Final: Argentina vs France, 3PM GMT, Lusail Iconic Stadium

[JD nawrat]

4 hours ago, SouthCoastRed said:

If you’d have stayed it would have been **** Jonah

Do you think my name is Jonah

[Rafalution]

5 hours ago, Lucas said:

I'm not so sure that point is all that unreasonable though. There is just too much, to be on the right side of everything. Dollar to donuts we use things everyday without realizing or knowing what unethical, immoral practices are behind it. 

Don't think it means some people are "*****" though. And to be honest, if that's the attitude towards people who don't toe the line then it's not going to win many supporters to the cause.

The point is unreasonable precisely because, as you say, there is just too much - which means doing what you can and picking your battles and boycotts should still be supported. anyone taking @Rebsposition of 

Quote

Hilarious if anyone didn’t watch this tournament due to political reasons

just comes across as a complete muppet

its a position of 'why ever do anything good if you aren't a perfect human?'. its moronic and condescending. 

 

edit: sometimes i reply to individual posts before getting to the end of them all and then realise there is many more saying the exact same thing i said. oh well. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Rafalution

[VamPook]

 

[The Golden boy]

7 hours ago, CFuller said:

Southgate finally delivers a trophy for England.

How has Modric won Bronze Ball. It's like they picked him just because they know he won't be playing another WC. So many more deserving of that, even on his own team.

[noikeee]

Bronze ball had to have been Griezmann 

[VamPook]

 

[SouthCoastRed]

5 hours ago, JD nawrat said:

Do you think my name is Jonah

No you berk 

A Jonah is someone who jinxes everything 

[SouthCoastRed]

First time John Terry has made me laugh since his penalty

[skybluedave]

Yeah, fair play John

[Tummyowl]

Started watching the game late due to the wife finishing work. Successfully avoided spoilers!

Absolutely loved the match, felt the better team won. Argentina were excellent in my opinion for the majority of the match. France did not turn up. Really loved seeing Messi win a World Cup, I have not seen a better player in my lifetime, or just watching football in general and I am pleased he was able to cap his career with a World Cup.

[GunmaN1905]

I just never understood how can people say penalties are a lottery.

 

[Lucas]

Good to know there's a team worse than us on penalty records though.

[silentwars]

6 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Good to know there's a team worse than us on penalty records though.

Not necessarily worse, they've just had an extra opportunity to add to their loss tally 

[enigmatic]

12 hours ago, kpain16 said:

I know he has a huge role in winning it for them, but it's kinda funny 

 

Stats don't tell the whole story.

[kpain16]

Why have the rest of the tournament then? Just give it to the best guys in the final and don't consider it as "best keeper of the tournament" but the best keeper of the final. The same for other individual awards.

Edited December 19, 2022 by kpain16

[Rob1981]

30 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

I just never understood how can people say penalties are a lottery.

Im not saying you can’t prepare for penalties, but where Italy, England and Netherlands have got 1 win and 3 losses these are pretty small sample sizes

It’s like tossing a coin and getting three heads and one tail and going “I’ve never understood how people can say it’s got two sides”.

[kpain16]

Penalties are definitely not a lottery. Not even close. There is a pretty big element of luck there, but for me it's not decisive.

[skybluedave]

I think most people accept its not a lottery? Feel like it's a dated POV. Even UK pundits have moved away from saying it and they usually most clueless

[GunmaN1905]

Just now, Rob1981 said:

Im not saying you can’t prepare for penalties, but where Italy, England and Netherlands have got 1 win and 3 losses these are pretty small sample sizes

Some shootouts are close, but yesterday's had the most blatantly obvious favorite you could ever see.

I'd say it was easily 80-20% in Argentina's favor.

Martinez being one of the best penalty keepers, Lloris never being known for that.

Then Argentina had three you could say elite takers who actually took penalties for their clubs, with Montiel being the only random one. And there was Lautaro waiting if needed. While he was completely out of form this tournament, he already buried the final one against Netherlands with confidence.

On the other side, you had Mbappe and a bunch of kids.

It can be a coin toss like it was in 2006 when we saw 8 textbook penalties and one which hit the bar and went down on the goal line, but it can't be a coin toss in most shootouts.

20 year old kid going first for Brazil and then CB taking the fourth one isn't lottery.

Spain missing three penalties because they had no good takers isn't lottery.

Sending VvD to go first who's probably never taken one in his career isn't lottery.

