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Using the Data Hub to improve your Tactics


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Really great work, and glad to have you back on the forums @LPQR (still remember your 'Mad Max' thread amongst others from FM17?) Really highlights the importance of having a tactical plan and knowing exactly how you want to play. Great stuff.

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Very nice analysis. I really like the data hub this year. Allows one to really get the information and make changes. 

I have been looking for the information that shoes when you score / concede usually. I was not able to find it. 

I noticed that in the last couple of games we are ahead and suddenly the opponent goes on steroids and manages to equalize, whether I'm leading 1 or 2 goals they make it back in min 95+ and i end up drawing. 

Reasons?

1) they play more offensive to get something out of the game. I probably would do the same.

2) My players get tired, lose concentration towards the end. Solution? Substitute someone else in? Change tactic to something more conservative. Two problems with this. You sub off your main defenders for the backups who are fresh but not that good. With regards to the tactic change, it seems to do more harm then good. I have the momentum and am winning 2-0 and then try to finish the game I'm the last 15 min. Remove attacking roles. Drop my lines. Move players to less advanced positions. Waste time etc. This gives the opponent more chances but usually they have a free kick or corner where they manage the last minute goal.

Any ideas, tips? Continue with the same tactic and replace tired players and hope to score more than they can make up. Or park the bus a bit and hope to prevent some last minute free kicks?

 

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10 hours ago, tyro said:

With regards to the tactic change, it seems to do more harm then good. I have the momentum and am winning 2-0 and then try to finish the game I'm the last 15 min. Remove attacking roles. Drop my lines. Move players to less advanced positions. Waste time etc. This gives the opponent more chances but usually they have a free kick or corner where they manage the last minute goal.

This is usually only a problem when you make yourself too passive and go from dominating possession in opponent's half, to being packed inside your own box with no forward movement or ability to keep the ball.

Assuming you have a successful tactic that suits your players and gets you in the lead, you don't want to tear it apart completely. When trying to protect the result, you could just make a few tiny changes and perhaps focus on defending with the ball, rather than giving your opposition all the initiative and letting them spam crosses into your box.

A few examples:

  • Drop your Mentality to Standard or Cautious (you want to lower the risk-taking threshold, but not to the point your players are straight up Defensive or Very Defensive, which could make them too passive; very risk-averse Mentalities also make your players very risk-averse in defence, meaning they won't be willing to mark tight or tackle as aggressively as they would otherwise)
  • Change one or both WBs to FBs to make them a bit more cautious going forward
  • Use instructions such as Hold Shape, Waste Time and Slow Pace Down (these aren't drastic enough to change your whole style, but should help you run down the clock/make you a tad more cautious)

In regards to the D-Line and LoE, I'd be very careful dropping them below standard. Standard or Cautious Mentality should suffice, you don't want a super low-block that invites your opposition deep into your half.

Same goes for changing your Roles/Duties. With dropping your Mentality a notch, you're already lowering the risk-taking, changing multiple roles to Defend on top of that could restrict your forward movement severely and make it hard for you to keep the ball.

Apologies for a lengthy reply, hopefully LPQR doesn't mind me hijacking his fantastic thread for a second. :D

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Excellent post @LPQR. Excellent examples too.

 

On the crossing example (I could be very wrong here) I think corners are counted as crosses in FM so that may skew the stats. Probably the only caveat is to know what constitutes a cross/pass/shot etc when viewing the stats. 
 

Again, excellent. I’ll be referring to this quite a bit I think. 

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6 hours ago, Zemahh said:

This is usually only a problem when you make yourself too passive

Agreed. But...

6 hours ago, Zemahh said:

Drop your Mentality to Standard or Cautious

Disagree here. Mentality changes have too many effects (tempo, passing length, risk) and often do make you too passive. My usual changes when holding a lead late in games are to keep mentality the same (usually 'positive'), to lower tempo (to help us control the ball), add some time-wasting, and to tick "pass into space" to hit them on the counter when they leave too much space behind. If we're really under the cosh, I might add 'play for set-pieces' and 'shoot on sight' (anything to run the clock down, and a wild shot into the top tier of the stand is worth a few seconds!)

I still concede a few late goals over the course of a season but more often score another in added time to increase our lead.

