. His movement right now is fair superior to Kanes, and it was movement and outright pace that was doing for them. If Mount is out, you'd think Foden and Saka, flanking Rashford (it will Kane, I would be amazed it that was not the case)

I don't think Kane should be dropped, so forget about him.

At this point I don't care who starts, as long as Germany wins.

3-4-3 would be awful tho 

:lol:

 

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Rob1981

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11 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

I think the draw has pretty much guaranteed we’ll be sticking with Southgate beyond the tournament.

Beat Germany and it doesn’t really matter what happens next, lose and it’s understandable.

Plus, he’s doing a fantastic job of course.

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Hazzaj

Hazzaj

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, skybluedave said:

If you compare him to his predecessors then is doing quite a good job. But a lot depends on Tuesday. If he knocks out Germany he's probably the best manager we've had since Bobby Robson :D

He'd be the first manager to ever win a single-legged knockout match in normal time with England at a Euros, let's not forget.

Edited by Hazzaj
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The Amazing Dale Watkins

The Amazing Dale Watkins

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3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Agreed. 

I'll also add that like most people on here I hate the 3-4-3...BUT Germany really struggled to pass through one against Hungary and then struggled to defend against it as a system. When you couple that with having better players across the pitch than Hungary it makes sense for selection

Germany conceding two goals had nothing to do with Hungary's formation. On the first goal Hummels and Ginter inexplicably decided to mark the zone instead of the man, and the second they were apparently still busy calculating the standings in their heads on the kick off. Other than the goals, Hungary barely threatened the goal. The Germans will struggle defensively against any formation you pick.

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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

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Just now, The Amazing Dale Watkins said:

Germany conceding two goals had nothing to do with Hungary's formation. On the first goal Hummels and Ginter inexplicably decided to mark the zone instead of the man, and the second they were apparently still busy calculating the standings in their heads on the kick off. Other than the goals, Hungary barely threatened the goal. The Germans will struggle defensively against any formation you pick.

Their defending was calamity stuff, but attacking wise they had no idea how to pass through it. I know our record against Germany is awful, but just feels like a game where we really shouldn't be overcautious z as you say a vulnerable when you go at them

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craigcwwe

craigcwwe

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

He's on par. Done ok, will likely do a lot worse against better sides.

You say that but from when Southgate got the job in late 2016:

Wins and draws against big nations/big games. 

Drew with Spain 2-2 (a)
Drew with Germany 0-0 (h)
Drew with Brazil (h) 0-0
Beat Netherlands (a) 1-0
Drew with Italy (h) 0-0
Drew with Colombia (a) won on pens
Drew with Croatia (a) 0-0
Beat Spain (a) 3-2
Beat Croatia (h) 2-1
Beat Belgium (h) 2-1
Beat Croatia (a) 1-0

 

Of course most of them were friendlies. 

 

Edited by craigcwwe
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EnterUsernameHere

EnterUsernameHere

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Posted
23 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

You say that but from when Southgate got the job in late 2016:

Wins and draws against big nations/big games. 

Drew with Spain 2-2 (a)
Drew with Germany 0-0 (h)
Drew with Brazil (h) 0-0
Beat Netherlands (a) 1-0
Drew with Italy (h) 0-0
Drew with Colombia (a) won on pens
Drew with Croatia (a) 0-0
Beat Spain (a) 3-2
Beat Croatia (h) 2-1
Beat Belgium (h) 2-1
Beat Croatia (a) 1-0

 

Of course most of them were friendlies. 

 

Christ that's poor  by

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Marc Albrighton

Marc Albrighton

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49 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

You say that but from when Southgate got the job in late 2016:

Wins and draws against big nations/big games. 

Drew with Spain 2-2 (a)
Drew with Germany 0-0 (h)
Drew with Brazil (h) 0-0
Beat Netherlands (a) 1-0
Drew with Italy (h) 0-0
Drew with Colombia (a) won on pens
Drew with Croatia (a) 0-0
Beat Spain (a) 3-2
Beat Croatia (h) 2-1
Beat Belgium (h) 2-1
Beat Croatia (a) 1-0

 

Of course most of them were friendlies. 

 

Theres a similar pattern outside of friendlies aswell, the dullness of this Southgate team regardless of personnel is quite consistent atleast. The old a team reflecting its manager seems pretty true here.

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Hazzaj

Hazzaj

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Spoiler 

-England-

Nov '16 | D 2-2 | v Spain (7)
Mar '17 | L 0-1 | v Germany (3)
Jun '17 | L 2-3 | v France (7)
Nov '17 | D 0-0 | v Germany (3)
Nov '17 | D 0-0 | v Brazil (1)
Jun '18 | L 0-1 | v Belgium (6)
Jul '18 | L 1-2 | v Croatia (9)
Jul '18 | L 0-2 | v Belgium (3)
Sep '18 | L 1-2 | v Spain (4)
Oct '18 | D 0-0 | v Croatia (9)
Oct '18 | W 3-2 | v Spain (4)
Nov '18 | W 2-1 | v Croatia (10)
Jun '19 | L 1-3 | v Netherlands (6)
Oct '20 | W 2-1 | v Belgium (1)
Nov '20 | L 0-2 | v Belgium (2)

W3 D4 L8 [W3 D1 L6 excl. friendlies] v Top 10 teams (as rated by Elo)


-Germany-

Nov '16 | D 0-0 | v Italy (8)
Nov '16 | W 1-0 | v England (9)
Jun '17 | D 1-1 | v Chile (5)
Jun '17 | W 1-0 | v Mexico (10)
Jul '17 | W 1-0 | v Chile (8)
Nov '17 | D 0-0 | v England (10)
Nov '17 | D 2-2 | v France (6)
Mar '18 | D 1-1 | v Spain (3)
Mar '18 | L 0-1 | v Brazil (1)
Sep '18 | D 0-0 | v France (1)
Oct '18 | L 0-3 | v Netherlands (10)
Oct '18 | L 1-2 | v France (2)
Nov '18 | D 2-2 | v Netherlands (5)
Mar '19 | W 3-2 | v Netherlands (5)
Sep '19 | L 2-4 | v Netherlands (7)
Sep '20 | D 1-1 | v Spain (4)
Nov '20 | L 0-6 | v Spain (4)
Jun '21 | D 1-1 | v Denmark (9)
Jun '21 | L 0-1 | v France (3)
Jun '21 | W 4-2 | v Portugal (4)

W5 D9 L6 [W4 D4 L5 excl. friendlies] v Top 10 teams (as rated by Elo)

 

Just to give a bit more context to the above, I dug up both England and Germany's record v top ten nations since Southgate's appointment, neither look particularly impressive, though England do at least have 3 wins in their last 5 (after initially going 10 without one!)

Edited by Hazzaj
whoops missed a couple
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Baptista_8

Baptista_8

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1 hour ago, craigcwwe said:

You say that but from when Southgate got the job in late 2016:

Wins and draws against big nations/big games. 

Drew with Spain 2-2 (a)
Drew with Germany 0-0 (h)
Drew with Brazil (h) 0-0
Beat Netherlands (a) 1-0
Drew with Italy (h) 0-0
Drew with Colombia (a) won on pens
Drew with Croatia (a) 0-0
Beat Spain (a) 3-2
Beat Croatia (h) 2-1
Beat Belgium (h) 2-1
Beat Croatia (a) 1-0

Of course most of them were friendlies.

Genuinely out of interest, do you have a list of the losses for the same criteria?

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