Having Saka take the deciding penalty while the likes of Grealish hide away isn't lottery.

You can be unlucky like Trezeguet was in 2006, but most shootouts are lost because of poor penalties which either miss the target completely or are easily saved by a goalkeeper.

I don't recall many shootout saves where goalkeepers stopped shots going directly into the corner, it was all about poor shots.

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, kpain16 said:

Why have the rest of the tournament then? Just give it to the best guys in the final and don't consider it as "best keeper of the tournament" but the best keeper of the final. The same for other individual awards.

If we're viewing it over the whole tournament, Livakovic gave away a penalty in Croatia's exit and his non shootout saves weren't extraordinary in either skill or number

Don't think there's anything weird about picking the guy that won two shootouts and an absolute worldie last minute save to win the tournament but didn't do much otherwise over the guy that won two shootouts, gave away a penalty and didn't win the tournament. Both of them can be very happy at the defences and midfields in front of them for giving them a chance to star at penalties.

[Rob1981]

Just now, skybluedave said:

I think most people accept its not a lottery?

It’s not, but it’s really lazy to say Argentina have a 86% success rate and Italy have a 25% success rate, therefore Argentina must have done something right every time and Italy must be doing something wrong.

You’re comparing a handful of shootouts spread over a period of 30+ years, with different players and different managers and different amounts of preparation. Also different contexts in terms of how the preceding 120 minutes have gone.

Instead of looking by country, you might find more of a pattern if you looked at which teams had more club-level penalty takers to pick from at the time, or who had the keeper with the better penalty save ratio, or which teams went first, or which teams had the momentum because they had come from behind in normal play or something.

In the whole of WC history there have still only been about 30-35 shootouts altogether so it’s a tiny sample size to look at either way.

[kpain16]

1 minute ago, enigmatic said:

If we're viewing it over the whole tournament, Livakovic gave away a penalty in Croatia's exit and his non shootout saves weren't extraordinary in either skill or number

Don't think there's anything weird about picking the guy that won two shootouts and an absolute worldie last minute save to win the tournament but didn't do much otherwise over the guy that won two shootouts, gave away a penalty and didn't win the tournament. Both of them can be very happy at the defences and midfields in front of them for giving them a chance to star at penalties.

Have you seen Martinez' stats? The difference between him and Livaković was huge. HUGE.

If you take out penalty saves and that one incredible save, he was absolutely nothing special on the entire tournament. He won it because of this final. They for sure would not have given it to him. Livaković kept Croatia in the game in basically every game. He alone won it against Brazil. Had 11 saves, no one had that since 2014 WC.

[TalkSport]

8 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

 

You can be unlucky like Trezeguet was in 2006, but most shootouts are lost because of poor penalties which either miss the target completely or are easily saved by a goalkeeper.

 

Every penalty is poor if keeper saves it.

Dybala and Paredes pens were poor, but went in so good.

[GunmaN1905]

3 minutes ago, pearcey_90 said:

Every penalty is poor if keeper saves it.

Dybala and Paredes pens were poor, but went in so good.

My bad, should've expressed better.

I fully agree that a lot of penalties scored are poor.

For example, Messi tricking Lloris isn't poor, but Dybala just going for the middle without tricks is poor.

Messi's penalty in the semi-final isn't poor, because you can't save that, even if you know the exacty spot the ball is going.

11 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

It’s not, but it’s really lazy to say Argentina have a 86% success rate and Italy have a 25% success rate, therefore Argentina must have done something right every time and Italy must be doing something wrong.

Well, if you're 6-1 and your only loss is against a team that's 4-0, then they're obviously doing something right.

Quote

You’re comparing a handful of shootouts spread over a period of 30+ years, with different players and different managers and different amounts of preparation. Also different contexts in terms of how the preceding 120 minutes have gone.

They won two penalty shootouts this tournament in matches they were a way better team and should've easily closed it out before ET. Can't get any worse than that.

Croatia had one of the most heartbreaking losses in 2008, with definition of heads gone shooutout against Turkey and went 4-0 since.

Different manager, most takers, but the preparation was completely different.

Quote

Instead of looking by country, you might find more of a pattern if you looked at which teams had more club-level penalty takers to pick from at the time, or who had the keeper with the better penalty save ratio, or which teams went first, or which teams had the momentum because they had come from behind in normal play or something.

