*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread

[rp1966]

To echo the thoughts of many on this thread.  I think it is a poor decision on SI's part not to have a time limit on Russia's exclusion from competitions. The football authorities may have declared their actions as indefinite, but we all know that in reality that just means until the political situation changes, which in the timescale of a long FM save it will.

However, given that the changes also affect older databases it indicates that this has not been implemented purely through database changes and coding changes have been developed in the main program.  I can appreciate that given how static the FM gameworld is in terms of rule and league changes it was probably a significant amount of work to implement the exclusion of Russia and would have delayed things significantly to also implement a mechanism for re-inclusion.

For FM22, I can accept it has to be that way.  For FM23, however, assuming actions are still being taken against Russia, the game needs to have a way to re-instate Russia after 5-10 seasons.

 

[decapitated]

I think the changes were absolutely necessary and totally in line with what SI did regarding the effects of Brexit and Covid on world football. On a personal level I am disappointed as I wanted to start two new Ukrainian save games before any changes took place (Shakhtar Donetsk which I did in time, and Vorskla Poltava, which I didn't) . I wanted to start new saves in a world where Ukrainian clubs could still attract foreign players and wouldn't suffer a massive drain of foreign and domestic players but didn't set up the Poltava save in time, but that's my own fault for not being quick enough. The thing is though. The FM series always reflect the world of football as it is rather than how it was or how we'd like it to be and these changes were necessary. 

 

 

[bigmattb28]

My 2 cents for what its worth, I agree with the Russia things they've put in the game now. Makes it a bit more interesting for people managing Ukrainian teams, not so much if you want to play in Russia. I don't agree that they've kept Ukraine playable when it's suspended in real life though. We know why SI have done it, some agree with it some won't. I get that gaming is a release and some like the realism and some want to escape all the crap we have to deal with in the real world. For me, it is what it is.

Also, with all these changes to Russia in game, what have SI done with Chelsea? Are they under a transfer embargo in the new update or not? I'll not get to touch the game until tonight to find out myself.

Edited March 25, 2022 by bigmattb28

[DarJ]

I agree with those that are unhappy with the latest update and that's why I don't think politics should even come into sports in the first place. While I can understand the sanctions IRL even if I don't totally agree with them, this is a video game and the realism argument can be thrown out of the window this time because of who they decided to handle COVID. The studio made the decision not to have it in game because they wanted the game to be an "escape" for the players and what is the difference now? I don't want to be reminded of how horrible the real world is in a virtual world I've created for myself. If this was only applicable to new saves then I might even understand that but to apply it to saves that are already started is stupid. 

The sensible solution would have been a 5 year ban at most or even 10 if you wanted to be on the more extreme side.

I also don't understand why they didn't bring it up to the community to vote on since they did that with the handshakes and fist bump during COVID. Yes you make the game but we are the consumers. 

Finally I think we should stop with the "realism" excuse. The truth is that realism ends once you hit that continue button the first time. The rules of the game are the only realistic part of the game but how it plays out and the game world itself is all fantasy 

Edited March 25, 2022 by DarJ

[vikeologist]

How you feel about SI and the Russia thing (instead of theoretically spending that time resolving the outstanding issues) obviously depends on what state you think the game is in this year, and there's no real accurate way of measuring either how bug-ridden the game is, or how bug-ridden users think it is. Every year opinions are going to occupy the whole scale.

My view is that this is the worst game for bugs since I started playing (I think) CM97. I seem to remember another edition that was on this scale, but  for every bug that was fixed by the final update, it seems to have been replaced with  new ones.

Maybe my opinion is an outlier, but when I saw there was a new update, I thought, great, maybe they've managed to fix things. Followed by massive disappointment when I saw the essentially empty changelist.

I do appreciate that there's a problem with fixing issues that then leads on to further issues. This seems to be what has happened for instance with requesting stadium expansions / new stadiums. SI tried to fix it, and it just seems to have created a new issue. Maybe it's a bit better now. I appreciate that not every issue can be fixed quickly or easily. 

