Is the game broken, or is it too early?

[milenec11]

good morning fans.

I believe that the game machine is little broken . 
The opposition defenders are tuned up and it’s hard for me to believe that within 4 games I can met an opponent which it’s bond lines and chemistry it’s ALL green .

I mean a know it’s a game but has or hasn’t a scent of truth as a game ? 
I have very good attacking line upfront and they are one step behind in response in anticipation in quickness even with the weakest team of the division.

Have any one else noticed that or after 20 years of managing ( since cm 01/02 ) at once I became useless?

[Dagenham_Dave]

Ah, the good old 'If I can't win, the game must be broken' trope. Never heard that one for at least five minutes. 

[milenec11]

Who told you that I can’t win ? 
the thing that I am trying to say here is that the game lacks the balance between AI and player . 
the machine act in favor of AI at 90% at least .

[callamity]

Provide evidence please

[forameuss]

4 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

Who told you that I can’t win ? 
the thing that I am trying to say here is that the game lacks the balance between AI and player . 
the machine act in favor of AI at 90% at least .

Except the match engine has no idea whether it's simulating AI vs AI or AI vs User, and as such can't tell who is who.  

So no, the game isn't broken.  It's a you problem.

[rp1966]

The ME is actually pretty good. It may favour a long ball over the top a little too much, but the defensive woes some people seem to be having I weeded out in my beta save with Zurich.

Compared to my FM22 approach I had to adjust width and defensive line and I've found that I am better with no OIs than the ones I'd got into the habit of automatically applying in the FM22 ME - still rethinking this area.  Also finding I'm having to tune my tactic to the opposition formation and tendency to go far more attacking towards the end of matches to a greater extent than in FM22.

 

 

[Huey Lewis]

From my understanding the game can only be broken after 4pm on weekdays, so it probably is a bit early. 

[HUNT3R]

37 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

the machine act in favor of AI at 90% at least .

The ME cannot distinguish between human and AI.

[milenec11]

58 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Except the match engine has no idea whether it's simulating AI vs AI or AI vs User, and as such can't tell who is who.  

So no, the game isn't broken.  It's a you problem.

[KillYourIdols]

Suppose it depends on many things, Including:

• Players adaptibility and teamwork ratings
• How long have they played together?
• What League are you playing in?

In League 2, I think I've seen more Amber and Dotted lines than I have Green by a long way

[milenec11]

What a shallow approach was that .

in Greece we said that if the beach are crooked or am I not going straight?

so if not the AI it’s me .

and perhaps it’s me only at FM23 .

so probably it’s me when on 5 last matches i have conceded at target totally 9 shots I conceded 6 goals and 5 of them was almost own goal because my defenders deflected the ball to my goal .

and the 6th was directly free kick . 
yes perhaps I must punish them cause they trying to defend . What a bad lack .

Edited November 9, 2022 by milenec11
Wrong spelling

[KillYourIdols]

Just now, milenec11 said:

so probably it’s me when on 5 last matches a have conceded at target totally 9 shots I conceded 6 goals and 5 of them was almost own goal goes my defenders deflected the ball to my goal .

 

The First thing I would look at if this is the case, is your Goalkeeper ratings for Handling, Reflexes, Anticipation, Postioning and Composure. Is he in the wrong place? Are his reactions not quick enough?

 

What about your Defenders? Is their Anticipation poor? Low Concentration? Bad at their Decision making and Positioning?

[milenec11]

Perhaps my biggest mistake is that I am trying (as an UEFA C certificate coach ) to see this game as a real life approach game .  I don’t know how you play ….perhaps you plug a tactic press a instant button and take the result . On that way I have seen big difference at the results .

but I am playing viewing all the game and on that I have seen an AI favor on many cases . Specially the AI defenders .

[milenec11]

4 minutes ago, KillYourIdols said:

The First thing I would look at if this is the case, is your Goalkeeper ratings for Handling, Reflexes, Anticipation, Postioning and Composure. Is he in the wrong place? Are his reactions not quick enough?

 

What about your Defenders? Is their Anticipation poor? Low Concentration? Bad at their Decision making and Positioning?

Altay Bayindir Is my GK 

Milan Skriniar CB and Okoli 

 

[Pasonen]

7 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

so probably it’s me when on 5 last matches i have conceded at target totally 9 shots I conceded 6 goals and 5 of them was almost own goal because my defenders deflected the ball to my goal .

In what position the shot where taken by opposition?

How many your defenders near shooter? 

What time you have conceded and what mentality and tactic you played at that time? 