In the whole of WC history there have still only been about 30-35 shootouts altogether so it’s a tiny sample size to look at either way.

I already said that some shootouts were a coin toss, but most in recent times weren't.

At this World Cup, not a single shootout was close except for maybe Brazil-Croatia, but Croatia had the lead since the first shot.

They were all really one-sided and none were a coin toss.

[Wolf_pd]

15 hours ago, Rebs said:

Still on a high after watching today. I bet it's amazing in Argentina right now.

Argentinian colleague (living in Amsterdam) looks like he is going to be sick soon this morning in a video meeting  I would have taken the day off if I were him.

[Wolf_pd]

48 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Im not saying you can’t prepare for penalties, but where Italy, England and Netherlands have got 1 win and 3 losses these are pretty small sample sizes

While not the WC, The Netherlands also managed to lose on penalties at EC92, 96, 00 and won on penalties against Sweden in 04 (shock....), Yes, we are just as crap at penalties at EC's too!

[VamPook]

VvD never taking one in his career 

 

[enigmatic]

58 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Some shootouts are close, but yesterday's had the most blatantly obvious favorite you could ever see.

I'd say it was easily 80-20% in Argentina's favor.

Martinez being one of the best penalty keepers, Lloris never being known for that.

Then Argentina had three you could say elite takers who actually took penalties for their clubs, with Montiel being the only random one. And there was Lautaro waiting if needed. While he was completely out of form this tournament, he already buried the final one against Netherlands with confidence.

On the other side, you had Mbappe and a bunch of kids.

It can be a coin toss like it was in 2006 when we saw 8 textbook penalties and one which hit the bar and went down on the goal line, but it can't be a coin toss in most shootouts.

20 year old kid going first for Brazil and then CB taking the fourth one isn't lottery.

Spain missing three penalties because they had no good takers isn't lottery.

Sending VvD to go first who's probably never taken one in his career isn't lottery.

Having Saka take the deciding penalty while the likes of Grealish hide away isn't lottery.

You can be unlucky like Trezeguet was in 2006, but most shootouts are lost because of poor penalties which either miss the target completely or are easily saved by a goalkeeper.

I don't recall many shootout saves where goalkeepers stopped shots going directly into the corner, it was all about poor shots.

We know if Argentina missed their penalties you'd be explaining it wasn't a lottery because Argentina's performance had 'bottling' written all over it    

Hakimi who scored that outrageously cool Panenka was described by his club coach as "so bad at penalties everyone else would have to die before he took one" whilst Soler who missed in the same shootout is a penalty specialist

Saka had already taken and scored more penalties in professional football than Grealish, Rashford was an excellent penalty taker and Sancho a good one. Jorginho, probably the best taker in the shootout also missed, as did regular taker Belotti. But Harry ****ing Maguire scored. 

There's obviously some skill element especially to the goalkeeping, and a bit of additional odd-shifting based on players' mental state but the elite penalty takers generally miss one in five penalties, and the genuinely rubbish ones score most of theirs

More to the point penalties often have no correspondence whatsoever to which side played best in the match or has the best allround footballers which is what people actually mean when they talk about "lottery"

 

51 minutes ago, kpain16 said:

Have you seen Martinez' stats? The difference between him and Livaković was huge. HUGE.

If you take out penalty saves and that one incredible save, he was absolutely nothing special on the entire tournament. He won it because of this final. They for sure would not have given it to him. Livaković kept Croatia in the game in basically every game. He alone won it against Brazil. Had 11 saves, no one had that since 2014 WC.

Yes, I've seen the stats. Also most of the shots in question. Livakovic had a very good game against Brazil, another good shootout against some rather poor penalties, a rather less good game when got knocked out in part due to his mistake and some quiet games (notwithstanding Lukaku's nightmare). Obviously he's going to be happy with his tournament, but I'm not sure that combination trumps pulling off the save of the tournament to win it and having the same number of shootout wins against better penalties

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by enigmatic

[GunmaN1905]

7 minutes ago, VamPook said:

VvD never taking one in his career 

He literally doesn't have a single penalty on the record, excluding shootouts. Educate yourself.

But what else to expect from someone who doesn't even watch football, I bet you're just refreshing for memes while "watching" Liverpool matches.

2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

We know if Argentina missed their penalties you'd be explaining it wasn't a lottery because Argentina's performance had 'bottling' written all over it   

Too bad I wrote it's going to be one-sided before the shootout even started.

