FM23 match engine v FM22 match engine

[joebailey141]

Which do you prefer? A simple answer of 22 or 23 is what I am after.....

 

Undecided on buying the new game and my enjoyment always comes down to the match engine. Reading lots of conflicting reviews online so would love the feedback of the community.

 

Thanks!

[DarJ]

I prefer FM23 although there are things that still annoy me.

you can play the demo and see which one you prefer, it’s free to download anyway and you’ll be the best judge 

[XaW]

As @DarJwrites, try the demo. There are certainly issues, but personally I think it's vastly superiour to FM22. That said, there could be things that you find that are bigger issues than me, so have a go with the beta and make your own decisions. You're likely to get anything on the scale based on personal preference.

[andu1]

I prefer 23. It's a bit better than 22. But both are good IMO. I have a save in FM 22 that i go back from time to time.

[forameuss]

If only there was a completely free piece of software that allowed you to form your own opinion, rather than trust those of (often biased) strangers.

Not one single person's opinion on the ME is going to be a substitute for your own.  100 people could tell you it's brilliant with no faults, and you could hate it, or everyone says how terrible it is, but you don't see it.  

[joebailey141]

Sure, I know the demo would give me an idea and is a useful tool.

 

However, I find that it takes a good few seasons of trying various different tactics to truly discover how the match engine works and how well it can replicate my tactical ideas. Appreciate any feedback (and aware it could vary wildly) but will also dip in to the demo.

 

Thank you to all so far.....

 

 

[joebailey141]

P.S graphics are largely irrelevant to me as I play in 2D. More interested in how well you can implement tactical ideas e.g wingers actually staying wide when asked, magical number 10s with free roles playing this way and causing chaos etc.

[herne79]

20 minutes ago, joebailey141 said:

Sure, I know the demo would give me an idea and is a useful tool.

 

However, I find that it takes a good few seasons of trying various different tactics to truly discover how the match engine works and how well it can replicate my tactical ideas. Appreciate any feedback (and aware it could vary wildly) but will also dip in to the demo.

 

Thank you to all so far.....

 

 

Trying to learn how the ME works is not relevant.  Understand football, not the ME.  Then consider how tactics work in combination with player attributes.

The demo is perfectly fine for experimenting with tactics and players 👍.

[forameuss]

19 minutes ago, joebailey141 said:

Sure, I know the demo would give me an idea and is a useful tool.

 

However, I find that it takes a good few seasons of trying various different tactics to truly discover how the match engine works and how well it can replicate my tactical ideas. Appreciate any feedback (and aware it could vary wildly) but will also dip in to the demo.

 

Thank you to all so far.....

 

 

But how exactly do you expect other people's opinions to be able to "replicate your tactical ideas"?  With these reasons, there's even less reason to take those opinions with so much weight.

[joebailey141]

This is not really what I am asking for. Obviously what I am trying to convey is not coming across.

 

So, with that in mind, please ignore everything else I said and simply let me know: what is you favourite match engine? 22 or 23?

[CR#7]

23 no doubt 

[SimonHoddle]

Haha. So subjective. I can see improvements (eg the chaos of football) have been implemented. But these changes seem to cause irrational behaviour in players such as kicking balls out for corners for no reason or losing control of the ball with v little pressure.

Generally a new  version of FM has always been about marginal gains and this year has been very marginal IMO. I would vote for 22 over 23. But I’m probably in the minority.

[TheAwesomeGem]

FM 23. I couldn't stand bad teams passing around like prime barca in FM 22.

[Lord Duffucus]

FM23 for me, by a considerable distance. As well as the general AI being better as you'd expect with natural progression (especially since the last patch) the ball physics and animations seem that much more realistic and the variation in action/types of goals is better too. Not forgetting the great improvements made to goalkeeping.

Of course there are random instances when weird things happen but then it's the same in real life! I'm really enjoying this year's engine, more so than ever before I think. 

Don't get me wrong, I still don't like the fact that when I'm playing with a level nine side, for example, the stadiums are very unrealistic and that there's still no way they can be skinned/altered etc now that playing that low down is becoming so common (even if SI don't build the game for that), and the pitches are in too good a condition at some levels even with the pitch textures pack added, but in terms of the actual football bit, 23 is by far the best yet in my opinion.