What was your players conditions at that time?

It's very often that if you try your luck too much you will get burn. Not saying game animates or calculates this perfectly but I believe this is many times the reason human players blindly get nervous that they have been cheated in some way. Anyway I think this topic is genuinely too much demonised and it should be thought with precision to get a hang of it or even rise a bug report.

[HUNT3R]

I have a realistic approach to matches and create my own tactics. My teams are often around the most clinical, averaging around 11-13% conversion rates. AI teams usually range from 7-14% (though 9-13% are the most common).

You mention "the thing that I am trying to say here is that the game lacks the balance between AI and player " but what exactly is the issue? If we know, we could help or advise.

 

[el_manayer]

If your defenders play worse than the AI defenders, then it is either your players or your tactics (or the atmosphere in your team). As someone said above, the match is simulated in the same way if it is AI vs AI, player vs AI or player vs player.

Edit: currently there seems to be issues with defenders in the ME, but these happen equally to you and to the AI.

Edited November 9, 2022 by el_manayer

[milenec11]

1 minute ago, Pasonen said:

In what position the shot where taken by opposition?

How many your defenders near shooter? 

What time you have conceded and what mentality and tactic you played at that time? 

What was your players conditions at that time?

It's very often that if you try your luck too much you will get burn. Not saying game animates or calculates this perfectly but I believe this is many times the reason human players blindly get nervous that they have been cheated in some way. Anyway I think this topic is genuinely too much demonised and it should be thought with precision to get a hang of it or even rise a bug report.

Sorry mate but 5 at 6 occasions is not bad lack .

somehow the game must be difficult but this is roughly hard way when you have 63% position game approximated 14 shots 5 at target almost each game and those …..things happens . 

[Pasonen]

1 minute ago, milenec11 said:

Sorry mate but 5 at 6 occasions is not bad lack

Those questions what I asked or my post in general didn't suggest in anyway it could be bad luck.

[KillYourIdols]

10 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

Altay Bayindir Is my GK 

Milan Skriniar CB and Okoli 

 

Altay Bayindir has Conceded 29 in 42 games in my save over last season and a half with 22 Clean Sheets. Personally, if this was my save, This points to either You're letting in too many crosses (ME seems to favour low balls across the box) or your defenders really on the whole aren't helping much, either through positioning, Concentration, Anticipation or just not being up to scratch.

Edited November 9, 2022 by KillYourIdols

[milenec11]

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I have a realistic approach to matches and create my own tactics. My teams are often around the most clinical, averaging around 11-13% conversion rates. AI teams usually range from 7-14% (though 9-13% are the most common).

You mention "the thing that I am trying to say here is that the game lacks the balance between AI and player " but what exactly is the issue? If we know, we could help or advise.

 

In general as I mention previously in a ratio of chances between AI and User which are based on luck ( it’s a factor of the game ) the balance is 100% on AI favor .

and the balance of defenders vs attackers anticipation is apprx 70%-30% at defenders . 
that is what am I thing .

I am from Greece I play in BUDESLIGA league creating a custom team with very good players from 145 and above ranking and what I saw is that the tactical approach is less crucial . The AI teams became faster bond the can run and press constantly 90 min without change players exp Werder Bremen , Koln , Augsburg.

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

ratio of chances between AI and User

Do you mean the conversion rates? If that is what you mean, that's something within your control.

[milenec11]

1 minute ago, milenec11 said:

In general as I mention previously in a ratio of chances between AI and User which are based on luck ( it’s a factor of the game ) the balance is 100% on AI favor .

and the balance of defenders vs attackers anticipation is apprx 70%-30% at defenders . 
that is what am I thing .

I am from Greece I play in BUDESLIGA league creating a custom team with very good players from 145 and above ranking and what I saw is that the tactical approach is less crucial . The AI teams became faster bond the can run and press constantly 90 min without change players exp Werder Bremen , Koln , Augsburg.

And something else .

do they have removed “use offside trap “ or I can’t find it ? 
in my last game against werder I had 19 offsides and they had none . NONE is this balance ? I change the engagement lines the high and I was offside all the time . I saw every game all the game as playing to make alterations during the game and from 70th minute and after I drop any try to react as a coach . Once more a said that a have UEFA coach certificate.

For minor ages up to 15 but I am a certified coach . 

[milenec11]

6 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Do you mean the conversion rates? If that is what you mean, that's something within your control.

No I mean opportunities that arises during the game .

is a factor in soccer that we can’t defy the factor of luck . When this factor applies in a game is not normal to applied 100% at AI favour .