I'm also aware of issues that other people have mentioned, but as far as I can tell, nobody has actually created a bug report. If people encounter bugs but don't report them, one can't assume SI are aware of them. I'm not sure I was aware of them until I saw more than one person reporting the same thing as part of their save updates. (FWIW I'm thinking of Copa Lib registration here).

On the other hand, I've reported a lot of issues this year, and I don't feel entirely warm and fuzzy about whether it was really worth it.

There is one thing I will mention.This year boards don't respond to requests immediately, like coaching courses or facilities. Maybe this is true to real life, but it does make it really hard to track whether board requests are working. I got a response from my board for something the third time. Did I just miss the response the first 2 times? I mean, I'd say I must have, but if boards responded within a day to everything, it would be a lot easier to identify whether there really is a problem there. Don't have real life delays in the game that make it harder to spot issues.If you want the board to take time getting back to you, we need something in the Club Vision for pending requests.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by vikeologist

[Nicenoise]

The most notable thing about SI and War Child is that Saudi’s are still in the game)

[forameuss]

Not sure why there is suddenly this cry out for how SI have dealt with it.  Not a nice decision to have to make, but it's probably the most suitable one.  They had three decisions, right? 

1) Ignore everything that's happened
2) Do what they've got now in perpetuity
3) Do what they've got now but put some arbitrary end date on it

1 and 3 seem like poor ideas.  2 isn't great, but it's the best course of action they could go down in the circumstances.

[CFuller]

I think some people on here are overreacting to SI's decision, and now the whataboutery that started on Twitter is spilling over into the forums.

I'm pretty sure this is the first time in Football Manager's lifespan (30 years) that a nation has been excluded from world football for invading another sovereign nation. There is NO precedent.

Some of you say that you should keep politics out of football, but in tragic circumstances like these, it's impossible not to take a political stance. If UEFA and FIFA place sanctions on Russia, yet Russian teams in FM22 play on like nothing has happened, people could interpret that as SI condoning the Russian government's actions. On the other hand, if Russia are excluded from continental and international tournaments in FM22, just like they are in real-life, SI are inevitably going to upset the Russians.

To be clear, I agree in principle with SI's decision. EA have already taken Russia out of FIFA, so it wouldn't have been a good look if SI had kept them in.

Now, do I agree with their implementation of the decision? That's another question. I am not so sure the Russian ban should be indefinite... but as things stand, their suspension from FIFA and UEFA is indefinite.

If there was a hypothetical end date for Russia's suspension on FM22, how long should they be banned for? 5 years? 10 years? Should there be some random date (decided during the creation of a new save) when Russia are readmitted into world football, a bit like how Brexit was implemented on FM17? Nobody knows when or how this conflict will end, so how do you expect a video game developer to predict that?

With regards to Saudi Arabia, they are still active members of FIFA and the AFC. They have not been suspended from world football, so why should SI remove them from the game while that is still the case? If SI exclude Saudi Arabia from the game, then they might as well exclude every nation which has a dodgy human rights record or which has committed serious crimes against people in/from other nations. At that point, you would just have a heavily watered-down version of international football that isn't realistic at all. Isn't Football Manager supposed to be a simulation?

This update doesn't change how I feel about FM22. I'd already decided after the previous update that it's not for me. A few too many annoying long-standing bugs have not been fixed yet, and the ridiculously high pass rates of lower-league teams (especially defenders) has put me off. So I'm taking a break from the series until at least FM23.

[forameuss]

1 minute ago, CFuller said:

Now, do I agree with their implementation of the decision? That's another question. I am not so sure the Russian ban should be indefinite... but as things stand, their suspension from FIFA and UEFA is indefinite.

If there was a hypothetical end date for Russia's suspension on FM22, how long should they be banned for? 5 years? 10 years? Should there be some random date (decided during the creation of a new save) when Russia are readmitted into world football, a bit like how Brexit was implemented on FM17? Nobody knows when or how this conflict will end, so how do you expect a video game developer to predict that?

