Major Changes for FM22 Touch and Beyond Blog

[Neil Brock]

FM21 isn't supported by xCloud gaming. 

[bubba_89]

@Neil Brock

Do you know the situation regarding controller input for FM22 via xcloud streaming? Are we restricted to Xbox controller or will it work with mouse/touch input on an iPad?

 

Literally the difference between a purchase or not for me.

 

Thanks.

[zakbrown96]

Mods is it possible to have this and the thread in the touch fourm, Merged to make it a lot easier to follow instead of the same thing being said in two different threads? Haha 

[XaW]

7 minutes ago, zakbrown96 said:

Mods is it possible to have this and the thread in the touch fourm, Merged to make it a lot easier to follow instead of the same thing being said in two different threads? Haha 

Don't think it's possible to have the same thread be visible in both forums. @Neil Brock

[itsrpss]

1 hour ago, bubba_89 said:

@Neil Brock

Do you know the situation regarding controller input for FM22 via xcloud streaming? Are we restricted to Xbox controller or will it work with mouse/touch input on an iPad?

 

Literally the difference between a purchase or not for me.

 

Thanks.

It’s quite frustrating that this question keeps being ignored.

[Rascanuvols]

11 minutes ago, itsrpss said:

It’s quite frustrating that this question keeps being ignored.

I read the thread in the other forum and that's been asked several times. They just won't answer it.

 

Seriously, now for real:

 

CAN THE STREAMED XBOX EDITION BE PLAYED WITH TOUCH CONTROLS ON TABLET?

 

It's just a yes or no question, please.

[Malicious Penguin]

41 minutes ago, Rascanuvols said:

I read the thread in the other forum and that's been asked several times. They just won't answer it.

 

Seriously, now for real:

 

CAN THE STREAMED XBOX EDITION BE PLAYED WITH TOUCH CONTROLS ON TABLET?

 

It's just a yes or no question, please.

My gut is that it won't be touch controls, as it'd be something extra SI would have to do (controller is required unless dev says so), and given their lack of interest in touch.... 

[itsrpss]

22 hours ago, Rascanuvols said:

I read the thread in the other forum and that's been asked several times. They just won't answer it.

 

Seriously, now for real:

 

CAN THE STREAMED XBOX EDITION BE PLAYED WITH TOUCH CONTROLS ON TABLET?

 

It's just a yes or no question, please.

My bad, I wasn’t aware a second thread was going. Apologies if I’ve been duplicating stuff, I just saw this one pinned. 

At this point I’ve got to assume it’s a no. I don’t hang around on these forums like I did as a kid, I just check in once a year for the new version announcements. So I’ll leave one last post that they’ll probably ignore, then move on. Not the end of the world.

If you’re going to announce you’re killing a game but give people other ways of playing something similar, you’ve got to do better than this. I get that you can’t continue to develop something that isn’t financially viable (although I still think iPad Pro is a missed opportunity for something amazing, you’re still developing the game for Switch so it seems mad to not make it available here as well) but giving some info and then walking away is a little disrespectful. The initial post gives a load of unnecessary fluff and very little actual info. This late in the cycle I don’t believe that the features and functionality isn’t tied down, so it’s pretty unreasonable to ignore valid questions.

We shouldn’t need some MBA type to create a product matrix to understand if we can play the game, and frankly the one you’ve posted asks more questions than it answers.

Can we play the Xbox version via xCloud with touch/mouse/keyboard controls on iPad? This is being positioned as the alternative for us iPad users, so we should at least understand what we’re going to get. 

Can we play the full version via xCloud with touch/mouse/keyboard controls on iPad? In your confusing matrix the full version is listed as working via xCloud streaming, and we’re told the iPad can play games via xCloud. So should we assume this will work?

What can we play on Mac? This seems to have been ignored completely, unless it falls under the generic “PC” term. Can we install the Xbox version on a Mac the same as we can a Windows PC?

How do you control the Xbox version on a desktop/laptop? Mouse? Keyboard? Something else weird?

I don’t think any of this falls under any “secret” category of stuff you can be holding back for future announcements, and as you’re asking for pre-orders I think it deserves some kind of answer.

[michaeltmurrayuk]

1 hour ago, itsrpss said:

What can we play on Mac? This seems to have been ignored completely, unless it falls under the generic “PC” term. Can we install the Xbox version on a Mac the same as we can a Windows PC?