[iAlwaysWin]

Well ive went back to FM22 cause i think its just a better game, wide players are better on FM22, less random results on FM22, feels like am in more control of my team and how they perform.

Also i dont like the new champions league setup in FM23 but thats not Si fault thats UEFA.

[priority76]

Not sure if it counts as "the match engine" but the improved animation on the nets when the ball hits them makes the FM23 match experience infinitely better.

[priority76]

1 hour ago, Lord Duffucus said:

the stadiums are very unrealistic and that there's still no way they can be skinned/altered etc

They can certainly be altered.

 

[Lord Duffucus]

Yeah I've seen that before, just haven't got round to trying to sort it. Might have a go at some point. 

[Lord Duffucus]

Double post.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Lord Duffucus

[ScottishFM]

Personally, now I've managed to have 5+ seasons in FM23, I'd say FM22 is better. Which surprises me because when I played the FM23 ME during the beta, I absolutely loved it. The passing, the different types of goals etc.

Since the full release and the most recent patch/update, I personally feel the ME has taken a huge step back. So much so, I'd say it's worse than FM22 but I appreciate it's a matter of opinion.

As others have said, try the demo and see what you think for yourself or hold off until January and pick it up on sale which it'll likely be on.

[Johnny Ace]

Prefer FM22 right now

[SimonHoddle]

1 hour ago, ScottishFM said:

Personally, now I've managed to have 5+ seasons in FM23, I'd say FM22 is better. Which surprises me because when I played the FM23 ME during the beta, I absolutely loved it. The passing, the different types of goals etc.

Since the full release and the most recent patch/update, I personally feel the ME has taken a huge step back. So much so, I'd say it's worse than FM22 but I appreciate it's a matter of opinion.

As others have said, try the demo and see what you think for yourself or hold off until January and pick it up on sale which it'll likely be on.

That does seem to happen a lot. First version fun and then the updates kick in which kill the variety. What did you like about the Beta which has been lost after the update?

[ScottishFM]

8 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

That does seem to happen a lot. First version fun and then the updates kick in which kill the variety. What did you like about the Beta which has been lost after the update?

I felt the variety of goals was so much better, I was seeing goals and build up play I'd never seen before where as now almost 80% of the goals (in my favour or against) are over the top balls or 25 yard screamers.

Also the amount of pointless free-kick highlights is beyond tedious, 30 yards+ and not on target is not a key highlight imo.

[SimonHoddle]

Just now, ScottishFM said:

I felt the variety of goals was so much better, I was seeing goals and build up play I'd never seen before where as now almost 80% of the goals (in my favour or against) are over the top balls or 25 yard screamers.

Also the amount of pointless free-kick highlights is beyond tedious, 30 yards+ and not on target is not a key highlight imo.

Haha on the free kicks.

first point is concerning because I don’t think you’re alone in that opinion. Not sure why SI would reduce variety when it makes viewing so much more enjoyable. But the more players who say it the more I believe something has been changed for the worse. 
 

I loved 22 and I thought 23 was going to be a finessed upgrade. Beginning to think otherwise. Shame.
 

[enigmatic]

FM23

FM22 had a pretty major flaw in that defensive sides set to play out the back kept the ball way too easily, even if they weren't very good, and especially if you didn't play a very aggressive press against them

FM23 doesn't have this flaw. Sides are a bit slow to progress the ball through the middle of the pitch in the opposition half (they tend to build up nicely and patiently then go wide and come back in again or play through balls or long diagonals) but that's a relatively subtle flaw, and no FM has ever had perfect play through the lines. FM23 also has slightly updated options for organising your defensive shape which are IMO better, even though I don't change them very often.

 

Don't forget, FM23 will be patched with an updated Match Engine in the new year. FM22 obviously wo't change

[upthetoon]

Fm23. It's better but not by much. That's the most disappointing thing and why I think fm23 is just not the worth the purchase. 

Ask this question again, once the final patch in march has arrived

[Pafnus]

i think that fm 23 is better

[2feet]

On 15/12/2022 at 13:11, XaW said:

but personally I think it's vastly superiour to FM22

I'm curious to hear from an experienced player why fm23 is better... could you just briefly say why?