This is it in more detail.  Forever is a long time, but how are they supposed to put this arbitrary end date in?  And, hypothetically, how does that decision look if the situation gets markedly worse in the next few weeks?  As soon as the situation resolves - if it does - then I expect there will already be plans on how to reinstate things back to how they were, if that's what's to happen. For now though, I'm not really sure what people expected.

[themadsheep2001]

21 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Not sure why there is suddenly this cry out for how SI have dealt with it.  Not a nice decision to have to make, but it's probably the most suitable one.  They had three decisions, right? 

1) Ignore everything that's happened
2) Do what they've got now in perpetuity
3) Do what they've got now but put some arbitrary end date on it

1 and 3 seem like poor ideas.  2 isn't great, but it's the best course of action they could go down in the circumstances.

We have players in the game currently suspended indefinitely because of things happening in football, so if Russia are suspended indefinitely, it's no surprise it's happened in FM. 

Personally I think people are going to complain,  like it, or i suspect will be the prevailing view, largely ignore it regardless. So they have gone with their own decision. 

Only real question is if they have a rollback update should the war end. As for what precedent it might sent as some are arguing: you know what, personally I don't care, because hopefully we won't have a situation like Ukraine happening again. 

[Esben Knudsen]

12 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Not sure why there is suddenly this cry out for how SI have dealt with it.  Not a nice decision to have to make, but it's probably the most suitable one.  They had three decisions, right? 

1) Ignore everything that's happened
2) Do what they've got now in perpetuity
3) Do what they've got now but put some arbitrary end date on it

1 and 3 seem like poor ideas.  2 isn't great, but it's the best course of action they could go down in the circumstances.

Why is no. 3 a poor idea? As far as I know, we've already got similar things in the game. Like Bosnia, Serbia etc. eventually joining the European Union. I even think Britain can re-enter? There's no confirmed date for any of that IRL, but the game makes educated guesses which makes the game world feel alive and evolving. Those are really clever mechanics, and I applaud SI for them.

IMO, the current solution does the opposite. Apologies for the harsh verdict, but this is an unrealistic, borderline lazy implementation. I understand the time schedule may be tight, but it's really a suboptimal solution. The war just never ends in-game.

Russian players never getting a cap again ruins not only playing in the Russian league, but also having any Russian players in other leagues. I really hope it's moddable somehow.

[Garethjohn79]

Russia and Belarus are banned from UEFA and FIFA tournaments, the update reflects that (Although I started a save yesterday and Belarusian Clubs are competing in UEFA Club tournaments) It's not political it's how the game works it reflects what is known now, if things return then it'll be in that season's FM. 

SI have added their own preferences in previous editions( Moving the World Cup from Qatar even after it had been confirmed years before). They also omit/return players who've been banned or passed away, even when they weren't at the original release date.

Brexit was implemented in earlier editions on what the agreement ''could be'' in regards to immigration etc. Even Boris doesn't understand it now.

 

What I am concerned about is if the Northern Ireland league has been fixed with the fixtures in the NI Championship. As it's one of my favourite starting points.

And why their is so few Kit changes in matches when kits clash, I'm playing in Latvia which has real kits and badges etc, yet even on my brightest settings it's hard to see dark greens from black or dark blue, the second kits are significantly different but aren't used. IRL clubs tend to change not just for clashing but to advertise the new away kit.

[decapitated]

In my save game, Russian teams now play home leagues in neutral venues. So far Moldova, Poland, Turkey, Finland. Sweden and Denmark have all featured as neutral hosts. As a solution for existing save games it works, but I can see why for new games they'd implement what's happening in real life.

[Garethjohn79]

26 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I think some people on here are overreacting to SI's decision, and now the whataboutery that started on Twitter is spilling over into the forums.

I'm pretty sure this is the first time in Football Manager's lifespan (30 years) that a nation has been excluded from world football for invading another sovereign nation. There is NO precedent.

Some of you say that you should keep politics out of football, but in tragic circumstances like these, it's impossible not to take a political stance. If UEFA and FIFA place sanctions on Russia, yet Russian teams in FM22 play on like nothing has happened, people could interpret that as SI condoning the Russian government's actions. On the other hand, if Russia are excluded from continental and international tournaments in FM22, just like they are in real-life, SI are inevitably going to upset the Russians.