The Microsoft Store (and thus Gamepass) only works on Windows 10/11 so if you are using a Mac you won't have access to the Xbox version like a Windows PC would (The logo in the Matrix is the Microsoft Store Logo not a generic PC Logo).

 

[itsrpss]

14 hours ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

The Microsoft Store (and thus Gamepass) only works on Windows 10/11 so if you are using a Mac you won't have access to the Xbox version like a Windows PC would (The logo in the Matrix is the Microsoft Store Logo not a generic PC Logo).

 

This says Game Pass Ultimate is available on the Mac, and the matrix says that both FM 2022 and FM 2022 Xbox are available on Game Pass https://www.macworld.com/article/343635/xbox-cloud-gaming-iphone-ipad-mac-game-pass-ultimate.html

So you may well be right, but like I said, this announcement and the messaging in the thread since has been a confusing mess.

[Neil Brock]

On 11/10/2021 at 19:36, Rascanuvols said:

I read the thread in the other forum and that's been asked several times. They just won't answer it.

 

Seriously, now for real:

 

CAN THE STREAMED XBOX EDITION BE PLAYED WITH TOUCH CONTROLS ON TABLET?

 

It's just a yes or no question, please.

Yes, it should be possible to use touch controls on xCloud. 

[Loren1983]

hace 13 minutos, Neil Brock dijo:

Yes, it should be possible to use touch controls on xCloud. 

Hi Neil.

Touch controls like FMT21 tablet version or Touch control like others cloud games in Game pass with a virtual controller?

Thanks.

[Neil Brock]

15 minutes ago, Loren1983 said:

Hi Neil.

Touch controls like FMT21 tablet version or Touch control like others cloud games in Game pass with a virtual controller?

Thanks.

Both of those options are available, but we'd recommend the touch input over the virtual controller. 

[Loren1983]

Justo ahora, Neil Brock dijo:

Both of those options are available, but we'd recommend the touch input over the virtual controller. 

Good news.

Thanks for the reply.

[Rascanuvols]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Yes, it should be possible to use touch controls on xCloud. 

Thanks for the answer.

Sorry for the pushiness but it was REALLY important and a deciding factor for the purchase.

[ianclark]

I’m not very savvy about this stuff being 49, but what I know is I’ve played FM (and CM before it since the start), so please explain if I can play FM22 on my IPad in very easy to understand terms because if not it is a sad and disappointing way to end a near 30 year relationship !!!

[Malicious Penguin]

Just now, ianclark said:

I’m not very savvy about this stuff being 49, but what I know is I’ve played FM (and CM before it since the start), so please explain if I can play FM22 on my IPad in very easy to understand terms because if not it is a sad and disappointing way to end a near 30 year relationship !!!

Only the Mobile version, unless you also have an Xbox.

[ianclark]

2 minutes ago, Malicious Penguin said:

Only the Mobile version, unless you also have an Xbox.

That’s a disgrace then - seems like SI are making FM harder to play for older fans - not sure that is rewarding years of loyalty!!!!

[FulchesterFred]

Praise be I bought an Xbox a few weeks ago. The controls on 21 on Xbox are awful btw. Totally unintuitive. I hope this improves for 22. I have an iPad as well but I’m old (47). I really hope this is kept simple to play on both devices. Too much talk of mods and porting and desktops that go over my grey head.

shame but not surprising about touch. SI took a lot of stick about a product which clearly made v little money. I’m surprised more people didn’t play on tablets as it’s so much more accessible, certainly as life gets busier. Oh well :-(

[JordanMilly]

15 hours ago, ianclark said:

That’s a disgrace then - seems like SI are making FM harder to play for older fans - not sure that is rewarding years of loyalty!!!!

That's not strictly correct - you don't need an Xbox to play on iPad. As per the first post:
 

Quote

tablet players will be able to stream that game to their devices via Microsoft’s xCloud streaming service (which is available to anyone with a Game Pass Ultimate subscription).

 

[autohoratio]

2 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

That's not strictly correct - you don't need an Xbox to play on iPad. As per the first post:
 

 

With that being the officially recommended method of playing on tablets, I think SI might need to make a tutorial for how to use it given the confusion in this thread...

[ianclark]

So, if I understand correctly I need an ultimate Game Pass at £10.99 PER MONTH, to play on my IPad (I don’t have time these days to play the full game on PC any more).