”

so probably it’s me when on 5 last matches i have conceded at target totally 9 shots I conceded 6 goals and 5 of them was almost own goal because my defenders deflected the ball to my goal .

and the 6th was directly free kick . 
yes perhaps I must punish them cause they trying to defend . What a bad lack .”

[HUNT3R]

8 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

do they have removed “use offside trap “ or I can’t find it ? 

 

That should help explain it.

[milenec11]

13 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Do you mean the conversion rates? If that is what you mean, that's something within your control.

Thank you for looking my post and reply but please attackers must response according its abilities regardless the tactical approach ST with pressing forward role must press and not boring to run.

[milenec11]

5 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

 

That should help explain it.

Ok I read it . You have this year different approach at the line of engagement but I have to mention that is a lack of “communication “ or balance between User CB because and every role left gap between them . Even if a give to one of them cover role the gap remain .

[lordjanos]

Weird how I'm sitting in joint 1st in Vanarama North with Scarborough. Game is so rigged against players 🙄

[milenec11]

25 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

Ok I read it . You have this year different approach at the line of engagement but I have to mention that is a lack of “communication “ or balance between User CB because and every role left gap between them . Even if a give to one of them cover role the gap remain .

as we speak i have ( if i may ) a suugetion......

its possible to add an option for the CB to play close each other? cause i notice that at tactical position approach the cap between CB must be between 4 to 6 meters and on some occutions the gap are much bigger

[milenec11]

3 minutes ago, lordjanos said:

Weird how I'm sitting in joint 1st in Vanarama North with Scarborough. Game is so rigged against players 🙄

what am i trying to say here ? its not balanced well between AI vs USER

[lordjanos]

There is no difference between AI and User in the match engine. How many times does it need to be said?!

[Johnny Ace]

16 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

what am i trying to say here ? its not balanced well between AI vs USER

There's zero difference. the ME doesn't know who the human is 

[milenec11]

ok mates then my bad 

continue and don't make any alterations at all let it as it is

[HUNT3R]

24 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

its possible to add an option for the CB to play close each other? cause i notice that at tactical position approach the cap between CB must be between 4 to 6 meters and on some occutions the gap are much bigger

I haven't played around with the settings a lot, but how are you setting up your tactic? Are you possibly using a 4 man defense and using "Trap Inside"? This is how I see it - your team will defend very wide in order to trap the opposition inside. That increases the distance between your defenders, possibly too much. I'm not ruling out ME issues either, but for right now, I'm trying to focus on what you can control at least.

26 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

what am i trying to say here ? its not balanced well between AI vs USER

I indicated earlier that the ME cannot distinguish human from AI.

So with that in mind, I am not dismissing that you're experiencing an imbalance. What I am saying is that if there's an imbalance, since both you and the AI have the same tools available, it is something you can control. If the AI is capable of something, so are you. If there's a ME issue, it's going to affect both you and the AI. That's good news, since it means there's something you can do to improve it (you can also make it worse, but let's focus on the positives ) but either you need to figure out what's going on or you should provide more information so we can advise you.

You mentioned the goals you conceded being almost own goals. It would be great to see how you set up and what those goals looked like. Without seeing it, there may be factors contributing to seeing what you are. Possible team cohesion or language/communication issues in the defense? Tactical familiarity issues? Are you possibly too passive/deep that you're inviting too much pressure? Are the defenders often nervous or anxious? Those are the sorts of questions I'd ask if it was happening to me and then I'd analyse things to try and find an answer. There should really always be one, in my opinion, if you're seeing patterns.

 

[Harrymcintyre]

Buddy, in all these weeks of a lot of moaning about these defensive issues from a lot of people & how the defending is broken, I’ve seen maybe 1 or 2 instances of balls going over the top and defenders not defending it. I’ve quickly shut it down in my games and I don’t get it mostly. Why? Cos I read the tactics area of this forum & and I watch & learn from a guy like bustthenet, who does excellent YouTube videos. 
The beautiful secret of this game, is that there’s not actually much wrong with the ME, but it has evolved from other FMs. There’s nothing that can’t be resolved tactically. 

[milenec11]

29 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I haven't played around with the settings a lot, but how are you setting up your tactic? Are you possibly using a 4 man defense and using "Trap Inside"? This is how I see it - your team will defend very wide in order to trap the opposition inside. That increases the distance between your defenders, possibly too much. I'm not ruling out ME issues either, but for right now, I'm trying to focus on what you can control at least.

