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QF4: England vs France, 7PM GMT, Al Bayt Stadium

Darius1998

By Darius1998,
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git2thachoppa

git2thachoppa

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3 minutes ago, ginnybob said:

We'll pop the "Loses 2-1 to defending champions and favourites after dominating" trophy in the cabinet

We'll boot every manager because they don't win the trophy you think we're entitled to because Ingerland.

More than Brazil or Netherlands or anyone else, evidently.

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Lucas

Lucas

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2 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

We'll boot every manager because they don't win the trophy you think we're entitled to because Ingerland.

More than Brazil or Netherlands or anyone else, evidently.

I'm not sure where supporting your country and believing they can win means "entitled", but okay.

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Lucas

Lucas

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Just now, git2thachoppa said:

Yeah those aren't the same thing, don't know where you got that from.

Well I'm telling you that's what the majority of fans approach it as, nobody feels entitled to win anything. 

Unless you're Ronaldo.

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git2thachoppa

git2thachoppa

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Well I'm telling you that's what the majority of fans approach it as, nobody feels entitled to win anything. 

Unless you're Ronaldo.

Not sure what that has to do with me and my mockery of moving the goalposts, but I'll inform my species back in the Andromeda galaxy of this bombshell.

Edited by git2thachoppa
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enigmatic

enigmatic

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27 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Yeah, it was definitely Walker who prevented the ball getting to Mbappe and he was definitely alone whenever Mbappe got the ball. Your entire plan was to funnel them to the right side because Dembele is wasteful. 

You got me, another player tackled Mbappe once and other players pressed, so basically we had a third of the team not bothering to attack because they were busy man marking Mbappe.

Seriously, France doubled up more often (and less effectively) on Saka, and defended deeper with the quickest back line in the competition. Not actually sure doubling up when we had possession for 30 seconds or more was the limiting factor in their attack though...

 

27 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Kane disputed his own credentials. The narrative of potentially the best #9 in the world was constantly showed down our throats and he never delivered when it mattered the most. Hard to win trophies with Tottenham, but for England he had his chances in every big match you got eliminated from and failed. Tactics aren't optimal, but chances were there.

I mean, show me a striker that hasn't missed chances in big matches his side lost! Or scored more of his goals against weaker opponents. If you're under the illusion Kane doesn't have crucial goals against elite sides you should probably try watching him more though. Even scored a couple from open play against the mighty Croatian shootout kings!

Just say the "bottled" line for that specific penalty, which is probably going to land back on earth any time soon. Sounds much more like someone who has paid the slightest bit of attention to football before than insisting Kane isn't a proper striker because he doesn't score against good sides :D 

 

17 minutes ago, ginnybob said:

We'll pop the "Loses 2-1 to defending champions and favourites after dominating" trophy in the cabinet

Will look great alongside our "we went out in the first knockout round, but at least we played whoever the media hyped the most that week from the start" trophies and "stop fannying around and lob it to the striker" trophies we used to win.

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AM99

AM99

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36 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

Nah. Nah man, tell me I've not just read a Sean Dacha for England suggestion. 

I'm logging off. 

I mean, if we're talking English managers (on the basis that I don't think we'll go the foreign route should Southgate leave) he is the best outside of Potter and Howe. Personally I'd be happy with him managing England.

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GunmaN1905

GunmaN1905

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3 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

 Kane isn't a proper striker because he doesn't score against good sides :D 

Oh, he's a great striker, just not someone who delivers in the biggest moments.

The captain, the golden boot, leading scorer etc, but in the past three matches you were eliminated, he failed. And is directly to blame for two. Point blank sitter at 1-0 in 2018, today he missed one sitter and a penalty. 

For example, Lukaku rightfully gets the flat track bully reputation, but Kane is the same level of player. Just isn't clumsy with the ball, so it doesn't look bad. But mentality wise, they're up there.

To be a top striker, you need to be a bit of a c*nt. Kane is too nice.

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Darren Moores Mum

Darren Moores Mum

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8 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Oh, he's a great striker, just not someone who delivers in the biggest moments.

The captain, the golden boot, leading scorer etc, but in the past three matches you were eliminated, he failed. And is directly to blame for two. Point blank sitter at 1-0 in 2018, today he missed one sitter and a penalty. 

For example, Lukaku rightfully gets the flat track bully reputation, but Kane is the same level of player. Just isn't clumsy with the ball, so it doesn't look bad. But mentality wise, they're up there.