To be clear, I agree in principle with SI's decision. EA have already taken Russia out of FIFA, so it wouldn't have been a good look if SI had kept them in.

Now, do I agree with their implementation of the decision? That's another question. I am not so sure the Russian ban should be indefinite... but as things stand, their suspension from FIFA and UEFA is indefinite.

If there was a hypothetical end date for Russia's suspension on FM22, how long should they be banned for? 5 years? 10 years? Should there be some random date (decided during the creation of a new save) when Russia are readmitted into world football, a bit like how Brexit was implemented on FM17? Nobody knows when or how this conflict will end, so how do you expect a video game developer to predict that?

With regards to Saudi Arabia, they are still active members of FIFA and the AFC. They have not been suspended from world football, so why should SI remove them from the game while that is still the case? If SI exclude Saudi Arabia from the game, then they might as well exclude every nation which has a dodgy human rights record or which has committed serious crimes against people in/from other nations. At that point, you would just have a heavily watered-down version of international football that isn't realistic at all. Isn't Football Manager supposed to be a simulation?

This update doesn't change how I feel about FM22. I'd already decided after the previous update that it's not for me. A few too many annoying long-standing bugs have not been fixed yet, and the ridiculously high pass rates of lower-league teams (especially defenders) has put me off. So I'm taking a break from the series until at least FM23.

Russia and Belarus will be banned on FM while it's relevant for that edition it's what is known now, it's the same with transfer, league regulations etc. The game cannot implement situations that aren't in existence or not forecast to be. It tried with Brexit and that didn't work well.

[davehanson]

I think SI have got the decision spot on. Russia and it's teams are indefinetley banned from Europe/world and European competitions. So, they are banned from Europe indenfinetley in game - what is the issue?

 

I am sure if the war stops and UEFA/FIFA unban the NT and clubs then this will be reflected in future versions. Can anyone honestly see the NT or clubs being uinbanned before FM23 comes out? Deluded if you think that will happen.

[Esben Knudsen]

26 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Now, do I agree with their implementation of the decision? That's another question. I am not so sure the Russian ban should be indefinite... but as things stand, their suspension from FIFA and UEFA is indefinite.

If there was a hypothetical end date for Russia's suspension on FM22, how long should they be banned for? 5 years? 10 years? Should there be some random date (decided during the creation of a new save) when Russia are readmitted into world football, a bit like how Brexit was implemented on FM17? Nobody knows when or how this conflict will end, so how do you expect a video game developer to predict that?

IMO the answer to the highlighted question should be a resounding yes. That would be the clever solution. Just as you can now go "Huh. Cool." when Bosnia eventually joins the EU in the game, you should be able to make a sigh of relief when the Russian clubs and national teams are back. Because you know that means the war has ended. And we can all make our own little stories about how the world hopefully changes for the better in this particular timeline.

Current state of the game is doom and gloom. War eternal.

[themadsheep2001]

@Neil Brock are you able to update @Garethjohn79 on whether NI fixtures were looked at?

[Malicious Penguin]

3 minutes ago, Nicenoise said:

What about Ukrainian championship? Does it reflects reality now?

No, but when leagues were shut down during the pandemic SI didn't say "nah, no football for x leagues"

You're playing whataboutery with the decision. 

Are Russia banned from international/continental competitions, with no end date set? Yes. 

Just because the Ukrainian leagues can't play because their country is being bombed and invaded doesn't mean they're banned from playing football. They're just unable to at present. Like teams were when leagues shut down because of Covid. (Hell, SI moved Shakhtar et al from their home stadiums because they can't play there)
 

I'll be honest, I fully support what SI have done - and you know what? If it is a political statement, so what? It's their game, they make it, and they've supported WarChild for over a decade.

I also note several "new accounts" have posted exclusively on this thread. Can't imagine why.