Oh well, I guess that’s the end for me for Football Manager after almost 30 years playing FM and it’s predecessor.

Very surprised at this money grab on loyal fans unless I am misunderstanding what’s required (instructions are in short supply for those of us who are not gamers - exceptFM)!!

[santy001]

Hey @ianclark the xcloud service means you're playing the game on their hardware and streaming it to your own device. I won't claim to know all the games that are included but its a subscription to a gaming service that does include more than FM so it is for you to decide if there's any value in that or not. There is also the mobile version which will be available too.

[ianclark]

Thanks santy001 but I only play FM22 Touch these days so not worth it for me.

Its a shame the option has been taken away but I guess even SI is corporate these days #forgettingwhereyoucamefrom

 

[RTHerringbone]

No business is going to willingly lose / not make enough money in a product line unless it believes it can turn it round.

SI haven't done this to annoy or spite FMT players (of which I'm one). There's no sentimental cross subsidy for FMT, it's just a simple commercial call which ultimately benefits the wider future of FM.

[Ricketts147]

This is terrible news.  Very sad day indeed.

Ive always played FM Touch on PC desktop.  So what is this Microsoft shop place? 

 

So many questions, I will start with these...

Do I have to have a microsoft account?

once downloaded can I modify graphics, change skins, match day mods etc?

do I have to own an xbox, do I have to have an xbox controller?

Will I beable to mod the game to just use Text Only commentary?

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Ricketts147

[Burbian De Bay]

@Ricketts147
Have a look at the FM Touch forum, maybe your questions are already answered.
 

 

[Malicious Penguin]

This is quite sad - the first "full" CM/FM since 92/93 that I've not owned. 

[beleglom]

Il 22/10/2021 in 07:27 , ianclark ha scritto:

So, if I understand correctly I need an ultimate Game Pass at £10.99 PER MONTH, to play on my IPad (I don’t have time these days to play the full game on PC any more).

Oh well, I guess that’s the end for me for Football Manager after almost 30 years playing FM and it’s predecessor.

Very surprised at this money grab on loyal fans unless I am misunderstanding what’s required (instructions are in short supply for those of us who are not gamers - exceptFM)!!

I've done the same thinking... 144 €/year are way too much, only for playing FMT and I can't afford Nintendo Switch at this time

I've played full version until 2014 and FMT since then (due to lack of time). This year Iwon't be playing it for the first time since 2000.

I think this choice is totally unreasonable.
I hope SI will rethink about it in time for FM2023...

 

[ianclark]

I’m glad to see I’m not the only long time loyal fan who feels screwed over by this decision - it seems the company has gotten too big and corporate to truly care about its longest serving fan base and customers - first time I haven’t bought FM (or it’s predecessor) since the very beginning........

[petevernon22]

So will i be able to play full fm22 on a tablet with game pass

[Loren1983]

hace 17 horas, petevernon22 dijo:

So will i be able to play full fm22 on a tablet with game pass

Nope. I think only XBOX EDITION

[RTHerringbone]

For info, I'm a FMT player who has taken the plunge into the full game on PC. It isn't actually that slow. Once you delegate responsibilities and tone down the social media it's pretty swift.

There are too many button clicks in pre match but it's not horrific. If I can figure out how to streamline that and download an Instant Result skin, it genuinely isn't that far removed from FMT.

There is a ******** of data and screens compared to FMT but the UI is generally OK and you don't have to look at all the screens anyway.

[rafaelbenitez]

23 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

For info, I'm a FMT player who has taken the plunge into the full game on PC. It isn't actually that slow. Once you delegate responsibilities and tone down the social media it's pretty swift.

There are too many button clicks in pre match but it's not horrific. If I can figure out how to streamline that and download an Instant Result skin, it genuinely isn't that far removed from FMT.

There is a ******** of data and screens compared to FMT but the UI is generally OK and you don't have to look at all the screens anyway.

What tasks have you delegated and how is the AI performing them? That's been my main worry with the full game, potentially risking the AI making some bad, illogical decisions.

The game is good, no doubt but I just think I'm going to miss the simplicity of FMT and the processing time in between games especially. Of course this could well be down to my PC but a save with similar setup is really snappy on FMT.

[RTHerringbone]

I've delegated everything except tactical decisions and player sales / purchases and contracts.