To be a top striker, you need to be a bit of a c*nt. Kane is too nice.

What current top strikers are we comparing him to? And I mean on an international stage.

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enigmatic

enigmatic

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3 minutes ago, AM99 said:

I mean, if we're talking English managers (on the basis that I don't think we'll go the foreign route should Southgate leave) he is the best outside of Potter and Howe. Personally I'd be happy with him managing England.

Think Dyche might have done well five years ago when we were a bit bereft of confidence and all the other big sides seemed to have better players than us... the sort of situation he's spent basically his entire career dealing with

But the idea the golden generation is being wasted on defensive Gareth so what we really need is Dyche to take the shackles off is hilarious. 

 

1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Oh, he's a great striker, just not someone who delivers in the biggest moments.

The captain, the golden boot, leading scorer etc, but in the past three matches you were eliminated, he failed. And is directly to blame for two. Point blank sitter at 1-0 in 2018, today he missed one sitter and a penalty. 

For example, Lukaku rightfully gets the flat track bully reputation, but Kane is the same level of player. Just isn't clumsy with the ball, so it doesn't look bad. But mentality wise, they're up there.

To be a top striker, you need to be a bit of a c*nt. Kane is too nice.

Taking your criteria of "OK, he scored in two of those big games but he also missed chances and didn't score in the one he didn't get a chance," for not delivering in the big moments precisely no strikers have ever been good.

I guess that he's in good company with being too nice with Cristiano :D 

The Lukaku thing is overblown (weight control problems and having no first touch is a much bigger problem than scoring more goals against bottom half sides than the "big six") but Kane has so many more goals against big sides than him its funny to compare the two...

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Icondacarver

Icondacarver

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1 hour ago, Confused Clarity said:

There were times when he looked like the biggest leader on the field. 

He's 19 years old FFS.

Give it time, he will make one key mistake and the press will pile in on him. He will become risk-averse and seek to play in a way that means the press don't vilify him.

Daily Mail have not yet found the angle to start a vendetta against him yet. That is in their 2024/25 plans.

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mrw072

mrw072

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I've only just seen this thread, so haven't read the previous pages.  But personally I thought England were great, they didn't start well but really pressurised France especially in the 2nd half and only remember Giroud having those two chances.  When he scored one.  But apart from that they were on the back foot.  I guess that's why they're World Champions though, by being able to do that.

For me England just lack a striker who can play with Kane, as he sometimes drops very deep, and we need someone who can get on the end of loose balls or crosses in the box.

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mrw072

mrw072

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Just now, Rebs said:

Beliiiiiieeeeeeve.

Oh, no, that's passed.

Anyway, give Gareth another go I say. I think we should be proud how we did. We looked just as good as anyone else. 

It's fine margins.  If Maguire's header had gone in.  What then?  I think England just lack a striker to play with Kane.  It would mean dropping either Foden or Saka but I just don't feel theyr'e natural goalscorers.

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_mxrky

_mxrky

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Laughing about some of the comments on Saka saying he should be subbed in the first half. you guys were watching a different game. It can’t have been this one. Also at what point do we admit Saka is bette than Foden. Far more impactful almost every single England game.

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Christmas

Christmas

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Absolutely delightful seeing Harry Maguire suffer. Least likeable player in a world which includes Cristiano Ronaldo. 

Constantly whining at the referee and diving in France's box. Then speaking nonsense about the ref in the post match interview. Utter *****. 

Game was disappointing. Would have much rather seen a comedy implosion rather than what we got, a finely balanced game where France just got better of the breaks. Well played England. Feel for the excellent Saka and the under-used Rashford. Subs largely harmed England. 

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Divinity

Divinity

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3 minutes ago, Christmas said:

Sterling shoved Mbappe to the floor leading to an England break. But the corrupt referee didn't give two-penalty England anything. 

Not sure what value any of your comment brings considering Henderson wasn't on the pitch when Sterling was, but you fight that fight. :thup: 

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Confused Clarity

Confused Clarity

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3 minutes ago, dking said:

dking has just been made redundant so probably not far from the truth.

Merry Christmas!

Well that royally sucks. Having had that happen to me, I know its really not a nice feeling or a place to be in. It must be especially bad at this time of year.

Don't know the specifics of your situation, but with mine, I was let go at the end of the month, with no warning, and just before the two year protections would kick in. I was effectively put on gardening leave for the following month. I then treated that month as if my full time job was to get a new job. I justvapplied for everything,  chased recruiters, went to interviews and then was able to get sorted.