Quote

 

Hakimi who scored that outrageously cool Panenka was described by his club coach as "so bad at penalties everyone else would have to die before he took one" whilst Soler who missed in the same shootout is a penalty specialist

Saka had already taken and scored more penalties in professional football than Grealish, Rashford was an excellent penalty taker and Sancho a good one. Jorginho, probably the best taker in the shootout also missed, as did regular taker Belotti. But Harry ****ing Maguire scored. 

There's obviously some skill element especially to the goalkeeping, but the elite penalty takers generally miss one in five penalties, and the genuinely rubbish ones score most of theirs

 

Obviously bad takers can score and good ones can miss, but way too many shootouts are lost because teams have "it's a lottery" mentality.

Hakimi did score a panenka, but it was over already, Spain missed three, no coming back from that.

Quote

More to the point penalties often have no correspondence whatsoever to which side played best in the match or has the best allround footballers which is what people actually mean when they talk about "lottery"

Most people actually think it's a lottery because even the best takers can miss.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

It's Gunman's traditional post final meltdown :*)

[ArsenalFan7]

Golden glove award is biased towards winners, the only non-winners in the last 20 years have been Courtois and Kahn.

The bookmakers actually had Bono as favourite before the last two games and he might have been a rightful winner had he had a better 3rd place game. I think him and Livakovic had great tournaments but Bono's achievements stood out more.

Hard to take it away from Martinez after his final display though, it is certainly the most clutch save I have ever seen and then to win the World Cup for his side in a penalty shootout shortly after, he had every right to win. Bloke is a bit of a bellend though fwiw.

Edited December 19, 2022 by ArsenalFan7

[Rob1981]

39 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

At this World Cup, not a single shootout was close except for maybe Brazil-Croatia, but Croatia had the lead since the first shot.

They were all really one-sided and none were a coin toss.

Sorry, Brazil-Croatia was “maybe close”, but Argentina-France was one-sided? Even though both penalty shootouts finished 4-2?

Glad we cleared that up.

[InigoPatinkin]

Goalkeepers in shootouts are the real difference makers, if both goalkeepers are pretty poor at saving penalties then it pretty much is a lottery because pressure makes people make mistakes. As soon as one of the keepers is a good penalty saver the pressure on one team ramps right up and not only does having a keeper more likely to save one come into play, but the extra pressure causes worse and worse penalties. 

If Rashford's penalty in the Euros is a couple of inches to the right instead of hitting the post then the pressure on Saka and Sancho is way less and their chances of scoring go right up. 

[GunmaN1905]

1 minute ago, Rob1981 said:

Sorry, Brazil-Croatia was “maybe close”, but Argentina-France was one-sided? Even though both penalty shootouts finished 4-2?

Glad we cleared that up.

I don't think either was close, maybe some people did.

When Marquinhos stepped up to take the shot, both him and Neymar (assuming he was 5th) had to score, with Perišić missing the final one for Croatia. Chances of Brazil getting out of that were really low.

Yesterday after 3 series France needed to score two and Argentina to miss two, which was never happening.

[VamPook]

11 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

But what else to expect from someone who doesn't even watch football, I bet you're just refreshing for memes while "watching" Liverpool matches.

Hahahahahahahahaahhaaaaaaaaaa

[Chase Failey]

Nothing quite like an Aussie pep talk 

[Astafjevs]

Agree that goalkeepers are a big factor. They don't really have any pressure on them either which helps loads. Doesn't ever get talked about in shootout buildups - you'd think TV pundits or the production teams would have save ratios ready because there's goalkeepers out there who are at either extreme and who are impacting shootouts (positively or negatively). I feel like I rarely see this info or hear this discussion.

[ArsenalFan7]

Maignan is a bit of a penalty specialist isn't he? Would have been great if France had him available to bring on, Lloris has zero presence.

[Rafalution]

1 hour ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Some shootouts are close, but yesterday's had the most blatantly obvious favorite you could ever see.

It can be a coin toss like it was in 2006 when we saw 8 textbook penalties and one which hit the bar and went down on the goal line, but it can't be a coin toss in most shootouts.

Sending VvD to go first who's probably never taken one in his career isn't lottery.

 

 

41 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

He literally doesn't have a single penalty on the record, excluding shootouts. Educate yourself.