All training, press conferences etc. have gone and the associated AI is exactly the same as it would have been in FMT. In FMT that control is turned off for you. In the full game the only difference is that you have to turn off that control manually. 

[Loren1983]

hace 47 minutos, RTHerringbone dijo:

I've delegated everything except tactical decisions and player sales / purchases and contracts.

All training, press conferences etc. have gone and the associated AI is exactly the same as it would have been in FMT. In FMT that control is turned off for you. In the full game the only difference is that you have to turn off that control manually. 

Sorry, but I disagree.
It is clear that everything you say is true and improves the flow of the day to day, but even so it is making it very difficult for me to get used to the main game (FM). I'm really trying but I can't. The experiencie is VERY different from FMT.
Yesterday I ended up playing FMT21 again.

@rafaelbenitez The same happens to me.
I don't like to leave those tasks to the AI because I know how it works.
I have all the staff recruitment tasks delegated. Yesterday, despite having many scouts, I get the message that another one has been hired. I look his profile and I find his attributes are too low for the club level. 
To be like this I prefer not to have any of that stuff. Two posibilities: take it and get tired of the game soon or I delegate it to the AI and see these things happen.

I wish they had kept FMT as a game mode within FM at least...

All my hopes are pinned on FM XBOX Edition.

[Keyzer Soze]

18 minutes ago, Loren1983 said:

Sorry, but I disagree.
It is clear that everything you say is true and improves the flow of the day to day, but even so it is making it very difficult for me to get used to the main game (FM). I'm really trying but I can't. The experiencie is VERY different from FMT.
Yesterday I ended up playing FMT21 again.

@rafaelbenitez The same happens to me.
I don't like to leave those tasks to the AI because I know how it works.
I have all the staff recruitment tasks delegated. Yesterday, despite having many scouts, I get the message that another one has been hired. I look his profile and I find his attributes are too low for the club level. 
To be like this I prefer not to have any of that stuff. Two posibilities: take it and get tired of the game soon or I delegate it to the AI and see these things happen.

I wish they had kept FMT as a game mode within FM at least...

All my hopes are pinned on FM XBOX Edition.

To be honest, in FMT you leave those tasks to the AI. It's the same thing.

[Loren1983]

hace 35 minutos, Keyzer Soze dijo:

To be honest, in FMT you leave those tasks to the AI. It's the same thing.

No in my opinion Keyzer. In FMT you don't have 12 scouts, 6 phisios, 7 coachs... All this doesn't exits so AI don´t have to deal with it... You can hire a Scout chief  and focus in all the core of FM (Tactics, transfers and match engine)

The same for press conferences. You don't have to worry about the AI answering something else you don't want or directly creating a bad relationship with the press because the interaction is minimal.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Loren1983

[rafaelbenitez]

In FMT, I suppose a player could by and large manage tasks like staff hiring and scouting because they were fairly streamlined for the game. Played FM 22, I quite like it but it still does take quite a bit of time to get through a save. I think I've played about 7 hours and I'm only 3 games into the season. I'll pick it up again on full release and try out delegation but right now I'm going back to FMT 21 to scratch that itch.

[Loren1983]

hace 1 minuto, rafaelbenitez dijo:

In FMT, I suppose a player could by and large manage tasks like staff hiring and scouting because they were fairly streamlined for the game. Played FM 22, I quite like it but it still does take quite a bit of time to get through a save. I think I've played about 7 hours and I'm only 3 games into the season. I'll pick it up again on full release and try out delegation but right now I'm going back to FMT 21 to scratch that itch.

Totally agree.

Can you do FM experience easier by delegating tasks and filtering news? YES

Does this make FM an experience close to FMT? NO  

It is still far from what FMT offered in my opinion.

[DJ Sir Matthew]

My biggest problem with the full FM version is that it IS slower between games, and a lot. In FMT I could go through half a season in a couple of hours, even with viewing games in key highlights. In full FM that is just impossible, no matter what settings I use. It takes longer to process and there are more proceasing breaks, of which many don't even make sense. I'm sticking to FMT 21 for the time being as I'm enjoying it for now.

[RTHerringbone]

It's definitely slower. I'll have finished my first season in 23 hours. So that's slow, but not a crawl.

But - it's not the sprawling behemoth I remember. People can take it or leave it. I gave it another shot because I do like the game and think it offers value for money. The processing time isn't too bad and so if you combine that with the delegations etc. then you can get a reasonable middle-ground between the FMT experience and the bloat of the full game.