It wasn't the nicest of feelings though for sure. But there is light on the other side.

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Ackter

Ackter

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Southgates squad choices were total bollocks too. He used, what, 15 players regularly?

Theres a reason he didn't touch the other 10 or however many, which means he picked players he didn't trust in his system and also has a complete inability to change the system in any way with different players.

He's not good enough to win anything because he only has one plan.

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error username in use

error username in use

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I know everyone loves the glow of doing alright but Southgate has had the best player pool we probably have ever had and come up with nothing.

2018, we beat the dross and lost to anyone half decent 

2020/21, we had a home Euros and only played one good team and lost that

2022 another bunch of no mark wins and a loss as soon as someone proper is put in front of us 

it’s not good enough to chuck this generation away just because he has got the team to be friends and wears waistcoats. 

our problem is who else is there that is ready for the job and would take it right now?

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nico_france

nico_france

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Il y a 9 heures, Rebs a dit :

If we'd have had a ref who made the correct calls as the majority of the world saw it we'd have won. On top of that, we generally seem to have been seen as the better side in the match.

Gareth should stay, it's been a good tournament from us. 

Sure the refs fault, the second penalty was a total no brainer

Mount could not get that ball, but still

I’m sorry but when you can only rely on penalties to score, because you can’t make it  otherwise 

You just can’t win, had to be more clinical upfront

Great generation of players in any case, don’t understand why Saka did not remain on the pitch, as he was the most dangerous player upfront 

 

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Mr Adam

Mr Adam

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Having slept on it and not read any other opinion yet as don’t want mine to be influenced,

1) I am happy for Gareth to stay. He’s done a good enough job to have earned the right to stay if he wants to.

2) Equally I would not begrudge him walking away if he feels it’s time for change. Because fresh ideas ARE needed

3) Perhaps it’s time he brought in a second assistant manager to work with him and Steve Holland at the Euros. That person COULD be a high profile coach who then could go on to replace him for the World Cup. And they should be strong enough to provide that additional tactical thinking to help mix it up a bit.

 

Steven Gerrard or Wayne Rooney to become his assistant? I’d trust Gareth enough to be honest with the FA as to whether they’re ready when Gareth steps aside in 2 years.

The most likely candidate whether anybody likes it or not is Phil Neville. Which would seem very Southgate MK2

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Mr Adam

Mr Adam

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4 hours ago, _mxrky said:

Laughing about some of the comments on Saka saying he should be subbed in the first half. you guys were watching a different game. It can’t have been this one. Also at what point do we admit Saka is bette than Foden. Far more impactful almost every single England game.

Saka definitely fits the way this England side plays better than Foden does. But Foden is the better player. It’s closer than many think tho.

Despite our decent run, I’d say probably Saka and strangely Harry Kane would be the only players to have come out of it with enhanced reputations. 

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Lucas

Lucas

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Maguire too, and probably Jude Bellingham (if only because for many they won't have seen him much). 

I would like Gareth to think about his future within the FA beyond being manager as I hope he stays in some way. He's a great ambassador and it would hurt to just lose him. 

Not sure who comes in as an apprentice to be manager though. 

 

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Baptista_8

Baptista_8

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27 minutes ago, nico_france said:

Sure the refs fault, the second penalty was a total no brainer

Mount could not get that ball, but still

I’m sorry but when you can only rely on penalties to score, because you can’t make it  otherwise 

You just can’t win, had to be more clinical upfront

Great generation of players in any case, don’t understand why Saka did not remain on the pitch, as he was the most dangerous player upfront 

 

Tougher to create chances when Upamecano is kicking lumps out of people and getting away with it every single time.

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Toffle

Toffle

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Sure you could complain if the ref had been very one-sided. But he gave you 2 pens, booked Griezmann right after a clear foul on Mbappé, and kept the same idea not to whistle at every little foul (for both teams!) which was very pleasant.. Many people outside of England think the ref did a great job actually. Just read the whole thread and not only English comments.

You didn't lose that game because of the ref, find other excuses.

 

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Confused Clarity

Confused Clarity

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Both he & VAR chose to ignore when Giroud got shoved over in the box off the ball too. Could easily have been given, even if it's a bit of a rarity. 

He allowed a robust, physical game to flow. In an alternative universe, people would be complaining that he was whistle happy and ruined the game with all the stoppages.

Edited by Confused Clarity
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