[XaW]

5 hours ago, 2feet said:

I'm curious to hear from an experienced player why fm23 is better... could you just briefly say why?

Well, total honesty, I preferred the pre-patch match engine to the one we have now. Sure it had a few issues, especially with defensive movement, but it was the best one I can remember. The one we have now is a slightly lesser fun version, but still better in my view.

• One of my issues with FM22 was that it felt like the players didn't attempt to follow all instructions, but rather did their own thing at times. In FM23 I feel that the players are more trying to follow my instructions. And it feels like when things are going bad, they are my faults more than the players (personal errors aside) and I feel I have a much bigger impact on how the match ebbs and flows based on my changes.
• The chaos in midfield, though not as obvious as in the initial ME is still preferable to FM22
• I also really like the change to goalkeepers, but I think that's rather obvious to anyone playing, so I won't go into much detail there.
• It rewards more well thought out tactics and changes rather than exploit tactics. That's not to say exploit tactics won't work anymore, but I think sound tactical setups work so much better now.
• Not my personal experience, but others have said defensive tactics are far more viable now (I still use my old trusted tactic from FM17 that still works fine).
• My final, and biggest enjoyment with FM23 is hard to quantify and equal hard to explain other than it just _feels_ better.

Also, and this in not directly match engine related, but I also really like my long term save more this year and I'm far more invested in it than any of my saves in FM22. Not sure why, but the experience is just more enjoyable overall. I'm sure there are several more things I don't remember at the moment, as I was just popping in quickly and typing this up as I go along.

[SimonHoddle]

35 minutes ago, XaW said:

Well, total honesty, I preferred the pre-patch match engine to the one we have now. Sure it had a few issues, especially with defensive movement, but it was the best one I can remember. The one we have now is a slightly lesser fun version, but still better in my view.

• One of my issues with FM22 was that it felt like the players didn't attempt to follow all instructions, but rather did their own thing at times. In FM23 I feel that the players are more trying to follow my instructions. And it feels like when things are going bad, they are my faults more than the players (personal errors aside) and I feel I have a much bigger impact on how the match ebbs and flows based on my changes.
• The chaos in midfield, though not as obvious as in the initial ME is still preferable to FM22
• I also really like the change to goalkeepers, but I think that's rather obvious to anyone playing, so I won't go into much detail there.
• It rewards more well thought out tactics and changes rather than exploit tactics. That's not to say exploit tactics won't work anymore, but I think sound tactical setups work so much better now.
• Not my personal experience, but others have said defensive tactics are far more viable now (I still use my old trusted tactic from FM17 that still works fine).
• My final, and biggest enjoyment with FM23 is hard to quantify and equal hard to explain other than it just _feels_ better.

Also, and this in not directly match engine related, but I also really like my long term save more this year and I'm far more invested in it than any of my saves in FM22. Not sure why, but the experience is just more enjoyable overall. I'm sure there are several more things I don't remember at the moment, as I was just popping in quickly and typing this up as I go along.

Really interesting that you say the update has made it less fun. I agree. It’s almost imperceptible but there’s something missing. What do you think has been lost and why would SI do that??

I wish I could agree on players followIng instructions. Far too many times I’ve seen my world class defenders totally ignore someone I have told to always MM. 

good to see a positive view articulated though :-)

[g1nh0]

Personally at this moment in time, it's got to be FM22 for me. It at least is definitely the more fun engine to play.

When I played the first ME of this year's game, I did really like the way there was a greater tactical flexibility. It has great potential to play very well, and although it did have some major flaws, I was hoping this would be fixed in the ME update.

However although some major problems were looked into and improved, I don't know why but the fun element just seems to have has been completely removed compared to FM22, and the first ME of FM23.

Personally, I'd love a game that is a mix between the FM22 and first ME of FM23 without the flaws, whilst keeping the fun element of FM22. For me it would be a nice balance between tactical flexibility and enjoyment, especially when you've had a long day and just want to enjoy playing the game in the evening.

At this moment I've stopped playing FM23 as I'm simply not enjoying it since the latest update. I hope this is improved in the next and potentially final patch. If it's not, then I'll be extremely disappointed at how this year's version with a lot of initial promise has ended up not providing any of the enjoyment that I had in last year's game.