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@LPQR, I have to admit I haven't spent much time with the Data Hub, as there's so much there and I couldn't figure out just what I should be looking at.  Was looking for a guide just like this - so just want to say thank you.  I'll be taking some time over the weekend to really focus on the Data Hub and go through your guide.

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On 03/11/2021 at 20:04, LPQR said:

Okay, so the potential conclusions & and adjustments are:

 

Conclusion a) The way we occupy space in the opponent’s half just after losing the ball leaves gaps for the opponent to exploit and allows them to by-pass our high press.

 

Solution? Review player positioning in the early opponent counter phase and adjust player movement settings (roles & instructions) so that we have efficient space coverage high up the pitch

 

Conclusion b) The front three roles are not properly instructed to press.

 

Solution? Review player’s pressing and tackling instructions( e.g. tackle harder for front 3, potentially change DLF to PF)

 

Great thread.

 

On that first issue, it's sadly due to ME not working properly. Currently players just aren't closing down the backline enough, if you combine that with teams playing on more defensive mentalities, you get CBs passing between themselves constantly, having 95% pass completion rate and retaining possession more than expected.

Maxing out pressing, LoE, using OIs doesn't seem to have much effect, and it would just leave you more open.

 

But I completely agree with your approach, and those solutions are very logical.

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Hi,

I‘ve changed my tactic in the middle of the season and I would like to analyse with the data hub how it‘s going. But I only see the whole season in the data. Is it possible to the see the data only for the last game? Here I can only see some data, but I would like to,stick deeper.

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3 hours ago, sgevolker said:

Hi,

I‘ve changed my tactic in the middle of the season and I would like to analyse with the data hub how it‘s going. But I only see the whole season in the data. Is it possible to the see the data only for the last game? Here I can only see some data, but I would like to,stick deeper.

 

You have the option of seeing data for last match / last 5 matches here:

db2e79d2690122e3abe74a0139c5611e.png

 

Also, if you click on match > analytical data you can see a lot of data regarding the match itself on a player & team level. The visualizations are not as graphical perhaps as the ones you get for the season performance however it is basically the same data, just not presented in graphs :)  Hope this helps.


Regarding the other comments - thanks guys, good to hear this is useful. Please do keep in mind that certain technical interpretations might vary depending on how the ME changes throughout future updates and some of the conclusions in the specific scenario I've chosen might actually change as a result. What I wanted to illustrate is rather a framework of interpreting data and the process of transforming it into actionable tactical adjustments. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Heyyy, mate! I have a couple of questions, as I'm trying to get some value out of the Data Hub:

  1. Where do I find the Pass Map during the game? Is it only in the Data Hub and in that case only available for the last game? Is there a way to find Pass Maps for earlier games? Don't see it in the Match Stats section at all.
  2. Are you doing anything smart to monitor how effectively your team are pressing? I am finding some useful comparative data on how my team is with the ball and how efficient we are at creating chances, but nothing really to tell me if we're pressing effectively or not.

Cheers! :thup:

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36 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Where do I find the Pass Map during the game? Is it only in the Data Hub and in that case only available for the last game? Is there a way to find Pass Maps for earlier games? Don't see it in the Match Stats section at all.

Don't know during the game, but if you go to an old game it is under 'Analytical Data' > Team > Passes > Combinations: All

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  • 2 weeks later...
6 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

I’m really struggling to win the ball higher up the pitch, and defensive actions are mainly in my own half! Any other general changes to consider that would help? 

Maxing out pressing settings, using tighter marking, tackling harder maybe. Also having a top heavy formation (like 4-2-3-1), and having players with good work rate, aggression, etc.

That would be the normal answer, but in this current ME that still isn't enough. I have checked all of those boxes, yet my Data Hub shows that I usually win possession in front of my goal and in my own half, not in the opponents half.

 

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11 hours ago, (sic) said:

Maxing out pressing settings, using tighter marking, tackling harder maybe. Also having a top heavy formation (like 4-2-3-1), and having players with good work rate, aggression, etc.

That would be the normal answer, but in this current ME that still isn't enough. I have checked all of those boxes, yet my Data Hub shows that I usually win possession in front of my goal and in my own half, not in the opponents half.

 

Yeah exactly the same! So frustrating! Hopefully we get an update soon! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

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