[andu1]

I will be happily playing FM without any Russian team. In fact i will not even load that nation anymore. Too bad there isn't anyway to remove them completely

Thanks SI

[Garethjohn79]

24 minutes ago, Nicenoise said:

What about Ukrainian championship? Does it reflects reality now?

What about, What about? You can go on until the cows come home, 

Is it banned? or on hold, I gather it'll be played at neutral grounds for UEFA/FIFA tournaments. UEFA still have Belarusian sides that have qualified for UEFAs' 22/23 tournaments listed in Wikipedia, they will not play in it until the bans lifted. SI reflects what is now, it can't go on indefinitely updating FM 22. 

FM doesn't let you play Japanese leagues or, it's international, Dutch or German sides.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Garethjohn79
Change them for UEFA

[forameuss]

33 minutes ago, Esben Knudsen said:

Why is no. 3 a poor idea? As far as I know, we've already got similar things in the game. Like Bosnia, Serbia etc. eventually joining the European Union. I even think Britain can re-enter? There's no confirmed date for any of that IRL, but the game makes educated guesses which makes the game world feel alive and evolving. Those are really clever mechanics, and I applaud SI for them.

IMO, the current solution does the opposite. Apologies for the harsh verdict, but this is an unrealistic, borderline lazy implementation. I understand the time schedule may be tight, but it's really a suboptimal solution. The war just never ends in-game.

Russian players never getting a cap again ruins not only playing in the Russian league, but also having any Russian players in other leagues. I really hope it's moddable somehow.

Making an "educated guess" about when a country might join the European Union is massively different to making one about when pretty heavy sanctions caused by invading another country might end.  The solution currently matches reality as far as anyone can tell with certainty.  The only "certainty" at the moment is that Russia will not participate in any competitions.  I expect eventually that will change, but no-one can say that's a certainty.  So you work with what you have.

[Daveincid]

I feel so sorry for the moderators of the SI-forum...instead of enjoying the final update themselfes, they probably are 24/7 in this thread right now because it seems to be impossible for some people to just accept the decisions made based on UEFA/FIFA-sanctions and stay civil. Get out, take a deep breath, get back inside and start your best fm-career ever

[Garethjohn79]

Are the Belarusian and Russian leagues excluded?

I'm wishing to embark on a new save with 22.4 update and in the ''add league'' page both are still selectable, I wanted them to be excluded or has my game yet to be updated. 

[XaW]

1 minute ago, Garethjohn79 said:

Are the Belarusian and Russian leagues excluded?

I'm wishing to embark on a new save with 22.4 update and in the ''add league'' page both are still selectable, I wanted them to be excluded or has my game yet to be updated. 

They are playble, but at least Russian clubs cannot compete in Europe (not sure about Belarusian ones).

[Esben Knudsen]

12 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Making an "educated guess" about when a country might join the European Union is massively different to making one about when pretty heavy sanctions caused by invading another country might end.  The solution currently matches reality as far as anyone can tell with certainty.  The only "certainty" at the moment is that Russia will not participate in any competitions.  I expect eventually that will change, but no-one can say that's a certainty.  So you work with what you have.

That's where I disagree. The war will eventually end. We don't know how, but it will. The game can simulate that, just as the theoretical EU enlargements. No-one can say that those enlargements are a certainty either.

Educated people work at SI. So go on and "guesstimate". I don't care if they get it wrong - no one knows the future after all. Maybe you think it's another 10 years of war, fair enough. But at least even in that scenario there's an end in sight for those that want to play (or dream about playing) that far into the future.

[Garethjohn79]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

They are playble, but at least Russian clubs cannot compete in Europe (not sure about Belarusian ones).

Oh so it must reflects the current state of their own FA's then as I suspect they are still playing. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northern Ireland hasn't been fixed unless I missed the update when starting a save yesterday.

[anagain]

I'm going to be controversial.

I support Ukraine unaminously in the current conflict. I have felt compelled to donate a number of times and have been glued to coverage. Russia - well, those in power/culpable - deserves everything they get.

Saying that,

I like to see politics out of gaming. I like to imagine that in my FM saves the world is peaceful place where horrendous events such as the Russian invasion of Ukraine do not happen. The world carries on as normal, united by football.