Edited December 17, 2022 by g1nh0

[XaW]

7 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

Really interesting that you say the update has made it less fun. I agree. It’s almost imperceptible but there’s something missing. What do you think has been lost and why would SI do that??

I wish I could agree on players followIng instructions. Far too many times I’ve seen my world class defenders totally ignore someone I have told to always MM. 

good to see a positive view articulated though :-)

Yeah, I have no qualms of giving critique of the game when I feel it's justified, no matter how much I get called a "defender of SI" or whatever. Being a mod does not exclude us from giving harsh critical comments, it's just more on us to do it constructively just as we try to get everyone else to do as well. We are also not employed by SI, for those who don't know. We are just slightly above interested FM players who has been around here for a while and tried to help out over a long time before being asked if we wish to do so in a more formal way. All of us are here on our spare time because we like the game and the community around it so why would we not give our honest opinion of the game in both things to praise and point out issues or short-comings?

No clue why it was done, but often these things happens due to other things being fixed. The match engine is a very complex piece of work, which is why SI are so reluctant to push out quick fixes for what might seem to be a small issue in matches. There are endless cycles of tweaking and testing to make sure things work as intended for just about every small thing, but some times unintended things can happen. I also was annoyed at the strange things that defenders did with long balls pre-patch, and I agree it should be fixed, but I still preferred that version. It's not a massive downgrade, but it just felt good with a bit more grittiness of football compared to now.

I don't use man marking at all, since I feel it only causes my players to leave their designated zones and cause big holes in my tactic,, so I can't say much about that specific part of thing. I'd simply say report issues in the bug tracker with examples, since that's the best way to get those parts of the game improved.

[autohoratio]

25 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

What do you think has been lost and why would SI do that??

For one, high pressing is less effective than before, presumably as part of the changes made to reduce the amount of long balls from CBs over the oppposition defence, and now CBs are back to their FM22 behaviour of passing amongst each other too much.

[fc.cadoni]

The good thing, is that 433 DM Wide Gegenpress is less effective in FM23 from FM22.
The major change is the double pivot in DM strata and the removal of some formations (less formations = easier to tweak ME?)
The bad thing, is that sometimes there no defending at all where your DC or DRL can easily won the ball or be more challenging.
Another issue which SI have examples in Bug Tracker, is that when a DL or DR player can easily cut the ball - cross the ball inside penalty area; they return it back to someone else.

As thing stands, FM22 so far

[wazzaflow10]

15 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

Another issue which SI have examples in Bug Tracker, is that when a DL or DR player can easily cut the ball - cross the ball inside penalty area; they return it back to someone else.

This is the second most annoying thing in this years version. Wide open on the flank? On your strong foot? Plenty of players in the box? Yes, Yes, Yes! 

NO! this is a perfect opportunity to run to the byline, stop, wait for a defender to close you down and either

1) pass the ball 30 yards backwards to a holding midfielder

2) kick it off him for a corner that is cleared with ease 

3) Just stand there and let the defender take the ball to launch a devastating counter attack

I don't know if it's that they haven't figure out how to deal with crosses being over powered so they limit the number. Or they haven't gotten the animations right or a good enough variety of outcomes (thinking cross but overhit or straight to the keeper etc etc. Almost never see that). 

[2feet]

1 hour ago, wazzaflow10 said:

This is the second most annoying thing in this years version. Wide open on the flank? On your strong foot? Plenty of players in the box? Yes, Yes, Yes! 

NO! this is a perfect opportunity to run to the byline, stop, wait for a defender to close you down and either

1) pass the ball 30 yards backwards to a holding midfielder

2) kick it off him for a corner that is cleared with ease 

3) Just stand there and let the defender take the ball to launch a devastating counter attack

I don't know if it's that they haven't figure out how to deal with crosses being over powered so they limit the number. Or they haven't gotten the animations right or a good enough variety of outcomes (thinking cross but overhit or straight to the keeper etc etc. Almost never see that). 

Is the player's decision to not cross something to do with the risk setting (mentality)?

If the player feels the likelihood is that his cross will be intercepted, then instead he plays safe in order to maintain possession and wait for a better chance?

And is his ability to judge the risk of his situation determined by his decisions attribute?

So it may be worth crossing the ball but a low decisions attribute means the player cant properly assess that?