[HUNT3R]

28 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

It's definitely slower. I'll have finished my first season in 23 hours. So that's slow, but not a crawl.

But - it's not the sprawling behemoth I remember. People can take it or leave it. I gave it another shot because I do like the game and think it offers value for money. The processing time isn't too bad and so if you combine that with the delegations etc. then you can get a reasonable middle-ground between the FMT experience and the bloat of the full game.

Out of interest, RTH, how did you view matches (I assume key highlights?) and how many nations/leagues did you load?

 

[RTHerringbone]

3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Out of interest, RTH, how did you view matches (I assume key highlights?) and how many nations/leagues did you load?

 

Key highlights and six leagues on a Medium database.

[santy001]

46 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

Key highlights and six leagues on a Medium database.

Surprised it took 23 hours on that set-up. Completed a network game season in 18/19 hours with 2 of us with more leagues and that we both wander off at times for a little bit. We do make use of auto-continue for the time between games though.

[grade]

On 22/10/2021 at 10:53, RTHerringbone said:

No business is going to willingly lose / not make enough money in a product line unless it believes it can turn it round.

SI haven't done this to annoy or spite FMT players (of which I'm one). There's no sentimental cross subsidy for FMT, it's just a simple commercial call which ultimately benefits the wider future of FM.

Here is the part my brain fails to comprehend.

How can this be a commercial call, when you offer FMT/Classic with FM on Steam, for 9 years? I will say it again 9 years and 6 of those 9, FMT was competing with itself with FM (mind blowing thought), which offer FMT for free (at this point if I was PC, I was showing the blue screen of death). I doubt that SI has been loosing money on this, because they would have cancelled much earlier. FM on Linux lasted only 5 versions, before it was cancelled , FM Live lasted 2 years and 4 months, before it was cancelled. I will put here honorable mention, but this was released only in one country, that I know off, but has been few years since I heard anything about it: Football Manager Online, is it still going or was it cancelled?

Sure, you have the sales for the Ipad, Android and switch and Xbox versions... but that is another entirely different subject.

PS1: I don't expect for any reverse decision on this one or any decision regarding to FM or FMT, because first SI mind is set on something it is rare they back down and also I truly believe this cancellation of FMT was welcome news by many people.

PS2: don't know the numbers, but from buzz on the net or there is some sort of illusive exclusive deal somewhere, but I don't see bright future for the switch or Xbox versions. I hope that those fans don't experience what we FMT users experience.

PS3: Also this decision still shocks me, that Miles last year and also this year has been raving for broken sales records and what not.

PS4: Yeah, I'm that annoying.

PS5: because I had too I will now shut up.

Edited October 28, 2021 by grade

[petevernon22]

They should atleast implement custom databases now for fmt21 tablet players so they can continue playing the game. I cant see this being particually unreasonable or hard to achieve.

[Loren1983]

hace 1 hora, petevernon22 dijo:

They should atleast implement custom databases now for fmt21 tablet players so they can continue playing the game. I cant see this being particually unreasonable or hard to achieve.

Maybe there is some conflict of licenses ... but there is always an alternative: editor for the community 

[santy001]

2 hours ago, petevernon22 said:

They should atleast implement custom databases now for fmt21 tablet players so they can continue playing the game. I cant see this being particually unreasonable or hard to achieve.

The game will no longer be available for purchase from SI (third parties would still be able to sell any existing stock of keys/discs) in 11 days time.

On steam, FM17, FM18 and FM19 have averaged larger player counts (the second column) over the last 30 days than FMT 21. If you have an average of 700 players, is it really going to make sense to invest the time and resources into it given that only a percentage of that 700 would in turn use it.

[DJ Sir Matthew]

2 hours ago, santy001 said:

The game will no longer be available for purchase from SI (third parties would still be able to sell any existing stock of keys/discs) in 11 days time.

On steam, FM17, FM18 and FM19 have averaged larger player counts (the second column) over the last 30 days than FMT 21. If you have an average of 700 players, is it really going to make sense to invest the time and resources into it given that only a percentage of that 700 would in turn use it.

Kinda a chicken-egg story. If they had released an editor for FMT a few years' back (or allowed FMT to read editor data files like the full version), who's to say that FMT wouldn't be averaging tenfold?