I read an article on BBC this morning about the troubles faced by Greek football - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60483819. This doesn't happen in FM and that is great.

Brexit was different. Brexit happened but it didn't directly cause death. I don't agree with brexit but that's not the point. It's no different than financial fair play rules or tax rules that are in game.

Take my current save. I am three years in with Wycombe. I just had this moment in the play offs for Germany 2024.

In my world this awful war hasn't happened. Why should my game change to place Russia and Belorusian games at neutral venues?

I guess what I am asking is can we have a choice?

If people want Russia out of their FM then I fully respect that choice. Can I have the choice to have a world unimpacted by the horrors that this modern world brings? Can I have FM be a world where everyone lives in harmony as humans? Where football is a uniting force?

I many ways I do respect actions that SI might take to show their support of Ukraine in the real world. FM isn't the real world though.

 

I don't want to start a political argument. I just want FM free of real world horrors. I game to escape the real world.

Slava Ukraini.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by anagain

[Garethjohn79]

1 minute ago, Esben Knudsen said:

That's where I disagree. The war will eventually end. We don't know how, but it will. The game can simulate that, just as the theoretical EU enlargements. No-one can say that those enlargements are a certainty either.

Educated people work at SI. So go on and "guesstimate". I don't care if they get it wrong - no one knows the future after all. Maybe you think it's another 10 years of war, fair enough. But at least even in that scenario there's an end in sight for those that want to play (or dream about playing) that far into the future.

Blame Putin. FIFA, UEFA have banned Russia from it's tournaments, there isn't a date seat for return to UEFA/FIFA tournaments, FM reflects '''CURRENT SCENARIOS'' and ones known. FM does not include countries that may join the EU in 20 years time, it can include those who definitely are joining.

If SI were being political it'd block you loading Belarusian and Russian leagues being playable at all and have them only added by editors like the Gibraltar leagues are.

I cannot think how FM23 will include them as research will be impossible to and it won't be sold there anyway.

[Nicenoise]

1 минуту назад, davehanson сказал:

How does it not relect reality, sorry must have missed something.

Literally. It is suspended. In reality. 

[davehanson]

Just now, Nicenoise said:

Literally. It is suspended. In reality. 

What is suspended? Russia and their clubs are banned indefietley, not suspended.

[Nicenoise]

2 минуты назад, davehanson сказал:

What is suspended? Russia and their clubs are banned indefietley, not suspended.

We are talking about Ukrainian championship. Have no idea why you think otherwise

[Garethjohn79]

3 minutes ago, anagain said:

I'm going to be controversial.

I support Ukraine unaminously in the current conflict. I have felt compelled to donate a number of times and have been glued to coverage. Russia - well, those in power/culpable - deserves everything they get.

Saying that,

I like to see politics out of gaming. I like to imagine that in my FM saves the world is peaceful place where horrendous events such as the Russian invasion of Ukraine do not happen. The world carries on as normal, united by football.

I read an article on BBC this morning about the troubles faced by Greek football - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60483819. This doesn't happen in FM and that is great.

Brexit was different. Brexit happened but it didn't directly cause death. I don't agree with brexit but that's not the point. It's no different than financial fair play rules or tax rules that are in game.

Take my current save. I am three years in with Wycombe. I just had this moment in the play offs for Germany 2024.

In my world this awful war hasn't happened. Why should my game change to place Russia and Belorusian games at neutral venues?

I guess what I am asking is can we have a choice?

If people want Russia out of their FM then I fully respect that choice. Can I have the chocie to have a world unimpacted by the horrors that this modern world brings? Can I have FM be a world where everyone lives in harmony as humans. Where football is a uniting force?

 

I don't want to start a political argument. I just want FM free of real world horrors.

Slava Ukraini.

 

It's an update that reflects now. You can still play the leagues you cannot play in international tournaments.

I see you excluded Ukrainian clubs situation in your post. SI has reflected there situation in the past when they played outside their home grounds did it bother you when war stopped them then. Does it bother you that nations are blocked from being drawn together for political reasons as they have been? Asian located Israel is in UEFA not AFC. It's all political.