You would think though that in real life football, in that advanced wing position a player more often gambles, regardless of the overall team mentality, because the reward is a potential goal. 'Put it in the mixer' as they say?

Although maybe possession teams like Man City will more often check back, in such advanced wide positions?

 

[joebailey141]

Thank you everyone for your interesting feedback so far. Food for thought…..

Going to purchase FM23 today! 

[SimonHoddle]

1 hour ago, joebailey141 said:

Thank you everyone for your interesting feedback so far. Food for thought…..

Going to purchase FM23 today! 

Hope you enjoy. We await your feedback! 

[priority76]

2 hours ago, joebailey141 said:

Going to purchase FM23 today! 

Good decision!

On a different matter, has anyone at all seen a goal from a corner either for or against since the last update?  I've played almost two seasons and have not seen a single one.  Just looking for reassurance they are still in the game.

[wazzaflow10]

5 hours ago, 2feet said:

Is the player's decision to not cross something to do with the risk setting (mentality)?

If the player feels the likelihood is that his cross will be intercepted, then instead he plays safe in order to maintain possession and wait for a better chance?

And is his ability to judge the risk of his situation determined by his decisions attribute?

So it may be worth crossing the ball but a low decisions attribute means the player cant properly assess that?

You would think though that in real life football, in that advanced wing position a player more often gambles, regardless of the overall team mentality, because the reward is a potential goal. 'Put it in the mixer' as they say?

Although maybe possession teams like Man City will more often check back, in such advanced wide positions?

 

I’ve tried cross more often, longer passes take more risks as PI’s. I haven’t seen a significant difference. There’s still crossing of course but there’s some obvious times when the cross is on and they don’t play it in. Or even the cut back if it’s an inverted winger or inside forward on the ball. The amount of times a player gets to the byline inside the penalty area and just stops because they’ve run out of room and never play a ball into a dangerous area is too frequent imo. 
 

i like to think it’s just a limitation of what is being represented but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating.

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Do goalkeepers ever get injured or sent off in FM23? I have never experienced this in any FM.

And are there any handballs given anywhere on the pitch? I'm still playing fm22 and can't recall seeing these happen either.

[enigmatic]

3 hours ago, priority76 said:

Good decision!

On a different matter, has anyone at all seen a goal from a corner either for or against since the last update?  I've played almost two seasons and have not seen a single one.  Just looking for reassurance they are still in the game.

Yes, several. My centre backs have 6 goals between them for the season and I've definitely conceded too.

[XaW]

23 minutes ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

Do goalkeepers ever get injured or sent off in FM23? I have never experienced this in any FM.

And are there any handballs given anywhere on the pitch? I'm still playing fm22 and can't recall seeing these happen either.

Yes, and yes.

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

6 minutes ago, XaW said:

Yes, and yes.

That's very encouraging to see. That would make you want to put a sub keeper on the bench. I may consider buying FM23 after all!

[XaW]

1 minute ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

That's very encouraging to see. That would make you want to put a sub keeper on the bench. I may consider buying FM23 after all!

To be fair, I haven't seen it happen myself, so I don't think it happens very often, but then again, it doesn't really happen that often in real life either...

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Just now, XaW said:

To be fair, I haven't seen it happen myself, so I don't think it happens very often, but then again, it doesn't really happen that often in real life either...

But the fact that it actually happens is pleasing. Now that you've seen it, the jeopardy of not picking a sub keeper is there. That pressure isn't there in FM22. Could still do with seeing more handballs from outfield players though. I wait to be corrected on that too!

 

 

[XaW]

1 minute ago, \'Appy \'Ammer said:

But the fact that it actually happens is pleasing. Now that you've seen it, the jeopardy of not picking a sub keeper is there. That pressure isn't there in FM22. Could still do with seeing more handballs from outfield players though. I wait to be corrected on that too!

Yeah, clearly! I've seen a few penalties given from handballs, but not many free kicks I think.

[bruntonpasty]

After last night's end-to-end 4-4 draw, FM23 

[deco2609]

new match engine update made fm-23 unplayable, i'm back to fm-22 

[cleaner475]

On 05/03/2023 at 20:42, deco2609 said:

new match engine update made fm-23 unplayable, i'm back to fm-22 

Same