 

So in a post talking about shootouts you say VvD has probably never taken one in his life and then when it's pointed out he's taken them in shootouts you just exclude the exact type of penalties that are relevant? And then tell someone else to educate themselves? And you do this without being a parody account?

40 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

It's Gunman's traditional post final meltdown :*)

It's pure clockwork. 

[GunmaN1905]

12 minutes ago, Rafalution said:

So in a post talking about shootouts you say VvD has probably never taken one in his life and then when it's pointed out he's taken them in shootouts you just exclude the exact type of penalties that are relevant? And then tell someone else to educate themselves? And you do this without being a parody account?

Read the entire discussion, I was literally talking about how Argentina had first three takers who regularly took penalties for their clubs and then mentioned how losers either sent kids or players who never took penalties regularly. Mostly defenders.

Yeah, Mickey Mouse Cup penalties are irrelevant. Every professional at top level will score most of them in training, it's about taking penalties under pressure. If you go with all those useless cups and charity shield English clubs play, every player took a penalty at some point.

What's it with Liverpool to have the by far the biggest set of clowns? If I didn't mention VvD, none of you would've said anything. But god forbid anyone speaks the name of that who hasn't been dribbled past.

Actually, why am I even replying to you? I've said my takes before the tournament, most were correct. I've predicted the shootouts before they happened, correct again.

12 minutes ago, ArsenalFan7 said:

Maignan is a bit of a penalty specialist isn't he? Would have been great if France had him available to bring on, Lloris has zero presence.

Idk about specialist, but he's a class above Lloris and was one of the best goalkeepers in the world last season. Lloris elevated his game for the tournament, which was a bit unexpected, but Maignan is a class above and would've been first choice if healthy.

Edited December 19, 2022 by GunmaN1905

[buffalo]

not too sure if Deschamps would be able to actually drop Lloris, after all the years they have together at the national team

easier said than done

which is why it's best after some time to part with a head coach/manager

 

[VamPook]

17 minutes ago, Rafalution said:

 

So in a post talking about shootouts you say VvD has probably never taken one in his life and then when it's pointed out he's taken them in shootouts you just exclude the exact type of penalties that are relevant? And then tell someone else to educate themselves? And you do this without being a parody account?

It's pure clockwork. 

I mean, it's practically from the "bottlers" meme maker self proclaimed football expert

[GunmaN1905]

5 minutes ago, VamPook said:

I mean, it's practically from the "bottlers" meme maker self proclaimed football expert

Show me three posts of yours that have anything which resembles football knowledge and has accurate predictions based on that knowledge and I'll never post here again.

You're the definition of a clueless tiktoker that half the forum has on ignore.

And you also have 0 sense of humor or irony.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by GunmaN1905

[enigmatic]

Was thinking that calling it a meltdown was a bit harsh, but now he's gone full Elon.  

[The_jagster]

If you keep posting contradictory takes one of them will be correct.

[GunmaN1905]

2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Was thinking that calling it a meltdown was a bit harsh, but now he's gone full Elon.  

No, I just really dislike that guy, stereotypical representative of current generation that's just fully sucked into social media and terrible memes with no real knowledge of the thing he's following.

3 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

If you keep posting contradictory takes one of them will be correct.

Like which?

Not my fault Liverpool fans can't read.

Once again, here are my predictions for the tournament.

On 04/11/2022 at 20:20, GunmaN1905 said:

National team football will always be different from club football.

Talent doesn't mean much if the system isn't in place to use the talent well.

Argentina being the best example. When they had overwhelming number of great players, they did nothing.

Now they have just enough and with the system in place, they look better than ever.

And there is obviously Messi. He's been on a decline for a couple of years now, but if you ask me, this is the only tournament he's cared about ever since 2018. He knows it's his last chance and I fully expect him to be on top of his game. Now or never. And when he's on top of his games, he's still by far the best player in the world. Also, Lautaro and Di Maria in current system work better with him than any of the previous strikers they had.

France has too many question marks because of injures and winning two in a row just doesn't happen.

Portugal and England should be top4 with Argentina and Brazil, but they've got horrible coaches who can't use the talent they have at their disposal.

Brazil lacks a clinical striker.

Argentina - completey spot on except for Lautaro playing the worst month of football in his life, but Alvarez more than made up for it.

France - Better than my prediction, but only because noone except Argentina had the courage to attack them. And injuries obviously did a number on them.

Brazil - missed half a dozen sitters against Croatia, which cost them the semi-final.