[davehanson]

2 minutes ago, Nicenoise said:

We are talking about Ukrainian championship. Have no idea why you think otherwise

Oh, so it has been temporarily suspended. And you want it removed from the game?

So, by your logic, FM21 & 22 should never have exsisted. Covid suspended most leagues around the world, so none of them should have been ion the game?

Can you tell the difference between temporary suspension and indefinetley banned? When the war is over, whenever that may be the Ukranian league will recommence. When the war is over Russia and its teams will still be banned.

[Nicenoise]

2 минуты назад, davehanson сказал:

Oh, so it has been temporarily suspended. And you want it removed from the game?

So, by your logic, FM21 & 22 should never have exsisted. Covid suspended most leagues around the world, so none of them should have been ion the game?

Can you tell the difference between temporary suspension and indefinetley banned? When the war is over, whenever that may be the Ukranian league will recommence. When the war is over Russia and its teams will still be banned.

Fm either reflects reality or not. If it doesn’t then arguments about reality are cheap. 

[davehanson]

2 minutes ago, Nicenoise said:

Fm either reflects reality or not. If it doesn’t then arguments about reality are cheap. 

FM relects reality as best it can, it will never be perfect becuase that is impossible. The coding required to temporarily suspend a league, I would imagine, are beyond the realms of it being able to be implemented in a Winter update. SI have done the best they can, they have implemented the laws as they are.

[anagain]

20 minutes ago, Garethjohn79 said:

It's an update that reflects now. You can still play the leagues you cannot play in international tournaments.

I see you excluded Ukrainian clubs situation in your post. SI has reflected there situation in the past when they played outside their home grounds did it bother you when war stopped them then. Does it bother you that nations are blocked from being drawn together for political reasons as they have been? Asian located Israel is in UEFA not AFC. It's all political.

FM doesn't highlight the reason Israel play in Europe. Teams not meeting are small changes but if it was possible to ignore that in FM then great. Besides, one of the matches UEFA has apparently highlighted to not be drawn since 2014 is Russia v Ukraine. Yet that happened in my save.

I'm not saying this is a deal breaker for me. I'm unlikely to start a new save anyway. When FM2023 comes around then changes will have to be made. Scouting and the make up of leagues affected will make that a neccessity.

I just believe in choice and an FM free of the world's horrors. I don't believe that makes me a bad person, or one deserving critique. As I said - and I didn't need to say so - I support Ukraine fully in this horrendous situation.

Be nice if we could just sit down and play a game where war, famine, religious tensions or political tensions that cause conflict do not matter.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by anagain

[Metal]

55 minutes ago, andu1 said:

I will be happily playing FM without any Russian team. In fact i will not even load that nation anymore. Too bad there isn't anyway to remove them completely

Thanks SI

You're missing out on Zakaryan.

I think SI did the right thing considering the current events. Just like they did the right thing by removing greenwood from the game, which people don't complain about.

[Nicenoise]

4 минуты назад, davehanson сказал:

FM relects reality as best it can, it will never be perfect becuase that is impossible. The coding required to temporarily suspend a league, I would imagine, are beyond the realms of it being able to be implemented in a Winter update. SI have done the best they can, they have implemented the laws as they are.

We can only agree to disagree. Using imagination as a point in discussion is amazing btw)

[davehanson]

18 minutes ago, Nicenoise said:

We can only agree to disagree. Using imagination as a point in discussion is amazing btw)

There is no agree or disagree. I fail to see what point you are trying to make, might be a language thing I guess. You seem confused and hurt. 

[pinball_88]

Hi! Can I switch to a rival club in the game? For example, if i managing for Marseille, can i go to PSG? Or it's impossible?

[FrazT]

OK-guys- you have made your points so lets move on please.