I indicated earlier that the ME cannot distinguish human from AI.

So with that in mind, I am not dismissing that you're experiencing an imbalance. What I am saying is that if there's an imbalance, since both you and the AI have the same tools available, it is something you can control. If the AI is capable of something, so are you. If there's a ME issue, it's going to affect both you and the AI. That's good news, since it means there's something you can do to improve it (you can also make it worse, but let's focus on the positives ) but either you need to figure out what's going on or you should provide more information so we can advise you.

You mentioned the goals you conceded being almost own goals. It would be great to see how you set up and what those goals looked like. Without seeing it, there may be factors contributing to seeing what you are. Possible team cohesion or language/communication issues in the defense? Tactical familiarity issues? Are you possibly too passive/deep that you're inviting too much pressure? Are the defenders often nervous or anxious? Those are the sorts of questions I'd ask if it was happening to me and then I'd analyse things to try and find an answer. There should really always be one, in my opinion, if you're seeing patterns.

 

there were diflects

i have not press any order on out of posotion section

[Lesterfan_Cambiasso]

Id have to say a common theme on FM games is always that ball over the top scenario. Defenders should be far more able to deal with balls over the top and through balls than they are IMO.

 

[milenec11]

something else that just happen 

 i repeat the game via reload 3 times 

and both 3 times a lost the game 2-1 

i score first goal at all 3 times and at first half to 2 KONE my VOLANTE was sendind off with direct red card and at the third time my other pivot tapia it he that was sending off with direct red card 

3 time some score 

i score first 

and i was 3 times with 10 mens at first half and lost the game 2-1 3 times 

COMPLETEEEEEEE NORMAL AS REAL LIFE 

not an issue at all

[kevhamster]

My honest suggestion would be, if you think there is an issue with what you're seeing upload a screenshot of your tactics and a PKM of the match for people to review.

[milenec11]

the only thing that bothers me isn't the solution is that none else see it.

i will

[milenec11]

fourth time 

3-2 lost now 

i change my dm now with berg 

what i suprise when sending off with direct red card at 32 min ( yes once more 1st half) when  the score was ...guess .... yESSSSS 0-1 scored by beto in 4th minute with a rebound 

completly normal 

[DarJ]

@milenec11if you’re so sure, you can upload your save I’m sure people would like to give it a try 

[kevhamster]

19 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

the only thing that bothers me isn't the solution is that none else see it.

i will

Nobody else will be able to see it until you upload the stuff to clearly demonstrate your issue.

[enigmatic]

49 minutes ago, Lesterfan_Cambiasso said:

Id have to say a common theme on FM games is always that ball over the top scenario. Defenders should be far more able to deal with balls over the top and through balls than they are IMO.

 

tbh, this is one of the best FMs for that. Even very high lines aren't that risky if you have quick defenders and control the middle of the pitch, and good defences set a bit lower do a decent job even against quick AFs

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, milenec11 said:

 

 i repeat the game via reload 3 times 

COMPLETEEEEEEE NORMAL AS REAL LIFE 

 

I always laugh when I see this. People complaining about stuff being not like real life - After reloading and playing the same game over and over. 

This forum never fails to disappoint. 

[milenec11]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I always laugh when I see this. People complaining about stuff being not like real life - After reloading and playing the same game over and over. 

This forum never fails to disappoint. 

Yeeeeesssss to prove what I said . If you don’t want proves then don’t bother to participate here just to mock…

[kevhamster]

11 minutes ago, milenec11 said:

Yeeeeesssss to prove what I said . If you don’t want proves then don’t bother to participate here just to mock…

And you still haven't uploaded any evidence to show the issue you're having. 

Upload your save file, tactics and PKM of the match.  If you want people to take it seriously and provide help, you need to help yourself first by supplying the stuff so people can actually look into it. 

[KillYourIdols]

If I stuck my hand in Boling water and wanted to test if it was a one-off, I wouldn't reboil it and stick my hand in it again because I would get the same outcome unless I approached it differently.

Edited November 9, 2022 by KillYourIdols

[Johnny Ace]

If  @milenec11has a genuine tactical problem, feel free to start your own thread on the Tactics and Training board and ask for help with a screenshot of your tactic and a description of what's going wrong

If you think there's a bug in the match engine, upload a bug report in ME Bug Tracker which I linked you too earlier, with your PKMs and timestamps

If you think the ME is against you, you won't get any sympathy here because it's 100% not true 

The ME simulates football between two teams, that's it 

[Pafnus]

ME is same for ai and players