Portugal and England both got eliminated because of turgid coaches who were afraid to take initiative until they went a goal down.

Obviously not perfect, but I think I got the state of things pretty well.

 

Everyone has bad takes, even terrible ones here and there, but whenever I actually post something in serious tone, I try to back it up. You see football legends be completely clueless on TV with horrible takes all the time, so I'd say I'm doing pretty well.

And yeah, sometimes my refusal to admit I was wrong goes over the top, but it's just hillarious how a mob of Liverpool fans came in and out of the entire discussion and several shootouts I mentioned clinged onto the point of VvD being a poor penalty taker, when he has a couple of Mickey Mouse shootouts behind him at the age of 32. They didn't bother replying anything else, just how VvD took a penalty in a cup shootout. And then the first important one he took in his career ends up being dreadful, what a surprise.

My only regret is for removing that annoying kid VamPook from the ignore list, I give people too many chances. Just a spambot of horrible memes and zero football takes, regardless if they're good or bad. No wonder half the forum has him on ignore.

Whatever, the tournament is over, I'm done here.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

World Cup Final 5-Min Ratings Peaks:

2022: Argentina v France
BBC1: 14.9m
ITV: 4.4m
Total: 19.3m
Ratio: 3.4 to 1

2018: France v Croatia
BBC1: 10.3m, ITV1: 3.5m
Total: 13.8m
Ratio: 2.9 to 1

2014: Germany v Argentina
BBC1: 16.7m, ITV1: 4.0m
Total: 20.7m
Ratio: 4.2 to 1

2010: Netherlands v Spain
BBC1: 17.9m, ITV1: 3.8m
Total: 21.7m
Ratio: 4.7 to 1

2006: France v Italy
BBC1: 17.0m, ITV1: 3.5m
Total: 20.5m
Ratio: 4.9 to 1

2002: Brazil v Germany
BBC1: 11.6m, ITV: 2.6m
Total: 14.1m
Ratio: 4.5 to 1

[kopsy101]

17 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

No, I just really dislike that guy, stereotypical representative of current generation that's just fully sucked into social media and terrible memes with no real knowledge of the thing he's following.

Like which?

Not my fault Liverpool fans can't read.

Once again, here are my predictions for the tournament.

Argentina - completey spot on except for Lautaro playing the worst month of football in his life, but Alvarez more than made up for it.

France - Better than my prediction, but only because noone except Argentina had the courage to attack them. And injuries obviously did a number on them.

Brazil - missed half a dozen sitters against Croatia, which cost them the semi-final.

Portugal and England both got eliminated because of turgid coaches who were afraid to take initiative until they went a goal down.

Obviously not perfect, but I think I got the state of things pretty well.

 

Everyone has bad takes, even terrible ones here and there, but whenever I actually post something in serious tone, I try to back it up. You see football legends be completely clueless on TV with horrible takes all the time, so I'd say I'm doing pretty well.

And yeah, sometimes my refusal to admit I was wrong goes over the top, but it's just hillarious how a mob of Liverpool fans came in and out of the entire discussion and several shootouts I mentioned clinged onto the point of VvD being a poor penalty taker, when he has a couple of Mickey Mouse shootouts behind him at the age of 32. They didn't bother replying anything else, just how VvD took a penalty in a cup shootout. And then the first important one he took in his career ends up being dreadful, what a surprise.

My only regret is for removing that annoying kid VamPook from the ignore list, I give people too many chances. Just a spambot of horrible memes and zero football takes, regardless if they're good or bad. No wonder half the forum has him on ignore.

Whatever, the tournament is over, I'm done here.

You're an absolute roaster with a rather large opinion of yourself. What a narcissistic, condescending post. 

God, please give me more analysis on your own posts and how patient you are with people. 

[VamPook]

It is rather amusing how angry Gunman is over nothing , to the point of throwing petty personal insults and calling other users clowns

Didn't realise how patriotic he is to still be so bitter about Croatia being knocked out by a clearly superior team with the superior manager, when he's basically been whining about the Croatia manager from god knows how many years ago

Should be rather expected already since the Croatia manager is apparently so crap, yet still so angry after this number of days 

[The_jagster]

I think I like everything about BBC more except their co-commentators. That's not a McCoist fanboy thing, I just think they are all so bland. ITV didn't even have Emma Hayes this time, but I was even thinking "at least Lawro moaning would be something approaching an opinion".