[DarJ]

15 minutes ago, pinball_88 said:

Hi! Can I switch to a rival club in the game? For example, if i managing for Marseille, can i go to PSG? Or it's impossible?

if they decide to sign you for some reason then yes 

[rp1966]

OK - here's a good one for the bizarre manager movement collection:

That's right - Ralph Hasenhuttl left Southampton (left, not sacked) to be a scout for Everton. In the previous season Southampton finished 7th, qualifying for the Europa Conference and Everton finished 8th.

 

[Zemahh]

[Carambau]

3 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

So he censored himself afterwards?

[WEED GOKU]

2 horas atrás, Daveincid disse:

I feel so sorry for the moderators of the SI-forum...instead of enjoying the final update themselfes, they probably are 24/7 in this thread right now because it seems to be impossible for some people to just accept the decisions made based on UEFA/FIFA-sanctions and stay civil. Get out, take a deep breath, get back inside and start your best fm-career ever

The problem is that we've paid for a product, with a specific set of leagues and atributes and then were retroactively impacted by this update without reason.

If the changes to Russia, Ukraine and Belarus were on the new patch exclusively, then fair game, it's fair and part of FM to record football is it is. I'd personally just ignore the new patch because I play FM to escape reality, not to be constantly reminded of conflicts and misery. 

But they decided to also port these changes to 2.3, which changes this from a decision built on adapting the game to the newest changes, to a game breaking decision that breaks all attempts at wanting to play a game devoid of conflict. 

I can play as Israeli teams and organize friendlies against Palestinian teams, Yemen teams participate in Asian cups, North and South Korea have friendly matches if they wish. 

Is it so wrong to want to play a football game based on UEFA's legal standings on 20th February 2022? 

At the very least, I ask the team to let us know how to revert the changes on 2.3. I will gladly give up on any improvments they did on 2.4 if I can just have a normal game on a normal political climate and without being reminded of how, in 2056, Russia is still banned from the world cup because of a month old war back in 2022. I literally didn't pay for this, I paid for a vastly different game. Having to go back to FM2021 because of this decision would be outrageous.

[Junkhead]

25 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

Don't want to carry anything on here about the whys and wherefores of the decision SI have made, but do we know if this can be reversed in the pre-game editor as mentioned here?

[Platinum]

Making this change affect old databases and current saves is a bad decision imo and not realistic in the slightest. 

If I am in the year 2030 in my FM save, why have Russian teams been sanctioned? For immersion and realism purposes this doesnt make sense, did the war somehow occur in the year 2030 in my save? 

Also if someone had bought the game specifically for the Russian leagues, this is a massive massive change in product they paid for. They should be able to play as Russian teams in the old databases - when the sanctions weren't made - and hence when in real life the Russian leagues were available.

Ultimately I dont see how these retroactive changes can be defended in the name of realism or enjoyment. I do agree however that the new database shouldnt have Russian leagues available (however it should be editable in the editor).

And I want to end this by saying my thoughts go out to the people in Ukraine and everyone else affected by this war as that's a much bigger problem than the issues in a video game.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Platinum

[forameuss]

 

21 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Don't want to carry anything on here about the whys and wherefores of the decision SI have made, but do we know if this can be reversed in the pre-game editor as mentioned here?

 

No idea for sure, but I'd edge towards the no from experience with editing previously.  The base database can be quite brittle, and the editor isn't always useful in changing things you want to change.  A lot of the time certain complex things will be hard-coded in, presumably as SI have the power and it's easier to ensure it works that way.  I'd be amazed if this was something that could be easily reversed in full.  At best, you might be able to completely remodel the European schedule to include them, but it won't be easy, if it's possible at all.

[WEED GOKU]

3 minutos atrás, forameuss disse:

 

 

No idea for sure, but I'd edge towards the no from experience with editing previously.  The base database can be quite brittle, and the editor isn't always useful in changing things you want to change.  A lot of the time certain complex things will be hard-coded in, presumably as SI have the power and it's easier to ensure it works that way.  I'd be amazed if this was something that could be easily reversed in full.  At best, you might be able to completely remodel the European schedule to include them, but it won't be easy, if it's possible at all.

It will be easy to add Russia back to club competitions, it will just take time. 

National team though, they will be banned in 2500 because of a war in 2022.